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5 rules for (CCW) Concealed Carry Weapon
http://www.jpfo.org/unpopularsp-unknown-5rules.htm ^ | unknown | unknown

Posted on 06/28/2002 9:13:48 AM PDT by CHICAGOFARMER

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To: *bang_list
Bump to the BANG LIST
51 posted on 06/28/2002 12:40:30 PM PDT by xsrdx
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To: hopespringseternal
This may be the law in some places, but it is BS. Most men are fully capable of killing each other unarmed, and some are no doubt sitting in prison and cemetaries because they found that out the hard way.

People who think this way have seen too many movies.

Agreed - remember the hockey-dad fatality. Had hockey fight VIC been packing, and shot his eventual murderer, he would have likely been sent to the graybar hotel for an extended stay.

52 posted on 06/28/2002 12:53:30 PM PDT by xsrdx
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To: glc1173@aol.com
I think I'd make Rule #1: Your weapon must be loaded!
53 posted on 06/28/2002 12:54:03 PM PDT by Redbob
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To: xsrdx
"Had hockey fight VIC been packing, and shot his eventual murderer, he would have likely been sent to the graybar hotel for an extended stay."

Which probably would have been better than the extended "dirt nap" that he is taking now. "Better tried by 12 than carried by 6!"

54 posted on 06/28/2002 1:03:57 PM PDT by cmak9
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To: xsrdx
Agreed - remember the hockey-dad fatality. Had hockey fight VIC been packing, and shot his eventual murderer, he would have likely been sent to the graybar hotel for an extended stay. Many issues did not come out the the public the victim was had a long criminal record including assault.

You bring up an interesting point. The exception.

For every good principle their is an exception.

When it comes to life and death, never take a knife to a gunfight. Or perhaps the first branishment the fight would have never started. Remember, Citizens who carry represent themselves seven times less likely to be involved in all types of crimes.

Here are the actual figures for TEXAS CCW. You are safer standing next to a CCW carrier that the average citizen in the United States.


http://www.freerepublic.com/fo cus/news/706458/posts

Decline of the Violence Policy Center

end


55 posted on 06/28/2002 1:05:57 PM PDT by CHICAGOFARMER
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To: nuancey
It occured to me recently that most small women (like myself) almost always carry a small weapon for obvious reasons. While my baby Glock is a great technician, I'm thinking a piece along the lines of Felicity Shagwell's would actually be a much better deterrent. And, the laws being what they are, I'm more interested in deterring than shooting.

Concealment would be the only problem.

BTW, can anyone tell me what that shiny revolver Miss Shagwell lugged -is?

It appears to be a 4-inch barrelled revolver, possibly a Smith and Wesson Combat Masterpiece or Combat Magnum- it's a bit difficult to tell if it's nickel-plated or stainless, and it might even be one of the larger magnum revolvers built on the larger *N* frame, such as *Dirty Harry's* well-known Model 29 .44 magnum, better suited to an Eastwood-sized San Francisco cop that to Ms. Graham's more compact but curvier bod. A pre-sellout used S&W M66 stainless .357 would seem a close starting point, but I'd have to review the movie to tell for certain- my glasses were broken the night I saw the film with friends, so I missed a detail here and there.

You're wrong about at least some smaller-stature women in chosing hardware from much of what I've seen, however. The most common reason for going to smaller handguns seems to be in hopes of finding a handgun well-suited to the smaller and daintier female hand, but that's not always the case. My own female partner through the days when Ms Felicity would have been at it was fond of the 9mm Walther P.38 military service pistol and noted that it was not only as easy to carry in her purse as a smaller shootin' iron, but was easier to find in a hurry amidst all the other jun- necessities she kept in there. Likewise the wife of an Illinois State Cop pal not only herself carried a duplicate of her hubby's 9mm M39 service pistol, but carried 4 extra magazines for the two of them in the external pockets on her purse's outside. And I lost a fine old well-worn .45 Colt Combat Commander as a gift to a former co-worker upon her enlistment and subsequent commissioning as an officer and rotary-wing pilot and felt less bad about the loss after later hearing from her that it was the handgun she carried during her tour during the Gulf War. Not only can women get away with larger hardware carried aboard the steamer trunks that some use for purses, but since shot placement is not necessarily as critical with the more serious artillery, many concerns about less-than-perfect shot grouping become less worrisome so long as the target is at least generally centerpunched.

But a couple of other Felicity carry pieces are possible, and were I in her platform shoes, I can think of a couple that would work, though maybe not *pure* 1960s vintage.

So, am I a groovy boy?

-archy-/-


56 posted on 06/28/2002 1:31:12 PM PDT by archy
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To: archy
Groovy post Baby! You're correct about some women carrying the big pieces, it's just that all the female carriers I know tend to carry the smaller because none of us carry purses anymore. We're a bunch of "dainties" that had our purses snatched at some time.

Great pics. Thanks! But I hope you got your glasses fixed by now because the movie is a lot of fun.
57 posted on 06/28/2002 1:49:10 PM PDT by nuancey
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To: Squantos
Thanks for the ping to this refresher course.

It is also not usually a very good idea to let too many people know that you carry a gun.

When I started to CCW, "someone" gave me this bit of advice via private FReepmail. Up to that point, I had never considered this aspect of CCW. It has probably saved me a lot of hassles with former anti-gun co-workers. Most of them had already branded me as the resident right-wing kook, and I didn't need to give them anymore ammo...

Thanks.

58 posted on 06/28/2002 2:03:04 PM PDT by pocat
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To: pocat
To pocat

To CCW is for your protection. You are not a law enforcement officer. It is best to smile and act normal but be prepared.

Good point.
59 posted on 06/28/2002 3:03:45 PM PDT by CHICAGOFARMER
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To: CHICAGOFARMER
Depending on his or her feelings about firearms, this person might maliciously embellish their story in an attempt to have your gun seized by police or in order to get you arrested.

Something similar happened to an acquaintance of my family. He was involved in a minor fender bender with someone angry and not very tightly wrapped. The acquaintance had a concealed hangun on him at the time and at some point in the incident the other person noticed the firearm (I think with all the confusion and fuss, the man's shirt rode up for a moment over the revolver grip protruding from the IWB holster).

So the angry motorist decided to tell the cops he was "threatened with a gun" by this guy. It was ugly for awhile, but fortunately it eventually got smoothed over (after a period of some uncertain weeks). Fortunately, there are usually witnesses to fender benders. If this had occurred in a situation without corroborating witnesses, it could easily have resulted in arrest and possible conviction.

Moral: you shouldn't HAVE to hide your gun in an ideal society, but it ain't an ideal society. There are just too many total butt holes out there just looking to make your life a living hell.

60 posted on 06/28/2002 3:38:38 PM PDT by RogueIsland
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To: glc1173@aol.com
So avoid all those new tiny .32 semis.

I cant think of anyone, EVER!, who was shot 3 times in the chest, and 3 times in the face, with a Beretta Tomcat shooting winchester silvertips that would voluntar to be shot again by a .32.

Would YOU?, not be afraid of someone who is pointing a Beretta Tomcat at your face??

Do you have ANY statistics on how many criminals were undeterred after being shot 6 times with .32 winchester silvertips?

61 posted on 06/28/2002 3:39:16 PM PDT by waterstraat
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To: RogueIsland
RogueIsland said

The acquaintance had a concealed hangun on him at the time and at some point in the incident the other person noticed the firearm (I think with all the confusion and fuss, the man's shirt rode up for a moment over the revolver grip protruding from the IWB holster).

So the angry motorist decided to tell the cops he was "threatened with a gun" by this guy.

Chicagofarmer said

Yep you are right. Cry, scream, lie, false statements is SOP with liberals and non gun society.

Never Never reveal your weapon but errors occur. Definately Witnesses are your friends, treat them right.


62 posted on 06/28/2002 5:28:57 PM PDT by CHICAGOFARMER
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To: All
"YOUR CONCEALED WEAPON IS FOR PROTECTION OF LIFE ONLY."

"KNOW EXACTLY WHEN YOU CAN USE YOUR WEAPON."

"IF YOU CAN RUN AWAY SAFELY- RUN!"

"DISPLAY YOUR WEAPON, GO TO JAIL."

"DON'T LET YOUR EMOTIONS GET THE BEST OF YOU." "YOUR CONCEALED WEAPON IS FOR PROTECTION OF LIFE ONLY."

Although these are very good rules to live by for concealed carry in the heat of the moment no one person can know how she or he will act at the time of engagment if your going to conceal carry follow these rules but above all of them THINK BEFORE YOU ACT

63 posted on 06/28/2002 5:41:28 PM PDT by ATOMIC_PUNK
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To: CHICAGOFARMER
bump
64 posted on 06/28/2002 7:14:54 PM PDT by CHICAGOFARMER
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To: pocat
You wrote: It has probably saved me a lot of hassles with former anti-gun co-workers. Most of them had already branded me as the resident right-wing kook, and I didn't need to give them anymore ammo...

Thank you for the tip! My family thinks I am their "resident right-wing kook" and are freaked out by me. I have had many prolonged and frustrating 2nd Amendment/RTKBA discussions with them and they still refuse to even try to remotely understand the facts. So, I give up. I know now to save myself from potential hassles with co-workers. What is that line about beating dead horses?

65 posted on 06/28/2002 9:23:38 PM PDT by Rollee
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To: ATOMIC_PUNK
You said

Although these are very good rules to live by for concealed carry in the heat of the moment no one person can know how she or he will act at the time of engagment if your going to conceal carry follow these rules but above all of them THINK BEFORE YOU ACT

I say

That is right. But if you are so fearful for your life then Item A B and C are in place. If you can't think and handle responsibility then you should leave your self defense at home. Police officer train for the moment, and so should you. If you have not, then you are more dangerous than someone who trains regularly.

chicagofarmer

66 posted on 06/29/2002 6:41:57 AM PDT by CHICAGOFARMER
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To: Rollee
Notice I said "former" co-workers. The place I work at now is owned and run by a right-wing conservative family. Guns are bought, sold and traded freely on company property. It's a normal part of the environment (which it should be everywhere). As I type this, I'm gearing up for a paintball war tomorrow at work. This is one of the reasons I took this job.

Yes, leave the dead horse alone. My parents and I don't even speak now over different issues. One of them is my "rebellious" attitude against "government authority." They believe that everyone should submit to every government whim without question. Save yourself and those you love closest to you and forget about the rest. Often, we assume that everyone shares the same philosophies as us because ours is based on LOGIC and common sense. Sadly, that's not always the case.

67 posted on 06/29/2002 7:50:24 AM PDT by pocat
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To: CHICAGOFARMER
A note about ammunition:
Many Texas CCP instructors advise that "soft-point" or hollow-point shells be kept in your weapon, especially for home defense/protection.
If you use a solid projectile, it has the potential to pass through an intruder and do some damage/injury to a neighbor or passer-by. Judges and juries just may be screwy enough to find you liable for such collateral damage, even though your original decision to use lethal force was completely justified.
As goofy as it may seem, I have only hollow-point ammo for all my firearms.
TGR, TX CCP
68 posted on 06/29/2002 8:14:00 AM PDT by TheGrimReaper
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To: TheGrimReaper
To GrimReaper

Many Texas CCP instructors advise that "soft-point" or hollow-point shells be kept in your weapon, especially for home defense/protection.
If you use a solid projectile, it has the potential to pass through an intruder and do some damage/injury to a neighbor or passer-by. Judges and juries just may be screwy enough to find you liable for such collateral damage, even though your original decision to use lethal force was completely justified.

Chicagofaremer says.

Yep. I will probably never never fire my weapon for self defense. I am working with a company that sells equipment to police departments. Long story short, our conversation has come around to using bean bags in 12 guage shotguns. It will put a man down. It provides protection to family and neighbors and self. I am seriously considering a home 12 guage defense.

For the road soft points are the choice.


69 posted on 06/29/2002 11:39:10 AM PDT by CHICAGOFARMER
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To: CHICAGOFARMER
DISPLAY YOUR WEAPON, GO TO JAIL

Not true in the great State of North Carolina. Our permits are for CONCEALED weapons. You need no permit to wear a weapon openly. The only thing approaching this in North Carolina is that DRAWING, or UNCONCEALING a weapon in the presence of a LEO unless by his/her request should be done carefully. Diplaying a weapon is actually not uncommon in some places here. HOLDING a weapon in threatening way is another story.

Displaying an NRA sticker is currently legal, but with the bent toward pin-headed Judges these days who knows if this will be lumped in at some future date...
70 posted on 06/29/2002 11:58:55 AM PDT by safisoft
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To: pocat
I am happy for the fortunate change in your employment. I am starting a new career (real estate) where I can work as an indepent contractor. The independence is the best part of the job. Your advice about the dead horse is good. Good luck to you!!
71 posted on 06/29/2002 4:06:20 PM PDT by Rollee
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To: CHICAGOFARMER
bump
72 posted on 06/29/2002 7:09:20 PM PDT by Centurion2000
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To: CHICAGOFARMER
It is surprising this appears on the JPFO website, I will research this.

The mentality expressed in these rules reflect the slow slide into barbarism that has brought both England and Australia among others to their current low estate.

The emphasis on the "duty to retreat" and the notion guns are intrinsically dangerous as inanimate objects and thus must be carefully concealed up to and including avoidance of fanny packs and vests reflects a desire on the part of the writer to inculcate fear and hesitation in the mind of the law abiding gunowner rather than focus on the savage violence criminals visit on the unsuspecting and unprepared.

Within living memory concealed weapons were considered the mark of the dishonest and criminal and many states and regions both encouraged and required "open carry" or visible display of weapons by the owner.

In modern times concealed carry has two primary advantages:

1.It foils many attempts by muggers and thugs to disarm their victims with a pre-emptive assault.

2. It creates the proper atmosphere of uncertainty in potential assailants as they are unable to easily discern who is armed and who is unarmed.

The only standard by which a thoroughly civilized society should measure gunownership is the standard upheld by the tiny state of Vermont where guns are carried, stored, transported,transfered or handled without penalty up until they are used in a criminal act at which point the state enacts severe penalties against the perpetrator.

In real life assaults it is frequently impossible to expeditiously determine the level of threat offered by a potential assailant.

In fact, Professor John Lott has documented between 1-2 MILLION ASSAULTS A YEAR are averted when a firearm is displayed by the potential victim of a crime. No shots are ever fired and no injuries are sustained by either the attacker or attackee.

Politically correct government officials who seek to pad their resumes by charging innocent taxpaying,property owning,law abiding citizens with busywork violations of law should be summarily removed from office and never allowed to work in government for the rest of their lives.

This entire list of rules carries with it the embedded premise that the "gun control state of mind is good" and Sovereign Citizens in a Representative Constitutional Republic are bad.

This embedded premise should not be endorsed,approved or encouraged.

Best regards,

73 posted on 06/29/2002 8:01:23 PM PDT by Copernicus
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To: safisoft
to safisoft

Not true in the great State of North Carolina. Our permits are for CONCEALED weapons. You need no permit to wear a weapon openly. The only thing approaching this in North Carolina is that DRAWING, or UNCONCEALING a weapon in the presence of a LEO unless by his/her request should be done carefully. Diplaying a weapon is actually not uncommon in some places here. HOLDING a weapon in threatening way is another story.

Displaying an NRA sticker is currently legal, but with the bent toward pin-headed Judges these days who knows if this will be lumped in at some future date...

chicagofarmer says

Isn't the state of NC just great for CCW. We here in IL just have the safe neighborhood act. Carry unloaded in a case. That means a fanny pack and unloaded but loaded clip.

We could use your help anytime you see Mayor Daley of Chicago and is crew rant about disarming citizens.

Thanks for hte help

chicagofarmer

74 posted on 06/30/2002 5:49:35 PM PDT by CHICAGOFARMER
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To: Copernicus
You said

Politically correct government officials who seek to pad their resumes by charging innocent taxpaying,property owning,law abiding citizens with busywork violations of law should be summarily removed from office and never allowed to work in government for the rest of their lives.

This entire list of rules carries with it the embedded premise that the "gun control state of mind is good" and Sovereign Citizens in a Representative Constitutional Republic are bad.

This embedded premise should not be endorsed,approved or encouraged.

Best regards,

Chicagofarmer says thank you for your comments.


75 posted on 06/30/2002 5:51:24 PM PDT by CHICAGOFARMER
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To: CHICAGOFARMER

Just found this excellent concealed weapon article. thank you.


76 posted on 11/17/2008 9:35:31 PM PST by An American! (Proud To Be An American!)
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To: glc1173@aol.com

Nothing smaller than 9mm


77 posted on 10/18/2013 8:31:35 PM PDT by JusticePiece
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To: JusticePiece

The point is, the bullet must do sufficient damage the first round maybe second, not a full magazine to subdue a bad guy. Your not range shooting, a real encounter needs to be a quick incapaciation.


78 posted on 10/18/2013 8:42:42 PM PDT by JusticePiece
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