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Intelligent Design Is Creationism in a Cheap Tuxedo
Physics Today ^ | July 1, 2002 | Adrian L. Melott

Posted on 07/01/2002 7:25:44 AM PDT by aculeus

My deliberately provocative title is borrowed from Leonard Krishtalka, who directs the Natural History Museum at the University of Kansas. Hired-gun "design theorists" in cheap tuxedos have met with some success in getting close to their target: public science education. I hope to convince you that this threat is worth paying attention to. As I write, intelligent design (ID) is a hot issue in the states of Washington and Ohio (see Physics Today, May 2002, page 31*). Evolutionary biology is ID's primary target, but geology and physics are within its blast zone.

Creationism evolves. As in biological evolution, old forms persist alongside new. After the Scopes "Monkey Trial" of 1925, creationists tried to get public schools to teach biblical accounts of the origin and diversity of life. Various courts ruled the strategy unconstitutional. Next came the invention of "creation science," which was intended to bypass constitutional protections. It, too, was recognized by the courts as religion. Despite adverse court rulings, creationists persist in reapplying these old strategies locally. In many places, the pressure keeps public school biology teachers intimidated and evolution quietly minimized.

However, a new strategy, based on so-called ID theory, is now at the cutting edge of creationism. ID is different from its forebears. It does a better job of disguising its sectarian intent. It is well funded and nationally coordinated. To appeal to a wider range of people, biblical literalism, Earth's age, and other awkward issues are swept under the rug. Indeed, ID obfuscates sufficiently well that some educated people with little background in the relevant science have been taken in by it. Among ID's diverse adherents are engineers, doctors--and even physicists.

ID advocates can't accept the inability of science to deal with supernatural hypotheses, and they see this limitation as a sacrilegious denial of God's work and presence. Desperately in need of affirmation, they invent "theistic science" in which the design of the Creator is manifest. Perhaps because their religious faith is rather weak, they need to bolster their beliefs every way they can--including hijacking science to save souls and prove the existence of God.

William Dembski, a mathematician and philosopher at Baylor University and one of ID's chief advocates, asserts that: " . . . any view of the sciences that leaves Christ out of the picture must be seen as fundamentally deficient."1 Whether or not they agree with Dembski on this point, most Americans hold some form of religious belief. Using what they call the Wedge Strategy,2 ID advocates seek to pry Americans away from "naturalistic science" by forcing them to choose between science and religion. ID advocates know that science will lose. They portray science as we know it as innately antireligious, thereby blurring the distinction between science and how science may be interpreted.

When presenting their views before the public, ID advocates generally disguise their religious intent. In academic venues, they avoid any direct reference to the Designer. They portray ID as merely an exercise in detecting design, citing examples from archaeology, the SETI (search for extraterrestrial intelligence) project, and other enterprises. Cambridge University Press has published one ID book,3 which, the ID advocates repeatedly proclaim, constitutes evidence that their case has real scientific merit. ID creationist publications are nearly absent from refereed journals, and this state of affairs is presented as evidence of censorship.

This censorship, ID advocates argue, justifies the exploitation of public schools and the children in them to circumvent established scientific procedures. In tort law, expert scientific testimony must agree with the consensus of experts in a given field. No such limitation exists with respect to public education. ID advocates can snow the public and school boards with pseudoscientific presentations. As represented by ID advocates, biological evolution is a theory in crisis, fraught with numerous plausible-sounding failures, most of which are recycled from overt creationists. It is "only fair," the ID case continues, to present alternatives so that children can make up their own minds. Yesterday's alternative was "Flood geology." Today's is "design theory."

Fairness, open discussion, and democracy are core American values and often problematic. Unfortunately, journalists routinely present controversies where none exist, or they present political controversies as scientific controversies. Stories on conflicts gain readers, and advertising follows. This bias toward reporting conflicts, along with journalists' inability to evaluate scientific content and their unwillingness to do accuracy checks (with notable exceptions), are among the greatest challenges to the broad public understanding of science.

ID creationism is largely content-free rhetoric. Michael Behe, a biochemist at Lehigh University and an ID proponent, argues that many biochemical and biophysical mechanisms are "irreducibly complex."4 He means that, if partially dismembered, they would not work, so they could not have evolved. This line of argument ignores the large number of biological functions that look irreducibly complex, but for which intermediates have been found. One response to Behe's claims consists of the tedious task of demonstrating functions in a possible evolutionary path to the claimed irreducibly complex state. When presented with these paths, Behe typically ignores them and moves on. I admire the people who are willing to spend the time to put together the detailed refutations.5

The position of an ID creationist can be summarized as: "I can't understand how this complex outcome could have arisen, so it must be a miracle." In an inversion of the usual procedure in science, the null hypothesis is taken to be the thing Dembski, Behe, and their cohorts want to prove, albeit with considerable window-dressing. Dembski classifies all phenomena as resulting from necessity, chance, or design. In ruling out necessity, he means approximately that one could not predict the detailed structures and information we see in biological systems from the laws of physics. His reference to chance is essentially equivalent to the creationist use of one of the red herrings introduced by Fred Hoyle:

A junkyard contains all the bits and pieces of a Boeing 747, dismembered and in disarray. A whirlwind happens to blow through the yard. What is the chance that after its passage a fully assembled 747, ready to fly, will be found standing there?6 Having dispensed with necessity and chance, Dembski concludes that design has been detected on the grounds that nothing else can explain the phenomenon--at least according to him.

Of course, design has no predictive power. ID is not a scientific theory. If we had previously attributed the unexplainable to design, we would still be using Thor's hammer to explain thunder. Nor does ID have any technological applications. It can be fun to ask ID advocates about the practical applications of their work. Evolution has numerous practical technological applications, including vaccine development. ID has none.

As organisms evolve, they become more complex, but evolution doesn't contravene the second law of thermodynamics. Dembski, like his creationist predecessors, misuses thermodynamics. To support the case for ID, he has presented arguments based on a supposed Law of Conservation of Information, an axiomatic law that applies only to closed systems with very restricted assumptions.7 Organisms, of course, are not closed systems.

ID's reach extends beyond biology to physics and cosmology. One interesting discussion concerns the fundamental constants. There is a well-known point of view that our existence depends on a number of constants lying within a narrow range. As one might expect, the religious community has generally viewed this coincidence as evidence in favor of--or at least as a plausibility argument for--their beliefs. The ID creationist community has adopted the fundamental constants as additional evidence for their Designer of Life--apparently not realizing that many fine-tuning arguments are based on physical constants allowing evolution to proceed. Physical cosmology is largely absent from school science standards. Where present, as in Kansas, it is likely to come under ID attack.

I have only scratched the surface here. Don't assume everything is fine in your school system even if it seems free of conflict. Peace may mean that evolution, the core concept of biology, is minimized. No region of the country is immune. Watch out for the guys in tuxedos--they don't have violins in those cases.

Adrian Melott is a professor of physics and astronomy at the University of Kansas in Lawrence. He is also a founding board member of Kansas Citizens for Science.

Letters are encouraged and should be sent to Letters, Physics Today, American Center for Physics, One Physics Ellipse, College Park, MD 20740-3842 or by e-mail to ptletter@aip.org (using your surname as "Subject"). Please include your affiliation, mailing address, and daytime phone number. We reserve the right to edit.

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References 1. W. Dembski, Intelligent Design: The Bridge Between Science & Theology, InterVarsity Press, Downers Grove, Ill. (1999), p. 206. 2. See http://rnaworld.bio.ukans.edu/id-intro/sect3.html. Another source is http://www.sunflower.com/~jkrebs/JCCC/05%20Wedge_edited.html 3. W. Dembski, The Design Inference: Eliminating Chance through Small Probabilities, Cambridge U. Press, New York (1998). For a review by W. Elsberry, see http://inia.cls.org/~welsberr/zgists/wre/papers/dembski7.html. 4. M. Behe, Darwin's Black Box: The Biochemical Challenge to Evolution, Free Press, New York (1996). 5. See http://www.world-of-dawkins.com/catalano/box/behe.htm. See also http://www.cs.colorado.edu/~lindsay/creation/behe.html 6. F. Hoyle, The Intelligent Universe, Holt, Rinehart, and Winston, New York (1983), p. 18. 7. W. Dembski, No Free Lunch: Why Specified Complexity Cannot Be Purchased without Intelligence, Rowman & Littlefield, Lanham, Md. (2002).


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Government
KEYWORDS: crevolist
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1 posted on 07/01/2002 7:25:44 AM PDT by aculeus
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To: aculeus
Changing meaning-reality(creation)...

via your 'logic-reason' to your fantasy-bias world-bs(evolution)---

is called psychosis/evolution!

2 posted on 07/01/2002 7:31:51 AM PDT by f.Christian
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Comment #3 Removed by Moderator

To: aculeus
" . . . any view of the sciences that leaves Christ out of the picture must be seen as fundamentally deficient."

To illustrate how small this belief is, in sheer numbers, I would wager that the percentage of the world population who believes this is a mere fraction of the people who number themselves as homosexual.

4 posted on 07/01/2002 7:44:26 AM PDT by TightSqueeze
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To: FreeperJr.
I couldn't agree more! The study of science in all of its aspects was started by Christians and had no problem with God. Now, atheists want to hijack science as their own and make it say whatever they want.
5 posted on 07/01/2002 7:44:44 AM PDT by elephantlips
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To: *crevo_list
Bump
6 posted on 07/01/2002 7:46:49 AM PDT by Free the USA
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To: aculeus
Bla bla bla...

The Blind Atheist

7 posted on 07/01/2002 7:52:33 AM PDT by Raymond Hendrix
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To: aculeus
Of course, design has no predictive power. ID is not a scientific theory. If we had previously attributed the unexplainable to design, we would still be using Thor's hammer to explain thunder. Nor does ID have any technological applications. It can be fun to ask ID advocates about the practical applications of their work. Evolution has numerous practical technological applications, including vaccine development. ID has none.

It's funny when people say things like this. ID does not demand that we sit on our butts and accept what we see - humans obviously have minds and the desire to "know". We were created with that desire and there is nothing in what we know of God to indicate he wants to keep us in the dark. In fact, it's just the opposite - a proper understanding of the nature of God leads one to the conclusion that He does speak, He does reveal himself and it is a perfectly logical conclusion to realize that we can hear His voice. There is nothing hidden from us - we just have to go out and find it.

Evolution has numerous practical technological applications, including vaccine development.

I'm no scientist so I'd be curious to know - what are the practical applications of evolution?

8 posted on 07/01/2002 7:57:15 AM PDT by Frapster
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To: Frapster
I'm no scientist so I'd be curious to know - what are the practical applications of evolution?

To explain where liberals came from.

9 posted on 07/01/2002 8:06:08 AM PDT by Still Thinking
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To: Frapster
I'm no scientist so I'd be curious to know - what are the practical applications of evolution?

Yes I can envision the next generation, home schooled, or schooled in ID junk science, directing America technology.
The net result of such thinking leads to hiding in caves and praying to god for deliverance from your enemies’ smart bombs, as we have seen in Afghanistan.

10 posted on 07/01/2002 8:19:41 AM PDT by TightSqueeze
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To: TightSqueeze
Yes I can envision the next generation, home schooled, or schooled in ID junk science, directing America technology. The net result of such thinking leads to hiding in caves and praying to god for deliverance from your enemies’ smart bombs, as we have seen in Afghanistan.

lol - funny - such enlightened observation ignores the role that Christian scientists have played throughout history. Typical of modern day revisionist thinking.

11 posted on 07/01/2002 8:23:02 AM PDT by Frapster
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To: TightSqueeze
Yes I can envision the next generation, home schooled, or schooled in ID junk science, directing America technology.

So can I. Isn't it refreshing to have a reason for confidence! Thanks for your encouraging post.

12 posted on 07/01/2002 8:32:15 AM PDT by kinsman redeemer
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To: aculeus
Michael Behe, a biochemist at Lehigh University and an ID proponent, argues that many biochemical and biophysical mechanisms are "irreducibly complex."4 He means that, if partially dismembered, they would not work, so they could not have evolved. This line of argument ignores the large number of biological functions that look irreducibly complex, but for which intermediates have been found.

In other words, there are some cases where it appears that evolution could not have occurred, but there are other cases where scientists feel there is some evidence that evolution could have occurred. Therefore, evolution occurred in all cases.

Not the best syllogism I've ever seen.

13 posted on 07/01/2002 8:32:20 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy
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To: kinsman redeemer
…such enlightened observation ignores the role that Christian scientists have played throughout history.

Show me the list of Bible-Thumpers who advanced science. I agree there were many scientists who were Christian, very few that placed their religion before science though. Who could forget the great theologian that probed the scriptures and pondered the equation of the age, E=mc. Yeah, and I am the one here accused of being a revisionist, right.

14 posted on 07/01/2002 8:38:53 AM PDT by TightSqueeze
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To: VadeRetro; Junior; jennyp; PatrickHenry; general_re; donh
A nice little article.
15 posted on 07/01/2002 8:40:21 AM PDT by balrog666
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To: TightSqueeze
>>..very few that placed their religion before science though.<<

Are you suggesting that science and religion are at odds? Interesting statement. I heartily disagree, if that's what you are saying.

16 posted on 07/01/2002 8:46:04 AM PDT by SerpentDove
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To: ClearCase_guy
"Michael Behe, a biochemist at Lehigh University and an ID proponent, argues that many biochemical and biophysical mechanisms are "irreducibly complex."4 He means that, if partially dismembered, they would not work, so they could not have evolved. This line of argument ignores the large number of biological functions that look irreducibly complex, but for which intermediates have been found."
Hey, this guy is quoting a Catholic Christian scientist. Too bad he did so in the misdst of an incoherent arguement. Behe is absolutely correct and, obviously, he doesn't consider biological functions "irreducibly complex" if there exists evidence they are not.

Too bad the author hadn't evolved some logic along with the attitude. Panic has set in for the Cult of Darwin. Get the Kool Aid ready....
17 posted on 07/01/2002 8:47:45 AM PDT by Catholicguy
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To: TightSqueeze; Frapster
I could do that, but your ramblings are misdirected. I think it's Frapster you want.

And it's : "E = mc2" by the way.

18 posted on 07/01/2002 8:49:37 AM PDT by kinsman redeemer
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To: aculeus
**YAWN**
19 posted on 07/01/2002 8:51:29 AM PDT by That Subliminal Kid
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To: FreeperJr.
Fairness, open discussion, and democracy are core American values and often problematic.

Can't find a much more leftist, control freakish, totalitarian statement than that.

Hardly - it's a simple truth, and one that should be obvious given a moment's reflection.

20 posted on 07/01/2002 8:54:18 AM PDT by general_re
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To: SerpentDove
Are you suggesting that science and religion are at odds?

What I am saying is… History has shown, a scientist’s success at adding knowledge to his particular field of endeavor, is inversely proportional to his religious fanaticism. Got that.

21 posted on 07/01/2002 8:55:12 AM PDT by TightSqueeze
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To: Frapster
Q. I'm no scientist so I'd be curious to know - what are the practical applications of evolution?

A. http://www.darwinianmedicine.o rg/
22 posted on 07/01/2002 8:55:44 AM PDT by aculeus
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To: kinsman redeemer
Right you are.
23 posted on 07/01/2002 8:59:52 AM PDT by TightSqueeze
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To: aculeus
One only has to ask the question how did the simple cell acquire the millions of instructions associated with its DNA. Intellegent Design recognizes that anyone interested can see the difference between the natural Mount Evans or Longs Peak and the designed Mount Rushmore. In biology you see the same thing. Evolutionists refuse to acknowledge the several human biological subsystems could not evolve because they are irreducably complex. To reject design because it would impact your world view is intellectual dishonesty and not worthy of one who would like to call him or herself as scientist.
24 posted on 07/01/2002 9:00:22 AM PDT by enotheisen
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To: aculeus
These debates are so predictable. Why do you even bother? You'll all scream and shout at each other, your side screaming "Creationist" and the other side screaming "Evolutionist" and in the end you will be right where you started, if a little more diametrically opposed to one another's views. What I find most amusing, and perhaps most telling, is how angry and hostile some people are to the Intelligent Design concept. Do you really feel threatened? I mean, let's be honest. Actions speak louder than words, and your actions tell me that "Intelligent Design" poses a serious threat to the monopoly that natural Evolution has in the public sphere. Furthermore, you lack confidence in your natural Evolution, you lack confidence in your own science, and fear that an open debate in a public forum would not win your side any points. That's why you wish to stifle the debate, and shut the opposition out. You fear them. Oh, sure. You'll deny it, no doubt. But your actions, and I mean all people who behave as you do regarding this subject, expose your own motives.
25 posted on 07/01/2002 9:04:12 AM PDT by That Subliminal Kid
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To: aculeus
ID was originally developed to find evidence of intellegent life on other planets. It has found patterns that indicate that life on this planet has a design behind it. This does not challenge evolution in any way. It merely suggests that god has used evolution to create life. Atheists simply fear that the evidence is going against them.
26 posted on 07/01/2002 9:04:13 AM PDT by CyberSpartacus
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To: elephantlips
The study of science in all of its aspects was started by Christians

"Cyril's army of monks murdered the prefect and were cannonized by him for this deed; marauding through the city they came across Hypatia, daughter of the Museum's last great mathematician Theon. She was a Neoplatonist philosopher and astronomer whose teachings are partially recorded by one of her admirers and pupils, the Christian Synesius, and she was also supposedly an advisor to Orestes and one of the last members of the Museum. Driving home from her own lectures without attendant, this independent woman and scholar epitomized the suspect nature of Paganism and its heretical scientific teachings. She was dragged from her chariot by the mob, stripped, flayed, and finally burned alive in the library of the Caesareum as a witch. Cyril was made a saint. After her death Alexandria became steadily less stable, overrun by the monks who evolved into the Copts, who incorporated the old Alexandrian prejudices towards foreigners with the new prejudice towards any scientific or classical knowledge."

27 posted on 07/01/2002 9:05:43 AM PDT by jlogajan
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To: aculeus
Evolution is Atheism in it's birthday suit.
28 posted on 07/01/2002 9:06:21 AM PDT by Bryan24
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To: aculeus
Genetic Engineering works and it worked 7000 years ago too.

Now go mine gold like you were programmed to do.

29 posted on 07/01/2002 9:07:19 AM PDT by gwynapnudd
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To: aculeus
I'm still waiting for the science that demonstrates that non-living matter can self-assemble, simultaneously acquire the ability to convert raw energy into a usable form, and subsequently increase in informational complexity to the point that it becomes self aware. In the absence of such science, you sir, have faith. Just like everyone. It's so funny to see you put on heirs, puffing out your free-thinking, rationalist chest and pounding it a while, declaring your side to be the correct and scientifically justified side. I find it most bizzare how you try and use science as a tool with which to beat your arch-enemy over the head with. It makes those of us who are actually thinking things through laugh quietly.
30 posted on 07/01/2002 9:07:44 AM PDT by That Subliminal Kid
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To: That Subliminal Kid
It makes those of us who are actually thinking things through laugh quietly.

Well, you'll have to express yourself as you can, since your ID'ers don't seem to be able to get published in peer reviewed scientific journals -- oh, I forgot, you are all the victims of the vast atheist conspiracy. I suggest tinfoil.

31 posted on 07/01/2002 9:10:24 AM PDT by jlogajan
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To: aculeus
Some postulate some sort of--what's it called--pans spermia?

a la ET.

That is, that ET seeded creation to get it going good. Of course, that doesn't answer where ET came from.

But atheists don't have a good answer for where the original atoms came from either. . . . and though she might have thought otherwise, it wasn't from M. M. O'Hair's farts either.
32 posted on 07/01/2002 9:14:55 AM PDT by Quix
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To: jlogajan
I think they ought to publish in peer reviewed journals. Dembski has offered explainations as to why he doesn't. Maybe he will someday. Why are they "my Id'ers"? I'm playing devils advocate like I always do. It's fun to sit in the middle and watch extremists like yourself get your panties in a bunch. I don't think there is an atheist conspiracy either. I think it's extremely hard to get something that is almost totally math-based to be accepted as empirical science. Then again, no peer reviewed papers have been published explaining how non-living matter self assembles and simultaneously acquires energy conversion capabilities. I expect you'll start screaming "Creationist" soon, so just get on with it and I'll resign myself to laughing. Unless you think you can carry on a discussion without resorting to sarcasm and insults.
33 posted on 07/01/2002 9:15:09 AM PDT by That Subliminal Kid
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To: That Subliminal Kid
I mean, let's be honest. Actions speak louder than words, and your actions tell me that "Intelligent Design" poses a serious threat to the monopoly that natural Evolution has in the public sphere. Furthermore, you lack confidence in your natural Evolution, you lack confidence in your own science, and fear that an open debate in a public forum would not win your side any points.

Such BS, scientific theory is not a destination it is a journey, the question is never really answered, discoveries and advancements simply spur better questions. ID is an attempt to hijack this process and interject god into all the current unknowns, thus effectively shutting down all future research. The real fear is that America would loose its technological edge and its ability to remain on the cutting edge. I mean really lets be honest.

34 posted on 07/01/2002 9:15:47 AM PDT by TightSqueeze
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To: TightSqueeze
Can you explain specifically how ID attempts to "inject God" into "science"? I expect you to make specific references to Dembski's work, quotes of his statements, etc. in order to make your case. I'll look forward to reading an explaination for this oft made remark.
35 posted on 07/01/2002 9:18:45 AM PDT by That Subliminal Kid
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To: Quix
atheists don't have a good answer for where the original atoms came from either

Here's the difference. Theists can't answer where god came from. Now the difference between atoms and god is that we know atoms exist. So theists are merely adding an unseen layer -- multiplying entities, as Occham would say.

36 posted on 07/01/2002 9:19:23 AM PDT by jlogajan
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To: aculeus
bump for later
37 posted on 07/01/2002 9:19:32 AM PDT by Varda
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To: TightSqueeze
I also would like you to explain, specifically, how Intelligent Design would hinder people from studying evolutionary theory, natural or otherwise. Also, explain how specifically a desire to acquire more technological information would be harmed. Thanks.
38 posted on 07/01/2002 9:19:59 AM PDT by That Subliminal Kid
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To: That Subliminal Kid
Can you explain specifically how ID attempts to "inject God" into "science"?

Well, who is the "intelligent designer"??? A rose by any other name...

39 posted on 07/01/2002 9:20:25 AM PDT by jlogajan
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To: jlogajan
Theists would say that God didn't "come from" anywhere.
40 posted on 07/01/2002 9:20:41 AM PDT by That Subliminal Kid
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To: jlogajan
What difference does it make who the designer is?
41 posted on 07/01/2002 9:21:08 AM PDT by That Subliminal Kid
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To: jlogajan
And some of us know God exists.

Would you insist Love doesn't exist because you can't "see" it tangibly in 3 dimensions before your eyes and under the "scientifc" measurement of your hands?
42 posted on 07/01/2002 9:21:40 AM PDT by Quix
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To: Quix
But atheists don't have a good answer for where the original atoms came from either...

I'm not an atheist, but the origin of atoms does not matter upon that which one believes -- atoms coalesced out of the miasma of subatomic particles which themsleves condensed from the high-energy state which existed right after the big bang.

43 posted on 07/01/2002 9:23:46 AM PDT by Junior
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To: Junior
It's magic!
44 posted on 07/01/2002 9:24:46 AM PDT by That Subliminal Kid
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To: aculeus
The anti-intelligent design folks are starting to look as ridiculous as the Big Bang/Hubble-Redshift-Can-Only-Mean -Recessional-Velocity people. Someday they'll be as irrelevant as Ptolemaic astronomy, and for the same reasons.
45 posted on 07/01/2002 9:30:28 AM PDT by aruanan
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To: aculeus
I know some people here believe in evolution, and some here believe in creationism. I have always believed, that either way, if it has holes in it, and both certainly do, then more research must be done, and until its a fact, its a theory. Evolution is not a fact, their are numerious holes in it, yet we refuse to teach kids about the holes and the problems with it, and thus take away and possibilty of perfecting or knowing the truth. Science is about searching for the truth, not denying it.
46 posted on 07/01/2002 9:34:50 AM PDT by Sonny M
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To: That Subliminal Kid
What difference does it make who the designer is?

What I don't get is why you ID'ers think you can seriously get away with this sneaking of God in merely by renaming him the Intelligent Designer. I'm wondering if even first graders would fall for that obvious deception.

47 posted on 07/01/2002 9:38:05 AM PDT by jlogajan
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To: aculeus
The big lie which is being promulgated by the evos is that there is some sort of a dialectic between evolution and religion. There isn't. In order to have a meaningful dialectic between evolution and religion, you would need a religion whicih operated on an intellectual level similar to that of evolution, and the only two possible candidates would be voodoo and Rastifari.

The dialectic is between evolution and mathematics. Professing belief in evolution at this juncture amounts to the same thing as claiming not to believe in modern mathematics, probability theory, and logic. It's basically ignorant.

Evolution has been so thoroughly discredited at this point that you assume nobody is defending it because they believe in it anymore, and that they are defending it because they do not like the prospects of having to defend or explain some aspect of their lifestyles to God, St. Peter, Muhammed...

To these people I say, you've still got a problem. The problem is that evolution, as a doctrine, is so overwhelmingly STUPID that, faced with a choice of wearing a sweatshirt with a scarlet letter A for Adulteror, F for Fornicator or some such traditional design, or a big scarlet letter I for IDIOT, you'd actually be better off sticking with one of the traditional choices because, as Clint Eastwood noted in The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly:

God hates IDIOTS, too!

The best illustration of how stupid evolutionism really is involves trying to become some totally new animal with new organs, a new basic plan for existence, and new requirements for integration between both old and new organs.

Take flying birds for example; suppose you aren't one, and you want to become one. You'll need a baker's dozen highly specialized systems, including wings, flight feathers, a specialized light bone structure, specialized flow-through design heart and lungs, specialized tail, specialized general balance parameters etc.

For starters, every one of these things would be antifunctional until the day on which the whole thing came together, so that the chances of evolving any of these things by any process resembling evolution (mutations plus selection) would amount to an infinitessimal, i.e. one divided by some gigantic number.

In probability theory, to compute the probability of two things happening at once, you multiply the probabilities together. That says that the likelihood of all these things ever happening, best case, is ten or twelve such infinitessimals multiplied together, i.e. a tenth or twelth-order infinitessimal. The whole history of the universe isn't long enough for that to happen once.

All of that was the best case. In real life, it's even worse than that. In real life, natural selection could not plausibly select for hoped-for functionality, which is what would be required in order to evolve flight feathers on something which could not fly apriori. In real life, all you'd ever get would some sort of a random walk around some starting point, rather than the unidircetional march towards a future requirement which evolution requires.

And the real killer, i.e. the thing which simply kills evolutionism dead, is the following consideration: In real life, assuming you were to somehow miraculously evolve the first feature you'd need to become a flying bird, then by the time another 10,000 generations rolled around and you evolved the second such reature, the first, having been disfunctional/antifunctional all the while, would have DE-EVOLVED and either disappeared altogether or become vestigial.

Now, it would be miraculous if, given all the above, some new kind of complex creature with new organs and a new basic plan for life had ever evolved ONCE.

Evolutionism, however (the Theory of Evolution) requires that this has happened countless billions of times, i.e. an essentially infinite number of absolutely zero probability events.

And, if you were starting to think that nothing could possibly be any stupider than believing in evolution despite all of the above (i.e. that the basic stupidity of evolutionism starting from 1980 or thereabouts could not possibly be improved upon), think again. Because there is zero evidence in the fossil record (despite the BS claims of talk.origins "crew" and others of their ilk) to support any sort of a theory involving macroevolution, and because the original conceptions of evolution are flatly refuted by developments in population genetics since the 1950's, the latest incarnation of this theory, Steve Gould and Niles Eldredge's "Punctuated Equilibrium or punc-eek" attempts to claim that these wholesale violations of probabilistic laws all occurred so suddenly as to never leave evidence in the fossil record, and that they all occurred amongst tiny groups of animals living in "peripheral" areas. That says that some velocirapter who wanted to be a bird got together with fifty of his friends and said:

Guys, we need flight feathers, and wings, and specialized bones, hearts, lungs, and tails, and we need em NOW; not two years from now. Everybody ready, all together now: OOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.....

You could devise a new religion by taking the single stupidest doctrine from each of the existing religions, and it would not be as stupid as THAT.

But it gets even stupider.

Again, the original Darwinian vision of gradualistic evolution is flatly refuted by the fossil record (Darwinian evolution demanded that the vast bulk of ALL fossils be intermediates) and by the findings of population genetics, particularly the Haldane dilemma and the impossible time requirements for spreading genetic changes through any sizeable herd of animals.

Consider what Gould and other punk-eekers are saying. Punc-eek amounts to a claim that all meaningful evolutionary change takes place in peripheral areas, amongst tiny groups of animals which develop some genetic advantage, and then move out and overwhelm, outcompete, and replace the larger herds. They are claiming that this eliminates the need to spread genetic change through any sizeable herd of animals and, at the same time, is why we never find intermediate fossils (since there are never enough of these CHANGELINGS to leave fossil evidence).

Obvious problems with punctuated equilibria include, minimally:

1. It is a pure pseudoscience seeking to explain and actually be proved by a lack of evidence rather than by evidence (all the missing intermediate fossils). Similarly, Cotton Mather claimed that the fact that nobody had ever seen or heard a witch was proof they were there (if you could SEE them, they wouldn't BE witches...) This kind of logic is less inhibiting than the logic they used to teach in American schools. For instance, I could as easily claim that the fact that I'd never been seen with Tina Turner was all the proof anybody should need that I was sleeping with her. In other words, it might not work terribly well for science, but it's great for fantasies...

2. PE amounts to a claim that inbreeding is the most major source of genetic advancement in the world. Apparently Steve Gould never saw Deliverance...

3. PE requires these tiny peripheral groups to conquer vastly larger groups of animals millions if not billions of times, which is like requiring Custer to win at the little Big Horn every day, for millions of years.

4. PE requires an eternal victory of animals specifically adapted to localized and parochial conditions over animals which are globally adapted, which never happens in real life.

5. For any number of reasons, you need a minimal population of any animal to be viable. This is before the tiny group even gets started in overwhelming the vast herds. A number of American species such as the heath hen became non-viable when their numbers were reduced to a few thousand; at that point, any stroke of bad luck at all, a hard winter, a skewed sex ratio in one generation, a disease of some sort, and it's all over. The heath hen was fine as long as it was spread out over the East coast of the U.S. The point at which it got penned into one of these "peripheral" areas which Gould and Eldredge see as the salvation for evolutionism, it was all over.

The sort of things noted in items 3 and 5 are generally referred to as the "gambler's problem", in this case, the problem facing the tiny group of "peripheral" animals being similar to that facing a gambler trying to beat the house in blackjack or roulette; the house could lose many hands of cards or rolls of the dice without flinching, and the globally-adapted species spread out over a continent could withstand just about anything short of a continental-scale catastrophe without going extinct, while two or three bad rolls of the dice will bankrupt the gambler, and any combination of two or three strokes of bad luck will wipe out the "peripheral" species. Gould's basic method of handling this problem is to ignore it.

And there's one other thing which should be obvious to anybody attempting to read through Gould and Eldridge's BS:

The don't even bother to try to provide a mechanism or technical explaination of any sort for this "punk-eek"

They are claiming that at certain times, amongst tiny groups of animals living in peripheral areas, a "speciation event(TM)" happens, and THEN the rest of it takes place. In other words, they are saying:

ASSUMING that Abracadabra-Shazaam(TM) happens, then the rest of the business proceeds as we have described in our scholarly discourse above!

Again, Gould and Eldridge require that the Abracadabra-Shazaam(TM) happen not just once, but countless billions of times, i.e. at least once for every kind of complex creature which has ever walked the Earth. They do not specify whether this amounts to the same Abracadabra-Shazaam each time, or a different kind of Abracadabra-Shazaam for each creature.

I ask you: How could anything be stupider or worse than that? What could possibly be worse than professing to believe in such a thing?




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Splifford the bat says: Always remember:

A mind is a terrible thing to waste; especially on an evolutionist.
Just say no to narcotic drugs, alcohol abuse, and corrupt ideological
doctrines.

48 posted on 07/01/2002 9:40:54 AM PDT by medved
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To: aculeus

Some useful references:

Major Scientific Problems with Evolution

EvolUSham dot Com

EvolUSham dot Com

Many Experts Quoted on FUBAR State of Evolution

The All-Time, Ultimate Evolution Quote

"If a person doesn't think that there is a God to be accountable to, then what's the point of trying to modify your behavior to keep it within acceptable ranges? That's how I thought anyway. I always believed the theory of evolution as truth, that we all came from slime. When we died, you know , that was it, there is nothing..."

Jeffrey Dahmer, noted Evolutionist

Social Darwinism, Naziism, Communism, Darwinism Roots etc.

Creation and Intelligent Design Links


Evolutionist Censorship Etc.


Catastrophism

Big Bang, Electric Sun, Plasma Physics and Cosmology Etc.

Finding Cities in all the Wrong Places

Given standard theories wrt the history of our solar system and our own planet, nobody should be finding cities and villages on Mars, 2100 feet beneath the waves off Cuba, or buried under two miles of Antarctic ice.

Intelligent Versions of Biogenesis etc.

Talk.origins/Sci.Bio.Evolution Realities


49 posted on 07/01/2002 9:41:58 AM PDT by medved
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To: Sonny M
until its a fact, its a theory.

That dichotomy is a misunderstanding of science. Humans make observations (sometimes called "facts") and postulate functional models (theories.)

There never is a crossing over -- models remain models and observations remain observations. Our confidence in both observations and models can be high or low.

Confidence in the observations of the fossil record is high, the fitting with the evolutionary model is high.

Confidence in observations of ID is low, fitting of the ID theory with the fossil record is low.

50 posted on 07/01/2002 9:43:00 AM PDT by jlogajan
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