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Why July 4 is significant to Islamists
World Net Daily ^ | July 3, 2002 | Mark Robinson

Posted on 07/03/2002 6:09:49 AM PDT by Linda Liberty

On Sunday, one of the "experts" in the endless parade of experts on cable news stated the obvious: "I am unaware of any special significance of the date Sept. 11." His implication was that there is no reason to anticipate a terror attack on July 4 because bin Laden didn't use date significance as a basis for selecting 9-11. Although he was technically accurate, he was pretty far from correct.

Bin Laden is trying to raise the entire Muslim world to Jihad. Creating the mystique of the Chosen is central to his goal, and symbolism is the greatest weapon in his arsenal (thus far). Consider what he said (twice) in his post-Sept. 11 video: "… after 80 years, the sword has come to America …" He was clearly referring to the resolution passed by the U.S. Congress endorsing the partition of Palestine (creation of a Zionist homeland) on Sept. 11, 1922.

Experts on American news networks continually warn us that al-Qaida may be encoding secret messages to sleeper cells in their videos and communiqués, but bin Laden speaks openly, relying on us not knowing even our own history, let alone Islamic history. Which brings us to July 4. We, in our narcissism, assume that July 4 is all about us. But to Muslims it is a day of ultimate triumph.

On July 4, 1197, Saladin (Salah al-Din) completely annihilated the 20,000-man Crusader army at the battle of the Horns of Hattin, driving the "Christians" from the Holy Land until the 20th century. And we can be sure it is not lost on bin Laden that Saladin won this battle in spite of the fact that the Crusaders carried with them the "True Cross" (the True Cross was a relic designated by Constantine's mother during the initial phase of the paganization of Christianity).

Consequently, July 4 is a very likely candidate for a terrorist strike, albeit only if the Islamists feel they have the means to achieve a final victory over the U.S.

The first question is, do they? Recently, al-Qaida spokesman Abu Ghaith promised to kill 4,000,000 of us, referring to America as "Hubal." Hubal was the last and the largest of the 364 pagan gods in the Kaaba to be toppled by Muhammad (al-ilah, the predecessor to Allah, was left standing). The image of Hubal was so large that Ali (Muhammad's son and the first Imam) had to stand on the Prophet's shoulders to push it over.

The second question is, clearly, is bin Laden ready to stand on the Prophet's shoulders now? That really should be a role of the 12th Imam (Al Mahdi – the long-awaited Muslim chosen one who will convert the whole world by the sword). Maybe bin Laden has been hanging around a guy in really old clothes for a reason: Mullah Omar wears the Cloak of Muhammad (which he stole from a museum in Kandahar). We all know neither clothes nor symbols make the man, but in an eschatologically-based war, image and deeds together can be larger than life. Remember, most of Europe capitulated before Tiger tanks bearing swastikas and the mere idea of blitzkrieg.

It is reported that Bin Laden writes poetry in the style of Saladin. For bin Laden, defeating the Crusader army and knocking over Hubal on July 4 would be the stuff of which epic poems are made.


Mark Robinson is a scientist and author.


TOPICS: Editorial; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: binladen; homelandsecurity; islamist
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I thought this was worth bringing to your attention.I guess we'll find out in a few days if there is anything to it.

Why is World Net Daily the only source that seems capable of coming up with this?

Anybody know anything else about the author? He might be worth reading.

I'm also curious what he means by: "the initial phase of the paganization of Christianity". Sounds like he's writing an interesting history book.

1 posted on 07/03/2002 6:09:49 AM PDT by Linda Liberty
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To: Linda Liberty
In-Depth Bump.
2 posted on 07/03/2002 6:14:32 AM PDT by LikeLight
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To: Linda Liberty
The Romans incorporated many of the rituals of pagan religon into the Christian Church. One example is Christmas, Jesus was born in the spring (his dad was in town to pay his taxes which would have been in March.), not during the winter solstice December 25th.
3 posted on 07/03/2002 6:18:40 AM PDT by CyberSpartacus
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To: CyberSpartacus
Which phase of the paganization of christianity
are we in now (if any)?
4 posted on 07/03/2002 6:20:01 AM PDT by Linda Liberty
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To: Linda Liberty
Seems to me we are pretty far down that path already.....
5 posted on 07/03/2002 6:24:07 AM PDT by anniegetyourgun
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To: Linda Liberty
I'm also curious what he means by: "the initial phase of the paganization of Christianity".

Christianity has adopted a lot of pagan symbols which have no biblical origin. The most obvious ones are related to Easter and Christmas celebrations.

6 posted on 07/03/2002 6:26:26 AM PDT by knuthom
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To: Linda Liberty
Here's a good read on the subject of the paganization of Christanity

There are many references to it in Eliot's The Waste Land

7 posted on 07/03/2002 6:29:49 AM PDT by Pharmboy
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To: Linda Liberty
Remember, most of Europe capitulated before Tiger tanks bearing swastikas and the mere idea of blitzkrieg.

The Germans didn't start to build Tiger tanks in April 1942. This was long after the blitzkrieg phase and capitulation of most of Europe.

How's that for being anal? ;-)

8 posted on 07/03/2002 6:30:13 AM PDT by Rightwing Conspiratr1
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To: Linda Liberty
Remember, most of Europe capitulated before Tiger tanks bearing swastikas and the mere idea of blitzkrieg.

Unfortunately, the Tiger tank did not come on the scene until after the blitzkriegs that subjugated Europe.

9 posted on 07/03/2002 6:31:45 AM PDT by Junior
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To: Rightwing Conspiratr1
err until April 1942.
10 posted on 07/03/2002 6:32:20 AM PDT by Rightwing Conspiratr1
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To: Rightwing Conspiratr1
Most people do not let facts get in the way of what they want to believe. The fact that we conveniently ignore our own history is ample proof.
11 posted on 07/03/2002 6:32:45 AM PDT by Movemout
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To: Linda Liberty
If bin Laden is still breathing, and if his health condition is bad, he may attempt another "big" event soon so he can see the results before he departs this earth for Allah.

Some similar ideas have circulated regarding Saddam Hussein. If he feels his demise is imminent, he will "pull out all the stops" and release every evil means at his command.

The conclusion is--these men are dangerous, not only to Americans, but also to mankind. They have little qualms about releasing horrible WMD's on mankind in general. They probably relish the idea that history could record them as having destroyed x-millions of humans.
12 posted on 07/03/2002 6:34:04 AM PDT by TomGuy
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To: Linda Liberty
"(Al Mahdi – the long-awaited Muslim chosen one who will convert the whole world by the sword)."
How characteristic of devil-worshippers to aspire to converting the world "by the sword" rather than by peaceful means, persuasion, love, teaching.

But what else would anyone expect from a "god" that loves murder, suicide, terror, pain, and death--and those who serve "it"?

13 posted on 07/03/2002 6:35:13 AM PDT by Savage Beast
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To: Rightwing Conspiratr1
And when the Germans overran France, the British and French not only had BETTER tanks, but MORE tanks :-).
14 posted on 07/03/2002 6:36:11 AM PDT by John H K
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To: knuthom
Christianity has adopted a lot of pagan symbols which have no biblical origin

St. John also plagerised Plato .. In the beginning was the Word etc... only in the Platonic system, Plato NEVER wrote: "and the word was made flesh". Still, the first part is directly lifted from Plato. Chistianity (at the time) was an attempt to create a hybrid between the vague "word" of Platonic philosophy and give it a human face.

15 posted on 07/03/2002 6:36:34 AM PDT by Utopia
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To: Linda Liberty
Which phase of the paganization of christianity are we in now (if any)?

The American Secular Humanist (Separation of Church & State) phase. Kill god and the rest follows. (Cut off the head, and the body is sure to die)
That phase.

16 posted on 07/03/2002 6:36:59 AM PDT by mc5cents
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To: Linda Liberty
Every single date of the year has had something significant happen in the history of Israel, or the history of Islam, or the history of Islamic/Christian conflict.

You've got basically 1300 chances for a given date to have had something happen.
17 posted on 07/03/2002 6:38:11 AM PDT by John H K
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To: TomGuy
Saddam already tried once. When he was forced to abandon Kuwait, recall, he lit every oil well on fire. There were dire
projections at the time, I seem to recall, of vast planetary
ecological effects. Fortunately, American know how and heroics, coupled with the brilliance of the capitalist system,
succeeded in dowsing those fires in a matter of weeks
instead of the years or decades that could well have happened
absent these factors.
18 posted on 07/03/2002 6:38:28 AM PDT by Linda Liberty
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To: CyberSpartacus
If anything, the establishment of December 25th as the celebration of the Nativity of Christ was to establish a competing festival to the pagan practices.
19 posted on 07/03/2002 6:39:44 AM PDT by FormerLib
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To: Rightwing Conspiratr1
Kind of comical when you see people use Tiger, Panther, and Panzer interchangably, isn't it?
20 posted on 07/03/2002 6:42:07 AM PDT by FormerLib
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To: Linda Liberty
On Sunday, one of the "experts" in the endless parade of experts on cable news stated the obvious: "I am unaware of any special significance of the date Sept. 11." His implication was that there is no reason to anticipate a terror attack on July 4 because bin Laden didn't use date significance as a basis for selecting 9-11.

OK - I'm wearing my tinfoil hat! But, on the night of September 11 I noticed that there was a crescent moon with a star next to it (venus?) - very, very bright. That is the symbol of the United Arab Emirates, if I'm not mistaken. I believe they perpetrated their act of terrorism under their symbol.

21 posted on 07/03/2002 6:42:42 AM PDT by sneakers
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To: CyberSpartacus
One example is Christmas, Jesus was born in the spring (his dad was in town to pay his taxes which would have been in March.), not during the winter solstice December 25th.

That is absolutely true. Dec. 25 was the date for the traditional celebration of the Sun God, in the pagan world. Whether you called him Ra or Apollo, ir didn't matter. Dec 25 was your day to give thanks. The Christians appealed to Constantine to have a date on their own, and Constantine said: "You can use Dec 25. Take it or leave it." So the early Christians decided that if they gave presents to each other (symbolizing the wise men), they would be different from all those other people also celebrating on Dec. 25.

22 posted on 07/03/2002 6:43:47 AM PDT by Utopia
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To: sneakers
OK - I'm wearing my tinfoil hat! But, on the night of September 11 I noticed that there was a crescent moon with a star next to it (venus?) - very, very bright.

What's your lat/long? I can research that.

23 posted on 07/03/2002 6:45:17 AM PDT by Utopia
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To: Utopia
Thank you! I don't know my lat/long. but I live in Western, Pa - about 45 miles east of Pittsburgh.
24 posted on 07/03/2002 6:46:16 AM PDT by sneakers
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To: Linda Liberty
On the other hand....truly historical dates are not planned.

They become historic after some deed randomly pans out on that date. The folklore is created ex post facto.

It seems to me that those who try to mimic history rarely make it.

25 posted on 07/03/2002 6:49:23 AM PDT by sam_paine
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To: Linda Liberty
To blow a small hole in the 9/11 theory is an article I recently read, possibly in Time Magazine.

The FBI now theorizes that the attacks of 9/11 were hastily moved up to that date when Moussouai was arrested. They beleive the mission was moved up in case details of it were obtained through interrogation.

26 posted on 07/03/2002 6:50:18 AM PDT by Trust but Verify
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To: sam_paine
On the other hand....truly historical dates are not planned.

Its a safe prediction that Fidel Castro will die on Cuba's greatest holiday.

27 posted on 07/03/2002 6:52:59 AM PDT by Linda Liberty
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Comment #28 Removed by Moderator

To: knuthom
Christianity has adopted a lot of pagan symbols which have no biblical origin. The most obvious ones are related to Easter and Christmas celebrations.

I'm interested as to what you consider pagan symbols in the Christian recognition of Easter?

29 posted on 07/03/2002 6:54:58 AM PDT by TwoBear
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To: Linda Liberty
My God, the base in Saudi Arabia!
30 posted on 07/03/2002 6:59:08 AM PDT by Constitutions Grandchild
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To: 2sheep; RnMomof7; ArGee; Dakmar; EODGUY
ping
31 posted on 07/03/2002 6:59:12 AM PDT by Khepera
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To: Linda Liberty
"Al Mahdi – the long-awaited Muslim chosen one who will convert the whole world by the sword."
I don't suppose it ever occurred to these Satanists to try to "convert the whole world by the" TRUTH...and with the TRUTH...and to the TRUTH.

But then again, perhaps it did. TRUTH would mean the end of Islam.

32 posted on 07/03/2002 6:59:14 AM PDT by Savage Beast
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To: sneakers
OK - I'm wearing my tinfoil hat! But, on the night of September 11 I noticed that there was a crescent moon with a star next to it (venus?) - very, very bright. That is the symbol of the United Arab Emirates, if I'm not mistaken. I believe they perpetrated their act of terrorism under their symbol

Ummmmm....no.

They perpetrated the attack in good weather. 9/11 had CAVU (clear air, visibility unlimited) from Boston to Washington, DC. You can get a fairly reliable weather forecast 3 days out and you can be sure they didn't get a final "go" till 3 days beforehand.

Had 9/11 been cloudy you can bet your bottom dollar we'd likely be talking about the "9/18" attacks.

Those attacks were heavily dependent on no low clouds. Thus, a physical impossibility for them to be scheduled based on some date in ancient history or some silly astronomical feature.

33 posted on 07/03/2002 7:01:33 AM PDT by John H K
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To: TwoBear
I'm interested as to what you consider pagan symbols in the Christian recognition of Easter?

One could actually argue that the Easter date calculation itself is a hold over from paganism. The official definition (used to this day is): (Gregorian Easter)

The FIRST Sunday AFTER The FIRST Full Moon AFTER the Spring Equinox

34 posted on 07/03/2002 7:03:47 AM PDT by Utopia
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To: FormerLib
Other good ones are:

1) The media calls ANY military vehicle that isn't obviouly a jeep a "tank"......including APCs, AFVs, LAVs, etc.

2) The media calling any naval vessel..including frigates, cruisers, and destroyers, a "Battleship" (currently no battleships in active service anywhere in the world.)

3) The WORST one is the media confusing "casualties" with "killed" (this one is so bad I suspect over 50% of FR readers probably think casualty = killed); casualities refer to killed, WOUNDED (doesn't have to be mortal or even that badly wounded), and missing.

35 posted on 07/03/2002 7:05:02 AM PDT by John H K
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To: sneakers; John H K
OK - I'm wearing my tinfoil hat! But, on the night of September 11 I noticed that there was a crescent moon with a star next to it (venus?) - very, very bright.

At my location, the moon wasn't up on the night of September 11.

36 posted on 07/03/2002 7:07:16 AM PDT by Utopia
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To: Utopia
I don't believe anything was moved up. 9-11 went off without a hitch. We were clueless. The date 9-11 was classic in the sense of history as someone had alluded (anniversary of the perceived to be revival of the crusades vis a vis the Congress vote on partitioning) as well as the well known emergency 911 significance. If your looking for fate and whose side it rests, chalk one up for the bad guys. I am quite concerned about another attack but don't see it to be some "rinky dink" operation in a crowd of people. They are going after the big hit. I see container ships in close proximity to refineries as the big risk. Chemical warfare using our own chemicals as the catalyst.
37 posted on 07/03/2002 7:14:42 AM PDT by kinghorse
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To: Utopia
Eh, it was visible, and a last quarter moon, but wasn't visible till after midnight.

Still, a moot point, as I've stated, because clear weather was absolutely critical; even with GPS, someone with a radio beacon at the target, etc., it would have been IMPOSSIBLE for them to hit either target with a low cloud deck, IMHO.

38 posted on 07/03/2002 7:15:52 AM PDT by John H K
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To: CyberSpartacus
re: in town to pay taxes.)))

A reasonable assertion...however, you tend to view this from modern times, which have more rigorous dates and deadlines, commincations and modern transportation. Even the Romans would not have expected so efficient a census-taking as you would suggest in March. Some scholars believe the family remained in Bethlehem after the birth for several months, even to a couple of years.

Can't deny that there are pagan tones to religious holidays. One of the holidays least associated with paganism is the Feast of All Saints...Halloween.

39 posted on 07/03/2002 7:16:33 AM PDT by Mamzelle
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To: TomGuy
They have little qualms about releasing horrible WMD's on mankind in general. They probably relish the idea that history could record them as having destroyed x-millions of humans.

If there's no one left to record history, did it really happen?

40 posted on 07/03/2002 7:19:12 AM PDT by Lou L
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Comment #41 Removed by Moderator

To: Invincibly Ignorant
Thought you may be interested to see where this thread is headed.
42 posted on 07/03/2002 7:28:21 AM PDT by ksen
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To: mille99
Then why didn't they wait another year to strike us on Setember 11, 2002?

Details, details, details... these men are terrorists not mathematicians.

43 posted on 07/03/2002 7:30:39 AM PDT by Gaston
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Comment #44 Removed by Moderator

To: John H K
With all due respect; It may be silly to US but it is not silly to THEM:

http://www.ummah.org.uk/ildl/index.html

45 posted on 07/03/2002 7:37:13 AM PDT by sneakers
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To: John H K
Eh, it was visible, and a last quarter moon, but wasn't visible till after midnight.

Putting it after midnight puts it on the 12th, which is the point I was making. I needed sneakers' lat/long .. but it seemed clear to me that that particular story was just that ... a story

46 posted on 07/03/2002 7:37:56 AM PDT by Utopia
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To: Linda Liberty; All
You know, when I see a story like this that begins, "On this date in history, such 'n such happened," I can't help wondering if these dates were adjusted when the modern calendar was adopted.

For instance: George Washington's birthday used to have 2 different designations -- one from the Julian Calendar and one from the Gregorian Calendar. You get my point? Does the July 4th date given for the Battle of the Horns of Hatten actually correspond to our modern calendar, or not? Any professional historians among the Freepers? Buehler? Anyone?

47 posted on 07/03/2002 7:50:36 AM PDT by Tallguy
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To: CyberSpartacus
Jesus was born in the spring ...

While it is true Christian leaders did in a sense "baptize" pagan holidays--in a missionary effort to help people forget the old ways...the fact of the matter is no one really knows when Jesus was born. I've heard scholars say a good guess is in Autumn, since that's when harvest is gathered -- and the traditional time to collect taxes. Your scholars say its Spring... Scholars have also scoffed at the idea that sheperds would be tending their flocks near Jerusalem in December--unfortunately for the scholars shepherds do actually, even today, tend sheep outside in December! Scholars are simply often wrong. The popular scholarly theory is that Dec. 25 or the solstice was Saturnalia-converted-to-Christmas--but we really do not know when Jesus was born, period.

We also don't know that Dec. 25 was NOT Jesus' birthday--as any honest scholar will reveal.

48 posted on 07/03/2002 8:00:04 AM PDT by AnalogReigns
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To: Tallguy
Does the July 4th date given for the Battle of the Horns of Hatten actually correspond to our modern calendar, or not?

My guess is: it doesn't matter. Its July 4 to the modern Islamists, irrespective of how the calendars have been changed in the interim.

Incidentally, there have been a number of cases where terrorist bombers have blown themselves up because they got crossed up with daylight savings time and such time changes. I believe two of them shared the Darwin award one year for just such a screw-up. They're not likely to be more mathematically precise regarding historical dates.

49 posted on 07/03/2002 8:07:02 AM PDT by Linda Liberty
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To: Utopia
I'm sorry - I thought you said you could research it. Here are my coordinates:
40.619628N, 79.159596W


50 posted on 07/03/2002 8:13:30 AM PDT by sneakers
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