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A 'Marriage Strike' Emerges As Men Decide Not To Risk Loss
The Philadelphia Inquirer ^ | July 5, 2002 | Glenn Sacks and Dianna Thompson

Posted on 07/06/2002 5:00:19 AM PDT by buccaneer81

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To: gore3000
A woman knows that if she has a child she will get welfare or child support and need not work for a living so this encourages women to take no precautions and even encourages them to deceive men into producing children.

This thread is probably the greatest incentive that I've seen to get a vascectomy.

141 posted on 07/06/2002 8:42:32 AM PDT by Jedi Master Yoda
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To: Tennessee_Bob
So where are all the women that are looking for nice guys?

The Phillipines and Japan.
Four of my friends married Japanese ladies, one married a Phillipina.
10-15 years later, no divorces...just the usual short bouts of disharmony you'd
have with anybody you'd share an apartment with.

BUT...I will add that all these marriages did have a religious-compatibility factor;
four of the guys were missionaries for the mainstream Churches of Christ, the fifth
was a marriage intermediated by Church of Christ "friends of friends".

I was a working associate with two of the guys for over three years.
They were both the proverbial "nice guys", not effeminant in the least, but just
moral, principled with good sense of humor.

American ladies, including most they met here in the USA at church, hardly gave them
the time of day. I also knew some of these ladies...I wouldn't be suprised if they
aren't now entering their forties and wondering why they never got married...
142 posted on 07/06/2002 8:46:32 AM PDT by VOA
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To: Balto_Boy
Men have the power to put a stop to this, but are more interested in proving their manhood instead.

We are probably going to find out in not too many years whether you are right, and I suspect that we are going to find out that men's pre-marital sexual behavior has zero to do with whether government seeks to remove adult males from those human families they do manage to form.

A safe and effective male contraceptive is going to change the dynamics of the current situation in some funny ways. A "marriage strike" can be tolerated so long as government continues to enforce child support obligations. Women may not find it desireable, but it is tolerable. You are suggesting that men take this a step further and go on a "conception strike," thus placing the continuation of the society itself in peril. This would indeed get government's attention, but probably not in the way you expect.

There are hints in the debate over paternal DNA testing that government is less interested in tying child support obligation to biological parenthood than to men as a class. Were there to become available a cheap and effective male contraceptive, such that men with something to lose economically could take themselves out of the target environment (a much more likely form of 'conception strike,' in my view, than the widespread adoption of celibacy which you seem to be suggesting), I believe government's response would be to begin supporting the children of single mothers via the tax system. There would always be loser men out there who had nothing to extract in terms of child support who would be willing to serve as society's studs. All you'd have is bunch of frustrated, celibate males who got dinged anyway in the form of higher taxation.

My hunch is that what is going on is not fixable, at least not in a democratic society. This is a classic "tragedy of the commons" phenomenon in which it is in each person's individual short-term interest to continue pushing the society incrementally towards collapse. It is now in every man's short-term individual interest to avoid marriage. It is in every woman's short-term individual interest to seek ever-more onerous government intervention to extract child support from men, married or not. The whole thing just goes click-click-click like a ratchet, one baby and divorce at a time, toward a place no one wants to go.

It is easy to see how short-term political considerations and the application of endless band-aid fixes will take this society from where it is now toward nearly universal single parenthood by women, supported through the tax system by a government that has to become ever-more draconian in its collection methods, as men quietly opt out of the society altogether because it has nothing for them. That's not politically stable and it won't last all that long, but for the decade or two before it is overthrown, the government we have now is likely to become men's worst nightmare. At the time it will look to people like the only way, but it wasn't the only way. It's just that the choices to go another way had to have been made about twenty years ago. It's too late now, we're going this way.

143 posted on 07/06/2002 8:47:35 AM PDT by Nick Danger
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To: meyer
Interesting. Women use biased courts to steal the earnings from men in divorce. Men call them on it. Women suddenly call it "whining". If a thief breaks into your house and swipes all your favorite jewelry, do you "whine" to the police or just sit back and take it?

As I have said before, divorce is not a good thing. It should not be a surprise that there are many unpleasant consequences. Are today's men really so ineffective that they can do nothing to prevent the break-up of their own marriages?

144 posted on 07/06/2002 8:50:00 AM PDT by independentmind
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To: meyer
Lust can be a hard one to tame!!

That's the cause of much of the problem. You can go to any singles' bar and see the married men removing their wedding bands and also check what kind of women attract the most men. Men who choose poorly shouldn't complain so much about the consequences of their own choices, often the most they know about a woman they marry is her bra size.

145 posted on 07/06/2002 8:55:43 AM PDT by FITZ
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To: TonyRo76

146 posted on 07/06/2002 8:57:48 AM PDT by Justa
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To: Maceman
Any guy who never even sees it coming is too clueless to live.

Actually I've always heard that it's pretty common for one spouse to think they have a happy marriage,while the other is considering leaving, divorce, whatever. Think about all the affairs that come as a complete surprise.

147 posted on 07/06/2002 9:00:01 AM PDT by Sci Fi Guy
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"Men who choose poorly shouldn't complain so much about the consequences of their own choices, often the most they know about a woman they marry is her bra size."

How many "angels" before marriage turn into something entirely different after marriage? Women can be very good at presenting a false face. Sometimes, a man has to be super- astute to pick out the dead-end kids.

148 posted on 07/06/2002 9:03:22 AM PDT by Don Myers
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Comment #149 Removed by Moderator

To: Don Myers
You had me scared there for a minute, bud.

Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!

150 posted on 07/06/2002 9:05:43 AM PDT by wku man
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To: wku man
"Married Freepers just don't understand how slim the pickings are these days...whether at the local pub or the local church, most young, single women in this nation are Oprahtized, confused, money grubbing dingbats (or worse) that any man with a brain wouldn't have anything to do with! I know because I've dodged the bullet twice now. I'd like to think that "she" is out there, but the more I date and the more women I meet these days, the more pessimistic I get. If you're in college, I imagine you know exactly what I'm talking about."

The picking aren't any better for us women. It's scarey out there. The men are just as money-grubbing, and just as confused.

151 posted on 07/06/2002 9:06:14 AM PDT by SCalGal
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To: meyer
Lust can be a hard one to tame!!

Perhaps Moore's Law can be of help.

I hope that someday, someone invents a holodeck like the one in Star Trek, and then men can go inside and have all the risk-free sex that they want. When the real women find out that they are no longer of any use, then maybe they will consider treating men better.

152 posted on 07/06/2002 9:06:20 AM PDT by Jedi Master Yoda
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To: buccaneer81
What is the underlying cause of this current mess called "marriage"?

It's the freakin' marriage license!

A license is defined in Black's Law Dictionary, Fifth Edition, as follows:

"The permission by competent authority to do an act, which, without such permission, would be illegal, a trespass, or a tort. People v. Henderson, 391 Mich. 612, 218 N.W.2d 2, 4.

This begs the obvious question. Since when did "marriage" become an "illegal act"? Hmmm?

In the 1800's in America, the only persons who needed a marriage license were those people of differing races, who wanted to marry. Why? Because back then it was illegal for a white to marry a black (and vice-versa). Hence, they needed "special permission" from the State to perform an "illegal act".

Today, everyone blindly trots off to get a "marriage license" because, well, that's what you do, right?

When you obtain a marriage license you are essentially forming a "corporation", with the State acting in the role of "third party interest" with an "equitable nexus".

What are the "profits" from such a pseudo corporation? Children for one thing. Real property for another.

And that is why you cannot dissolve your marriage without the State's involvement, assuming there is a marriage license in effect.

And what about "separation of church and state"?

The act of marriage is a religious ceremony!

"By the power vested in me by the State of California, I hereby declare you husband and wife." What???

Imagine this. A Baptism license. Imagine Joe Sixpack saying; "Now, uh, let me get this straight. You're saying I got to get me a license to accept Jesus Christ as my Lord and Saviour?"

Did your great-great grandparents have a marriage license? No they did not. Did the world come crashing down? No.

George Washington married Martha Dandridge Custis in 1759. Do you suppose George Washington, the First President of the United States of America, trotted down to his local governmental "authority" and obtained a marriage license? Hell no, he did not.

So why do Americans get marriage licenses? Because they are dumbed down and ignorant, and that's by design.

153 posted on 07/06/2002 9:07:17 AM PDT by handk
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To: Wondervixen
Well said
154 posted on 07/06/2002 9:07:47 AM PDT by rkrtgw
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To: Nea Wood
Chew on that!

Aha! A pristine 1950s society preserved deep in the jungle of Kalifornia. Who woulda thunk it.....

155 posted on 07/06/2002 9:11:59 AM PDT by philomath
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To: Nea Wood
"Yes, you truly believe that you are victims and that "the system" is set up against you and that the opposite sex is evil. But don't Feminazis feel the same way, in reverse? Chew on that! "

We are looking at the conditions in this country now, and voicing our opinions based on those observations. I have eyes, and I see what is happening out there.

As for sexual morality, the typical young lady of today will hit the sack with almost anything that walks or slithers down the road. It is not uncommon for women to have had hundreds of sex partners before they get married somewhere in their mid to late 20s if they get married at all. They have "explored their sexuality" with both men and women. The poor guy coming home doesn't know if he will find the little lady in the sack with the guy from next door, the girl from next door, or both.

At last glance, the divorce rate was fifty percent. It may be more by now.

STDs have become much more prevalent in the last few years. That is a direct result of prevailing promiscuity in this generation. Some of these STDs are brutal. They are disfiguring and permanent in their effects, even rendering many women incapable of having children.

Ok, considering all factors, the man is facing a woman with no morals, all the viciousness of a pissed-off king cobra, and the health of a person with one foot in the grave. And, the woman thinks she is doing the man a favor by offering him her lily-white hand. The hand is all that she has left. The rest was used up a long time ago.

I am happy that I got a good woman before all of the nonsense that is going on today became common.

156 posted on 07/06/2002 9:16:05 AM PDT by Don Myers
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To: buccaneer81
Interesting piece - thanks for posting it.

I agree with many of the points contained therein. I will likely never marry again for many of the reasons cited in the article, and I'm most definitely not "Peter Pan," uncommitted, or immature. The reasons my ex cited in filing for divorce were based solely on her own convenience, and were not the result of any abuse, emotional distance, or dishonorable behavior on either of our parts. Our marriage and our lives were a great adventure in many ways, and when, by necessity, the adventure changed to something different for a while, she was the one who tucked tail and ran first.

This is not a rant against my ex though. She is honorable and successful (and a better shot than I am). We had an understanding, hammered out in excruciating detail before we married, that either party had an open door and was free to walk through it for good reason. I do not keep slaves, and am quite capable of doing my own laundry without turning all the white clothes pink. Her children were already grown and we had no issue of our own, so we were both fortunate that there were no child support issues to consider.

Since many women apparently feel that marriage is a part-time job or choose to define it as till death do us part or until something better comes along, I say "Ignore them and the horse they rode in on" when the next Sadie Hawkins Day comes along. My life is full and complicated enough as it is without blindly signing another social contract with a woman using invisible ink.

157 posted on 07/06/2002 9:16:18 AM PDT by strela
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To: SouthernFreebird
This is one instance out of hundreds.

When I was going through my divorce, another guy I know got slapped with the traditional restraining order.

Seems he'd found out his wife was unfaithful, but confronted her before he had evidence. She called the police and proceeded to trash the house, rip her clothes, and as she saw the squad car pull in, attacked him.

Who did the police believe? One guess.

He lost the house, the car, the kids, paid 1800/month in child support (in a much lower geared economy than folks on the coasts are used to, in 1990) and even had his firearms taken away--with the right to own one under Clinton.

One little VHS videotape saved me that.

Unfortunately, guys who get custody of their children are still few and far between.

The wife in the case I cited is a Methamphetamine addict (the case where the guy got custody of his kids), so the judge didn't have a lot of choice, except to farm the children out to foster homes.

Don't let the exceptions cited blind you to the overwhelming majority of cases which go the other way.

158 posted on 07/06/2002 9:16:32 AM PDT by Smokin' Joe
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Comment #159 Removed by Moderator

To: Nea Wood
So now Katherine, a middle-aged woman with no recent job experience, has to get a job. She certainly can't get a very rewarding or well-paying job. But if she didn't work at all, and just collected alimony, everyone would criticize her as a "typical lazy selfish ex-wife taking her poor, poor husband to the cleaners."

Thank you for pointing out this scenario. I have seen it almost as often as I have seen the shrewish, feminazi-type who eats her male life partner like a spider.

The "Katherine" in your scenario is all the more tragic because she is one of the very few good women who actually live the true spirit of marriage. It cost her. I've seen it.

160 posted on 07/06/2002 9:20:08 AM PDT by nightdriver
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