"Pro-Israel lobby" is not why America supports Israel

Jewish World Review ^ | July 8 2002 | Dennis Prager

[rdb3]

I was not nor am I "upset." That's your interpretation. I have nothing to do with it, and I don't prove negatives.

[LostTribe]

>...how Abraham wasn't a Jew. Duh! How could he have been one when his great-grandson Judah is where the term "Jews" comes from?

Are parents named after their children?  I am an American, but my Grandfather was never called an American. 

>Abram, who was renamed Abraham by the Father, was the first Hebrew, not the first "Jew."

Well, that's partly correct.  Abraham was not the first Hebrew, and never was a Jew.  Neither were Isaac and Jacob.  In fact, here is a partial list for your study:

Partial list of Biblical Characters
Most were Hebrews and Israelites but NONE were JEWS

Genesis:  God, Adam, Eve, Cain, Abel, Seth, Enoch, Methuselah, Noah, Shem, Ham, Japheth, Lot, Abraham , Sara, Melchizedek, Eliezer, Hagar, Ishmael, Isaac , Abimelech, Rebekah, Laban, Keturah, Esau, Jacob/Israel , Leah, Rachel, Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Dan, Naphtali, Gad, Asher, Issachar, Zebulun, Joseph, Benjamin, Dinah, Potiphar, Tamar, Perez, Zerah, Manasseh, Ephraim.

Exodus:  Moses, Zipporah, Gershom, Jethro, Aaron, Eleazar, Joshua, Hur , Nadab, Abihu, Ithamar, Bezalel, Uri, Nun, Oholiab, Ahisamach.

Leviticus:  Mishael, Elzaphan, Uzziel, Molech, Shelomith, Dibri.

Others:  David, Solomon and Sampson were not Jews, among many others...

No Israelites were called "Jews" until well after the collapse of the Davidic Kingdom of Israel.  These 5 MILLION Israelites split into Northern and Southern Kingdoms in about 922 BC , and both Kingdoms were taken into captivity and separate diaspora within 400 years.

It was not until ~500 BC, following the return of remnants of the Southern Kingdom from Babylon that the name Jew appears in history. Those ~50,000 Jews were Southern Kingdom Israelites, and were only a tiny group compared to the Millions of Israelites from the Northern Kingdom (who were never called Jews) had escaped their Assyrian captivity and moved on to appear in history as The Celts.  (Please click on my LostTribe profile for more details.)

[moteineye]

but Abraham had two sons,Ishmael and Issac and God made a covenant only with one son. God said in Gen.17:19,"I will establish my covenant with him(Issac,son of Abraham)for an everlasting covenant,and with his seed after him. Gen.17:21 ,"But my covenant will I establish with Issac."
The Jews are descendants of Issac.

[moteineye]

They may not have been called Jews but they were distinguished by circumcision,and they were descendants of Issac > and Abraham and the tribe of Judah.

[moteineye]

Well, the Bible is an argument for some.At least 30% of the Republican party are evangelical Christians.The imptortant point is that for whatever reason we are on the same side.

[wewereright]

just can't have a discussion without getting personal? Look there are many reasons why we give the aid to the I's my view many are not good. The # one is least discussed...we gived them billions for weapons produced by U.S. companies....so in part this is about $$$ handouts to US companies which I also oppose. Cut the welfare to all!!

[PaulKersey]

}They may not have been called Jews but they were distinguished by circumcision, and they were descendants of Issac > and Abraham and the tribe of Judah.

If I remember correctly, circumcision was an Abrahamic tradition, in use long before there were any Jews. That would also mean all of the Isrealites employed it, not just the Jewish ones.

[PaulKersey]

>The Jews are descendants of Issac.

Excuse me, but I believe all of the Isrealites are descendents of Isaac, not just the Jewish ones.

[PaulKersey]

>The Jews are descendants of Issac.

Excuse me, but I believe all of the Isrealites are descendents of Isaac, not just the Jewish ones.

[dennisw]

EXCELLENT! Some of my taxes go to help Israel repel the Muslim Jihad. I like this!

[PaulKersey]

>To: rdb3

>Why are you threatened by the information losttribe presents? It's historical and Biblical. You should refute it instead of becoming emotional about it. If you can't, what's the point of becoming upset?

I agree with you. Must be a bunch of recent public school graduates who can't handle the possibility of thinking about a new idea, something that's new to them. I get a big kick out of following Lost Tribes take on history. And I have to say, he's convinced me on a number of points. And I've checked them out to be sure.

Now if I could just get my thick skulled Preacher to open his tiny mind a narrow crack I could maybe shine a light or two around in there, between the cobwebs.

[dennisw]

We've been spending billions per year defending Saudi, Kuwait and their oil. A lot more than we help out Israel.

[moteineye]

Perhaps all Israelites were descendants of Issac. I don't know where the descendants of Ishmael ended up.

[PaulKersey]

>Perhaps all Israelites were descendants of Issac.

I think they were. At least according to the history at Lost Tribes profile site. I checked that history out against the Bible a while back to be sure it was OK, and unless the Bible has changed since then I think it's still correct. Never know about these new translations, ya know. Ha.

[WaterDragon]

Prager is right about my support for Israel.

[moteineye]

Isn't God's covenant with the line of

Abraham,Isaac,Jacob,and Judah,Perez and so on ?

[William Terrell]

I have nothing to do with it, and I don't prove negatives.

Then why respond at all if you've nothing to do with it? It's not necessary to prove anything. It's just generally customary to put up some contrary evidence when expressing your opposing opinion. The custom is actually for your protection.

How do you find the truth of a matter without evaluating supporting and opposing evidence, and if you not interested in finding the truth, then why should anybody read what you have to say?

[William Terrell]

Unfortunately, this information carries a lot of baggage from the assorted nut cultures it's been used as a growing medium for.

[Texas Mom]

Perhaps all Israelites were descendants of Issac. I don't know where the descendants of Ishmael ended up.

Arabs is my understanding.. Muslims..

[Urbane_Guerilla]

Even atheists and agnostic Americans have to admit that our American values of individual liberty and individual responsibility are a consequence of Judeo-Christian ideas. These are the values shared by Americans and Israelis, and Americans and Europeans, and Americans and any other national who cherishes the rule of law as the foundation of freedom.

We wildly disagree on what the precise rules of law should be, but at least we agree to disagree based on certain principles, such a fairness, equality under law, and individual liberty.

In the recognition of those principles, we are recognizing the humanity in all of us, the imperative to treat others as we wish to be treated, and to be left free to do what we want not inconsistent with the Golden Rule.

That is why Americans do regard and should regard Israel with special concern. Israel against her hopes and yearnings is besieged by the chief opponents of all that America believes. Whether we as Americans want it to be so or not, Israel has become the cypher for America in view of our present enemies, not without some reason. If Ireland or Italy ... or France, those ungrateful bastards ... were besieged as such, America would be no less a friend.

Christians with special pleadings based on the Bible dilute the argument, if they do not specifically acknowledge their own special pleading when they support Israel, and simultaneously acknowledge the sufficiency of our non-Christian reasons for supporting Israel.