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Socialist Professor Responds
7/8/02 | commieprof

Posted on 07/08/2002 4:52:12 PM PDT by commieprof

An open letter to my critics:

Let me please take this opportunity to thank you for your feedback and to clarify a few points that seem to be at issue. Thank you to those who have sent messages of support, and to those of you whose criticisms are based in argument and reasoning, rathern than in name calling and death threats. Thank you to those of you who noticed that I took care in my pledge not to identify with terrorists, suicide bombers, or Islamic regimes, but with the ordinary people around the world, including those here in the United States. And thank you, I guess, to those of you who are praying for my salvation. I tend to see a better world as being possible here on earth and am not waiting for the second coming so that the meek can inherit their due. But at least you aren't threatening my life, and I appreciate that.

To those of you who are sending me hate mail equating me with the enemy, however, let me attempt to make the following clarifications. It is true that the format of a pledge does not allow one to present arguments full-blown. People may have misunderstood my meaning and intent because of the brief and condensed nature of the genre.

I take my freedoms to dissent in this country very seriously. I do not want to live anywhere else in the world, your invitations to exile notwithstanding. I am a citizen with the right to protest what I see as unjust and inhumane policies, both economic and military. You are correct that I am relatively privileged; I would not have the same rights to dissent and protest in countries like Afghanistan, although if I lived there, I would be part of social movements to resist oppression whether in the form of Islamic fundamentalism or U.S. bombs. Activists in the countries I named often stress the importance of critique and dissent here in the belly of the beast. I feel a certain obligation, an obligation that comes with freedom, to speak out alongside of those with less freedom to speak. I pledged solidarity not with any nation's leaders or terrorist organizations, but with the ordinary people, who are not being liberated by U.S. sanctions and bombs or by U.S. support for the Israeli occupation. I see the people in Afghanistan who were bombed as they celebrated a wedding two weeks ago as being as human as those who died in the World Trade Center, for whom I also have tremendous compassion.

I should add that people in developing countries are not being liberated by the opportunites provided by U.S.-dominated world capitalism. I do not have space to go through all the evidence for these claims, but if you have an open mind, I suggest you read some Howard Zinn, especially People's History of the United States and his more recent Terrorism and War. Suffice it to say that if you have read any history you know that the U.S. either put in place or supported with money and guns the very dictators you decry today, including the Taliban and Saddam Hussein. The United States has taken part in the undermining of democratic (defined as supported by the majority of the people, not in terms of the free market) regimes in Latin American and the Carribean almost as a matter of course (Chile, Haiti and the Philippines for example), not to mention in Asia and Africa. The list is too long to recite here.

Those of you who are offended that you might have to fight and die for my freedoms clearly have misunderstood my anti-war stance. I do not want you to be sent to other countries to die or kill, because I think those actions are not in defense of our freedoms; more often it's about protecting oil profits (even Bush Sr. admitted as much about the Persian Gulf War, which resulted in more than a million and a half civilian deaths). I don't want you over there killing civilians in my name, when my freedoms are not what is being defended at all. Neither are yours. Even though you may hate me, I don't want to you die for someone else's profits.

I do not agree with the analysis that "our way of life" offers hope and salvation to those living in other countries under dictators and in poverty. When four percent of the world's population controls more than 60% of the world's wealth, when the nation states that harbor the strongest enterprises defend those interests with force, when U.S. foreign policy and economic policy are designed to drive countries into unsalvageable debt or rubble, it is impossible for me to remain uncritical. Too often, it is not the fault of bad leaders, bad values, wrong religion, or corrupt people in other nations that brings them ruin, but the policies of production for export over meeting human needs, the support of the U.S. for dictators like the former Suharto in Indonesia, who massacred more than 200,000 people but was, according to the state department, "our kind of guy" because he supported Nike and Freeport MacMoran's exploitation of the people there. I could go on. When Madeline Albright said that the deaths of 5,000 children a month in Iraq as a result of U.S. sanctions were a reasonable price to pay for U.S. foreign policy objectives, I reacted with the same level of disgust that you are bombarding me with now.

I think we have to face these hard realities about "our way of life" if we are truly to understand "why they hate us" and to prevent acts of desperation and hatred targeting civilians in the future. I am not defending terrorism (which, if defined as the targeting of civilian life in retaliation for political and economic grievances, would apply to U.S. conduct in every war it has fought). But it seems reasonable to consider that "they" (Iraqis, Palestinians, Muslims in general) might hate the United States for the havoc it has wrought in the Middle East. Some examples: First supporting and arming Hussein when he was fighting our enemies and killing the Kurds, then slaughtering Iraq's civilian population and bombing the country back to the stone age. First supporting and arming Islamic fundamentalists in Afghanistan when they were fighting "the communist menace," then bombing their civilian population. . . You get the idea. The support for Israel and its wars and occupations against Palestinians against United Nations resolutions and international law doesn't win our government any friends, either. It is always wrong to terrorize civilians in response to such abuses. Yet the history is part of the answer to the question and a change in U.S. foreign policy must be part of the solution.

If you cherish the freedoms of the United States, it would be hypocritical of you to be intolerant of the expression of opinions that differ from yours. I am a well-educated, thoughtful human being. I am well qualified to teach at the University ("universe"-ity), which should be a place for thoughtful and respectful sharing of diverse views. My students get trained in critical thinking: the capacity to take in a number of perspectives and weigh evidence and reasoning on their own, which they would not be able to do if there were not at least a few dissenters among us here. I mean, the business school gets the big bucks and military- and corporate-funded research dominate the campus. It's a rare class where a student would find points of view that challenge the corporate and geopolitical hegemony of the United States. So I feel sorry for the students whose parents would keep them from attending my classes or the University of Texas because of what I wrote. Don't you have faith that your children can think for themselves? Don't you trust them with a range of positions and approaches to knowledge? Haven't you prepared them to defend your family's values? Any viewpoint is welcome in my classes so long as the arguer can provide evidence and reasoning in support of claims. Contrary to popular mythology, I do not routinely fail conservative students; I do welcome their voices in class so long as respect for others and standards of argumentation are sustained. Actually, the smarter conservative students tell me that they enjoy a good challenge, which they take as a sign of respect. And believe me, I am a member of a tiny political minority on campus that is nowhere near acting like the "thought police" envisioned by the hard right. The kind of fear I hear in the emails I am receiving and on the conservative listservs I have been monitoring is based on a complete overestimation of any single professor's influence.

In sum, I am not the enemy of freedom; to the contrary, I am among its staunchest supporters. I think freedoms should be expanded, not curtailed, in this time of crisis. I worry that now with the modified Patriot Act (which allows security agencies to perform warrantless searches, detentions, and wiretaps, among other things) and the new mega- security-intelligence agency consolidation, that we may not have these freedoms to dissent very much longer. I will raise questions about U.S. foreign policy and corporate globalization as long as I can. It is my prerogative, my right, and, as I see it, my responsbility.

A brief comment on patriotism, or nationalism: To me it seems untenable to say that I have more in common with George W. Bush, Martha Stewart, or Kenneth Lay than I do, say, with a teacher in Afghanistan or a student in Iraq or a UPS driver here at home. Likewise, they might share interests with me and have little in common with Saddam Hussein or Al Quaeda. As a socialist (not a Stalinist, and there is a difference), I have a positive vision of international solidarity and struggle against greed, war, exploitation, and oppression on a world scale. In my view, patriotic fervor dehumanizes people around the world so that their deaths or their hunger or their homelessness can be blamed on them and forgotten.

It's not like me to base an argument on the words of the "founding fathers" but let me remind you that it was Thomas Jefferson (leaving aside his fondness for slaves for a moment) who believed that criticism and dissent were at the core of democracy. He even thought that the citizenry should take up arms against a government when they thought it was becoming too tyrannical. It took a revolution to make the democracy you cherish, and in my view it will take another to make real democracy (political and economic) for the majority of the world's population.

Ben Franklin wrote that when a nation prioritizes security over liberty, the consequences could be dire for democracy. Contrary to my correspondents, I do not believe that order is the ground from which all liberty springs. History teaches quite another lesson--it took a civil war, for example, to end slavery. And "order" is a god term not of democratic societies but of fascism. Unfortunately, I believe that in this extremely sensitive time people are all too willing to embrace a notion of security--not only against terrorists but also against critical ideas and thoughtful dialogue--over liberty.

I hope that this set of expanded arguments makes for more thinking and fewer personal attacks. Of course, I hoped to provoke a response and I welcome deba†e and dialogue. I do not feel like a victim and I am not complaining about being criticized. However, I hoped to get a *real* response, not just hate and intimidation in the name of freedom.

I encourage activists with views similar to mine to come out into the light of day. The urgency of speaking now far outweighs the flak we will get for standing up.

With best regards,

Dana Cloud


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: fascism; liberty; opuslist; patriotism; pledge; religion; socialism; theflag
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To: commieprof
Oh, dear. I wonder what you're a professor of. Certainly not history, as you seem not to know it. I have read your Howard Zinn. A sociologist friend gave me a copy of A People's History of the United States when it first came out. Having only a couple of years earlier finished my field exams in American history, I was appalled at the errors and blatant Marxism and anti-Americanism of Zinn's work. He has stated explicitly in other writings that he regards making his political point more important than historical accuracy. As my children have been forced to read Zinn in their high school honors history classes, I reread the book and came away with an even more unfavorable impression than I had originally formed. I cannot respect his work, or take him seriously.

The truly astonishing thing is that you can remain a Marxist (calling yourself commieprof strongly suggests this) after 1989 and the fall of the Soviet empire. The revelations that have come to light in the past dozen or so years make it clear that Marxism in Russia and Eastern Europe was a thug's game and morally bankrupt from the get-go. Virtually all of the charges levelled against Marxims by the right - from von Mieses on the economics side to Popper on the philosophy side and Koestler and even Whittaker Chambers, turned out to be not only true, but understated. Have you read The Black Book of Communism? Edited by Frenchmen and the work of European scholars, many with leftist credentials, the work is damning.

It used to be said (variously attributed to Clemanceau, Churchill and several others) that anyone who was not a socialist at 18 had no heart, and anyone who was not a conservative at 40 had no brains. More truly, it must be said that anyone who remains a Marxist after 1989 is either an idiot, a naive fool, or a power-hungry enemy of mankind.

151 posted on 07/08/2002 9:54:28 PM PDT by CatoRenasci
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To: liberallarry
Only truly brilliant commierprofs can understand these higher forms of social text & discourse.
And yes, you will be amazed at the identity of the author.
152 posted on 07/08/2002 10:20:15 PM PDT by tpaine
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To: CatoRenasci
I haven't been in school for nearly 40 years. When I was it was in the hard sciences - but I had a lot of friends in politics and the arts, and I enjoyed them immensely. Their professors could really talk and spun a wonderful web. I remember a popular book of the time - The Excremental Vision. I may have read a chapter or two. I didn't care whether it was true or not. It was vastly inventive and entertaining.

Now, when I read the work of commieprof I am appalled. Have things changed so much or was I merely young when I formed those opinions?

153 posted on 07/08/2002 10:27:54 PM PDT by liberallarry
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To: tpaine
Well? Do I have to beg?

I have a story of my own. Unless I'm dealing with an arcane but respected speciality I'm always suspicious if I can't understand a word of an English text.

I was working with a woman who claimed to channel. She knew I was sceptical so she brought a book which explained it. I couldn't understand a word. She said she would help and asked me to read passages which confused me. Since she wasn't watching closely I just skipped from page to page - a word here, a sentence there. When I'd put together about 6 paragraphs I asked her to explain. She did.

154 posted on 07/08/2002 10:38:59 PM PDT by liberallarry
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To: commieprof
Hate America First, by Gore Vidal:
I was in Guatemala when the CIA was preparing its attack on the Arbenz government [in 1954]. Arbenz, who was a democratically elected president, mildly socialist. His state had no revenues; its biggest income maker was United Fruit Company. So Arbenz put the tiniest of taxes on bananas, and Henry Cabot Lodge got up in the Senate and said the Communists have taken over Guatemala and we must act. He got to Eisenhower, who sent in the CIA, and they overthrew the government. We installed a military dictator, and there's been nothing but bloodshed ever since.

This event was the watershed for nearly every subsequent protest by the leftist liberals in the Americas (including the U.S.) and was pointed to over and over as the great evil of American patriotism; it has been thrown around every program of socialist interest on college campuses ever since; it is popular among the left-winger-weenies as the calling card or ID card of the politically correct's assertion that the United States of America is the enemy to be hated.

I may strongly disagree with even more such "businesses practices" than has Mr. Vidal, but his ill will toward Americans trying to defend themselves against the ultra-coercions of the nationalizing socialism(s) which he and his followers have favored, has constantly overlooked that very horror, such as this, which we still struggle against --- what the leftists have manifested; see: The U.S. case against the court (ICC) is bogus on its face., Minneapolis Star-Tribune, July 2, 2002, by editorial staff (posted by wallcrawlr). My reply there:

Why is there no mention of the truly large atrocities committed by the extreme left-wing in the Minneapolis Star-Tribune?

Will Castro and the communists of Cuba be arrested?

Will the communists of Southeast Asia be arrested?

Will the communists of Asia be arrested?

Heart of darkness: Cambodia's Killing Fields

 August 8, 2001 [CNN online]

By CNN's Joe Havely

PHNOM PENH, Cambodia -- The fields of Choeung Ek on the outskirts of the Cambodian capital, Phnom Penh, carry a dark secret.

Across the baked earth scraps of cloth and human bone poke through the soil and are slowly bleached white by the harsh tropical sun.

In the center stands a glass-walled shrine containing more than 8,000 skulls -- the remains of just a few of those who died here.

These are the Killing Fields of Cambodia.

Here, just a few kilometers from the center of Phnom Penh, tens of thousands of people met their deaths -- entire families wiped out.

Many of those killed were intellectuals or trained professionals -- people considered counter-revolutionaries by the Khmer Rouge leadership bent on turning Cambodia into a [communist, socialist, leftist, fascist] peasant's paradise. (In " [ ] " --- mine, F_S)

Towards the end of its rule, as the regime became increasingly paranoid and turned on itself, many once senior Khmer Rouge cadres also met their end at Choeung Ek.

Men, women and children -- some just a few months old -- were killed here, often in the most violent and brutal ways.

With bullets in short supply, the condemned were forced to kneel before an open grave then stabbed through the head with a sharpened bamboo stake ...

Reign of terror


The fields of Choeung Ek contain more than 100 mass graves

In the corner of the field stands a tree ...

Against its trunk the heads of babies were smashed by young men brainwashed into believing their actions would free Cambodia from colonial imperialism ...

Reuters contributed to this report.


155 posted on 07/08/2002 10:52:36 PM PDT by First_Salute
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To: liberallarry
Check out:


http://www.elsewhere.org/cgi-bin/postmodern/
156 posted on 07/08/2002 10:53:19 PM PDT by tpaine
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To: commieprof
hey there, while laughing out loud with your friends as you read these posts, you had no idea that you were so wrong and that your arguments didn't hold up ... get a good night's sleep

Inri

157 posted on 07/08/2002 11:10:38 PM PDT by InvisibleChurch
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To: supercat
Actually, coöps can work under certain circumstances. Indeed, even relatively pure communism can work in societies that are small enough that everyone knows everyone else, and where people inherently reward hard workers and shun slackers. Unfortunately, such societies are very fragile, and coöps can usually only survive if they both maintain a narrow focus and have a means of accountability (either direct, if they're small enough, or financial, if they're larger).

Linda Ellerbee tells a great story about that.

She lived in a commune for a while during her idealistic youth. One day she needed water for the meal she was cooking, so she trudged 200 yards down a step snow-covered hill, at night, freezing her butt off, chipped through the ice over the stream, scooped out a bucket of freezing water, and trudged laboriously 200 yards back up the slippery hill with a heavy bucket of water.

When she got back inside, a guy lying on the couch watching TV glanced over at her panting, frozen visage, lazily said, "far out, man...", then turned back to stare slack-jawed at the TV.

She moved out the next morning and got a job.

158 posted on 07/09/2002 12:26:07 AM PDT by Dan Day
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To: liberallarry

Et tu, liberallarry?

LOL!

159 posted on 07/09/2002 3:41:08 AM PDT by metesky
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To: liberallarry
Now, when I read the work of commieprof I am appalled. Have things changed so much or was I merely young when I formed those opinions?

Both. You undoubtedly were filled with the typical idealism of youth, hence my earler quote about 18 and 40. More importantly, things really hae changed so much. When you were an undergraduate, most of the professors were liberals of the New Deal variety, with a few Marxists and socialists in the mix and a few conservatives. The graduate students were increasingly radical and Marxist taken as a whole. Those graduate students have spent the past 20-40 years becoming the full professors of today and raising several generations of Marxist and radical scholars. The result is what you see in commieprof, a reductio ad absurdam of the ideas you found entertaing and inventive 40 yearsa ago and the feminist and Marxist and politically correct trends I saw in graduate school some 30 years ago. The liberalism you knew 40 years ago bears the same resemblence to what currently passes for liberalism as a sailboat bears to a battleship.

160 posted on 07/09/2002 4:09:47 AM PDT by CatoRenasci
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To: Dog Gone
psst .. it's been one for years
161 posted on 07/09/2002 5:02:16 AM PDT by TxBec
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To: MeeknMing; Victoria Delsoul; philman_36; theDentist; Brownie74; 2Jedismom; pax_et_bonum; ...
So I feel sorry for the students whose parents would keep them from attending my classes or the University of Texas because of what I wrote. Don't you have faith that your children can think for themselves? Don't you trust them with a range of positions and approaches to knowledge? Haven't you prepared them to defend your family's values?

By this comment, I would guess you meant me. (I don't know who else said they would keep their kids from UT. I haven't gone back to read the rest of the comments on that thread.)

I have all the faith in the world in my kids. However, would you knowingly allow your toddler to play with matches, knowing what would happen? Of course not. Why then would you allow them to be corrupted morally? My job on this earth is to raise my children and to teach them. I am a single mom (divorced, not out of wedlock.) I read over the post made with your stance on abortion and it saddens me. I feel more sorry for the child you aborted than you should feel for my children. When do you reach the point of knowing you have enough money or maturity to have children? Raising my children is a struggle, but what isn't? Even if I knew that I would divorce after having my children, I would do it all again. My children are my joy.

I only have two kids. I was talking to a friend of mine who has 5 (she just miscarried #6 and it devastated her.) She said 5 kids keep her busy, but that two probably keep me real busy, don't they? (They do.) Another friend of ours only has one and HE keeps her real busy. My point? Kids are work no matter what.

You mentioned standing up for the poor maquiladoras, etc. I cannot believe you feel no shame in not protecting the most tiny, precious, and innocent of all beings.

162 posted on 07/09/2002 5:31:06 AM PDT by TxBec
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To: commieprof
oops. Please see #162. This was for you and I left your name off. Go figure.
163 posted on 07/09/2002 5:53:22 AM PDT by TxBec
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To: CaTexan
Get a load of this cr**, Bro! The Socialist Professor wishes to explain itself.
See article I pinged you to yesterday.
164 posted on 07/09/2002 6:13:35 AM PDT by MeekOneGOP
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To: TxBec; commieprof
LOL! Don't sweat it. I just did a search and the Commie Professor hasn't answered
even one reply to this point. Just a future Banned Disruptor/FReeper.
165 posted on 07/09/2002 6:19:43 AM PDT by MeekOneGOP
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To: MeeknMing
My son wants to register to post now (13 going on 25) :)
166 posted on 07/09/2002 6:36:04 AM PDT by TxBec
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To: commieprof
"I take my freedoms to dissent in this country very seriously."

I take the freedom to dissent seriously also. I happen to consider the things you and your kind dissent over to be frivolus "pop dissent" designed more for the deep need of the spoiled child for attention than any deeply held belief. But then I consider most Liberals to be neurotic and deeply spirtually void, not to mention destructive to a nation and a society.

Liberals, not content to break just their own toys, demand to break everyone else's also.

167 posted on 07/09/2002 6:49:49 AM PDT by MissAmericanPie
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To: VRWC_minion
I teach my children that they must suck up to the teacher to get a grade from them especially if they disagree.
you forgot the /sarcasm
I tell my kids that if the teacher tells them it's raining outside to look out the window and find out for theirself whether it is or not.
168 posted on 07/09/2002 7:12:39 AM PDT by philman_36
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To: Eaker
You have a daughter??
A daughter and an abortion apparently.
That means some male had sex with you at least once!!?!?!
Twice even!
169 posted on 07/09/2002 7:14:22 AM PDT by philman_36
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To: philman_36
you forgot the /sarcasm

No, I didn't. The teacher has the power of the grade and that grade will have an affect on their lives. Its best to suck up to the a$$hole until after you get the grade. Then later you can go back and set the record straight.

I tell my kids that if the teacher tells them it's raining outside to look out the window and find out for theirself whether it is or not.

I start my children off in questioning what I say and this leads them very naturally to question what the teacher says. But I go farther and I am aware of what papers they bring home and use them as examples for debating.

170 posted on 07/09/2002 7:32:28 AM PDT by VRWC_minion
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To: TxBec
Really? Cool! Let 'er rip, I say!
171 posted on 07/09/2002 7:37:46 AM PDT by MeekOneGOP
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To: commieprof
Thank you for posting this worthless nonsense. It gives all of us at Free Republic an opportunity to see the liberal American thought process at its worst.

172 posted on 07/09/2002 7:48:46 AM PDT by freebilly
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To: VRWC_minion
Its best to suck up to the a$$hole until after you get the grade. Then later you can go back and set the record straight.
Heeeey...sounds just like "party" politics!
I start my children off in questioning what I say and this leads them very naturally to question what the teacher says. But I go farther and I am aware of what papers they bring home and use them as examples for debating.
From your own admissions it sounds like you teach acquiescence, not a questioning attitude. How can there be debate after acquiescence?
I state things outright and then tell my kids to find out if I'm right or not. Of course, I don't state things that they can't verify on their own to be accurate.
There is no "questioning of things" at my house, especially questioning what I say. If it isn't verifiable it isn't so.
If you teach your children to "question what you say" are you leading them or leaving them to list as they will?
You've got a strange way of teaching things, but it is your choice.
173 posted on 07/09/2002 7:51:58 AM PDT by philman_36
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To: philman_36
If you teach your children to "question what you say" are you leading them or leaving them to list as they will?

Here is an example. I told my oldest son I would pay him 100.00 to do the dishes.

He does the dishes and asks for his 100.00. I tell him I will pay him 50 years from now and that he never asked me when.

After awhile my children learn to get all the facts and not make assumptions.

As for letting them list as they will, we do have a democracy and allow our children to vote. Everyone gets one vote for each year they have lived.

174 posted on 07/09/2002 8:03:09 AM PDT by VRWC_minion
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To: Always Right
A "Real Democracy" being nothing more than mob rule, Like India, always result in anarchy. Anarchy always results in less, not more freedoms, and more have nots than haves.

People, liberal socialists and downright communists, always think that when their vision of a socialistic utopia is reached that they, the elite, the good people fighting for equalities and freedom, will remain in charge of the result, retaining their postions at the top, of whatever particular elite ladder they are perched upon....gov't, media, education, economic, Corporate moguls, Unions.

But, what I wonder, are they going to do when the mob, the practicing peoples of the real democracy/anarchy thus created, topples their new democratic socialist society and they are trampled as the evil oppressors? When assassination becomes a very real political tool and riots and civil disobedience are the tools of disagreement, not discussion. When corrupt politicians are elected by mob rule, term limits abandoned and elected dictators become President. Because this is what will eventually happen.

Real democracies don't like the powerful, rich elite at the top who seem to see themselves as supperior beings knowing what is right for everyone not belonging to their elite cliques.

In our Republic they are protected, can speak on all manner of seditious, immoral, even treasonous subjects,with impunity, by the very Constitution they would demolish.

One little amendment to the constitution to do away with the electoral college and Voila...they have achieved real democracy.........it would simply be a matter of time until the people realized the power that had just been granted them and these very dogooders would be lynched in public spasms of mefirsthood.

What is really funny (peculiar not ha ha) is that this is the very quesion, the imperfectness of a democracy and the almost certain implosion in not too long a time period, that the founders of the Constitution grappled wth, gave great discussion to and having worried it to death, penned the Preamble and the Constitution of the United States of America. Followed by the Bill of Rights.

Never again in history will a group of ethical and moral men come together to form a free government more perfect than the one we have.

175 posted on 07/09/2002 8:11:00 AM PDT by wingnuts'nbolts
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To: VRWC_minion
As for letting them list as they will, we do have a democracy and allow our children to vote.
Ahhhhh...more "registered" voters.
...and to the Republic...
Like I said...You've got a strange way of teaching things, but it is your choice.
176 posted on 07/09/2002 8:15:28 AM PDT by philman_36
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To: TxBec
I think it would be great if your 13 year old participated here. We would be enlightened by his views enabling us see the world through young eyes, and he would have a learning experience money cannot buy. I encourage him to do so, with your permission and mentorship, of course.
177 posted on 07/09/2002 8:19:53 AM PDT by wingnuts'nbolts
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To: general_re
Good grief! I hand't seen her "Talking Points on Abortion". What a loon!
178 posted on 07/09/2002 8:26:29 AM PDT by FreeTally
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To: VRWC_minion
After awhile my children learn to get all the facts and not make assumptions.
An afterthought...After a while your kids are apt to "Just say no". You've proven yourself to be disingenuous from the outset, not offering up the conditions from the start like an honest broker would and should.
Kind of like the government. No wonder you've got a democracy at your house.
If you did that to me I'd call you a liar and a proponent of conditionalities.
I'm more world wise than your poor, naive children are.
179 posted on 07/09/2002 8:28:20 AM PDT by philman_36
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To: TxBec
I raised my granddaughter as a single grandmother and it was also a struggle. No sweeter child existed until puberty set in.

She made me nuts, had lousey education in CA. Fought with me about reading, my incessant telling her of things schools no longer teach, her responsibilities in life, her needing to be able to support herself as an adult, and my insisting on knowing of her whereabouts and friends at all times.

She gave me fits, sleeplessness and hives. I worked full time so I bought her a horse to take care of. She loved that animal and it did teach her responsibility.

She is now 27, married to a great guy and she is really terrific. She is a no nonsense kind of gal with a really great sense of humor, and fun to be around. She is competitive and competes in Saddle Seat horse shows nationally.

She is more conservative than I am and far more economically savvy than I was at her age. I look at her in amazement! I listen to her views and am tickled pink. She spouts things that she learned from me and my incessant teaching and really doesn't know where she learned that. It makes me so happy and gratefull that she has turned out to be someone I admire.

180 posted on 07/09/2002 8:36:37 AM PDT by wingnuts'nbolts
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To: philman_36
Ahhhhh...more "registered" voters. ...and to the Republic... Like I said...You've got a strange way of teaching things, but it is your choice.

If you will do the math you will see that our oldest daughter gets 15 votes while my wife and I have 88 votes.

181 posted on 07/09/2002 8:46:18 AM PDT by VRWC_minion
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To: philman_36
An afterthought...After a while your kids are apt to "Just say no".

Actually they learn to get all the facts first. They are not so dumb to realize that they are getting a valuable lesson.

In fact my 21 year old who has left the house thanks me for those lessons now that he is in the real world.

182 posted on 07/09/2002 8:48:45 AM PDT by VRWC_minion
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To: VRWC_minion
Still waiting for the professor to leave a SINGLE reply to all thats been said. Methinks this was just a hit and run post. Think this thread should get pulled at some point as it basically is as pointless as the "commie?"
183 posted on 07/09/2002 8:50:21 AM PDT by KantianBurke
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To: wingnuts'nbolts
Thank you! Sounds like ya did a great job!! Every now and then I catch a glimpse of my kids as adults, even though they are still kids (I'm sure you know the feeling.) I am so proud of the men they are becoming.

Now and then I can be commenting on something and they will give me an answer that warms my heart because I know they are paying attention to all the things I am trying to instill in them.

It's like that commercial....
"Mom, when I was growing up, you were the meanest, most strict mom ever. You gave me NO PRIVACY. I hated you..(etc .)..Thank you."

184 posted on 07/09/2002 8:55:43 AM PDT by TxBec
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To: commieprof
You stated that the US "controls" 60% of the worlds "wealth". There is a problem with you premise, wealth is created (continiously) it is not controlled. The economy is a process not a thing, it is dynamic (and chaotic) not static. Marxist see a fixed sized ecomnomy which is divided, whoever the size of the economy is not fixed, wealth is not static, it can and is created constantly.

You contend that our way of life isn't the key to an improved standard of living for those in poor countries, you are wrong. Property rights, and Economic Freedom are requirements for Political Freedom. With these freedoms you will have the basis for a better standard of living for the poor.

You suggested some reading materials, thanks. I would like to suggest some reading to help you understand why socialism is bankrupt and capitalism is the way to go, try "Free to Choose" by Milton Freidman and "vision of the Anointed" by Thomas Sowell.
185 posted on 07/09/2002 8:55:44 AM PDT by Leto
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To: VRWC_minion
If you will do the math you will see that our oldest daughter gets 15 votes while my wife and I have 88 votes.
So her "vote" is really worthless isn't it, always being overruled by "the majority".
186 posted on 07/09/2002 9:06:24 AM PDT by philman_36
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To: VRWC_minion
Actually they learn to get all the facts first.
Ok. If that is what they tell you they have learned who am I to question it. I'm not there.

Yet, how can I ensure that Pops is going to give me all of the facts when I ask for them?
If there are "conditions" there could be an unstated condition such as the condition that all facts will not be submitted, even when asked for.

187 posted on 07/09/2002 9:15:17 AM PDT by philman_36
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To: philman_36
So her "vote" is really worthless isn't it, always being overruled by "the majority".

Yes, but we value her input.

188 posted on 07/09/2002 9:20:46 AM PDT by VRWC_minion
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To: MeeknMing; TxBec
What a coward this CommieProf showed herself to be. She can't even bother to get back in here and defend her screed against the well thought out and intelligent FReepers.

Just like a liberal, hit and run, and tell your buddies that "you got them conservatives good".

189 posted on 07/09/2002 9:21:35 AM PDT by RikaStrom
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To: VRWC_minion
Yes, but we value her input.
I'm sure you do. Yet, does she learn that her "input" is meaningless and changes nothing?
Will she then, from your given example with teachers, suck up to the a$$hole to get what she wants or needs?
190 posted on 07/09/2002 9:28:37 AM PDT by philman_36
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To: philman_36
Yet, how can I ensure that Pops is going to give me all of the facts when I ask for them?

Just like the real world.

191 posted on 07/09/2002 9:32:58 AM PDT by VRWC_minion
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To: commieprof
Man, it must steam you to work for an organization that exists solely to make a profit. And it must simply kill you if you have tenure. (I mean, you can't even get your butt thrown out on the street in protest).

And always in the back of your simple, me-versus-the-world mind is the disturbing feeling that your students don't give a damn what you think (you already know that the outside world looks upon you with amusement), and that instead they simply want a good grade in your class so that they can graduate and buy a nice car. How frustrating that must be.

I doubt that you are very objective at all, and I suspect the above reasons are why you insist so strongly that you are open to all points of view. Color me sceptical.

192 posted on 07/09/2002 9:37:21 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: philman_36
I'm sure you do. Yet, does she learn that her "input" is meaningless and changes nothing? Will she then, from your given example with teachers, suck up to the a$$hole to get what she wants or needs?

It depends on her arguments. We have been known to change our minds but even when she knows its hopeless she is encouraged to continue arguing. We critique it as she goes along.

She is encouraged to suck up to her parents at all times but she knows it doesn't change our decisions unless she presents facts or provides add'l info.

193 posted on 07/09/2002 9:38:14 AM PDT by VRWC_minion
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To: VRWC_minion
Ok man. Like I said...You've got a strange way of teaching things, but it is your choice.
Carry on, and good luck.
194 posted on 07/09/2002 9:49:01 AM PDT by philman_36
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To: commieprof
As a socialist (not a Stalinist, and there is a difference),

Correct.

The difference between a Stalinist and a socialist is that a Stalinist knows what he is doing.

195 posted on 07/09/2002 9:53:17 AM PDT by Crusader Rabbit
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To: commieprof
Aren't we caught up with ourselves? I didn't read what you first wrote and only scanned this nonsense. What you say does not matter. You are not important. Actually, you are a waste of time. Have a nice day.
196 posted on 07/09/2002 10:01:36 AM PDT by doug from upland
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To: commieprof
I get join out out of the fact that commie scum like you will soon burn in hell!
197 posted on 07/09/2002 10:30:26 AM PDT by Conservative Chicagoan
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To: Texas_Longhorn
actually I do not favor gun control. In a crisis, I don't want the police and the state to be the only ones with guns.
198 posted on 07/09/2002 10:50:31 AM PDT by commieprof
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To: Jay W
that's pretty intelligent by way of observation. I can only go so far to mitigate against the power relationships in the classroom it's true. But my classes are not political rallies. I gave an A to the president of the Young Conservatives of Texas. My teaching evaluations reflect the impression that my classes are spaces of relative freedom for the students. Really, what I love about teaching communication is that I have a set of concepts, a tool box, that enables students to debunk arguments and evidence and identify propaganda. They can apply all the concepts to me if they like. I encourage them to do so, actually. Never fear--there are no thought police here.
199 posted on 07/09/2002 10:54:05 AM PDT by commieprof
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To: Texas_Longhorn
I like RAWA, the organization in Afghanistan. If I lived there, I'd be a member. No member of RAWA believes that U.S. bombs are freeing the women there.
200 posted on 07/09/2002 10:54:59 AM PDT by commieprof
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