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Socialist Professor Responds
7/8/02 | commieprof

Posted on 07/08/2002 4:52:12 PM PDT by commieprof

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To: The KG9 Kid
Hi all. Long time lurker, first time poster.

I found myself compelled to register because of the sheer brilliance of this post. It is at once _exactly_ right on the money (no pun intended) and scathingly funny. Sadly our socialist friend is very likely unable to see the humor and is right this very moment urgently resisting the temptation to pull the race card for reasons she can't quite grasp. It is briliantly illustrative of the core, underlying, overwhelming flaws in liberal philosophy - the same flaws that leave me slack jawed and shaking my head the more they are brought to light.

This is exactly the part of FR that I love. Razor sharp witty insight. Good show!
251 posted on 07/09/2002 5:09:22 PM PDT by OOPisforLiberals
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To: commieprof
For those that may be interested.

The Trotskyist Manifesto

Snip......

In vast areas of the planet capitalism has been overthrown, whilst to preserve it elsewhere has cost the lives of tens and even hundreds of millions in localised and world wars; famine continues to claim countless victims in a world where food "surpluses" are burned.

This testifies to the fact that capitalism has long passed from the early phase of its development, when it was a relatively progressive system, to its terminal phase when it has become absolutely reactionary--in short to the epoch in which its death agony takes place.

The question that faces humanity is whether imperialism will drag all classes into a common ruin or whether the working class can lead the exploited and oppressed into a new social order; one where democratically planned production for need based upon common ownership opens up the prospect of a classless, stateless world. The objective pre-requisites for this have long existed: technology, science, the means of production and a multi-millioned world proletariat.

Twice this century, in 1914-23 and 1939-47, capitalism has been thrown into such acute worldwide convulsions that it stared death in the face. Twice, its own rivalries and contradictions have raised up the spectre of its global defeat at the hands of the proletariat. On countless other occasions the proletariat of individual countries has sought to settle accounts decisively with its exploiters.

But, as yet, it has not found, or been able to preserve, a leadership capable of completing the task of the world revolution. Before 1914 the Socialist International did assemble a mass-based world movement of the working class, but this suffered degeneration and betrayal before it could create the centralised leadership necessary for victory in the approaching revolutionary crises.

....snip

I'll bet hopes were high when Slick Willy won in 92

252 posted on 07/09/2002 5:14:59 PM PDT by Fzob
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To: commieprof
His vision of a bottom-up, democratic socialism..

I haven't read anything by or about Trotsky that would convince me that there is much difference between him and Stalin, shades of red so to speak.

If he had taken power he might have killed marginally fewer people, but judging from his proformance during the Russian Civil War, not many.

253 posted on 07/09/2002 5:41:33 PM PDT by Little Bill
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To: commieprof
So you also admit to being a feminist? Have you no shame?
254 posted on 07/09/2002 6:09:30 PM PDT by Conservative Chicagoan
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To: Little Bill
BUMP! All communists are scum!
255 posted on 07/09/2002 6:10:27 PM PDT by Conservative Chicagoan
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To: Fzob
Exactly. This is something that many FReepers don't understand. Bush is fighting against the tide of communism that Clinton and Cloud have worked so hard for.
256 posted on 07/09/2002 6:11:45 PM PDT by Conservative Chicagoan
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To: Rodney King
LOL!
257 posted on 07/09/2002 6:12:27 PM PDT by Conservative Chicagoan
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To: Rodney King
BUMP
258 posted on 07/09/2002 6:12:44 PM PDT by Conservative Chicagoan
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To: VRWC_minion
She is an idiot!
259 posted on 07/09/2002 6:12:59 PM PDT by Conservative Chicagoan
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To: ThinkDifferent
BUMP!
260 posted on 07/09/2002 6:13:24 PM PDT by Conservative Chicagoan
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To: colorado tanker
BUMP! These types of murders don't happen in capitalist countries!
261 posted on 07/09/2002 6:14:08 PM PDT by Conservative Chicagoan
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To: ProudAmerican2
My guess is that most leftists are at least "bisexual"
262 posted on 07/09/2002 6:15:24 PM PDT by Conservative Chicagoan
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To: Area51
Where is her website?
263 posted on 07/09/2002 6:16:05 PM PDT by Conservative Chicagoan
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To: Area51
Thanks for the link!
264 posted on 07/09/2002 6:16:30 PM PDT by Conservative Chicagoan
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To: OOPisforLiberals
We're glad you're here.
It took me well over 18 months lurking to finally sign up!

Of course you realize that now you will be TOTALLY addicted to FR... :)

Cheers-
CD

265 posted on 07/09/2002 6:59:27 PM PDT by Constitution Day
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To: The KG9 Kid
Good comment indeed!! It would appear that your Sun StorEdge System could simultaneously create roughly 11 hologram Masai tribesmen to help ward off evil socialist spirits from the U. of Texas netherworld.

Indeed, good job!

Just for the record, I never thought I'd say that about Texas. You boys and gals want to take your state back?

266 posted on 07/09/2002 7:32:00 PM PDT by jumpstartme
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To: Fzob; commieprof
Twice this century, in 1914-23 and 1939-47, capitalism has been thrown into such acute worldwide convulsions that it stared death in the face. Twice, its own rivalries and contradictions have raised up the spectre of its global defeat at the hands of the proletariat. On countless other occasions the proletariat of individual countries has sought to settle accounts decisively with its exploiters.

But, as yet, it has not found, or been able to preserve, a leadership capable of completing the task of the world revolution. Before 1914 the Socialist International did assemble a mass-based world movement of the working class, but this suffered degeneration and betrayal before it could create the centralised leadership necessary for victory in the approaching revolutionary crises.

Very interesting. It is with your claim of being a Trotskyite, and this little snippet where you cast your lot with Hitler. It is refreshing to see a socialist actually claim their heritage rather than trying to make the people believe that it is the heritage of the right. Herein lies a distinction that the light of truth shines for those who bother to educate themselves. Nazis are socialists, socialists are Nazis. Communists are only slightly more bloodthirsty socialists. Again I ask, how can you be what you claim to be? Are you so self-congratulatory and delusional that you actually think that yourself and those who can believe like you do can take pure evil and make it into pure good? Or are you merely pure evil and wish to make others believe otherwise so that you may seize power?

And please dont assume that I am simple minded or stupid because I believe in the principles of right and wrong. I hold these beliefs not because I am a fundamental Christian (tho I am a non-practicing Christian), but due to more secular influences in our culture, influences that could never exist in your utopia...JFK

267 posted on 07/09/2002 10:55:31 PM PDT by BADROTOFINGER
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To: commieprof; All
You may like this ...

Is the freest country on earth moving toward totalitarian dictatorship? What were the factors that enabled the Nazis to seize power in pre-war Germany? Do those same conditions exist in America today?

These are the questions raised — and answered, with frightening clarity — by Leonard Peikoff, Ayn Rand's heir, in his powerful book The Ominous Parallels.

"We are drifting to the future, not moving purposefully," Peikoff warns. "But we are drifting as Germany moved, in the same direction, for the same kind of reason."

Some of the "ominous parallels" between pre-Hitler Germany and the United States that Peikoff identifies are: Liberals who demand public control over the use and disposal of private property — social security, more taxes, more government control over the energy industry, medicine, broadcasting, etc.

Conservatives who demand government control over our intellectual and moral life — prayer in the schools, literary censorship, government intervention in the teaching of biology, the anti-abortion movement, etc. Political parties devoid of principles or direction and moved at random by pressure groups, each demanding still more controls.

A "progressive," anti-intellectual educational system that, from kindergarten to graduate school, creates students who can't read or write — students brainwashed into the feeling that their minds are helpless and they must adapt to "society," that there is no absolute truth and that morality is whatever society says it is. A student radical movement (from the 1960's through the violent anti-nukers and ecology fanatics of today) who are, Peikoff maintains, the "pre-Hitler youth movement resurrected." The radicals are nature worshippers who attack the middle class, science, technology, and business. The rise of defiant old-world racial hatreds disguised as "ethnic-identity" movements and "affirmative action." A pervasive atmosphere of decadence, moral bankruptcy, and nihilist art accompanied by the rise of escapist mystic cults of every kind — astrology, "alternative medicine," Orientalists, extrasensory perception, etc. In an introduction to Peikoff's book, Ayn Rand describes The Ominous Parallels as, "the first book by an Objectivist philosopher other than myself" and goes on to say that, "If you do not wish to be a victim of today's philosophical bankruptcy, I recommend The Ominous Parallels as protection and ammunition. It will protect you from supporting, unwittingly, the ideas that are destroying you and the world."

In brilliantly reasoned prose, Peikoff argues that the deepest roots of German Nazism lie not in existential crises, but in ideas — not in Germany's military defeat in World War I or the economic disasters of the Weimar Republic that followed, but in the philosophy that dominated pre-Nazi Germany. Although it was mediated by crises, Peikoff demonstrates that German Nazism was the inevitable climax of a centuries-long philosophic development, preaching three fundamental ideas: the worship of unreason, the demand for self-sacrifice and the elevation of society or the state above the individual.

"These ideas," Peikoff says, "are the essence of Nazism and they are exactly what our leading universities are now spreading throughout this country. This is the basic cause of all the other parallels."

268 posted on 07/10/2002 5:57:23 PM PDT by freeforall
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To: commieprof
Dear Commieprof

Help me out here. Please. What country(s) (nation-state), if any, do you think do things the right way? I am trying to imagine (ala J. Lennon) what a country would look like if based on your beliefs. If, currently, there are no countries in the world that you find "acceptable/passable", please let me know the ones that come closest.

Your obediant prole,

parsy.



269 posted on 07/10/2002 6:08:09 PM PDT by parsifal
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To: commieprof
I am, as someone here correctly observed, a Trotskyist.

Somebody in my family, very particularly, refers to himself as a Trotskyite.

270 posted on 07/11/2002 12:39:36 PM PDT by Nebullis
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To: commieprof
I guess we won't be debating any time soon.

Hitler was a socialist

271 posted on 07/13/2002 11:10:49 AM PDT by freeforall
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To: The KG9 Kid
Excellent illustration of the ZERO-SUM FALLACY (i.e., the erroneous belief that there is a finite PIE of wealth in the world, and that any possession of a greater SLICE of wealth by some can come only at the expense of others.)

So far there has been no response from commieprof. When you question these people's dogmas, they snap into insulted silence (or report you to the neighborhood kapo if they are in power).
272 posted on 07/13/2002 11:36:35 AM PDT by tictoc
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To: tictoc
Try this ;if the rich get richer and the poor get poorer where does the money come from when the poor lack that which makes the rich richer.
273 posted on 07/13/2002 12:22:17 PM PDT by freeforall
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To: commieprof
"If you cherish the freedoms of the United States, it would be hypocritical of you to be intolerant of the expression of opinions that differ from yours."

It was the founding fathers "intolerance" towards Britain's government that gave us our Democratic republic in the first place.

It is intolerance to murdering babies that will save their lives.

It is intolerance to radical regimes that will give their citizens freedom.

It is intolerance to this socialbabble that will keep us free and sovereign.

It is intolerance to professors such as this who are on the dole of the taxpayers who use their time against the taxpayers.

It is intolerance toward radical islam that will win the war on terror.

It is blind tolerance that allowed us to get into the situation that we are in. Tolerance of radical homosexual agendas, radical enviro policies, abortion, moral relativity and tolerence of leftists as they try to silence us through intimidation and demand that we are tolerant.

The only tolerance that we should show, is when other views do not try to take from us the freedoms that we are assured through the constitution. When others as part of their agenda demand us to accept immorality, illegality, and irresponsibility then we must stand up and become intolerant.
274 posted on 07/13/2002 12:49:32 PM PDT by ODDITHER
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To: Cacique; Dutchy; Hobsonphile; firebrand; rmlew
Ping for interesting read. Cacique, are they all this bad at univ now? What a shame.
275 posted on 07/13/2002 1:05:54 PM PDT by Black Agnes
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To: freeforall
Try this ;if the rich get richer and the poor get poorer where does the money come from when the poor lack that which makes the rich richer.

I'm having a hard time figuring out whether you are being sarcastic, or asserting the truth of the zero-sum fallacy, or getting at something else.

276 posted on 07/13/2002 1:26:05 PM PDT by tictoc
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To: commieprof
There is enough food produced every year to feed everyone 54 times over--most of it is dumped in the ocean because it wouldn't get a profit on the market.

Well, I doubt that "54 times" statistic, but I'll give it a pass for now... and I'll assume that you do not think that massive quantities of food are literally dumped off of a boat into the ocean (Greenpeace would have a conniption fit, LOL). I want to address the last line of the post.

That's our system's sick set of priorities.

Our systems single most important, significant, and historic priority is to give the individual the Freedom to produce as he sees fit. This was never tried in 6000 years of recorded history. The results are blazingly obvious. Those Western nations who have followed our example are miraculously short of famines, plagues, rampant inefficiency, etc. Those who have not are still floundering, and are somehow unable to feed themselves and unable to survive financially without Western aid, grants, and relief. Do you see this as a coinsidence?

Allow me to give you the clearest example of the inherent impossibility of success in the Socialist model. Oklahoma State University was working closely with Ethiopia in the 1950's, and the nations quickly became a net food exporter, overcoming famine, creating wealth, and even helping other African nations to feed their people. In the 1960's the Socialists took power, and the people of the region have never recovered. Millions are dead of starvation, billions of dollars of assets and wealth are consumed and never replaced, and they have never once produced the same tonnages that they did 50 years ago. This happens EVERY time Socialists enforce the "compassion" on populations. The ONLY reason some Socialism-leaning Western nations (like France) do not collapse is that they have enough of our "sick" priorities and allow the more motivated parts of the population to evade or circumvent national planning schemes and actually be productive... in SPITE of Socialism, and NEVER because of it.

It is sad that a college professor would so willfully ignore History and the plain lessons that it imparts.

With this in mind, which set of priorities is "sick"? The society that enforces a system that keeps people from producing enough to feed its people, or the system that is SO good at letting its people produce a surplus that they can voluntarily (aka, "freely") choose to waste food as they see fit?

277 posted on 07/13/2002 1:39:38 PM PDT by Teacher317
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To: tictoc
I usually put on the sarcasm mode but it was absent today.The point partly serious though is "the truth of the zero-sum fallacy".This Marxist fantasy is repeated over and over but all I see around me are "poor" people with phones,cars etc and they are living better than kings in years past.
278 posted on 07/13/2002 1:45:40 PM PDT by freeforall
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To: Black Agnes
In response to your question. This professor seems to be relatively mild. What we used to call in my former Stalinist circles as a useful fool. There are others who are much more radical and unpretentious about things like the necessary mass murder that will have to take place once the socialist takeover takes place. Dana would find himself among the first to be shot (provided a more efficient method of extermination is not found). What Stalinists cannot stand besides Troskyist revisionists is mushy left wing liberals who harp about compassion. As Lenin aptly stated you can't make omelettes without breaking eggs. Or as Stalin so aptly noted "one death is a tragedy, 50,000 is a statistic".

Pure socialists are not interested in the individual but in reaching the ideal, even if this means the eventual liquidation of upwards of 90% of the population to remove them from the gene pool. After all, that is what being a member of the elite revolutionary vanguard means. Dana is obviously conversant in cliches and slogans. In the end they are good for propaganda for the masses. Unfortunately Dana actually believes his line of BS. I assume he has never met commited Stalinist leftists more conversant in the theoretical aspects of the class struggle and how to go about achieviong absolute power.

We can all take comfort in the knowledge that when my former Stalinist colleagues take over, it will be people like Dana who will be shot first. The Mensheviks have obviously never learned anything from history. All they do is pave the way and like all good cannon fodder lose out in the end.

279 posted on 07/13/2002 6:59:56 PM PDT by Cacique
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To: commieprof
Dana Cloud is the symptom - Liberalism is the disease.

As an academic, she has never earned an honest day's wage in the real world. Having no sense of the origins of capital, she is simply not credible attacking greed and the capitalist system that pays to pad her rather fat rump.

Instead, she is the shameless hypocrite that defines Socialism.

Want to help the world? Give them all your money, and leave America to Americans.

Disgusting creep!

280 posted on 07/13/2002 7:26:17 PM PDT by Enduring Freedom
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To: commieprof
We are still waiting...JFK
281 posted on 07/14/2002 3:15:59 AM PDT by BADROTOFINGER
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