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[Austin, TX] Church leaders accused in beating -- Boy in intensive care with kidney failure
The Houston Chronicle ^ | July 9, 2002 | Armando Villafranca

Posted on 07/09/2002 7:10:44 AM PDT by Illbay

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To: MeeknMing; Illbay
Taylor said the beating lasted 90 minutes, during which the boy was allowed to use the bathroom one time. The boy told his family the Thompsons turned up a radio to drown out his screams.

Holy Mary Mother of God. Somebody forgot his lithium that day.

Question for ya-- playing devil's advocate here, Illbay-- were there any other witnesses besides the boy? Any corroboration to his story? Cops should check into this as a routine measure, make sure he didn't have the sh!t beaten out of him by the local crips and bloods or something...

101 posted on 07/09/2002 10:41:08 AM PDT by maxwell
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To: OBAFGKM
Sorry, Pete. AB's got a point. If the statistics comparing "most important religious groups" are correct, then there must be at least 4.7 times as many Catholics in the world as there are Protestants.

Maybe I am a little thick today, but I don't see where you get your 4.7 number from the growth rates.

But it's impossible to make that consistent with the claimed Christian growth rate since 1970. You're the actuary -- work it out for yourself.

The Christian growth rate data is for Evangelicals only (I mentioned the unfortunate title choice in a prior post). Note the 7.5% figure for 2001, which lines up with the numbers shown in the "Important Religious Groups" chart.

Frankly, the statistics are likely constructed of whole cloth.

There is always that chance so a second source would come in handy. I was able to find a second source at http://www.religioustolerance.org/worldrel.htm. I think you would agree that these folks have a slightly different agenda than the original source I posted above. Here is what they have to say:

Within Christianity, not all denominations have the same growth rate. Some annual growth rates are:

Pentecostals: 8.1%
Evangelicals: 5.4%;
All Protestants: 3.3%
Roman Catholics and Others: 1.3%

Note that the original source combined Pentecostals and Evangelicals and here there are shown separately. While I don't have the counts to use as weights, the 7.5% shown in the original source is reasonably consistent with some blend of 5.4% and 8.1% shown above. While the other categories don't match exactly, they are reasonably consistent.

Having said all that, my intention in posting the data in the first place was to illustrate that the evangelical population is NOT decreasing. The data I have referenced supports that. If anyone can find data showing a decrease in the evangelical population, I would be happy to review it.

102 posted on 07/09/2002 10:41:14 AM PDT by Pete
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To: Minnesoootan
"but I guess that is my right to be the exact opposite of your quick conviction."

Given the information we have any reasonable person would believe the pastor and his brother did it. For you to imply that we should jump to the conclusion (as you did) that the step father did it is absurd. If you have information other than what is in the article, perhaps you would care to share it?

103 posted on 07/09/2002 10:42:41 AM PDT by monday
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To: strela
Your anger is getting in the way of your reasoning ability.

Yeah, I would think that the boy's family would want to find the thugs who beat their son. A pity that the rest of the congregation apparently won't help the police track them down though.

You must have proof for such an accusatory statement. I must have missed the part in the article that they are in hiding to be "tracked down"--can you point it out for me, please?

104 posted on 07/09/2002 10:44:01 AM PDT by stands2reason
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To: monday
If you were to read my posts in a "reasonable" manor the same way people should read news articles,you will see I am basically being the devils advocate,read all the posts,every one.

If they found the priest with a bloody stick and soiled sheets on a bed and they all matched the boys DNA/blood sample,I wouldn't even be on this thread.

read #63 to see where I am coming from.

105 posted on 07/09/2002 10:50:09 AM PDT by Minnesoootan
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To: strela
And, the next time somebody bashes Islam (or Buddhism or any other non-Christian religion) for the actions of a tiny minority of its followers, I expect to see you letting them have it with both barrels.

Didn't you read ANY of the replies to your first post on this thread? The two are not analogous situations.

106 posted on 07/09/2002 10:54:48 AM PDT by maxwell
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To: Illbay
There's a certain percentage of professed "Christians" (of various denominations) who are kooky "control freaks" obsessed with punishment. A psychological disorder of some type. Sadistic tendencies. Unfortunate, but, like with unbalanced types who beat their wives or children, such things happen. Has little to do with authentic Christian witness, obviously.
107 posted on 07/09/2002 11:37:35 AM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: Pete
"...I don't see where you get your 4.7 number from the growth rates."

Its the smallest possible ratio of Catholics to Protestants given the claimed growth rates for Catholics, Protestants, Evangelicals, and "All Christians." You have to assume that the number of Evangelicals is 0, because any other non-negative number makes the ratio even larger.

If "Christian growth rate" refers to Evangelicals only, then the same table claims that there were 899 million of them last year. That would be about 1 out of every 2 Christians. I don't believe it, and in any event, its inconsistent with the statistics in the other table. "Christian growth rate" really does mean Christians of any stripe.

Thanks for the link to the religious tolerance site! There are some problems with their statistics, too (e.g., the % of Christians can't be dropping given the numbers cited, and there are over 50 million Shintoists in Japan), but I bookmarked it anyway.

Sorry if I sounded flip earlier, but I sometimes get put out when I see claims made on the basis of statistics that don't pass a cursory sanity check. I agree with you on the growth of Evangelicals.

108 posted on 07/09/2002 11:49:24 AM PDT by OBAFGKM
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To: Illbay
The alternative would be to have a law, and try to have the government decide who is a Christian and who isn't, and no one wants that.

Jesus said to let the false ("tares") grow together with the good wheat until the harvest at the end of the world. At that time, He says, the angels will gather the wheat into the Lord's barns, but will bind the tares into bundles to be burned.

No matter how many tares you can see, there is plenty of good wheat there too, to be sure.

109 posted on 07/09/2002 11:58:03 AM PDT by crystalk
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To: Pete
Those statistics may be only for the USA, or only for the Western Hemisphere. Just maybe, they have some validity for the world, but require explanation. It is true, though, that Evangelical and Pentecostal sects are growing much faster even than Mormons, whose vaunted growth proves to be almost entirely from procreation: their numerous converts are balanced by large numbers leaving through the back doors.

BTW I am an actuary too, though have not practiced as such for many years...

This "pastor" at age 23 probably is rather self-proclaimed. It was never stated that he held valid ordination from any organized denomination of Christians. This boy will recover from his physical injuries, and I hope goes on to maturity in Christ. As to his assailants, we could only hope that they repent and turn to the Lord too. He is able to forgive and cleanse them of sin if they will turn to Him.

110 posted on 07/09/2002 12:07:26 PM PDT by crystalk
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To: Pete
Oh BTW, there are almost exactly 4.7 times as many Catholic and Orthodox Christians in the entire world, as there are Protestants.

Estimates for 2000 have only 289 million Protestants, but some 1.3 million Catholics and Orthodox. Of course, the latter are far more generous and liberal in who they will include, namely almost everyone baptized in them at birth is counted for life, while most Protestant groups count only adults, and delete those who disappear or apostasize, or join other religions...

111 posted on 07/09/2002 12:10:46 PM PDT by crystalk
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To: crystalk
That is 1.3 BILLION, of course. Typo.
112 posted on 07/09/2002 12:12:27 PM PDT by crystalk
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To: RGSpincich
FWIW, I heard on the radio news at about 2:00 PM this afternoon, that arrest warrants had been issued for the Thompsons.
113 posted on 07/09/2002 1:04:47 PM PDT by Illbay
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To: Minnesoootan
Arrest warrants have been issued.
114 posted on 07/09/2002 1:05:38 PM PDT by Illbay
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To: Taliesan
Actually, "charismatic" is a description of the worship style,...

Whatever the original meaning might have been, it has morphed into a belief that authoritarian leaders and strict regimentation are the way to God.

115 posted on 07/09/2002 1:07:12 PM PDT by Illbay
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To: OBAFGKM
Just curious -- did they do snakes?

No snakes, and no weird outfits or anything. But they held to a lot of Old Testament stuff, like the Sabbath being on Saturday (and anyone who said differently was d*mned), no eating pork, minister had to approve of marriages, no makeup for women, no musical instruments except for tambourines (iow nothing that the Bible didn't expressly mention), men and women sit separately during worship, "shunning" practiced against people who don't conform--this happened to my S-in-L since she married outside the "faith" even though my bro. is a Christian, etc.

116 posted on 07/09/2002 1:11:04 PM PDT by Illbay
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To: OBAFGKM
Just curious -- did they do snakes?

No snakes, and no weird outfits or anything. But they held to a lot of Old Testament stuff, like the Sabbath being on Saturday (and anyone who said differently was d*mned), no eating pork, minister had to approve of marriages, no makeup for women, no musical instruments except for tambourines (iow nothing that the Bible didn't expressly mention), men and women sit separately during worship, "shunning" practiced against people who don't conform--this happened to my S-in-L since she married outside the "faith" even though my bro. is a Christian, etc.

117 posted on 07/09/2002 1:11:30 PM PDT by Illbay
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Comment #118 Removed by Moderator

To: maxwell
Arrest warrants were issued a couple of hours ago for the Thompsons.
119 posted on 07/09/2002 1:17:16 PM PDT by Illbay
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To: monday
The police are now looking for the Thompsons, to arrest them on this charge. I can only assume that they have looked into this and have found "probable cause" to believe the Thompsons did indeed do this.

Anything's possible, but this ISN'T that complicated a case, since the boy is alive and able to talk. And I don't know but must suppose that the police investigation might have turned up any evidence he was lying.

Tawana Brawley didn't stand up too long under police scrutiny, for example.

120 posted on 07/09/2002 1:19:41 PM PDT by Illbay
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To: maxwell
Holy Mary Mother of God. Somebody forgot his lithium that day.

Nope. This wasn't insanity. This was pure, unadulterated EE-VIL. Turning up the radio shows that the Thompsons knew that what they were doing was morally heinous.

Hanging is too good for such trash.

121 posted on 07/09/2002 1:21:41 PM PDT by Poohbah
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To: ChristianSoldierAmerica
I wonder what you would have said had I posted that they were "Muslim Imams" heading an "Islamic mosque"?
122 posted on 07/09/2002 1:21:42 PM PDT by Illbay
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To: Illbay
that arrest warrants had been issued for the Thompsons.

Yep. Git a rope.

Brothers may have attorney arrange surrender

Looks like the "pastors" know that they are in deep stuff and are hiding.

123 posted on 07/09/2002 1:22:26 PM PDT by RGSpincich
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Comment #124 Removed by Moderator

To: Illbay
The police are now looking for the Thompsons, to arrest them on this charge. I can only assume that they have looked into this and have found "probable cause" to believe the Thompsons did indeed do this.

Fair enough.

125 posted on 07/09/2002 1:24:27 PM PDT by maxwell
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To: RGSpincich
Yep. Git a rope.

I done said that hangin' is too good for this sort of trash. We need a truck dragging, followed by leaving the body out in the open--hey, buzzards gotta eat, too.

I am just absolutely enraged by this.

126 posted on 07/09/2002 1:25:42 PM PDT by Poohbah
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To: ChristianSoldierAmerica
Why use Muslims as an example?

Would you accuse the victim of being money-hungry if this act were performed at a mosque by an imam?

127 posted on 07/09/2002 1:27:00 PM PDT by Poohbah
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
There's a certain percentage of professed "Christians" (of various denominations) who are kooky "control freaks" obsessed with punishment. A psychological disorder of some type. Sadistic tendencies. Unfortunate, but, like with unbalanced types who beat their wives or children, such things happen. Has little to do with authentic Christian witness, obviously.

Yep, there are control freaks of all varying degrees within religious circles. That chaps my Republican a$$ when somebody gets up and goes on some big ol' ego trip-- cause that's all it is, plain and simple-- and gets hundreds, maybe thousands, to devote their lives to his teachings and interpretations.

Somebody said above that this is what happens when Christians don't interpret the Holy Scriptures for themselves, when they rely entirely on whoever is in the pulpit... Folks should think before signing their lives away to a mere mortal... I guess it's alot less mental work just to take somebody's word for it, that THIS is how you get yer happy a$$ through the pearly gates.

I don't buy. I think the road to Hell is paved with the carcasses of "Christians". I also think that there are many, many different paths to Heaven, and everybody takes his own trip...

129 posted on 07/09/2002 1:32:22 PM PDT by maxwell
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To: Illbay
Thanks for the info...now we can see what truth comes out.
130 posted on 07/09/2002 1:35:47 PM PDT by Minnesoootan
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To: Poohbah
buzzards gotta eat, too

What've you got agin' buzzards?

131 posted on 07/09/2002 1:38:10 PM PDT by RGSpincich
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To: ChristianSoldierAmerica
Wow. You are desperate to make excuses for some people.
132 posted on 07/09/2002 1:38:53 PM PDT by Poohbah
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To: maxwell
Unfortunately (and keep in mind, I am a professing "Christian") some people get the idea that the Bible is a license or weapon to vent all of their frustrations and anger at other people, however trivial the issue involved.

The emphasis on Hell and damnation that some people get obsessed with (and it does trigger a variety of neurotic or psychotic reactions in the mentally unbalanced) gives some kooky types the idea that they have an opportunity to begin the punishment (permitted to God for the great beyond) here and now. Strange phenomenon, but it does exist among unbalanced types, certain control freaks, sadists, etc. You find similar phenomena among Communists,Nazis, and members of other non-Christian cults or ideologies. It's a psychological syndrome. I can't stand when people present this in a Christian context.

133 posted on 07/09/2002 1:46:38 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: Squantos
I used to have to go pick my own switch. Cruel beyond words. Once or twice is all it took. 8^)
136 posted on 07/09/2002 1:53:33 PM PDT by My back yard
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
I can't stand when people present this in a Christian context.

It's a betrayal of the faith, really, is what it is-- a betrayal of the worst kind. Pedophilic priests are committing the same transgression. Surely Christ had these people in mind when he made his "millstones" comment...

137 posted on 07/09/2002 1:59:23 PM PDT by maxwell
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To: maxwell
Control freaks and sadists just do nothing to advance spiritual philosophies. Too stupid to see the folly and insanity of their demented ways, one would guess.
138 posted on 07/09/2002 2:41:13 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: maxwell
I do believe that such clouds have silver linings. I think that it is sobering a whole lot of Christians to the fact that words mean nothing compared to deeds (unless, of course, you are a liberal, but so few of them are Christians anyway, in my opinion).

It is time to clean house, if you truly fear God and desire justice.

Despite what others here might think, if people like this were delivered to "true" Christians for justice, I suspect the punishment would be more sure and swift than otherwise. I do believe that "true" Christians, hungering and thirsting for truth as they do, desire justice like they desire water and air.

139 posted on 07/09/2002 2:55:51 PM PDT by Illbay
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To: maxwell
I also think that there are many, many different paths to Heaven, and everybody takes his own trip...

I take it you have a different interpretation of John 14:6 and I John 5:11-13.

140 posted on 07/09/2002 3:25:01 PM PDT by DrewsDad
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To: Illbay
I'll bet some others like Kevin Curry can come up with more.

I know of none.

141 posted on 07/09/2002 5:03:03 PM PDT by Kevin Curry
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
You find similar phenomena among Communists,Nazis, and members of other non-Christian cults or ideologies.

E.g., atheists. Over one-hundred million were brutally murdered in the unholy name of atheism in the 20th Century alone.

That total doesn't include aborted children.

I am a very conservative Christian. I have never physically beaten my children--ever. I have never had to do anything more than give any one of them a swift swat on a well-diapered rear with an open hand, and then only two or three times total.

My children are well-behaved, well-adjusted, and cheerful. And they are devout as well.

142 posted on 07/09/2002 5:10:56 PM PDT by Kevin Curry
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To: Kevin Curry
That total doesn't include aborted children. 142 posted on 7/9/02 5:10 PM Pacific by Kevin Curry

Excellent point. Plenty of sick control freaks among suburban liberals. Some exterminate their own children. We just don't need pathological sadists or anal-retentive control freaks with violent tendencies masquerading as professional Christians. Gives us a bad name.

143 posted on 07/09/2002 5:14:52 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: My back yard
I used to have to go pick my own switch. Cruel beyond words. Once or twice is all it took.

I was "allowed" to do that, once. When I returned with a twig, Mom went out and cut her own switch then applied it to my backside. (Hey, I thought the twig thing was funny at the time - Mom failed to see the humor).

144 posted on 07/09/2002 6:05:34 PM PDT by strela
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To: stands2reason
You must have proof for such an accusatory statement.

Did they not teach the definition of the word "apparently" at your school? In my town, the pastors/priests/rabbis are well known in the community and pretty darned easy to find. The fact that arrest warrants had to be issued in an attempt to find these thugs makes it clear to any thinking person that the police are apparently not getting a lot of cooperation from the flock in finding these wayward "shepherds".

145 posted on 07/09/2002 6:09:39 PM PDT by strela
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To: maxwell
The two are not analogous situations.

Yes, they are.

146 posted on 07/09/2002 6:10:32 PM PDT by strela
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To: strela
You know nothing of Islam and apparently less of Christianity--hence your molasses-thick mental and moral confusion and absurd conflation of the two.
147 posted on 07/09/2002 7:54:06 PM PDT by Kevin Curry
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To: strela
Authentic Christianity does not tolerate such violence; authentic Islam not only tolerates--it commands it.

Peaceful and nonviolent Muslims are peaceful and nonviolent despite their religion--not because of it. Peaceful and nonviolent Christians are peaceful and nonviolent because of their religion--not despite it.

Muhammad freely murdered entire cities of men, women, and children to establish his religion. Jesus Christ healed the sick, restored eyesight to the blind, loved the children, and and allowed violent men to put him to death.

Now whose example were the men who beat this boy emulating--Muhammad or Jesus Christ?

Don't pop an artery in your frontal lobe pondering an answer to the question. It's really quite simple and straightforward.

148 posted on 07/09/2002 8:03:45 PM PDT by Kevin Curry
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To: Kevin Curry
You know nothing of Islam and apparently less of Christianity--hence your molasses-thick ...

SLAP!!

Yeah yeah, so's your ma.

Come back and post when you've got something to contribute besides petulant ad hominem.

149 posted on 07/09/2002 8:08:22 PM PDT by strela
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To: Kevin Curry
Authentic Christianity does not tolerate such violence;

(snicker)

Tell it to the Incas, Mayans, and southern blacks who were lynched by the hundreds by those good ol' Christian boys.

Jesus Christ healed the sick, restored eyesight to the blind, loved the children ...

Nice to know that at least a few Catholic clergy are following in the footsteps of Jesus Christ, wot? And yes, that was a cheap shot.

150 posted on 07/09/2002 8:13:56 PM PDT by strela
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