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Could Mr. Right be white? [Black women choosing white men]
Atlanta Journal-Constitution ^ | 7/13/2

Posted on 07/13/2002 4:41:51 PM PDT by NativeNewYorker

"No, she didn't. . . ."

Natasha Bailey hears the whispered scorn. She spots the dirty looks on the streets. She listens to the lectures from her friends.

The 23-year-old Bailey is an ebony-hued woman with dreads, a baby doll voice and a love of African culture so strong that she joined a West African rites of passage society.

But she's a traitor to some because she's dating Jason Walker, a 22-year-old white man. How could she, her friends ask, given how white men have treated black people.

"I'm the first one to say, OK, let's look at the history," the Atlanta resident says. "But to take that and put that on a person that's right here and now, I can't do that. That's unfair to that person. I judge them as they come."

Bailey represents a quiet revolution taking place among some black women. For years, they've complained about the shortage of eligible black men. Now they're no longer content to vent on "Oprah." If Mr. Right happens to be white, more are willing to cross the color line.

"I'm not going to sit on a porch in a rocking chair, all alone at 80 years old because of color," says Wanda Dunn, a 37-year-old Stone Mountain Web designer. "I don't see it as a turning away from black men but as expanding my options."

When it comes to interracial dating, people have traditionally focused on the taboo nature of black men dating white women. Yet statistics show that more black women are becoming involved with white men.

According to the U.S. Census Bureau, the number of black female/white male marriages remained relatively static between 1960 and 1980, increasing from 26,000 to 27,000. But by 2000, the number had jumped to 80,000.

Images of black women pairing with white men are now common in popular culture as well. Commercials and music videos are full of such couples. Halle Berry recently won an Oscar for her controversial role in "Monster's Ball," a film in which she plays a waitress who becomes involved with a white man. Berry also played the girlfriend of a white man in another film, "Swordfish." And Angela Basset played the girlfriend of Robert De Niro in "The Score."

Changing the script

The reasons driving black women to flip the dating script are varied. Some of it is simple exposure. Social divisions along color lines remain, but they aren't as rigid. Black women find themselves more in contact with white men in school, at the office and in social settings.

Janice Flowers is the Atlanta coordinator with Pre-Dating Events, a national company that schedules mixers for professionals. She says more black women are telling her that they're willing to date white men.

"Because we're so used to seeing them in social situations, it's becoming less of a taboo," she says.

The reason most often cited, though, for the change in dating attitudes is demographics. A disproportionate number of black men are in jail, or are murder victims. One in every 20 black men older than 18 is in prison, the 2000 Human Rights Watch report concluded. Black teenage males are seven times more likely to be murdered than white teenage males, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported.

The result is that black women face a marriage squeeze. According to the Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies in Washington, the percentage of black women who are married declined from 62 percent in 1950 to 36 percent in 2000.

Melanie Robinson, 29, says many black men know the numbers favor them so they have less incentive to treat a black woman well.

"They have their options, so they can pick and choose," the Marietta resident says. "I've just found that there is a lack of appreciation of black women in Atlanta. We come a dime a dozen here."

Robinson, who has dated three white men, says they're more romantic and willing to go on dates like walking in the park or visiting a museum.

"I haven't found any black men trying to take me to the museum," she says. "I wish they would make an effort other than, 'Let's go and have a drink' or 'Let's go to the Red Lobster for all-you-can-eat crab legs on Monday.' "

Another complaint about black men involves insecurity. Black beauty-shop conversations ring with the same complaints from black women who say many black men can't handle an independent, professional black woman who often has more formal education than they do.

At least 60 percent of blacks who get awarded college degrees are women, according to the Journal of Blacks in Higher Education.

Flowers, the Atlanta coordinator with Pre-Dating Events, says a black man backed out of a relationship with her after she purchased a home and he learned that she had a college degree, something he had not earned.

"He said I didn't need him," she says. "It blew me away. I never could get him to see that [his lack of a college degree] was not a hindrance to me."

Black men have traditionally shrugged off these criticisms from black women, saying they are too demanding or obsessed with status and money.

"Even though the numbers may be in Atlanta men's favor, that doesn't make black women in Atlanta any less choosy," says Keith Aikens, a 36-year-old single black man. "Men still have to do a lot to prove themselves worthy."

Aikens, of College Park, says he sympathizes with black women who complain black men don't take them on cultural outings, such as to a museum.

"On the other hand," he says, "how many women are suggesting a museum instead of simply giving in and moving on to the next guy?"

Not an easy road

Once black women begin dating white men, though, hurdles remain. Many of them are internal.

Some wonder if a white man can really understand them, and the effects of racism. Will they draw a blank stare at the first mention of P-funk, nappy hair and playing the dozens?

Bailey has sifted through those fears with Walker and concluded they're overrated. She's had in-depth discussions about slavery, the light skin vs. dark skin caste system among blacks -- all with Walker, a white man.

"I've dated a lot of black men and they don't understand me, either," says Bailey, who is a published writer and a temp worker. "It's all about what you've read, what you've studied. I've dated people who have no understanding of the Middle Passage, colorism, any sort of understanding of the black experience. And they were black."

Sometimes, Bailey added, the fact that a white man is an outsider can be an asset. Often black men succumb to European ideas of beauty, but not her boyfriend. Once, she says, Walker turned to her while she was reading and said, "Your hair looks so beautiful."

"He pierced through my fears and my issues that have to do with blackness," she says. "From my past dealings with brothers, Jason has been more willing and open to see that I am beautiful as is."

Despite the harassment they sometimes get, Bailey says most people don't give her a problem when she accompanies her boyfriend in public.

"We'll get an occasional nasty look, but for the next two looks we get like that, we get a lot of those, 'Oh, look, a happy couple,' " Bailey says.

Yet Robinson, the Marietta resident, voices a fear that black women often have with dating white men. They wonder if white men's interest in dating is driven by sexual curiosity.

"White guys find us exotic," she says. "They want to know how we [have sex], but they aren't going to take us home."

Bailey, however, doesn't worry about those sexual stereotypes driving her relationship with Walker.

"The gist of it is, if we remove sex, we still work," she says about their relationship.

Walker, a computer programmer, says that dating a black woman has made him more sensitive. He often attends reggae clubs with Bailey where he is the only white person in the room.

"It's different being the odd man out," he says. "Actually, what goes through my mind is, I wonder if that's what it's like for her being on the other side of the table."

Even after black women have taken the big step and married a white man, some still wrestle with a residue of guilt. Nicole Smith, a Los Angeles actress, has been married to a white man since 1999. She and her husband, Geoff Cunningham, made a movie about interracial dating, "Rocky Road."

Smith says her sister threatened to never speak to her again after she heard about the marriage. Now her sister has changed after seeing how well her marriage works.

"My sister said that she dreams of having a relationship like ours," Smith says. "That was huge."

Still, Smith sometimes questions if she's being true to her black identity. "I question how much of a conscious black woman I am," she says. "I always keep that dialogue going."

Bailey doesn't appear to have those questions now. She's in love. She says she's decided that compatibility, not color, is what's ultimately important in her relationship.

"I've always understood that you can love your heritage and live your heritage," she says. "But that doesn't mean you close off the rest of the world, especially when you're dealing with matters of love."


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: darwin; race
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1 posted on 07/13/2002 4:41:51 PM PDT by NativeNewYorker
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To: NativeNewYorker
No protest from me. Bring on the sista's!!!!
2 posted on 07/13/2002 4:46:22 PM PDT by zarf
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To: zarf
Most inter-race couples I see here in Sodom are black men with white women. They are fairly common, and outnumber the obverse easily 10:1.

White man - oriental woman couples out number the obverse by about 5:1.

Just my observations, in Manhattan.

3 posted on 07/13/2002 4:49:59 PM PDT by NativeNewYorker
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To: Texaggie79
'Let's go to the Red Lobster for all-you-can-eat crab legs on Monday.'

Haha!

4 posted on 07/13/2002 4:50:24 PM PDT by Sir Gawain
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To: NativeNewYorker
You talking ta me?


5 posted on 07/13/2002 4:50:31 PM PDT by dennisw
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To: NativeNewYorker
This is new? I saw an episode on this same exact theme on Donahue -- 20 years ago!
6 posted on 07/13/2002 4:57:58 PM PDT by Commie Basher
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To: NativeNewYorker
"I haven't found any black men trying to take me to the museum," she says. "I wish they would make an effort other than, 'Let's go and have a drink' or 'Let's go to the Red Lobster for all-you-can-eat crab legs on Monday.' "

Too funny. I guess I know where I'm going Monday night. I love crab legs.

There is definitely a double standard at work with interracial couples. A black man dates a white women and it doesn't even raise an eyebrow anymore. But if a white man dates a black woman, there is a lot of hostility from black men. Personally, I find black women just as attractive as white women. If I wasn't married, I'd consider a date with someone like Condi Rice in a heartbeat.

7 posted on 07/13/2002 5:02:11 PM PDT by SamAdams76
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To: NativeNewYorker
He often attends reggae clubs with Bailey where he is the only white person in the room.

I guess Atlanta is different. The one's I've seen are full of white druggies and airheads, maybe a couple of Jamaicans amazed at the scene in the corner. Plus the Jamaicans bathe.

8 posted on 07/13/2002 5:04:02 PM PDT by Shermy
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To: NativeNewYorker
I don't see it in Texas, either. Plenty of white women, black men. None of the other.
9 posted on 07/13/2002 5:05:06 PM PDT by gcruse
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To: NativeNewYorker
One of the nicest "activity partners" I ever had was a black woman.

Like someone posted above: "Bring on the sisters.. Yeah!"

10 posted on 07/13/2002 5:08:08 PM PDT by Jhoffa_
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To: NativeNewYorker
"colorism"

Now that is one ism that I have missed. In an otherwise interesting subject, this one came along and ruined it for me.
11 posted on 07/13/2002 5:11:35 PM PDT by billhilly
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The 23-year-old Bailey ....dating Jason Walker, a 22-year-old white man

CRADLE ROBBER!!!

12 posted on 07/13/2002 5:12:15 PM PDT by KneelBeforeZod
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To: NativeNewYorker
I took a black co worker to lunch one time in Montgomery,Al and found out just what black men think. I was ridiculed by a group of black guys and so was she, a fight almost started. People don't hardly blink anymore at the sight of a black man with a white woman. Don't believe me...just try it...ask a black gal to lunch if you are a white guy and you will see curious stares from whites and hateful glares from blacks.
13 posted on 07/13/2002 5:16:22 PM PDT by chasio649
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To: NativeNewYorker
They should call it the Ike Turner Syndrome....after she left Ike, Tina was seen only in the company of white men.
14 posted on 07/13/2002 5:23:37 PM PDT by Paul Atreides
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To: NativeNewYorker
Most inter-race couples I see here in Sodom are black men with white women. They are fairly common, and outnumber the obverse easily 10:1.

True. But when you count married couples, it often goes the other way, white men with black women. I suspect it's very similar to the white men and asian women idea - anything to avoid the feminist-nazi, emasculating, crazy white women who are only looking for a sperm and child-support donor.

15 posted on 07/13/2002 5:24:56 PM PDT by balrog666
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To: NativeNewYorker
If black women are having a hard time finding eligible black men, they could try what many loveless white women have done ... marry visa-clutchin' guys from Pakistan and India.
16 posted on 07/13/2002 5:31:49 PM PDT by AngrySpud
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To: balrog666
i second that...my wife is filipino. She can't understand american women's hostility toward men...it's just not part of her mindset.
17 posted on 07/13/2002 5:36:14 PM PDT by chasio649
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To: balrog666
I am a white man married to a Japanese woman (a real one from Japan, not an 'asian-american'). Racism isn't much of an issue in the states, save for the few good ol' boys who ask me if "it" is sideways.

When we lived in Japan, though, evil stares multiplied in proportion to how far away from the base we were. However, most people were pretty cool about it--like her parents, which was a relief.
18 posted on 07/13/2002 5:37:53 PM PDT by Skwidd
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To: NativeNewYorker
Black folks don't like black women going out with white men. The only thing that I can say is that lots of black men go with white women. If black men have a problem with black women, they shouldn't complain when the black women go looking elsewhere.
19 posted on 07/13/2002 5:40:41 PM PDT by Don Myers
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To: NativeNewYorker
A very interesting article. I've read similar articles before, but they usually focus on black man/white woman couples.

As an interracial couple, one of our favorite activities is to count other interracial couples we see while we're out shopping. Our record is 8 couples, seen in a single 1 1/2 hour trip through the grocery store. But then, Austin is different from the rest of Texas in this regard, I suspect.

20 posted on 07/13/2002 5:42:11 PM PDT by Bear_in_RoseBear
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To: NativeNewYorker
At least 60 percent of blacks who get awarded college degrees are women, according to the Journal of Blacks in Higher Education.
. . . and most women want to marry UP. This situation just doesn't compute very well.

21 posted on 07/13/2002 5:56:19 PM PDT by conservatism_IS_compassion
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To: NativeNewYorker
Kevin Costner & Whitney Houston in The Bodyguard comes of age.
22 posted on 07/13/2002 5:58:37 PM PDT by goldstategop
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To: NativeNewYorker
When 'Minister' Farakhan was in Dallas a couple of years ago, he orated before a crowd of 4,000 brothas, that if every black man mated with a white women, the white race would go away. They roared with joy.

My thoughts were who would be left to do the work.

23 posted on 07/13/2002 6:13:57 PM PDT by oldtimer
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To: SamAdams76
Yep. Condi's not too bad looking.

(She's just gotta work a bit on those Star Trek forehead worry wrinkles a bit!) ;-)

24 posted on 07/13/2002 6:19:42 PM PDT by AmericanInTokyo
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To: billhilly
I've dated people who have no understanding of the Middle Passage, colorism, any sort of understanding of the black experience.

I had the same reaction you did.

This must be some public school twaddle they shovel into black kids' heads to make sure they never EVER vote GOP.

25 posted on 07/13/2002 6:26:54 PM PDT by NativeNewYorker
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To: Bear_in_RoseBear
College/govt/hi-tech towns are different.

One thing I noticed growing up in NY is that you see very very few inter-racial couples in the more proletarian "outer boroughs". But they're very common in cosmopolitan Manhattan.

Good bet dating couples from around the city come into Manhattan for a change of scenery, and perhaps to escape stares and barbs.

26 posted on 07/13/2002 6:30:57 PM PDT by NativeNewYorker
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To: conservatism_IS_compassion
most women want to marry UP. This situation just doesn't compute very well.

If the population of unthreatened, educated males is mostly white, it makes perfect sense for black women to cross the color line.

27 posted on 07/13/2002 6:33:09 PM PDT by NativeNewYorker
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To: NativeNewYorker
I judge them as they come."

Her attitude is one that ALL of us should embrace.

28 posted on 07/13/2002 6:36:33 PM PDT by JimRed
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Comment #29 Removed by Moderator

To: NativeNewYorker
College/govt/hi-tech towns are different.

That's very true, and Austin is all three in one. We've never felt out of place here, while we have felt stared-at in other places.

I found this comment from the article to be especially true:

compatibility, not color, is what's ultimately important in her relationship.

Despite the fact that my wife grew up black in San Antonio and I grew up white in Northern Michigan, we both came from working/lower-middle class families. The differences between us were much fewer than the attitudes and beliefs we have in common.

30 posted on 07/13/2002 7:27:21 PM PDT by Bear_in_RoseBear
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To: Bear_in_RoseBear
...and the mixing/churning of US society makes happy pairings such as yours increasingly likely as time passes.
31 posted on 07/13/2002 7:34:01 PM PDT by NativeNewYorker
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To: the_right_way
Now that you mention it, blondes are disproportionately represented in black male/white female pairs I've seen.

Can't comment on hair dye, tho.

32 posted on 07/13/2002 7:35:47 PM PDT by NativeNewYorker
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To: the_right_way
 
Has anyone else noticed that more often than not,
white women that date black men have bleached blonde hair?

Now that you mention it, I can't think of any that
were not bleached blonde.  I guess the black guy
wants white on white, eh?

33 posted on 07/13/2002 7:39:13 PM PDT by gcruse
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To: NativeNewYorker
"Still, Smith sometimes questions if she's being true to her black identity. "

I understand this statement. I'm not in an interracial relationship because i want to be true to my white identity. I know some nice black wemon, but i don't think i'd ever hook up with any of them. I realize i'm unique in wanting to preserve my heritage and history, which includes passing the genes down. Am i a racist for this stance? well, i think of myself as more of a culture preservationist. This is just my own personal standard, and i realize alot of people don't feel this way, so i respect thier choice. My brother is married to a black woman, and we all get along great!
34 posted on 07/13/2002 7:52:24 PM PDT by sonofron
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Comment #35 Removed by Moderator

To: sonofron
". I'm not in an interracial relationship because i want to be true to my white identity."

i think this would have made more sense if it went, " I'm not in a same race relationship because...."

duh!
36 posted on 07/13/2002 7:56:19 PM PDT by sonofron
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To: sonofron
I understood you the first time. The second, I don't.
37 posted on 07/13/2002 8:02:09 PM PDT by gcruse
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To: NativeNewYorker
the mixing/churning of US society makes happy pairings such as yours increasingly likely as time passes.

Well, more interracial pairings, anyway. The happiness level will, as always, depend on the individuals involved.

The growth in the number of interracial couples has been going on for a while... the 2000 census was the first to allow multiracial listings, and a surprisingly large number of people chose to list themselves using those categories.

38 posted on 07/13/2002 8:08:59 PM PDT by Bear_in_RoseBear
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To: NativeNewYorker
"White guys find us exotic," she says. "They want to know how we [have sex], but they aren't going to take us home."

"I judge them as they come."

If the former is true how can she do the latter?

39 posted on 07/13/2002 8:27:40 PM PDT by Lincoln
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To: sonofron
Ultimately, my wife and I decided we had more in common culturally than we had differences. We were both American, after all.

i realize alot of people don't feel this way, so i respect thier choice.

If only more people shared this attitude, the world would be a happier place.

40 posted on 07/13/2002 8:38:22 PM PDT by Bear_in_RoseBear
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To: Bear_in_RoseBear
I sort of pioneered interracial dating while at university in the piney woods of east texas almost 20 years ago. Small college town, but interracial dating was almost nonexistent.

My girlfriend of that era and I probably got a few second glances, as we spent quite a lot of time together (our whole relationship was based on a ton of shared interests, values, moral and religious convictions, etc. rather than being just a physical-attraction trip, and we simply had a lot of fun just hanging out with each other).

Even so, the only even mild "incident" I recall was when we went to the grocery store together one day and a couple of black football-player types basically tried to pick up on my girlfriend (who was quite attractive btw). I guess when they only saw a white guy there they thought she was all alone :-) ... anyway, when they realized I was her boyfriend, they were quite apologetic, lol.

After a while we went separate ways and both ended up marrying spouses racially similar to ourselves. However, I think my frequent presence at her parents' house (she had a great, close-knit family btw) paved the way for one of her little sisters, who married a white guy. Last I heard, those two were doing great...

41 posted on 07/13/2002 8:48:27 PM PDT by john in missouri
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To: SamAdams76
I dated a black lady in California. We would think twice about going out because of the stares. It didn't bother us but distracted from enjoying an evening. So we watched TV a lot. The worst was when I took her two daughters to a nice restaurant in Carmel for breakfast. That was a one time deal. The daggers the rich old biddies directed our way really hurt the kids. Helen wasn't into being a victim but she was tired of it all. One night she was sitting back sipping her favorite scotch and said something I'll never forget, "Somedays I just feel like I am trapped in my skin."
42 posted on 07/13/2002 8:48:33 PM PDT by LarryLied
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To: NativeNewYorker
Well me I like Blondes and Orentials.
43 posted on 07/13/2002 8:49:02 PM PDT by weikel
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To: NativeNewYorker
I dunno about that my backround I would describe best as upper Middle Class but the girls who like me I find out later tend to be rich chicks.
44 posted on 07/13/2002 8:54:10 PM PDT by weikel
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To: oldtimer
Uh, apparently Farakhan hasn't seen the results of the 2000 census. If every black man ended up with a white woman there would be no "African Americans" in 3 generations. We'd all tan pretty easy though.
45 posted on 07/13/2002 8:55:38 PM PDT by Tailback
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To: the_right_way
It seems to be the same in North Alabama, too
46 posted on 07/13/2002 8:56:48 PM PDT by Bamaconservative
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To: NativeNewYorker
Could Mr. Right be white? [Black women choosing white men]

Yep, that's the case. I am the product of that relationship.

47 posted on 07/13/2002 8:57:32 PM PDT by MinorityRepublican
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To: sonofron
I realize i'm unique in wanting to preserve my heritage and history, which includes passing the genes down. Am i a racist for this stance? well, i think of myself as more of a culture preservationist.

Two facts:

1) You're going to pass your genes down to your descendants, no matter who you marry (oops, silly me, I still think in terms of marriage and family. ah well, those who don't can adjust).

2) Your descendants are going to be of mixed race. Your children won't be, but your grandchildren may well may. And if not your grandchildren, then your great-grandchildren.

In fact, given that your family has already cracked the interracial barrier, your descendants may go interracial pretty darn soon, no matter how white you might want your family to stay. But even if your children are of the same mind as you are, given trends in American society, white, black, hispanic and oriental are all going to get widely mixed together. It's simply a matter of sooner vs. later.

48 posted on 07/13/2002 8:57:44 PM PDT by john in missouri
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To: NativeNewYorker
Some good analysis on this theme at Steve Sailer's website: www.isteve.com.

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F (who insists upon women of the human race).

49 posted on 07/13/2002 9:03:52 PM PDT by Criminal Number 18F
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To: LarryLied
"Somedays I just feel like I am trapped in my skin."

It's a shame that good people feel that way about themselves. I wish there was an easy way to change it. It's been nearly 150 years since the slavery thing and we should be over it by now. But I feel that liberals are responsible in large part for many of the racial issues we have today. Their "affirmative action" and the resulting hiring quotas that come with it continue to perpetuate racial tension, especially when a better qualified white person is passed over for a job in order for a hiring quota to be made. The liberals continue to push a welfare state which basically traps people (many of them blacks) into government dependency which carries on generation to generation. The liberals continue to push different standards for black people, for example, requiring a higher score for a white person (such as on a civil exam) than for a black person. This inexcusable practice sends the message that black people are not as smart as white people so hey, let's lower the scores for them so that they don't have to do as well as a white guy. What an insult!

We are not going to end racism in this country until we treat everybody equally. The liberals absolutely do not want to do this, perhaps out of fear that if a lot of blacks become successful, they might turn into conservatives.

50 posted on 07/13/2002 9:08:17 PM PDT by SamAdams76
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