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China's New ICBMs Targeting New York and D.C.?
Newsmax ^ | 7/16/02 | Carl Limbacher and NewsMax.com Staff

Posted on 07/16/2002 3:49:34 PM PDT by NormsRevenge

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To: Centurion2000
When you're playing poker with another guy do you tell him you have 4 aces before he bets ?

No. Because if your opponent bets high, you win money. Nobody wins if a country launches ICBMs at us and (mostly) fails.

41 posted on 07/17/2002 7:25:49 AM PDT by andy_card
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To: NormsRevenge
Ultimate solution: evacuate the entire population of Taiwan to some other US island posession and force the chicoms to answer the question: are you claiming to own an island or are you claiming to own the people of Taiwan? The people left china precisely because they did not want anything to do with your commie government, and you can't have them. The island is all yours; do whatever you want with it. The people of Taiwan would be back in business within a year, doing their ordinary things somewhere in the Solomans, the West side of Australia, or just about anywhere, it wouldn't matter.
42 posted on 07/17/2002 7:33:37 AM PDT by medved
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To: andy_card
You could be talking about three-six million casualties in New York, alone.

And New York is, by far, the biggest city in America. It's also one of the densest. A strike on the Greater Los Angeles Metro Region would probably require 20 missiles to generate a similar number of casualties.

The numbers add up very quickly.

Actually, once you get out of the top ten cities, the numbers fall off dramatically. In order to kill suburban America en masse, you need massive numbers of warheads--much more than 60.

Not to mention the fact that the world economy would more or less come to a complete and utter stop.

You mean that China would go into economic collapse BEFORE we returned their favor?

43 posted on 07/17/2002 8:23:55 AM PDT by Poohbah
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To: Poohbah
Actually, once you get out of the top ten cities, the numbers fall off dramatically. In order to kill suburban America en masse, you need massive numbers of warheads--much more than 60.

Suburban America is largely irrelevent. Cities serve as the economic and political anchors of the nation, and we could not function without them. Without food distribution networks, safe drinking water, intact transporation systems, etc., and with significant radioactive fallout, millions of suburban soccer moms could die incidental to the initial blast.

44 posted on 07/17/2002 8:30:09 AM PDT by andy_card
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To: andy_card
Suburban America is largely irrelevent.

Interesting claim. And completely false...

Cities serve as the economic and political anchors of the nation, and we could not function without them.

There's a liability attached to those gains, and in losing a city, we lose both at once. Again, New York is the last great dense city--everything else

Without food distribution networks,

Which can function without the urban cores...

safe drinking water,

Which is generated and stored OUTSIDE the cities...

intact transporation systems,

They don't need to be intact, just functional. Notice that the Capitol Beltway is designed as a firebreak.

etc., and with significant radioactive fallout,

The fallout comes from surface bursts--i.e., from counterforce strikes. Countervalue strikes are airbursts to maximize destructive potential.

millions of suburban soccer moms could die incidental to the initial blast.

You're still going to be a LONG ways away from 150-200 million.

45 posted on 07/17/2002 8:46:07 AM PDT by Poohbah
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To: Poohbah
Interesting claim. And completely false...

Actually, since I've written a rather succesful and well-received book on this, I happen to know something about it. Suburbs and exurbs are still dependent on central cities. Even as a higher percentage of jobs migrates out to the suburbs, the economy is growing ever more dependent on cities as transportation, logistical, workforce, and education centers.

Again, New York is the last great dense city--everything else

You make it seem as though New York were dying. But in fact its growing ever more dense, and, between 1990 and 2000, jobs actually shifted from the suburbs to the city, bucking the general nationwide trend. And New York anchors even larger economic clusters. So if New York were to go boom, we could easily loose several trillion dollars in GNP overnight, and this is not counting the effects of the panic that would undoubtedly set in.

Which is generated and stored OUTSIDE the cities...

But not the distribution networks. And water sources are especially vulnerable to contamination, radioactive or otherwise.

Notice that the Capitol Beltway is designed as a firebreak.

Sounds like an urban legend to me. But even if true, do you have any idea what percentage of the DC MSA economy is concentrated within the confines of I-495?

The fallout comes from surface bursts--i.e., from counterforce strikes. Countervalue strikes are airbursts to maximize destructive potential.

Sorry. Sixty nuclear blasts over our largest population centers would cause significant fallout. Rationalize it if you wish, but nuclear war is not survivable in any meaningful sense of the word.

You're still going to be a LONG ways away from 150-200 million.

I don't think so. I think you could easily see that many casualties within five years of an attack.

46 posted on 07/17/2002 9:07:28 AM PDT by andy_card
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To: andy_card
Sorry. Sixty nuclear blasts over our largest population centers would cause significant fallout.

Sorry, you may be an absolute genius at urban planning, but you're ignorant of how nuclear weapons work or are used. G'Day.

47 posted on 07/17/2002 9:09:26 AM PDT by Poohbah
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To: Poohbah
Sorry, you may be an absolute genius at urban planning, but you're ignorant of how nuclear weapons work or are used. G'Day.

I'm not an urban planner. And while you might be expert in the technical aspects of nuclear detonations, you are clearly ignorant in matters of economics and international relations.

48 posted on 07/17/2002 9:49:21 AM PDT by andy_card
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To: andy_card; Poohbah
You're both missing the point. If they destroyed the urban centers, Hillary would *never* be president and this country would vote *solidly* pubbie! :) Think about the blue sections from '00 being...er...glowing black sections...What's a little financial inconvenience to get rid of the commie Hillary voters once and for all!?
49 posted on 07/17/2002 9:55:14 AM PDT by Black Agnes
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To: Black Agnes
That was MY (sarcastic) point :o)
50 posted on 07/17/2002 9:56:45 AM PDT by Poohbah
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To: Black Agnes
You're both missing the point. If they destroyed the urban centers, Hillary would *never* be president and this country would vote *solidly* pubbie! :) Think about the blue sections from '00 being...er...glowing black sections...What's a little financial inconvenience to get rid of the commie Hillary voters once and for all!?

LMAO. Don't tell me we need to destroy the country to save it...

51 posted on 07/17/2002 9:58:08 AM PDT by andy_card
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To: Poohbah
Then again, the noise is more dangerous to the ChiCom submariners on that Xia-class sub. Because the noise makes it QUITE easy for the ADCAPs to close in and take it out.

Figure two ADCAPs for the Xia, one for the escorting Han-class SSN?
52 posted on 07/17/2002 10:01:58 AM PDT by hchutch
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To: hchutch
Sounds good. Followed by Bush saying: "Now, Mistuh PREE-Mere, that may not have been a good strategery, sending those two boats out all by their lonesome into the Pacific. Lotsa bad things can happen, all kinds of tragic accidents, capisce?"
53 posted on 07/17/2002 10:04:38 AM PDT by Poohbah
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To: Poohbah
Well, we'd still have to take out the ICBMs. Can you say B-2s with GBU-28s? :-)

Then, we tell the ChiCom Premeir: "You have no means to hit us. The Seventh Fleet is en route to Taiwan, with orders to break your blockade if your subs are not back. You've got to ask yourself one question: Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk?"
54 posted on 07/17/2002 10:10:11 AM PDT by hchutch
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To: winodog
What are the chances that our military has a way of stopping some nukes and taking out chinas satelites ?

You would think we have lots of weapons that are kept under wraps.

Mqaybe so thirty years ago, but nowadays we can't even keep them out of our most sensitive nuclear research areas, and we allow companies to sell any thing they want, no matter how it may benefit their military (i.e. supercomputers, high tech chips, missile guidance and accuracy...the list goes on) The only kind of "wraps" I see us as a country still having is stealth technology, and one of those was lost in Bosnia(?) - how long before China gets their hands on information from that? I'm no Doomsayer but wee really should be getting busy on developing stuff to counter all these, and not take 15 years and triple budgets doing it.

55 posted on 07/17/2002 10:33:58 AM PDT by DETAILER
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