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We were duped about Okla. bombing
Pittsburgh Tribune-Review ^ | Monday, July 15, 2002 | Ralph R. Reiland

Posted on 07/21/2002 8:36:02 AM PDT by Jean S

Edited on 04/13/2004 2:02:31 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

Shortly after the explosion at the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City on April 19, 1995, an "all points bulletin" went out over the Oklahoma City police radio band alerting law enforcement officers to be on the lookout for a "late model, almost new, Chevrolet, full-size pickup, brown in color with tinted windows and a smoke-colored bug deflector on the front."


(Excerpt) Read more at pittsburghlive.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: okcbombing; terrorism
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To: Dems_R_Losers
I think we have caught him and his name is Padilla. JMHO
21 posted on 07/21/2002 9:43:57 AM PDT by BigWaveBetty
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To: Dems_R_Losers
I think you're right. McVeigh either did not know it or did not want to admit that he had been used. He was a cold and somewhat sociopathic person, I think, but even folks like that have their pride.

As for the reason that this is coming up now, I think the info and the interest have been out there for a long time. But it's only with the information emerging from the investigation of the WTC events that we are seeing everything that was suppressed by Clinton's regime, and now it's finally beginning to come together publicly.

The odd thing is that I was abroad when OKC happened, and everybody, even in Europe, knew right away that it was Islamic terrorists. And then, suddenly, Bill Clinton emerged with a member of the VRWC.

This is not to say McVeigh was not involved in it. But he clearly didn't do it alone, and it probably wasn't his idea, simply because he does not appear to have been somebody who was capable of making the plans and setting it up (to say nothing of the fact that all of tactics had Middle Eastern methods written all over them). Look for more to come out; it may take a while for the major news source pick this up, but it's happening.
22 posted on 07/21/2002 9:47:27 AM PDT by livius
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To: Dave S
I didn't say that Tim lives, nor do I think that the cigarette smoking man ran runs the show.

But there must be some reason why the Feds shut up the investigation into the ME connection and the identity of the John Does.

Read the OKC Bombing archives on FR - you might learn something.

23 posted on 07/21/2002 9:51:32 AM PDT by happygrl
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To: JeanS
America is in permanent dupe mode.
24 posted on 07/21/2002 10:01:01 AM PDT by babylonian
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To: JeanS
There are two separate topics. One is the rather transparent effort to agitate for war by pinning OKC on Iraq. This sort of thing happens all the time and shouldn't be blindly accepted on scanty "evidence."

The other topic is the loose ends and mysteries surrounding McVeigh, Nichols, "John Doe #2," and the OKC bombing. These questions are still alive and important. They are a major reason why many came to Free Republic in the first place, some years ago.

As with the 1968 MLK assassination, there's just too much in the way of money and travel and other loose ends to assume that there wasn't something else involved than just the one or two men convicted in each case.

25 posted on 07/21/2002 10:05:41 AM PDT by x
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To: rabidone
I was not wearing my tin foil hat when I read this so will someone tell me why McVeigh would allow himself to be executed without mentioning (in his defense) the participation of Iraquis (whom he had fought against in the Persian Gulf War)?

Maybe to protect his father and sister. Maybe, because he was a true believer and really hated the USA and it's government, knew that other attacks were in the works and didn't want to do anything to jeapordize them. Who knows? But anyone who believes that McVeigh and Nichols did this on their own is delusional. I believe that Clinton knew this at the time...but he had excellent political instincts and saw how he could use it to turn the public against the GOP...and given the choice between advancing HIS political career or serving the nation which do you suppose Bill Clinton would opt for?

26 posted on 07/21/2002 10:14:18 AM PDT by pgkdan
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To: livius
One thing that I continue to wonder about is the role of the FBI in all of this. McVeigh was caught so quickly and tied to the Ryder truck, which made law enforcement look great. The other evidence strongly suggesting ME involvement was still not as clear-cut as the evidence implicating McVeigh in the actual bombing. Clinton latched on to McVeigh and took off immediately on the hate radio/militia thing, and got the political momentum for new laws allowing the FBI to do more surveillance on the militia types. So, it's entirely plausible that Clinton never even knew about the evidence of ME involvement - the FBI covered it all up to make themselves look good and get the new laws they wanted passed. Then, the FBI went on to cover up TWA 800, to keep their @sses covered from OKC. When Ashcroft, Mueller, and company came in, suddenly all this new FBI evidence came out that was never made available to McVeigh's lawyers.

Things that make you go hmmmmmm......

27 posted on 07/21/2002 10:19:21 AM PDT by Dems_R_Losers
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To: pgkdan
But anyone who believes that McVeigh and Nichols did this on their own is delusional.
While I believe there is a Nichols - Islamic connection to OKC, it is plausable that McVeigh blew up his truck himself. All it requies is a truck (any yahoo can pick one up) and a lot of fertilizer (visit a dozen Home Depots). Throw in some explosives and that's it.
One thing that I can't believe is that just this one bomb took out the entire building.
28 posted on 07/21/2002 10:24:08 AM PDT by lelio
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To: rabidone
I read somewhere that McVeigh became sympathetic to the Iraqis once he came home. Maybe someone else can point you in that direction with some documentation?
29 posted on 07/21/2002 10:27:39 AM PDT by Liberty Teeth
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To: x
There are many similarities with OKC and the JFK murder

In both instances the ivestigation immediately focused on one(OKC two)people and ALL other evidence that might point to the contrary was ignored. Statements from individuals that did not support the party line were either not taken or not followed up on. In both instances VERY incriminating evidence was found on the suspect, evidence that would have been jettisoned immediately after the crime. In both cases, anyone that comes forward and refutes or even questions the party line is branded a kook, or with the famous "How can you do this to the fanily/suriviors?" My guess is that L. Freeh was involved/knew more than he will ever tell.

30 posted on 07/21/2002 10:41:35 AM PDT by morjon
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Comment #31 Removed by Moderator

To: Liberty Teeth
I read somewhere that McVeigh became sympathetic to the Iraqis once he came home. Maybe someone else can point you in that direction with some documentation?

An Essay on Hypocrisy
By Timothy McVeigh
Reprinted with permission from Media Bypass. Parthenocarpy is interested in any existing or future rebuttals of this essay.
Please contact us here to contribute.


Media Bypass / Alternative Media, Inc. Editor's note: Timothy McVeigh, sentenced to death for his role in the April 19, 1995 bombing in Oklahoma City, penned the following essay, dated "March 1998," from his cell in the administrative maximum section of the federal prison in Florence, Colo. In a preface, McVeigh wrote "I have chosen Media Bypass as a possible forum for this piece because, frankly, I realize that it is quite provocative -- and I rather doubt that any mainstream media would touch it. [Note that although the enclosed is very provocative, it was written to provoke thought -- and was not written with malevolent intent.]"

McVeigh appologized for the essay being handwritten, but noted his "current (unique) environment does not provide access to a typewriter, a word processor or a copier. (hell, I'm lucky they let me have a pen!), so I hope you understand why this is being submitted handwritten -- and I hope you can overcome this shortcoming."

McVeigh, whose interview with Media Bypass [February 1996] was picked up and dissected by the New York Times and major media outlets across the nation, also expressed concerns that reporting subsequent to this essay might be "printed out of context... but at least the original can be accurate."

A decorated U.S. Army veteran of the Persian Gulf War, McVeigh hereby offers his contribution to the debate over U.S. policy toward Iraq, a policy that McVeigh says is marked by a "deep hypocrisy."


The administration has said that Iraq has no right to stockpile chemical or biological weapons ("weapons of mass destruction") -- mainly because they have used them in the past.

Well, if that's the standard by which these matters are decided, then the U.Sl is the nation that set the precedent. The U.S. has stockpiled these same weapons (and more) for over 40 years. The U.S. claims that this was done for deterent purposes during the "Cold War" with the Soviet Union. Why, then is it invalid for Iraq to claim the same reason (deterence) -- with respect to Iraq's (real) war with, and the continued threat of, its neighbor Iran?

The administration claims that Iraq has used these weapons in the past. We've all seen the pictures that show a Kurdish woman and child frozen in death from the use of chemical weapons. But, have you ever seen these pictures juxtaposed next to pictures from Hiroshima or Nagasaki?

I suggest that one study the histories of World War I, World War II and other "regional conflicts" that the U.S. has been involved in to familiarize themselves with the use of "weapons of mass destruction."

Remember Dresden? How about Hanoi? Tripoli? Baghdad? What about the big ones-- Hiroshima and Nagasaki? (At these two locations, the U.S. killed at least 150,000 non-combatants -- mostly women and children -- in the blink of an eye. Thousands more took hours, days, weeks, or months to die.)

If Saddam is such a demon, and people are calling for war crimes charges and trials against him and his nation, why do we not hear the same cry for blood directed at those responsible for even greater amounts of "mass destruction" -- like those responsible and involved in dropping bombs on the cities mentioned above?

The truth is, the U.S. has set the standard when it comes to the stockpiling and use of weapons of mass destruction.

Hypocrisy when it comes to death of children? In Oklahoma City, it was family convenience that explained the presence of a day-care center placed between street level and the law enforcement agencies which occupied the upper floors of the building. Yet when discussion shifts to Iraq, any day-care center in a government building instantly becomes "a shield." Think about that.

(Actually, there is a difference here. The administration has admitted to knowledge of the presence of children in or near Iraqi government buildings, yet they still proceed with their plans to bomb -- saying that they cannot be held responsible if children die. There is no such proof, however, that knowledge of the presence of children existed in relation to the Oklahoma City bombing.)

When considering morality and mens rea [criminal intent] in light of these facts, I ask: Who are the true barbarians?

Yet another example of this nation's blatant hypocrisy is revealed by the polls which suggest that this nation is greatly in favor of bombing Iraq.

In this instance, the people of the nation approve of bombing government employees because they are "guilty by association" -- they are Iraqi government employees. In regard to the bombing in Oklahoma City, however, such logic is condemned.

What motivates these seemingly contradictory positions? Do people think that government workers in Iraq are any less human than those in Oklahoma City? Do they think that Iraqis don't have families who will grieve and mourn the loss of their loved ones? In this context, do people come to believe that the killing of foreigners is somehow different than the killing of Americans?

I recently read of an arrest in New York City where possession of a mere pipe bomb was charged as possession of a "weapon of mass destruction." If a two pound pipe bomb is a "weapon of mass destruction," then what do people think that a 2,000-pound steel-encased bomb is?

I find it ironic, to say the least, that one of the aircraft that could be used to drop such a bomb on Iraq is dubbed "The Spirit of Oklahoma."

When a U.S. plane or cruise missile is used to bring destruction to a foreign people, this nation rewards the bombers with applause and praise. What a convenient way to absolve these killers of any responsibility for the destruction they leave in their wake.

Unfortunately, the morality of killing is not so superficial. The truth is, the use of a truck, a plane, or a missile for the delivery of a weapon of mass destruction does not alter the nature of the act itself.

These are weapons of mass destruction -- and the method of delivery matters little to those on the receiving end of such weapons.

Whether you wish to admit it or not, when you approve, morally, of the bombing of foreign tartgets by the U.S. military, you are approving of acts morally equivilent to the bombing in Oklahoma City. The only difference is that this nation is not going to see any foreign casualties appear on the cover of Newsweek magazine.

It seems ironic and hypocritical that an act viciously condemned in Oklahoma City is now a "justified" response to a problem in a foreign land. Then again, the history of United States policy over the last century, when examined fully, tends to exemplify hypocrisy.

When considering the use of weapons of mass destruction against Iraq as a means to an end, it would be wise to reflect on the words of the late U.S. Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis. His words are as true in the context of Olmstead as they are when they stand alone:
"Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example."

Sincerely


Timothy J. McVeigh

Copyright (c) 1998, Media Bypass / Alternative Media, Inc.

32 posted on 07/21/2002 10:55:24 AM PDT by The Great Satan
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To: The Great Satan
Thanks, I never saw that before.
33 posted on 07/21/2002 11:18:41 AM PDT by MileHi
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To: JeanS
Interesting stuff bump!
34 posted on 07/21/2002 11:29:32 AM PDT by dcwusmc
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To: Dave S
I guess the associated press is part of the conspiracy to make Middle Easteners and Clinton's FBI loook bad huh? I noticed you didn't dispute one fact in the story. Too bad you can't use your mind to attack facts and instead have to attack people and completely misrepresent their arguments to do so.

So tell us all then are you an Islamic disruptor with an obviously fake Americanized name? Or are you an Iranian or Iraqi trying to pretend your country isn't invoved in terrorism?

35 posted on 07/21/2002 11:37:38 AM PDT by spycatcher
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To: Dems_R_Losers
There's enough to make anybody wonder about this one! I'm not a conspiracy theorist (I think most things in this world are, like it or not, exactly what they seem), but this one does make me think twice.

If the FBI had something to do with this, I really don't think the it acted on its own, even if it had something to cover up (intelligence failure, perhaps?). Remember, Janet Reno was in charge of the whole show at that time. Nothing that happened under her watch was either (a) non-political (everything she did, she did to protect Bill) or (b) honest and open.

I hope a lot of serious questions are being asked in Washington about this right now. Actually, they probably don't have questions in Washington, except how much they should release at a given time and when they should do it.

Bush has been very reluctant to do anything that would make Bill look bad, mostly, I think, because he feels that this might undermine respect for the office of the Presidency. So I think we might see this stuff starting to come out in indirect ways, through the regional press, for example, until enough critical mass develops for the story to make it to the big leagues. Will this story help mobilize opinion against Iraq (or any other Arab terrorists we decide to attack)? Of course. Does that make it untrue? Not at all.

36 posted on 07/21/2002 11:44:29 AM PDT by livius
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To: rabidone
From a psychological perspective, it's important to homicidal serial killer personalities like McVeigh that they are in control. It was vital to McVeigh that he be viewed by the public as the mastermind of the bombing, a patriot and revolutionary like the founding fathers. I do wonder whether he teamed up with his fellow madmen in the al Queda to perform that bombing, and kept mum above all because he knew a larger campaign on their part was on the way, but in any event psychology provides a explanation for why he kept quiet about the help he must have received from some other domestic or foreign source.
37 posted on 07/21/2002 11:49:24 AM PDT by motexva
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To: rabidone
"McVeigh would allow himself to be executed without mentioning (in his defense) the participation of Iraquis (whom he had fought against in the Persian Gulf War)?"

Put on your tinfoil hat--here goes! What if they told him they would fix him up with a new identity if he kept his mouth shut. That the execution would be a sham?

Carolyn

38 posted on 07/21/2002 11:52:37 AM PDT by CDHart
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To: JeanS
In fact, Bill Clinton accomplished the opposite.

Instead of telling the truth and uniting Americans on "common ground" against a foreign enemy, he chose to divide the country in order to remain in office for four more years.

What else should we have expected from this puked up hairball?

39 posted on 07/21/2002 11:57:40 AM PDT by VOYAGER
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To: pgkdan
I believe that Clinton knew this at the time...but he had excellent political instincts and saw how he could use it to turn the public against the GOP...and given the choice between advancing HIS political career or serving the nation which do you suppose Bill Clinton would opt for?

When it comes to Bill Clinton I'm even more cynical than you are. I doubt that he spent even thirty seconds pondering who actually did it. I think his first last and only thought was "How can I use this to help myself?".

40 posted on 07/21/2002 12:20:54 PM PDT by TigersEye
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