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Northern Command General Endorses Posse Comitatus Review
NewsMax.com ^ | Monday, July 22, 2002 | NewsMax.com

Posted on 07/22/2002 11:46:03 AM PDT by USA21

Northern Command General Endorses Posse Comitatus Review

Although Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld has said the Pentagon would not seek any changes in the venerable Posse Comitatus Act that restricts the use of the military in domestic operations, President Bush's new plan for domestic security included a notable provision calling for Justice and Defense attorneys to review it. Now Gen. Ralph E. Eberhart, the officer charged with defending the continental U.S., has gone on record that he’s all for it and would endorse changes in the law if that translated into a better-defended country.

"My view has been that Posse Comitatus will constantly be under review as we mature this command, as we do our exercises, as we interact with FEMA, F.B.I., and those lead federal agencies out there," the New York Times quoted Gen. Eberhart Sunday.

The Posse Comitatus Act was enacted after the Civil War in response to the perceived misuse of federal troops who were charged with keeping order in the South.

Despite the Act’s restrictions on using military forces to performing domestic law enforcement duties, the law has been amended and loosened in modern times. Examples: assisting federal agencies in drug interdiction work, protecting national parks, executing quarantine and certain health laws – and most recently supporting civilian agencies at the Winter Olympics in Salt Lake City this year.

However, Eberhart stipulated that he had no specific changes in mind.

The Times noted that the willingness of General Eberhart and some other senior officers to consider amending the law signals a shift in thinking by many top Pentagon officials, who have historically steered away from involving the military in domestic law enforcement.

Since 9/11 the act has caused some dilemmas, according to the Times report. When National Guard troops were deployed on the Canadian border after Sept. 11, the Posse Comitatus law prevented those troops from conducting surveillance from the helicopters that flew them to their assignment.

In another example, administration lawyers opined that President Bush would violate Posse Comitatus if he directly called up National Guard troops to help provide security at airports nationwide. Bush instead asked governors to use their call-up authority to perform the same task.

Eberhart’s new Northern Command, which officially kicks off on Oct. 1, will run military flying patrols over American cities, search the waters up to 500 miles off the United States coast, and respond to major terrorist attacks.

Eberhart has said that he is anxious to use new technology, including unmanned surveillance blimps cruising at 70,000 feet and Predator drones scanning American coastlines.

The general said it was also possible that the North American Aerospace Defense Command would expand beyond the United States and Canada to include Mexico.

"To defend this nation, we have to defend as far out as possible," General Eberhart said. "Therefore we need the support of Canada and Mexico to be able to defend our interests."


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: possecomitatus

1 posted on 07/22/2002 11:46:03 AM PDT by USA21
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To: USA21
We don't need this. Remember that when tanks are rumbling through your subdivision.
2 posted on 07/22/2002 11:48:05 AM PDT by RightWhale
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Comment #3 Removed by Moderator

To: USA21
Who publishes "The Posse Comitatus Review," and how much does a one-year subscription cost?
4 posted on 07/22/2002 11:49:23 AM PDT by tracer
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To: michellcraig
Postal officials change stance on Operation TIPS

From Kelli Arena

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- In a shift from its position 24 hours earlier, the U.S. Postal Service said Thursday it had decided to meet with the Justice Department to discuss Operation TIPS, a government plan to encourage U.S. postal workers to report suspicious activity as part of the government's war on terrorism.

USPS officials had said Wednesday their 800,000 employees would not participate in the proposed program, whose name is an acronym for Terrorist Information and Prevention System.

But the USPS explained Thursday, "That decision was made because we had insufficient information on the program, and because we had not discussed the issue internally or with the two unions affected."

In a statement, the postal service said it, the National Association of Letter Carriers and the National Rural Letter Carriers' Association agreed a meeting was necessary with Department of Justice representatives to discuss the initiative. No meeting has been scheduled. Several weeks ago, Homeland Security officials approached the postal service about Operations TIPS and held a preliminary meeting about the possible involvement of letter carriers in the proposed initiative. Plans for the program have raised concern across the political spectrum. Members of civil liberties and privacy groups have joined conservative groups in their condemnation of the proposed program, dubbing it "Operation Snoops."

5 posted on 07/22/2002 11:50:52 AM PDT by USA21
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To: RightWhale
Just a matter of time, Fox is giving it the spin job now. Wonder how long before a Teinamin Square on our soil?
6 posted on 07/22/2002 11:51:46 AM PDT by steve50
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To: tracer
Backing for Bush army plan

From AP

July 23, 2002

WASHINGTON: US homeland security chief Tom Ridge yesterday cautiously backed President George W. Bush's call for the military to be used for domestic law enforcement, saying there was a need for "discussion" on the proposal.

A 90-page strategy document released by Mr Bush last week outlines the creation of a Homeland Security Department and the review of a law which bans the military from arrests, searches, seizing evidence and other police activity on US soil. The Coast Guard and National Guard troops, under the control of state governors, are excluded from the law, known as the "Posse Comitatus Act".

Mr Ridge, speaking ahead of a Bush speech on the strategy planned for last night, Australian time, admitted it went "against our instincts as a country to empower the military with the ability to arrest", and called the prospect "very unlikely", but said it was important the law be examined.

Influential Democratic senators Carl Levin and Joe Bidden told television news programs separately yesterday they supported reviewing the law, but they expressed no interest in granting the military new powers to arrest Americans.

Congress is racing to approve Mr Bush's proposed legislation by the end of its autumn session. In the Senate, a version of the measure by Democrat Joseph Lieberman tracks closely with Mr Bush's plan.

It also would augment the agency's ability to gather intelligence from the FBI, CIA and others. That bill is to be considered by the Governmental Affairs Committee, which Senator Lieberman heads, tomorrow.

House Majority Leader Dick Armey said on NBC's Meet the Press there was a strong possibility Congress would resolve its differences and send Mr Bush a bill enacting the sweeping reorganisation by September 11.

Some lawmakers have expressed concern about rushing decisions on far-reaching changes in the bureaucracy, but Mr Armey said: "It's time to move forward with this. The President's got a good plan."

7 posted on 07/22/2002 11:58:53 AM PDT by USA21
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To: steve50
Waco?
8 posted on 07/22/2002 11:59:29 AM PDT by APBaer
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To: USA21
(Thanks, but I just was making a pun re: the title of the thread)
9 posted on 07/22/2002 12:01:39 PM PDT by tracer
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To: APBaer
Good point. Started out as an ATF/DEA/Childrens Services kinda thing tho. I always did think it was just a test run to get us ready.
10 posted on 07/22/2002 12:03:13 PM PDT by steve50
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To: RightWhale
We don't need this. Remember that when tanks are rumbling through your subdivision.

Are you saying that the Posse Comitatus Act is the only statute on the books that has divine perfection in past, present, and infinitely distant future?

11 posted on 07/22/2002 12:04:47 PM PDT by Poohbah
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To: tracer
LOL!
12 posted on 07/22/2002 12:07:10 PM PDT by Rebelbase
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To: Poohbah
Are you saying that the Posse Comitatus Act is the only statute on the books that has divine perfection in past, present, and infinitely distant future?

Hadn't thought about it much until just now. But the New World is overflowing with banana republics, what's one more?

13 posted on 07/22/2002 12:07:14 PM PDT by RightWhale
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To: USA21
Gen. Ralph E. Eberhart, the officer charged with defending the continental U.S., has gone on record that he’s That he's a traitor, not unlike Bill Clinton , who will disregard his sworn oath of office to uphold the Constitution, If Bush had any American gutts in that whishywashy Icc-lovin body of his he'd fire this traitor. But Bush won't cause he's part of the problem and supports terrorism within the USA.
14 posted on 07/22/2002 12:07:26 PM PDT by Marobe
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To: Marobe
As part of his effort to bolster security, Bush has called on Congress to thoroughly review the 19th century law that bans the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marine Corps from participating in arrests, searches, seizure of evidence and other police-type activity on U.S. soil.

The Coast Guard and National Guard troops under the control of state governors are excluded from the Reconstruction-era law, known as the Posse Comitatus Act.

15 posted on 07/22/2002 12:09:27 PM PDT by USA21
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To: Poohbah
we have all the laws we need on the book now
16 posted on 07/22/2002 12:10:33 PM PDT by USA21
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To: USA21
And not one needs to be reviewed, huh?
17 posted on 07/22/2002 12:12:52 PM PDT by Poohbah
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To: Marobe
Homeland security plan lays out 'lines of authority'

By Mimi Hall, USA TODAY

By Larry Downing, Reuters

President Bush, with Vice President Cheney, discusses homeland security strategy Tuesday.

WASHINGTON — President Bush's national strategy for homeland security offers a chilling reminder of the dangers the nation faces at the hands of terrorists and a dizzying list of high-tech solutions that could cost the government and industry billions of dollars.

From futuristic systems that would detect a person's "hostile intent" to consideration of military enforcement of quarantines, the strategy is a blueprint for how the government and private sector should prepare for another terrorist attack.

"This comprehensive plan lays out clear lines of authority and clear responsibilities ... for federal employees and for governors and mayors and community and business leaders and the American citizens," Bush said upon releasing the 71-page report. "With a better picture of those responsibilities, all of us can direct money and manpower to meet them."

White House officials acknowledged that implementing the plan would take years and billions of dollars. Much of it would require action by Congress, cash-strapped state and local governments, businesses and foreign governments.

Bush's strategy calls for a national effort that also would include developing new vaccines to fight bioterrorism, creating high-tech chemical detection systems and expanding extradition authority.

"Our society presents an almost infinite array of potential targets that can be attacked through a variety of methods," the strategy says. "We must be prepared to adapt as our enemies in the war on terrorism alter their means of attack."

Much of what is in the plan is already underway, such as increasing security at U.S. borders with Canada and Mexico and stockpiling vaccines against anthrax and smallpox. Congress also is on its way to creating a 170,000-employee department of homeland security.

Homeland security experts praised the strategy as a solid outline of the ongoing terrorist threat, the nation's vulnerabilities and what needs to be done. To that end, the plan says the government should:

Create "red teams" of federal agents who would run mock-terrorism drills to try to find weaknesses in preparedness. Use the military for civilian defense, including enforcing quarantines in case of an attack using a contagious virus. Review state quarantine laws, some of which are more than 100 years old.

Increase the availability of terrorism insurance. Develop a scientific system to detect a person's hostile intent, so security officials could find possible terrorists.

Review public disclosure laws that might discourage some companies, such as those that have dangerous chemical plants, from sharing proprietary information with the government.

Randall Larsen, director of the ANSER Institute for Homeland Security, called the report "a great step forward."

Others questioned whether the strategy is fiscally realistic. The federal government and the states have spent more than $50 billion on homeland security; the strategy says the private sector, which spent $55 billion a year on security before Sept. 11, might need to double that.

In Congress, which is on a fast track to approve a new department, lawmakers welcomed the strategy, but Democrats questioned some elements.

Rep. Robert Menendez, D-N.J., expressed concern that the Bush administration will try to amend the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878, which forbids the military from engaging in civilian law enforcement. Menendez also said he worried that a recommended national standard for driver's licenses could infringe on Americans' civil liberties.

Former acting CIA director Jack Devine said the focus should remain on hunting down terrorists abroad. "This is more of an offensive game than a defensive game," he said. "Homeland security improves our position somewhat, but it doesn't get you to the point where you can sleep at night."

18 posted on 07/22/2002 12:15:18 PM PDT by USA21
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To: USA21
The Art of the Cache by Travis McGee. Food for thought. You're not going to win a shootout with a tank if they come for your stuff. Just ask yourself, how would David Koresh be viewed in today's climate of fear? If you're sitting on a big supply of weapons, you might want to give this some thought before anything gets signed into law. If you wait till they throw up checkpoints on the roads it'll be too late.
19 posted on 07/22/2002 12:24:19 PM PDT by Prodigal Son
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To: USA21
Have they defined 'military' yet? Will it be limited to only US Forces or perhaps will it include NATO, UN or other foreign 'military'...under "our" command, of course.
20 posted on 07/22/2002 12:49:44 PM PDT by RCW2001
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To: RightWhale
There is a middle ground here. I would have no qualms about the military exercising police powers over non-citizens. I don't give a rat's ass about the rights of non-citizens, and this would be well within the military's charter of protecting the U.S. from external threats - even if those threat individuals happen to be on U.S. soil at the time.

BTW, there is a parallel in the policies imposed by the intelligence community regarding the collection of intelligence against U.S. persons.

21 posted on 07/22/2002 12:58:26 PM PDT by LouD
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To: RCW2001
About 13,500 troops from the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines will use the latest in military hardware in a simulation of what planners believe the battlefield could look like in five years. Over three weeks, troops will play out a scenario that echoes real-world events involving simulated weapons of mass destruction, urban warfare, the United Nations and humanitarian relief.
22 posted on 07/22/2002 12:58:38 PM PDT by USA21
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To: LouD
What about U.S citizens. ?
23 posted on 07/22/2002 12:59:42 PM PDT by USA21
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To: USA21
He forgot to mention the military assistance given to the BATF in their seige on the Branch Davidian Church.

Our politicians and bureaucrats are trying to hold us hostage. claiming that they cannot stop the invasion coming across our borders because they would be employing American troops on American soil. This is hogwash or puerca caca. They are trying to blackmail us out of our liberties and make us trade the PCA for a stepped up campaign against terrorists.

24 posted on 07/22/2002 1:03:34 PM PDT by Woodkirk
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To: Woodkirk
Biden backs letting soldiers arrest civilians

By Joyce Howard Price THE WASHINGTON TIMES

Sen. Joseph R. Biden Jr., Delaware Democrat, yesterday strongly endorsed giving soldiers the power to arrest American civilians.

Interviewed yesterday on "Fox News Sunday," Mr. Biden, a member of the Judiciary Committee, said the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878, which prevents the military from exercising police powers in this country, should be re-examined and "has to be amended."

Such a change will happen soon, he said. However, Tom Ridge, director of the Office of Homeland Security, said in several appearances on political talk shows yesterday that the Biden proposal should be considered but that he thinks it's "very unlikely" such a change will be made.

The Biden proposal and the Ridge "knockdown" — not necessarily a "knockout" — may have been coordinated and calculated to measure public reaction. Mr. Ridge grew more emphatic later in the day in his view that military authorities should not have such powers of arrest over civilians.

Mr. Biden said that "we're not talking about general police power, changing the idea that you would have your local National Guard with arrest power like your local policeman."

But "it's not very realistic" that, under the current law, soldiers with knowledge of weapons of mass destruction, who might be checking out the discovery of a terrorist weapon in the United States, would "not be able to exercise the same power a police officer would in dealing with that situation."

"Right now, when you call in the military, the military would not be able to shoot to kill, if they were approaching the weapon," nor could they arrest any suspects. Mr. Biden is chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

Air Force Gen. Ralph E. Eberhardt, President Bush's choice to lead the military's new Northern Command, told the New York Times that he favors changes in existing law to give increased domestic powers to the military to protect the nation against terrorist attacks.

"We should always be reviewing things like Posse Comitatus and other laws if we think it ties our hands in protecting the American people," said Gen. Eberhardt, whose command's primary goal is domestic security, in a dispatch published yesterday in the newspaper.

The New York Times reported that the general's opinion is shared by other senior military officials and represents a "shift in thinking" at the Pentagon, which historically has resisted involvement in domestic law enforcement.

The White House has instructed lawyers at the departments of Defense and Justice to analyze federal laws on the books that restrict the military's role in law enforcement on U.S. shores, the paper reported.

Congress assigned to federal troops a large role in law enforcement in the 11 Confederate states after the Civil War, tasks such as guarding election polling places, arresting members of the Ku Klux Klan, and halting the production of illegal moonshine and the fomenting of labor strife. The Posse Comitatus Act was enacted in 1878 to eliminate military enforcement of the civil law, effectively ending Reconstruction.

Mr. Biden recalled that in 1995 he and Sen. Sam Nunn, Georgia Democrat, after the bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City, introduced legislation that would have "moderately altered" the Posse Comitatus Act, enabling the military to intervene in incidents involving weapons of mass destruction.

Mr. Biden said some lawmakers are likely to be more receptive to repealing the 1878 act now than they were before September 11.

On Fox, Mr. Ridge called Gen. Eberhardt's remarks about the need for such a review "very appropriate." "We need to be talking about military assets in anticipation of a crisis event. And, clearly, if you're talking abut using the military, then you should have a discussion about Posse Comitatus. It's not out of the question [that there could someday be a situation] when, in support of civilian authorities, we would give the National Guard or troops arrest ability" in a crisis situation where there may be "severe consequences to a community or region."

However, he said such a scenario is "very unlikely." In a separate interview on CNN's "Late Edition With Wolf Blitzer," Mr. Ridge was even more emphatic that the discussion is an academic one. "There's been absolutely no discussion with regard to giving military authorities the ability to arrest in their support of civilian authorities." Asked whether he believes the military should have the power to arrest U.S. citizens, he replied: "No.",p. Mr. Ridge said he could imagine, hypothetically, the secretaries of defense and homeland security broaching the possibility of changing the 1878 act at some future meeting.

"That does not mean that it will ever be used or the discussion will conclude that it even should be used," he said. "I think that generally goes against our instincts as a country to empower the military with the ability to arrest."

On "Late Edition," Sen. Fred Thompson of Tennessee, ranking Republican on the Governmental Affairs Committee, said he believes military troops could be useful for tasks such as "surveillance along the borders thousands of miles that are very difficult for law enforcement to deal with."

"It would be against our traditional Posse Comitatus principles. But it might be an idea whose time has come."

But Sen. Carl Levin, Michigan Democrat and chairman of the Armed Services Committee, said the Posse Comitatus Act is a "solid law" that "has served us well." He said: "We should not assume that we're going to have to change it. On the other hand, I don't fear looking at it to see whether or not our military can be more helpful than they've been up to now" in providing training, equipment and other assistance in disaster situations. But the military should not be arresting people.

25 posted on 07/22/2002 1:15:17 PM PDT by USA21
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To: Poohbah
The Alien and Sedition Acts of 1798 from

Folwell's "Laws of the U.S."

Under the threat of war with France, Congress in 1798 passed four laws in an effort to strengthen the Federal government. Known collectively as the Alien and Sedition Acts, the legislation sponsored by the Federalists was also intended to quell any political opposition from the Republicans, led by Thomas Jefferson.

The first of the laws was the Naturalization Act, passed by Congress on June 18. This act required that aliens be residents for 14 years instead of 5 years before they became eligible for U.S. citizenship.

Congress then passed the Alien Act on June 25, authorizing the President to deport aliens "dangerous to the peace and safety of the United States" during peacetime.

The third law, the Alien Enemies Act, was enacted by Congress on July 6. This act allowed the wartime arrest, imprisonment and deportation of any alien subject to an enemy power.

The last of the laws, the Sedition Act, passed on July 14 declared that any treasonable activity, including the publication of "any false, scandalous and malicious writing," was a high misdemeanor, punishable by fine and imprisonment. By virtue of this legislation twenty-five men, most of them editors of Republican newspapers, were arrested and their newspapers forced to shut down.

One of the men arrested was Benjamin Franklin's grandson, Benjamin Franklin Bache, editor of the Philadelphia Democrat-Republican Aurora. Charged with libeling President Adams, Bache's arrest erupted in a public outcry against all of the Alien and Sedition Acts.

Many Americans questioned the constitutionality of these laws. Indeed, public opposition to the Alien and Sedition Acts was so great that they were in part responsible for the election of Thomas Jefferson, a Republican, to the presidency in 1800. Once in office, Jefferson pardoned all those convicted under the Sedition Act, while Congress restored all fines paid with interest.

26 posted on 07/22/2002 1:46:52 PM PDT by USA21
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To: Poohbah
THE ALIEN ENEMIES ACT

An Act respecting alien enemies.

SECTION 1. Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, That whenever there shall be a declared war between the United States and any foreign nation or government, or any invasion or predatory incursion shall be perpetrated, attempted, or threatened against the territory of the United States,

by any foreign nation or government, and the President of the United States shall make public proclamation of the event, all natives, citizens, denizens, or subjects of the hostile nation or government, being males of the age of fourteen years and upwards, who shall be within the United States, and not actually naturalized, shall be liable to be apprehended, restrained, secured and removed, as alien enemies. And the President of the United States shall be,

and he is hereby authorized, in any event, as aforesaid, by his proclamation thereof, or other public act, to direct the conduct to be observed, on the part of the United States, towards the aliens who shall become liable, as aforesaid; the manner and degree of the restraint to which they shall be subject, and in what cases, and upon what security their residence shall be permitted, and to provide for the removal of those, who, not being permitted to reside within the United States, shall refuse or neglect to depart

therefrom; and to establish any other regulations which shall be found necessary in the premises and for the public safety: Provided, that aliens resident within the United States, who shall become liable as enemies, in the manner aforesaid, and who shall not be chargeable with actual hostility, or other crime against the public safety, shall be allowed, for the recovery, disposal, and removal of their goods and effects, and for their departure, the full time which is, or shall be stipulated by any treaty, where any shall have been between the United States, and the hostile nation or government, of which they shall be

natives, citizens, denizens or subjects: and where no such treaty shall have existed, the President of the United States may ascertain and declare such reasonable time as may be consistent with the public safety, and according to the dictates of humanity and national hospitality.

SEC. 2. And be it further enacted, That after any proclamation shall be made as aforesaid, it shall be the duty of the several courts of the United States, and of each state, having criminal jurisdiction, and of the several judges and justices of the courts of the United States, and they shall be, and are hereby respectively, authorized upon complaint, against any alien or alien enemies, as aforesaid, who shall be resident and at large within such jurisdiction or district, to the danger of the public peace or safety, and contrary to the tenor or intent of such proclamation, or other regulations which the President of the United States shall and may establish in the premises, to cause such alien or aliens to be duly apprehended and convened before such court, judge or justice; and after a full examination and hearing on such complaint, and sufficient cause therefor appearing, shall and may order such alien or aliens to be removed out of the territory of the United States, or to give sureties of their good behaviour, or to be otherwise restrained, conformably to the proclamation or regulations which shall and may be established as aforesaid, and may imprison, or otherwise secure such alien or aliens, until the order which shall and may be made, as aforesaid, shall be performed.

SEC. 3. And be it further enacted, That it shall be the duty of the marshal of the district in which any alien enemy shall be apprehended, who by the President of the United States, or by order of any court, judge or justice, as aforesaid, shall be required to depart, and to be removed, as aforesaid, to provide therefor, and to execute such order, by himself or his deputy, or other discreet person or persons to be employed by him, by causing a removal of such alien out of the territory of the United States; and for such removal the marshal shall have the warrant of the President of the United States, or of the court, judge or justice ordering the same, as the case may be.

JONATHAN DAYTON, Speaker of the House of Representatives.

THEODORE SEDGWICK, President of the Senate, pro tempore.

APPROVED, July 6, 1798:

JOHN ADAMS, President of the United States

27 posted on 07/22/2002 2:08:33 PM PDT by USA21
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To: LouD
There is a middle ground here.

There is also a problem. The forces of the excluded middle will not quit until they totally vanguish the believers in the middle ground. Historically these forces have eventually won every time.

28 posted on 07/22/2002 2:11:28 PM PDT by RightWhale
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To: USA21
"Gen. Ralph E. Eberhart, the officer charged with defending the continental U.S., has gone on record that he’s all for it and would endorse changes in the law if that translated into a better-defended country."

Sure the General want the changes. It will just make his new kingdom bigger amd more powerful than any other CINC's. I realy worry about stuff like this. The good news is that Rummy doesn't want a new four star nightmare either. He has enough of those now.

29 posted on 07/22/2002 2:16:24 PM PDT by habaes corpussel
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To: steve50
"Just a matter of time, Fox is giving it the spin job now."

I am so surprised!

30 posted on 07/22/2002 2:20:23 PM PDT by habaes corpussel
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To: USA21
"Sen. Joseph R. Biden Jr., Delaware Democrat, yesterday strongly endorsed giving soldiers the power to arrest American civilians."

Yea and the very first Citizen the military should arrest is Biden. The Senator who wants our Military to be tried by an International Court. I just hope that Bidens Senate Challenager understands the ammo Biden is giving him.

31 posted on 07/22/2002 2:27:00 PM PDT by habaes corpussel
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To: habaes corpussel
I realy worry about stuff like this.

I'am scared for America 250 years of FREEDOM and its being taking away so easy

32 posted on 07/22/2002 2:27:53 PM PDT by USA21
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To: habaes corpussel
Sen. Joseph R. Biden Jr is a One Worlder
33 posted on 07/22/2002 2:29:18 PM PDT by USA21
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To: USA21
bttt
34 posted on 07/22/2002 2:29:29 PM PDT by Don Myers
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To: RightWhale
We are sliding into a Military Dictatorship.
35 posted on 07/22/2002 2:29:53 PM PDT by Don Myers
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To: Don Myers
Ollie North has his knickers in a knot over this on his radio show.
36 posted on 07/22/2002 2:34:36 PM PDT by Linda
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To: USA21
I have defended most everything that's been done. But making us a police state, like China, like Cuba, is NOT WHAT OUR FOREFATHERS DIED TO BRING US! Hitlery is licking her chops at inheriting the new Police State!!!! And all that practice Bill put in with troops in the citires during his term in office will be able to be put to use. Urban searches and such.

Just wait. Just wait to see what's next.

We are in deep yogurt no matter what else happens because of the stinking Osama's of the world and those who have no concept of what it means for America to become a police state. THAT is what we are headed for with Hitlery heading the State Police!!!

37 posted on 07/22/2002 2:39:44 PM PDT by Freedom'sWorthIt
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To: APBaer
Second on Waco!

military hardware has been used against our own civilians, as of late our civilian police units have become paramilitary- pre 9-11. Now, post 9-11 10x as bad with the anti-terrorism initiatives.
38 posted on 07/22/2002 3:06:19 PM PDT by Soul Citizen
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To: USA21
ED EBERHART BIOGRAPHY SHEET BANNER

GENERAL RALPH E. ED EBERHART

Selected for reassignment as Commander, U.S. Northern Command, and Commander, North American Aerospace Defense Command, Peterson Air Force Base, Colo.

General Ralph E. "Ed" Eberhart is Commander in Chief, North American Aerospace Defense Command; Commander, U.S. Space Command; and Department of Defense Manager for Manned Space Flight Support Operations, Peterson Air Force Base, Colo.

General Eberhart entered the Air Force in 1968 as a graduate of the U.S. Air Force Academy. His staff experience includes serving as Executive Officer to the Air Force Chief of Staff at Headquarters U.S. Air Force; Deputy Chief of Staff for Inspection, Safety and Security, Headquarters Tactical Air Command; Director for Programs and Evaluation, Headquarters U.S. Air Force; Director of Force Structure, Resources and Assessment, the Joint Staff; and Deputy Chief of Staff for Plans and Operations, Headquarters U.S. Air Force. The general has also served as the Air Force’s Vice Chief of Staff, and as Commander of Air Combat Command and Commander of Air Force Space Command.

General Eberhart also commanded a flight, squadron, wing, numbered air force, as well as sub-unified and unified commands. While Commander of the 363rd Tactical Fighter Wing during Operation Desert Shield, the unit established the theater's initial air-to-ground combat capability from a forward operating location. While serving as the Commander of U.S. Forces, Japan, he was awarded the Grand Cordon of the Order of the Sacred Treasure by the Emperor of Japan. A command pilot, he has logged more than 4,500 hours primarily in fighter and trainer aircraft, including 300 combat missions as a forward air controller in Vietnam.


EDUCATION:


1968 Bachelor of science degree in political science, U.S. Air Force Academy, Colorado Springs, Colo.
1973 Squadron Officer School, by correspondence
1974 Air Command and Staff College, by correspondence
1977 Master's degree in political science, Troy State University
1987 National War College, Fort Lesley J. McNair, Washington, D.C.

ASSIGNMENTS:


1. August 1968 - August 1969, student, undergraduate pilot training, 615th Student Squadron, Air Training Command, Craig Air Force Base, Ala.
2. February 1970 - December 1970, forward air controller, 20th Tactical Air Support Squadron, Pleiku Air Base, South Vietnam
3. December 1970 - June 1974, T-38 instructor pilot, assistant flight commander, flight commander and headquarters squadron commander, 71st Flying Training Wing, Vance Air Force Base, Okla.
4. June 1974 - June 1975, Resource Manager, Air Staff Training Program, Special Category Management Section, Rated Career Management Branch, Headquarters Air Force Military Personnel Center, Randolph Air Force Base, Texas
5. December 1975 - February 1977, F-4E flight commander and instructor pilot, 525th Tactical Fighter Squadron, Bitburg Air Base, West Germany
6. February 1977 - December 1978, F-4E instructor pilot, standardization and evaluation flight examiner, and assistant chief, standardization and evaluation, 50th Tactical Fighter Wing, Hahn Air Base, West Germany
7. January 1979 - July 1980, action officer, Readiness Initiative Group, Directorate of Operations, later, Chief, Executive Committee, Air Force Budget Issues Team, Directorate of Plans, Congressional and External Affairs Division, Headquarters U.S. Air Force, Washington, D.C.
8. July 1980 - June 1982, Aide to the Commander in Chief, Headquarters U.S. Air Forces in Europe, and Commander, Allied Air Forces Central Europe, Ramstein Air Base, West Germany
9. September 1982 - May 1984, Commander, 10th Tactical Fighter Squadron, later, Assistant Deputy Commander for Operations, 50th Tactical Fighter Wing, Hahn Air Base, West Germany
10. May 1984 - July 1986, Executive Officer to the Air Force Chief of Staff, Headquarters U.S. Air Force, Washington, D.C.
11. July 1986 - July 1987, student, National War College, Fort Lesley J. McNair, Washington, D.C.
12. July 1987 - October 1990, Vice Commander, later, Commander, 363rd Tactical Fighter Wing, Shaw Air Force Base, S.C.
13. October 1990 - February 1991, Deputy Chief of Staff for Inspection, Safety and Security, Headquarters Tactical Air Command, Langley Air Force Base, Va.
14. February 1991 - February 1994, Director, Directorate of Programs and Evaluation, Headquarters U.S. Air Force, Washington, D.C.
15. February 1994 - June 1995, Director, Force Structure, Resources and Assessment, the Joint Staff, Washington, D.C.
16. June 1995 - June 1996, Deputy Chief of Staff for Plans and Operations, Headquarters U.S. Air Force, Washington, D.C.
17. June 1996 - June 1997, Commander, U.S. Forces, Japan, and Commander, 5th Air Force, Yokota Air Base, Japan
18. July 1997 - June 1999, Vice Chief of Staff, Headquarters U.S. Air Force, Washington, D.C.
19. June 1999 - February 2000, Commander, Air Combat Command, Langley Air Force Base, Va.
20. February 2000 – April 2002, Commander, North American Aerospace Defense Command, U.S. Space Command and Air Force Space Command; and Department of Defense Manager for Manned Space Flight Support Operations, Peterson Air Force Base, Colo.
21. April 2002 – present, Commander in Chief, North American Aerospace Defense Command; Commander, U.S. Space Command; and Department of Defense Manager for Manned Space Flight Support Operations, Peterson Air Force Base, Colo.

FLIGHT INFORMATION:

Rating: Command pilot
Flight hours: More than 4,500 hours
Aircraft flown: O-2, T-38, T-39, F-4E, RF-4C, F-16, F-15 and C-21

MAJOR AWARDS AND DECORATIONS:

Defense Distinguished Service Medal with oak leaf cluster
Distinguished Service Medal with oak leaf cluster
Legion of Merit with oak leaf cluster
Distinguished Flying Cross
Defense Meritorious Service Medal
Meritorious Service Medal with two oak leaf clusters
Air Medal with 11 oak leaf clusters
Air Force Commendation Medal
Presidential Unit Citation
Joint Meritorious Unit Award with oak leaf cluster
Air Force Outstanding Unit Award with oak leaf cluster
Combat Readiness Medal
National Defense Service Medal with service star
Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal with two service stars
Vietnam Service Medal with three service stars
Southwest Asia Service Medal with service star
Humanitarian Service Medal with service star
Air Force Overseas Ribbon - Short
Air Force Overseas Ribbon - Long with oak leaf cluster
Air Force Longevity Service Award Ribbon with seven oak leaf clusters
Small Arms Expert Marksmanship Ribbon
Air Force Training Ribbon
Republic of Vietnam Gallantry Cross with Palm
Republic of Vietnam Campaign Medal
Kuwait Liberation Medal (Government of Kuwait)
The Grand Cordon of the Order of the Sacred Treasure, Japan

OTHER ACHIEVEMENTS:

Able Aeronaut Award, Pacific Air Forces
General Jimmy Doolittle Award, Air Force Association
Distinguished Achievement Award, Air Force Association Tennessee Ernie Ford Chapter
Member, Council of Foreign Relations
Tom Lombardo Leadership Award, National Football Foundation and College Hall of Fame
Thomas D. White Space Award, Air Force Association
Air Force Order of the Sword, Air Force Space Command
General Bernard A. Schriever Award, Air Force Association

EFFECTIVE DATES OF PROMOTION:

Second Lieutenant Jun 5, 1968
First Lieutenant Dec 5, 1969
Captain Jun 5, 1971
Major Sep 1, 1979
Lieutenant Colonel Nov 1, 1981
Colonel Nov 1, 1984
Brigadier General Mar 1, 1991
Major General Jul 1, 1993
Lieutenant General Jul 1, 1995
General Aug 1, 1997

(Current as of July 2002)

AFLINK BIOGRAPHY INFO

39 posted on 07/22/2002 3:43:29 PM PDT by archy
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To: archy; Poohbah; B4Ranch
AUDIO n VIDEO President Eisenhower's historic farewell address to the Nation "In the counsels of Government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the Military Industrial Complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists, and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals so that security and liberty may prosper together." - President Eisenhower - January 1961
40 posted on 07/22/2002 3:55:55 PM PDT by USA21
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To: USA21
To me, as a retired military officer with over 23-years of active service, this option of the deployment of American troops inside of America was never in the cards.

We had a simple rule: Never point your weapons in the direction of 'friendlys.' So by simple extension, we as a military kept our weapons 'pointed' outside of our borders. Could it be that there may be some people view the American Citizens as 'Non-Friendly Personnel?'

As a college professor of political science, my view is once again pretty simplistic: The founding father's kept up the cadence in the early years of this Republic that a standing Federal Military on American soil was a threat to the peoples liberty, and the soveriegn rights of the States. If I accept the founders position on 'All men being created equal...with rights granted by natures God' then I have to believe that they were quite correct in this respect also.

Our Federal Military Weapons should be 'pointed' outside of our borders. Period.

41 posted on 07/22/2002 4:27:09 PM PDT by Van Jenerette
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To: USA21
At least the Military has been ready for this for almost ten years, now.

Question 46. The stated scenario

46. The U.S. government declares a ban on the possession, sale, transportation, and transfer of all non-sporting firearms. A thirty (30) day amnesty period is permitted for these firearms to be turned over to the local authorities. At the end of this p eriod, a number of citizen groups refuse to turn over their firearms.
The statement that the U.S. Marines were asked to respond to:

I would fire upon U.S. citizens who refuse or resist confiscation of firearms banned by the U.S. government.

No opinion Strongly disagree Disagree Agree Strongly agree

The Responses

Of the 300 U.S. Marines asked this question, 264, or 88% of them responded.

The outcome of the survey was as follows:

Strongly disagree 127 42.33%

Disagree 58 19.33%

Agree 56 18.67%

Strongly agree 23 07.67%

No opinion 36 12.00%

Total: 300 100.00%


Summary of the responses to question 46.

The survey results indicated that 61.66% (42.33 + 19.33) said they would refuse to fire on U.S. citizens, whereas 26.34% (18.67 + 7.67) indicated they would fire. According to Lt. Cdr. Guy Cunningham, the author of the thesis and designer of the survey qu estions; "This particular question, unlike the others, elicited from 15.97 percent of the respondents with an opinion, either heavier pen or pencil remarks on their response or written comments in the margin space."

Is there a problem here?

What troubles Lt. Cdr. Cunningham and other opponents of using U.S. military forces for U.N. peacekeeping and non-traditional missions within United States territories is the 26.34% indicating they would fire.

In another scenario, such a significant minority could be separated from those unwilling to shoot their fellow citizens, and easily organized into a unit that would obey such orders.
42 posted on 07/22/2002 4:28:58 PM PDT by taaminator
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To: USA21
AFAIK the only exemption to Posse Comitatus is when nuclear materials are involved. So, if there are terrorists in CONUS who are attempting to set of a "dirty nuke" bomb, the military can intervene here.

The only other exemptions I'd make are if biological or chemical weapons are involved, and that is only because the military has expertise that local LE and FD's often lack.

Otherwise, leave the cops and sheriffs responsible for law enforcement.

43 posted on 07/22/2002 4:37:02 PM PDT by gieriscm
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To: Linda
I certainly hope that we never get to the point where we have troops stationed on street corners. They can guard our borders. I have no problem with that. But, when American troops assume police authority within the US, we will be in deep trouble. And, this is one time when the terrorists will have won.
44 posted on 07/23/2002 6:55:44 PM PDT by Don Myers
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