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Ancient Atomic Warfare - Religious texts and geological evidence
New York Herald Tribune on February 16, 1947 ^ | New York Herald Tribune on February 16, 1947 | Ivan T. Sanderson

Posted on 07/22/2002 2:01:00 PM PDT by vannrox

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To: Freedom4US
"...Glass is not a liquid..."!!!!

Erp. Where did you go to school? How do you think glass is made? Jeeze! What about "float Glass"?
51 posted on 07/23/2002 8:02:44 AM PDT by vannrox
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To: john in missouri
let's apply a little logic.

why start now?

52 posted on 07/23/2002 1:46:30 PM PDT by fourdeuce82d
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To: jodorowsky
true history bump.
53 posted on 07/23/2002 1:54:58 PM PDT by freeforall
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To: vannrox
So I can find it later BTT
54 posted on 07/23/2002 2:00:55 PM PDT by Fellow Traveler
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To: blam
The Gods Must Be Crazy

LOL!
That's where I first learned of the evil Coca Cola bottle and now the plot thickens!
55 posted on 07/23/2002 9:09:53 PM PDT by lizma
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To: lizma
"That's where I first learned of the evil Coca Cola bottle and now the plot thickens!"

I'll be darned, someone got it.

56 posted on 07/23/2002 9:15:36 PM PDT by blam
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To: Swordmaker
THE GLASSY STATE

http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/General/Glass/glass.html

A must-click for you and everyone who has visited this page. Guaranteed to interest you.

57 posted on 08/05/2004 9:37:07 AM PDT by CarrotAndStick (The articles posted by me needn't necessarily reflect my opinion.)
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To: Axenolith
Well, silly as all of this seems, on some level, there is that old quote, which, by the way, I saw the newsreel of, with the original soundtrack, from Dr. Robert Oppenheimer during his first press conference after the USA's use of a nuclear weapon was made public, wherein, when asked if the test explosion at Trinity Site was the first man-made nuclear explosion, he responded, somewhat strangely, "Yes, it was . . . in modern times." Amazingly, none of the members of the press followed up on his odd qualification of his answer.

Just to pour more speculative fuel on the fire, at the time that the Trinity nuke was lighting up the New Mexico desert, Dr. Oppenheimer recited a few lines from the Mahabharata, "I am Shiva, the destroyer of worlds . . ." Why mention it? Because the Mahabharata, which had a place on Oppy's bookshelf, is the epic Indian tale of a high tech war between two alien cultures that allegedly took place in prehistoric India, the culmination of which was the discharge of nuclear missiles from flying vehicles.

Having said all of that, it is an easy thing to agree that it makes no sense that there could be a nuclear war in the prehistoric period without there being substantial evidence of high tech society being extant. Even in the aforesaid Canticle for Leibowitz, there were references to the existence of such irradiated artifacts here and there.

Intriguingly, there are a few artifacts, although so few as to underline the skeptics' point. For instance, new archaeological digs in India of Happen ruins are detecting unusually high levels of radioactivity. The data need a lot of examination, but the obvious (although extremely unlikely) possibility is that it is evidence of the Mahabharatan war.

There is also a complex of pipes and conduits in some rock mounds on the shore of a lake high in the mountains of China, a place long associated in local folk tales with the descent of people from the sky. The weird part about the pipes is that this is a location that never saw any known development of civilization or development of any kind, beyond primitive, low population mountain dweller settlements. Why would anyone install a complex array of modern-appearing pipes into the rocks of this area? The initial evidence indicated that these pipes were placed there in the prehistoric period. The Chinese government was sufficiently impressed by the initial evidence that it sent an expedition of scientists to the site. Several news reports were issued on the launching of this expedition three years ago. Unfortunately, there have been no reports since then on the expedition's outcome.

Next, there is the use of large sheets of mica between layers of stone in the ancient structures of Shank, a rather odd ancient architectural practice, as mica has no structural strength, and placing it behind a layer of stone meant it was not decorative. However, mica is very useful for shielding against radio waves and electromagnetic pulse (EMP) radiation. The mica used at this particular site came from far away in the Amazon Basin of Brazil and was transported in sheets as large as 23.5 meters square, no mean feat for a primitive society. Why did they go to all of that bother?

One more tidbit about ancient "modernism": there are a huge number of records in the Smithsonian and in the archives of the geology section at Harvard concerning anomalous finds in solid lumps of coal mined in the eastern half of the US, from Illinois to the East Coast. Such items as decorated metal pots and finely-wrought gold chains were found imbedded in the 360 million year old carbon rock. Now, it makes little sense that such things would be so, since the Carboniferous predated the rise of humans (according to conventional wisdom) by approximately 300 million years give or take a fews tens of millions. Were every one of these finds hoaxes? No explanation was offered in the dry accounts of the two institutions. They were merely recorded and buried, as is so much anomalous evidence. So, there is actually some evidence of earlier "modern" civilization, but it is sketchy and scattered . . . and far less impressive than, say, a scorched collection of skyscrapers or sediment-covered space shuttle might be.

Still, the trinitrite is out there, with more being found all of the time.

Just because we all believe it, doesn't make it so.

Sir Robert
58 posted on 06/12/2005 11:52:20 PM PDT by SIR_ROBERT
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To: SIR_ROBERT

Very interesting Oppenheimer quote, I hadn't heard that.

Also, as to anamolous finds, geologically speaking, we'd be very fortunate to find significant evidence of our civilization existing past a few hundred thousand years. If the Earth became barren of water, or froze up in an apocalyptic ice age, it would preserve a significant part, but when you're talking 100 million years, you're seeing geologic processes begin to really remove the evidence. Odd note on the Carboniferous artifacts, they are in a depositional environment ideally suited for long term preservation.

The only drawback to that is that organisms buried in an organic rich reducing environment can undergo replacement fossilization by compounds such as pyrite, which could look like jewelry or a pot depending on the organism.

I've run into some iron oxide forms in solid granite that have looked pretty odd, but for artifacts, that would be an indication of objects being carried through the subduction and partial melting cycle.

One thing that has always intrigued me was the little solid gold delta wing "aircraft" found in Incan (?) ruins. those were bizarre, and a few years back they found some petroglyphs near here in Contra Costa County that were shut up tight as all get out immediately after one CCTimes story. I read the story (and saved it somewhere) and saw the picture the photographer had snapped. The first thought that came to my mind was "B24 Liberator". It was that spot on, twin boom tail, 4 engine nacelles... and the caption read "petroglyph of a bird". Primitive man, even in his stick figure glory days, wasn't that far off on the drawing skills...

I've heard not a peep about that site since.


59 posted on 06/13/2005 9:25:55 PM PDT by Axenolith (This space for rent...)
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To: 75thOVI; AndrewC; Avoiding_Sulla; BenLurkin; Berosus; CGVet58; chilepepper; ckilmer; demlosers; ...
from 2002!!!
Catastrophism

60 posted on 05/15/2006 10:31:14 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: SunkenCiv

http://glenavalon.com/ldglass.html


61 posted on 05/16/2006 4:34:14 AM PDT by BenLurkin (O beautiful for patriot dream - that sees beyond the years)
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To: BenLurkin; SunkenCiv
Science 3 March 2006: Vol. 311. no. 5765, p. 1223 DOI: 10.1126/science.311.5765.1223c

Random Samples

In December 1932, scientists surveying the southern Egyptian desert came upon pieces of a translucent, pale yellow-green, glassy substance, from tiny fragments to football-sized chunks, scattered over a huge area at the Libyan border. Known as Libyan desert glass, this almost pure silica contained isotopes showing it to be of extraterrestrial origin. But scientists haven't been able to figure out where it came from. Now Farouk El-Baz, director of the Boston University Center for Remote Sensing, believes the mystery has been solved. This month, poring over satellite images of the Sahara Desert, he found a gigantic impact crater in the area. At a diameter of 30 kilometers, it's "the largest crater yet found in the Sahara," El-Baz says, and big enough to be the source of the glass, which covers a 60- by 100-kilometer area. He believes the crater hadn't been recognized before because it is so big; also, parts of its rims were eroded by two ancient river systems. El-Baz has named the crater, located on the Gilf Kebir plateau, the Kebira. "This is a large crater and well worth scientific investigation," says Friedrich Horz, a crater expert at the Johnson Space Center in Houston, Texas.

CREDIT: LANDSAT

I imagine you know about this recent discovery...

and this is my personal favourite - desert glass embedded with little spherules, ain't it pretty?

Thanks for the ping, I will now continue reading this fascinating post.

62 posted on 05/16/2006 9:41:29 PM PDT by Fred Nerks (Read the bio THE LIFE OF MUHAMMAD free! Click Fred Nerks for link to my Page.)
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To: SunkenCiv

Libyan Desert Glass.

http://www.fjexpeditions.com/frameset/waunamus.htm

63 posted on 05/16/2006 10:03:41 PM PDT by Fred Nerks (Read the bio THE LIFE OF MUHAMMAD free! Click Fred Nerks for link to my Page.)
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To: Swordmaker; Freedom4US
[Glass is not a liquid, this is an urban legend.]

Your urban legend is about to be trumped by the Cornell Museum of Glass

No, it isn't. Nothing in your link states that glass is a liquid. It only says that it has *disordered molecules* like most liquids do, but that's not the same as saying that it *is* a liquid. Having disordered molecules is not what makes something a liquid -- having *mobile* molecules in contact with each other is.

64 posted on 05/16/2006 11:19:30 PM PDT by Ichneumon (Ignorance is curable, but the afflicted has to want to be cured.)
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To: blam
That is one of the worst movies ever made. I swear in the early history of HBO it must have been one of the few they could afford. It was on constantly.

L

65 posted on 05/16/2006 11:27:05 PM PDT by Lurker (Insanity is repeating the same action again and again yet expecting different results.)
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To: SIR_ROBERT
The mica used at this particular site came from far away in the Amazon Basin of Brazil and was transported in sheets as large as 23.5 meters square, no mean feat for a primitive society. Why did they go to all of that bother?

Maybe they liked it because it's shiny and they found out that other primitive tribes liked shiny things as well. It could have been used in trade, like the mother of pearl that was traded by the early Native Americans.

L

66 posted on 05/16/2006 11:30:48 PM PDT by Lurker (Insanity is repeating the same action again and again yet expecting different results.)
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To: Ichneumon
No, it isn't. Nothing in your link states that glass is a liquid. It only says that it has *disordered molecules* like most liquids do, but that's not the same as saying that it *is* a liquid. Having disordered molecules is not what makes something a liquid -- having *mobile* molecules in contact with each other is.

The Cornell Museum of Glass provided the information that glass had some of the same attributes as liquids.

The answer provided by the University of California Riverside Physics department (interesting read) is:

There is no clear answer to the question "Is glass solid or liquid?". In terms of molecular dynamics and thermodynamics it is possible to justify various different views that it is a highly viscous liquid, an amorphous solid, or simply that glass is another state of matter which is neither liquid nor solid. The difference is semantic. In terms of its material properties we can do little better. There is no clear definition of the distinction between solids and highly viscous liquids. All such phases or states of matter are idealisations of real material properties. Nevertheless, from a more common sense point of view, glass should be considered a solid since it is rigid according to every day experience. The use of the term "supercooled liquid" to describe glass still persists, but is considered by many to be an unfortunate misnomer that should be avoided. In any case, claims that glass panes in old windows have deformed due to glass flow have never been substantiated. Examples of Roman glassware and calculations based on measurements of glass visco-properties indicate that these claims cannot be true. The observed features are more easily explained as a result of the imperfect methods used to make glass window panes before the float glass process was invented.

That trumps the "urban legend" claim... as did the Cornell Museum. And that was my point. To simply dismiss a question such as this as an "urban legend" is not at all accurate.

67 posted on 05/17/2006 12:01:05 AM PDT by Swordmaker (Remember, the proper pronunciation of IE is "AAAAIIIIIEEEEEEE!")
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To: vannrox

Green glass could just be from extreme temperatures of many kinds.

A comet or meteor hitting ground might do that, right?


68 posted on 05/17/2006 12:03:35 AM PDT by A CA Guy (God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: Swordmaker
In any case, claims that glass panes in old windows have deformed due to glass flow have never been substantiated.

What do I win? :)
69 posted on 05/17/2006 6:28:50 AM PDT by Freedom4US
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To: vannrox

Oh man! Ivan Sanderson! I remember listening to him on the old Barry Farber radio show when I was a kid! Always had something interesting.


70 posted on 05/17/2006 6:37:34 AM PDT by CaptRon (Pedecaris alive or Raisuli dead)
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To: Freedom4US
What do I win? :)

A chunk of old glass... it has been delivered to you at the closest empty lot to your house...

71 posted on 05/17/2006 5:46:08 PM PDT by Swordmaker (Remember, the proper pronunciation of IE is "AAAAIIIIIEEEEEEE!")
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To: vannrox


http://thatvideosite.com/view/2323.html


72 posted on 05/17/2006 5:50:15 PM PDT by js1138 (Well I say there are some things we don't want to know! Important things!")
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An oldie. Just updating the GGG information, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
Gods, Graves, Glyphs PING list or GGG weekly digest
-- Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

73 posted on 07/22/2006 10:24:36 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (updated my FR profile on Wednesday, June 21, 2006. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: CaptRon
Ivan T. Sanderson also used to write in the True Magazine. I believe that I recall an article of his that there was an unknown life form which lived in the Earth's atmosphere. This was determined because there were certain vitamins in rain. (as I recall)
74 posted on 07/23/2006 5:46:01 PM PDT by Citizen Tom Paine (An old sailor sends)
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To: vannrox

IN 2101 B.C....
...WAR WAS BEGINNING.


75 posted on 07/23/2006 5:53:56 PM PDT by RichInOC (UR-NAMMU: WHAT HAPPEN? SHULGI: SOMEBODY SET UP US THE BOMB.)
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Terrestrial Evidence of a Nuclear Catastrophe in Paleoindian Times
Mammoth Trumpet | March 2001 | Firestone/Topping
Posted on 07/24/2006 3:03:03 AM EDT by ForGod’sSake
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1671134/posts


76 posted on 09/02/2007 6:34:02 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Profile updated Wednesday, August 29, 2007. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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The Cycle of Cosmic Catastrophes: Flood, Fire, and Famine in the History of Civilization The Cycle of Cosmic Catastrophes:
Flood, Fire, and Famine
in the History of Civilization

by Richard Firestone, Allen West, and Simon Warwick-Smith


77 posted on 09/02/2007 6:35:59 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Profile updated Wednesday, August 29, 2007. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: vannrox

ping for later read...


78 posted on 09/07/2008 9:11:31 PM PDT by Redcitizen (I need ammunition like a day needs sunshine. =))
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To: vannrox

It is believed in some circles that Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed by nuclear bombs. Lot’s wife turned into a certain mineral salt that is only possible due to nuclear exposure.


79 posted on 05/22/2010 7:19:32 PM PDT by Ancient Drive (DRINK COFFEE! - Do Stupid Things Faster with More Energy!)
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To: vannrox

there was the war in the heavens... maybe these vitrified remains are the remnants of such a conflict.


80 posted on 05/22/2010 7:26:08 PM PDT by Ancient Drive (DRINK COFFEE! - Do Stupid Things Faster with More Energy!)
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To: vannrox

I’m starting to believe we off’ed ourselves a couple million years ago... we going down the same path again.


81 posted on 05/22/2010 7:32:10 PM PDT by Ancient Drive (DRINK COFFEE! - Do Stupid Things Faster with More Energy!)
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