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Justice Dept. Forges Ahead with TIPS, Despite Armey Ban.
St. Louis Post-Dispatch ^ | July 21st, 2002 | Karen Branch-Brioso

Posted on 07/23/2002 10:13:33 AM PDT by WyldKard

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To: Kaslin
the justice department ignoring a congressional attempt to curtain its power -- by a prominent Republican, no less -- is ok to you? Lack of Constitutional control over an out-of-control bureaucracy is good? And *we're* the ones who are pathetic?
21 posted on 07/23/2002 11:05:30 AM PDT by WindMinstrel
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To: Kaslin
Ok lets close our eyes and stuff cotton in our ears so we can't hear and see what the terrorists are up to. Sounds good to me....Not..You people are pathetic. This has nothing to do with spying on the average citizen but trying to prevent other terrorist attacks

News flash - the feds cannot even process the data they are already receiving, let alone handle the volumes this program would create - and that's only a practical objection to this. There are plenty of mechanisms for people already out and about, in the course of their daily activities, to see if something is going on, without coming up with a way to create millions of warrantless searches by non-law-enforcement personnel. And what makes you think Ashcroft will not be tempted at some point to expand this program away from terrorism into other venues, such as the war on drugs. Remember how that certain road is paved...

22 posted on 07/23/2002 11:05:57 AM PDT by dirtboy
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To: Kaslin
Gimme a break. The Feds already have all the tools they need to stop terrorism in our country. How about sealing the borders? What about deporting Islamic ragheads who overstay their visa?

You are the blind one if you think that a future administration under a different man will not use this vast expanse of federal power to monitor 'right-wing extremists' (ie Evangelical Christians, gun-owners, pro-life organizations, and homeschoolers). Government has proved time and time again that once a new federal chain has been put in place, it is never removed.

23 posted on 07/23/2002 11:09:01 AM PDT by fogarty
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To: WyldKard
Here's another government program that we don't like and are willing to let the other side dominate and use against us. We gave big government to the other side and we're paying dearly for it. We gave the social and cultural agenda to them and we may never recover from that. We think something that we don't like will go away simply because we don't like it or don't support it..... Again: if we are not part of it, then it can't be good; it can't be balanced; it can't be countered from within....
24 posted on 07/23/2002 11:11:57 AM PDT by Consort
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To: Kaslin
Try mixing TIPS with this statement from an official spokesman for the Justice Department:

Mark Corallo, spokesman for the Justice Department, says the president as commander in chief can designate anyone an enemy combatant -- American or not, here or abroad. [emphasis mine] "(In this war on terrorism) America is the battlefield," he says, and no congressional statute can override the president's constitutional military authority.

So you wish to give the Justice Department its own pipeline of suspects, and then let them designate someone an enemy combatant and hold them indefinitely without charging them or giving them a hearing before a court of law, and without Congressional overview? That, quite frankly, smacks of totalitarianism.

25 posted on 07/23/2002 11:13:22 AM PDT by dirtboy
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To: Kaslin
Just wait until the demokrats have it all back. They will use this to further divide Americans and raise the level of incivility to new heights. Then they will play us like a tune on their saxaphone.
26 posted on 07/23/2002 11:14:39 AM PDT by CWRWinger
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To: Scholastic
Suprise! "Stroke of the Pen, law of the land. Kinda cool."

Meet the new boss....

27 posted on 07/23/2002 11:18:26 AM PDT by steve-b
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To: Kaslin
"Ok lets close our eyes and stuff cotton in our ears so we can't hear and see what the terrorists are up to. Sounds good to me....Not..You people are pathetic. This has nothing to do with spying on the average citizen but trying to prevent other terrorist attacks."

I see. Can you explain to this pathetic dolt what history has taugh us about policies like this? Can you trust everyone in Governemt to do the right thing? Mind you now, a crime is a crime. By reporting one to law enforcement agencies they are by law required to take action. For example, the meterman is taking his meter readings and notices that you have an illegal cable hook up. So he does his job and reports it. Do you think the police are just going to say forget that it has nothing to do with terrorism? Better yet, a college professor is getting magazines from middle east publications as part of his job. So the mailman notices this and reports this. What do you think the police are going to do? Say forget about it because his last name is Jones?

I am all for properly fighting the war against terrorism. But not at a cost of our Liberties. If things get this bad there are provisions in the law to handle this. In my opinion this is nothing but a huge power grab.

It's people like you who blindly follow without investigating, understanding history and questioning policies like this one who are pathetic and dangerous.

28 posted on 07/23/2002 11:20:02 AM PDT by habaes corpussel
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To: WyldKard
Jorge W. Bush is gonna follow in Daddy's footsteps. ONE TERM!
29 posted on 07/23/2002 11:21:40 AM PDT by Area51
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To: Area51
Jorge W. Bush is gonna follow in Daddy's footsteps. ONE TERM!

I'd be all happy dancy for that, if it weren't for the fact that whoever takes his place will probably be worse, or at best, no better.

This is really starting to fill me with a sense of dispair(sp?)
30 posted on 07/23/2002 11:24:56 AM PDT by WyldKard
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To: All
"Mark Corallo, spokesman for the Justice Department, says the president as commander in chief can designate anyone an enemy combatant -- American or not, here or abroad. [emphasis mine] "(In this war on terrorism) America is the battlefield," he says, and no congressional statute can override the president's constitutional military authority."

This is OUTRAGOUS! O-U-T-R-A-G-O-U-S! Nothing in the Current Joint Resolution give the President anywhere near this Authority.

31 posted on 07/23/2002 11:28:37 AM PDT by habaes corpussel
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To: WindMinstrel
When you think about it, a rogue Justice department is the only real way we could see a coup in the US, isn't it?

Hey, look at the bright side. In 2004, when GW re-signs the "Crime Bill", and many "conservatives" who would have voted for him go to thrid parties, the Democratic president will have all these new toys at his/her disposal. I can't wait!

32 posted on 07/23/2002 11:30:03 AM PDT by FreeTally
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To: WyldKard
Shouldn't that be Ministry of Fawning and Slober?
33 posted on 07/23/2002 11:31:18 AM PDT by DoughtyOne
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To: dirtboy
"Mark Corallo, spokesman for the Justice Department, says the president as commander in chief can designate anyone an enemy combatant -- American or not, here or abroad. [emphasis mine] "(In this war on terrorism) America is the battlefield," he says, and no congressional statute can override the president's constitutional military authority."

Please post the entire statement...Thanks

34 posted on 07/23/2002 11:31:28 AM PDT by habaes corpussel
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To: Kaslin
the feds cannot even process the data they are already receiving

Bingo! More information is not necessarily better and can be counterproductive, as we saw with 9/11. All the data was already there to predict, had been for years. Hell, the government won't even listen to its own bureaucrats and informants. And do you really believe that a meter reader who walked into the basement of an apartment house wouldn't contact somebody if she saw, for example, a box from Iraq with biohazard labels all over it?

What this program has the potential to be turned into is far worse than the benefits. Remember Waco, when Janet and her feds killed the children in order to save them from "child abuse". What would you think about a specific directive from TIPS to federalized peeping toms to be on the lookout for oh, say, people who get regular ammunition shipments and subscribe to right wing magazines like SOF.

Just curious. Do you approve of the power of the IRS to know the source and expenditure of every dime of income you make, and track all your cash expenditures and withdrawals over a certain amount?

35 posted on 07/23/2002 11:33:14 AM PDT by Jesse
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To: CWRWinger
Just wait until the demokrats have it all back. They will use this to further divide Americans and raise the level of incivility to new heights. Then they will play us like a tune on their saxaphone.

Yep! And GW will be one term when he re-signs the "Crime Bill" in 2004. I am beginning to think this is all no coincidence. A "disputed" 2000 election which leaves some bitter today - followed by new laws and programs no "conservative" would have supported if a Democrat was in the Whitehouse - couple this with GW re-signing a bill that conservatives screamed about(and consider the dems say the gun lobby got GW elected) = Democratic president with all these new powers! Damn, I couldn't have written a better script myself.....

36 posted on 07/23/2002 11:33:51 AM PDT by FreeTally
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To: habaes corpussel
I got it from this thread, and that's about all that was in that particular story. I'll see if I can get a direct link:

President doesn't have absolute military authority over Americans

37 posted on 07/23/2002 11:36:12 AM PDT by dirtboy
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To: dirtboy
Thank you
38 posted on 07/23/2002 11:38:32 AM PDT by habaes corpussel
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To: Fred Mertz; All
Ethel and I are gonna go to DC if this stuff dosn't quit!

One of the goodies of TIPS is to give you a decal to put on your vehicle.

Yep, I want a government snitch decal on my car when I park or drive in the ghetto!

This regime had better decide if they really want to win this "war".

Then they had better get on with it.

MEMO TO BUSH: Use the nfo you already have.Seal the borders.Deport all ME's.Be conservative.Smaller goverment.Less taxes.Less BS!
39 posted on 07/23/2002 3:42:33 PM PDT by Betty Jo
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To: FreeTally
RE: Post #36

Well said, FreeTally. I agree.

40 posted on 07/23/2002 5:15:47 PM PDT by CWRWinger
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