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Space rock 'on collision course'
BBC ^ | 2002-07-23 | Dr David Whitehouse

Posted on 07/23/2002 7:00:00 PM PDT by Lorenb420

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To: Sam Cree
But are you saying that there is nothing that humanity can do to defend earth from such an event?

Not at all; there's just not much we can do about it now. The two things we need are deliverable propulsion mechanisms (I recommend nuclear rockets for the near term) and a lot of lead time. The longer the lead time, the less integrated thrust we need. The best method would be to identify all of the potential doomsday rocks and affix solar sails to them. Small amounts of thrust could be applied continuously to the rocks without the need to replenish the fuel supply. The sails could be tacked by commands from Earth so that the thrust is always in a useful direction. After enough time, all of the rocks so equipped could be steered into orbits that don't ever cross Earth's orbit. (It is also possible that some of them could be steered so that they enter into orbit about the Earth someday.)

As for the rock that will potentially hit us in 2019, I doubt we could deliver enough delta-v to it to change the probability of collision. We don't have an efficient method of exerting thrust upon it, we don't have a vehicle capable of hauling such a thrust mechanism to it, the lead time is short enough that the integrated thrust requirements are already substantial, and those requirements are increasing as the inverse of the remaining lead time.

Then again, necessity is the mother of invention.

81 posted on 07/27/2002 12:20:07 PM PDT by Physicist
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To: Physicist
Thanks for your fascinating reply. I hope the damn thing misses.
82 posted on 07/27/2002 12:33:17 PM PDT by Sam Cree
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To: Physicist; rmlew
The delta-v required to make it miss the Earth, if it's really on a collision course with Earth in 2019, is probably far beyond our capabilities.
"The error in our knowledge of where NT7 will be on 1 February 2019 is large, several tens of millions of kms," he said.
Given that the earth's radius is only 4000 miles (less than 6000km), the ratio of its cross section to the area within which the data suggest the nearest-approach to occur is less than 36 million divided by the square of 20 million. I reckon the odds against a collision are at least 10 million to one.
Earth May End
in 17 Years"

sounds about right--as Newspaper headlines go . . .

But as a practical matter nothing can be done until such time, if any, as we know the direction from the earth's center to the closest approach. And nothing should be done until the uncertainty is reduced to less than one million klicks. If there's still a possible problem it would be time to start working on a launch against it. You'd want to launch two, for some redundancy.

You wouldn't want to launch at all if that direction was so easily determined that you knew the collision hazzard was zero, but you'd want them to arrive as soon as you knew the direction of the closest approach. And if you were truly sure of that direction, and that you were pushing to increase the miss distance, you'd about as well to use the nukes once they arrived on target. You aren't gonna deflect it by very much, so you have to push ASAP and you have to push in the right direction.

It could be true that you can't possibly prevent the collision, because by the time you can know which way to push the asteroid is too close. But that depends on the mass of the asteroid and on how centered on the earth the asteroid is targeted. I guess you time your launch, if any, on your best guess as to how soon you have to know the direction to be able to do any good. And you decide which way to deflect only as you have the opportunity to attempt to do so.

83 posted on 07/27/2002 1:37:52 PM PDT by conservatism_IS_compassion
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To: Lorenb420
Well...if we can't stop it, can we at least nudge it so it will land in Saudi arabia?
84 posted on 07/27/2002 1:54:26 PM PDT by Vinnie_Vidi_Vici
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To: conservatism_IS_compassion
It could be true that you can't possibly prevent the collision, because by the time you can know which way to push the asteroid is too close.

It's all a question of how well you've measured the trajectory and how much computing power you can throw at the problem. If you've tracked it long enough, you can predict where it's going to go to within a gnat's eyebrow.

85 posted on 07/27/2002 3:11:10 PM PDT by Physicist
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To: Physicist
If you've tracked it long enough, you can predict where it's going to go to within a gnat's eyebrow.
. . . and if you've tracked it long enough, it has already either hit or, more likely by far, missed by hundreds of miles. The bigger object you find, the less effect you can have on its trajectory with a given bopper--and the sooner you'd better bop it, so the effect accumulates over time.

The conclusion is that you do well to detect early, and to refine your estimate of trajectory rapidly when you do detect. Does Hubble's different perspective help, and would a deep space probe be enough better to justify its cost?


86 posted on 07/27/2002 4:01:22 PM PDT by conservatism_IS_compassion
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To: Lorenb420
Cool.

I have a career path for my 12 year old.

Asteroid Exploder

87 posted on 07/27/2002 4:06:15 PM PDT by don-o
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To: jackbill
I just heard that the President of France is broadcasting a surrender message.

LOL!!!

What's the frequemcy, Kenneth?

88 posted on 07/27/2002 4:11:21 PM PDT by don-o
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To: conservatism_IS_compassion
Does Hubble's different perspective help, and would a deep space probe be enough better to justify its cost?

They don't use Hubble for tracking asteroids, and I'm not sure it could do a far better job than a smaller, ground-based telescope. The first order of business is to find the darn things, and for that you need more eyes rather than better eyes.

I'm just guessing here, but I expect that the biggest advantage to a space-based telescope would be to give you a long baseline for parallax measurements. If that's right, the goal would be to get the space-based telescope as far away from Earth as possible. Perhaps a Moon-based telescope would be a good solution.

89 posted on 07/27/2002 5:00:34 PM PDT by Physicist
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To: Physicist
the biggest advantage to a space-based telescope would be to give you a long baseline for parallax measurements
. . . which would seem to argue for getting a telescope into deep space to get some serious parallax. Possibly a Pluto-type solar orbit?

90 posted on 07/27/2002 6:01:15 PM PDT by conservatism_IS_compassion
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To: conservatism_IS_compassion
Possibly a Pluto-type solar orbit?

No, that would not be useful. Most Earth-crossing asteroids are going to have orbits that are comparable to Earth's orbit, so the baseline you really need is much smaller than that. Further, you'd need one amazing telescope--a super-Hubble--to spot something so faint from that far out, and you sure can't service it out there. And finally, it would take many years to get such a device into such an orbit, assuming you had the capability to launch such an monster out there.

91 posted on 07/27/2002 6:16:23 PM PDT by Physicist
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To: Physicist; longshadow; RadioAstronomer; Scully; VadeRetro
Just found this on Drudge: Asteroid to miss - this time around .
92 posted on 07/29/2002 4:29:26 PM PDT by PatrickHenry
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To: PatrickHenry
If they have to nudge an asteroid so it misses, fine. But funny thing, asteroids keep going around the sun and come back again. This could get expensive. Best capture the asteroid the first time and be done with it. And then use it for a source of raw materials to make things.
93 posted on 07/29/2002 4:33:00 PM PDT by RightWhale
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To: Lorenb420
whose job is it to protect the earth from collisions with asteroids? if america does the deed can we charge for our services?
94 posted on 07/29/2002 4:35:54 PM PDT by CaptainAwesome
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To: PatrickHenry
This is because no past observations - that could be used to pinpoint its trajectory - have been found in astronomical archives. This is because the asteroid's unusual orbit takes it into regions of space that are seldom surveyed,/p>

Wait a tick...they have only ONE data point and they have already decided we're in the clear???

95 posted on 07/29/2002 5:34:17 PM PDT by Scully
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To: Scully
Since then astronomers worldwide have been paying close attention to it, amassing almost 200 observations in a few weeks.

I stand corrected...pardon.

96 posted on 07/29/2002 5:37:13 PM PDT by Scully
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To: Scully
True the need three observations to get a solution. However, if the three points are close together the orbit will be known less well than if the three points are spread out more. The other thing is that the orbit will change when the body is deflected by passing through a gravity well or if it collides with something. So they will need to track this one and all the others from here on, plus they will need to keep tracking it even if they deliberately deflect the orbit becuse it will come around again.
97 posted on 07/29/2002 5:42:32 PM PDT by RightWhale
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To: PatrickHenry
Dr Yeomans added: "While we cannot completely rule out an impact possibility for 1 February 2060, it seems very likely that this possibility will soon be ruled out as well."
I'll be 110 on 1 Feb, 2060. If it doesn't get me then, it probably won't get me.
98 posted on 07/29/2002 5:45:25 PM PDT by VadeRetro
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To: VadeRetro
I dimly recall an old SF story in one of the pulp magazines, about a guy who devoted all his time to computing orbits of objects like this asteroid, and he had a bunch of cannon balls in his cellar. After doing his calculations, he would roll one of the balls a few feet, and then declare that by this tiny movement, he had deflected a comet's collision with the earth, which he had calculated would happpen in around 200 years. Then he would return to his equations to work out another orbit, etc. I have no recollection of how the story ended. Maybe we owe this "near miss" to his efforts.
99 posted on 07/29/2002 6:14:00 PM PDT by PatrickHenry
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To: RightWhale; RadioAstronomer
The other thing is that the orbit will change when the body is deflected by passing through a gravity well or if it collides with something.

Which of course it will, given Murphy's Law. These astronomers are a bit too glib with their prognostications (apologies to RadioAstronomer - who would NEVER make such an assertion without sufficient data).

100 posted on 07/29/2002 6:40:27 PM PDT by Scully
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