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Civilian Casualties: No Apology Needed
Wall St Journal ^ | July 25, 2002 | RALPH PETERS

Posted on 07/25/2002 5:14:32 AM PDT by SJackson

Edited on 04/22/2004 11:46:49 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

Earlier this week, Israel succeeded in killing Salah Shehada, a savage Hamas mastermind, and one of his top aides. A dozen Palestinian civilians died in the attack, including members of Shehada's family. The civilian deaths may be lamentable, but they also were justifiable. A terrorist leader used his relatives and neighbors as shields, and they died with him. Their deaths were Shehada's fault, not Israel's.


(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Israel
KEYWORDS:

1 posted on 07/25/2002 5:14:32 AM PDT by SJackson
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To: SJackson
My thoughts exactly. Glad someone finally said it.
2 posted on 07/25/2002 5:17:42 AM PDT by OldBlondBabe
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To: SJackson
4th Geneva Convention Relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War, Part 3, Article 1, Section 28: "The presence of a protected person (aka civilian noncombatant) may not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations."
3 posted on 07/25/2002 5:18:21 AM PDT by BlueLancer
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To: SJackson
The truly sad thing is, this type of commentary will never see the light of day in major media - simply because it sheds light on the truth of the matter, and that will never coincide with left-wing ideals. The Palestinians for years have intentionally targeted Israeli civilians through suicide/homicide bombings, but the second any innocent or even not-so-innocent Palestinian is killed because of their presence as a human shield, the left-wing talkiong heads scream atrocities. I am so fed up with the liberal bias on this and many other issues, I'll probably have a stroke before I turn 40. God bless the Israelis.
4 posted on 07/25/2002 5:38:48 AM PDT by Spacetrucker
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To: Spacetrucker
#4...I don't know what you consider major media....

...but I am hearing 'similar sentiments' from others on the tube...

...Fred Barnes on Brit Humes newshour (+ someone else, but his name escapes me).......

...but Barnes, the WSJ & others are voicing this, and rightly so.

5 posted on 07/25/2002 5:44:54 AM PDT by Guenevere
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To: Guenevere
I apologize for not being more specific.
The Usual Suspects: ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN. Invariably, they report from such a slanted view that you have to wonder what kind of chemicals the news editors use at those stations. FOX is, has and will continue to be the only major TV news outlet that reports from a "middle of the road" perspective. Although I still to this day question their sanity in employing Geraldo Rivera - he's good for comic relief, anyhoo.
6 posted on 07/25/2002 6:07:57 AM PDT by Spacetrucker
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To: Spacetrucker
Why did the Allies win WW I and WW II ? Because we destroyed our enemies. Why have we lost all subsequent wars ? Because we failed to destroy the enemy.
If we leave the Israelis alone, they'll win this war. There will be no peace unless there is a clear winner...
7 posted on 07/25/2002 6:15:01 AM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks
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To: SJackson
As regards the tactical and moral aspects of this affair, Colonel Peters has the right of it, but it's worth staying attentive to the consequences of such operations.

At this point, Israel and the West generally have to go on estimates of the attitude -- and changes to the attitude -- of Palestinian "civilians." Yes, yes, I know that's an increasingly nebulous category. I've said as much myself. But if Israel remains committed to sifting the terrorists out of the larger population, as police do with criminals, they have to try to stay tuned in to what their operations are doing to the larger population's opinion of them. That would only become irrelevant if Israel had fixed on a policy of extermination -- and, God bless them for their forbearance, they haven't done that yet.

The great difficulty here is that it's all but impossible to get hard information about Palestinian opinion of the terrorists in their midst, or of the Israeli operations against them. Anyone who speaks his mind has to be aware of the Arafat regime's proclivity for executing dissidents. As a result, assessments of the temper of Palestinian society are pretty much guesswork.

All the same, the war for public opinion and allegiance is as important as the war of bullets and bombs. We learned that in Vietnam. The Israelis must remain mindful of it.

Freedom, Wealth, and Peace,
Francis W. Porretto
Visit The Palace Of Reason: http://palaceofreason.com

8 posted on 07/25/2002 6:18:11 AM PDT by fporretto
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To: SJackson
The Wall Street Journal has declared Europe to be irrelevant.
9 posted on 07/25/2002 6:18:37 AM PDT by bert
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To: Spacetrucker
FOX is, has and will continue to be ....

After Fred Barnes expostulated on why the bombing was justified, citing many of the facts listed by the WSJ, C C Connely from the Washington Post began a list of reasons why the bombing was wrong. She was curtly called to task by Brit Hume.

C C was a clueless professional spouting leftist drivel that carried to logical conclusion meant she cared not for her own life if any active defense was required. Better to allow an enemy to kill you than take any action against him.

10 posted on 07/25/2002 6:25:49 AM PDT by bert
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To: SJackson
A dozen Palestinian civilians died in the attack,

The attack occurred in a heavily populated residential area at a time when most would be home. I would say that the Israelis should be commended on a precision surgical attack in which there were so few civilian casualties. But the Israelis should also show regret for the loss of life even though such an action was necessary.

11 posted on 07/25/2002 6:27:08 AM PDT by Gaston
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To: Eric in the Ozarks
As a veteran of the Gulf War, I couldn't agree with you more. The results of our inaction in regards to Saddam are evident in almost every news broadcast today. And insofar as the Israeli/Palestinian issue goes, the Palestinians never had a homeland until the U.N. created one for them - their entire existence as a separate entity is a fabricated one.
We as a nation have become so pacified by the moral relativism proffered by our left-wing intelligencia that the mere thought of acting in a manner that appears judgemental sends shivers up our collective noodle spines.
Grow up, America!
12 posted on 07/25/2002 6:29:03 AM PDT by Spacetrucker
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Comment #13 Removed by Moderator

To: ConCon
???Crank? I've been called many things in my life (most unpostable here) but a crank?
14 posted on 07/25/2002 6:35:38 AM PDT by Spacetrucker
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To: SJackson
Why are Palestinian terrorists allowed to target civilians without exciting an international outcry, while every accidental civilian death inflicted by Israel is a crime against humanity?

Exactly.
Why this public breast-beating and hand-wringing by Israel?

Any question or comment by anyone, press or superpower alike, should be handled with the same answer:

"When the similar and deliberate killings by "palestinians" and other Muslim Mass Murderers are put through similar scrutinity, we will be happy to discuss it."
Until then you can go pound sand..."

15 posted on 07/25/2002 6:44:36 AM PDT by Publius6961
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To: BlueLancer
4th Geneva Convention Relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War, Part 3, Article 1, Section 28: "The presence of a protected person (aka civilian noncombatant) may not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations."

Thank you for this brief but clear citation.
This ought to short-circuit some doofus liberal brains...

16 posted on 07/25/2002 6:46:53 AM PDT by Publius6961
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To: Eric in the Ozarks; fporretto

Why did the Allies win WW I and WW II ? Because we destroyed our enemies. Why have we lost all subsequent wars ? Because we failed to destroy the enemy.
If we leave the Israelis alone, they'll win this war. There will be no peace unless there is a clear winner...

 You are so right! And more, after the war Germany undergone the denazification process, and Japan was under complete US control as well. The results are: complete Attitude Adjustment. No more threats from Germany and Japan. They are now our better allies. Nothing like that happened in Israel after all the victories.

Very telling excerpt from What Occupation?:

In sharp contrast with, for example, the U.S. occupation of postwar Japan, which saw a general censorship of all Japanese media and a comprehensive revision of school curricula , Israel made no attempt to reshape Palestinian culture. It limited its oversight of the Arabic press in the territories to military and security matters, and allowed the continued use in local schools of Jordanian textbooks filled with vile anti-Semitic and anti-Israel propaganda . ... Israel's restraint in this sphere ... turned out to be desperately misguided Click to continue


17 posted on 07/25/2002 6:47:30 AM PDT by Tolik
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To: Eric in the Ozarks
Eric, in a few words you summed up the whole problem. It will continue to be a problem till we and Israel act decisively and without apology.
18 posted on 07/25/2002 6:47:41 AM PDT by nofriendofbills
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To: ConCon
Thank God this crank is retired from the military.

Welcome to Free Republic.
Most people inform themselves before posting gratuitous opinion here.
Unless you are merely exercising your new persona.

Are you aware that returning here with a new name after being banned is painfully transparent?

19 posted on 07/25/2002 6:54:10 AM PDT by Publius6961
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To: fporretto
All the same, the war for public opinion and allegiance is as important as the war of bullets and bombs. We learned that in Vietnam. The Israelis must remain mindful of it.

Assuming you're talking about Palestinian public opinion, Israel faces the problem that irrespective of her actions, opinion is moulded by the the PA controled media and educational system within the territories. I think Israel's ability to impact it is limited at best.

20 posted on 07/25/2002 7:17:16 AM PDT by SJackson
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To: SJackson
Does anyone else here remember when the United States bombed Moammar Ghaday's home in Libya while his family was there? At least one of his children was killed by the surprise bombing attack, as I recall. We also bombed some of Saddam Hussein's palaces, although I don't recall if any of his family or friends were killed in those attacks.

Israel could just say, as our military has in Afghanistan, that the killing of innocent civilians is regrettable but "these things happen" when you're launching missiles or bombs from the air to kill terrorist leaders.

The only difference is -- Israel got its man.
21 posted on 07/25/2002 7:21:13 AM PDT by Scribe35
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To: Scribe35
His infant daughter and another 30 or 40 civilian casualties. The evil here is using civilians as shields.
22 posted on 07/25/2002 7:35:46 AM PDT by SJackson
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To: SJackson
The plans of terrorists for Western civilization make Attila the Hun's sacking of Rome look like a Sunday stroll in the park. This is a no holds barred fight to the death. Its time to get on with the program.
23 posted on 07/25/2002 7:41:15 AM PDT by goldstategop
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To: ConCon
Thank God this crank is retired from the military.

If he were not so retired, he would be unable to offer public opinion on matters relating to his chosen profession.

-archy-/-

24 posted on 07/25/2002 9:00:29 AM PDT by archy
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Comment #25 Removed by Moderator

To: SJackson
Just like Chechin elders in Gudermus kicked out the gunmen to avoid a battle in their city and have it come down around their ears.
26 posted on 07/25/2002 1:22:16 PM PDT by Stavka2
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