Additional Threats to Southern Heritage

Lake Charles American Press ^ | July 24, 2002 | Shawn Martin

[catfish1957]

Confederate veterans won't be listed on Vernon memorial (7/24)

By SHAWN MARTIN AMERICAN PRESS LEESVILLE — Descendants of Confederate veterans are unhappy that their ancestors won't be listed on the walls of a veterans memorial on Third Street.

Jodie Dowden, commander of the Anacoco Rangers and member of the national Sons of Confederate Veterans, said Tuesday that the Vernon Parish Veterans Memorial Park Committee refuses to include Confederate names on the walls that make up the memorial plaza on Third Street.

"We have been to the committee about this and have been told no, that our ancestors cannot go on the walls," he said. "They want to keep this quiet, and it's not right."

Last month when Dowden and others went to the committee, they were told that no decision had been made and that a legal opinion was being awaited.

Dowden talked to a lawyer, then SCV members submitted four names to the committee — three Confederate soldiers and a Union soldier from Nebraska who was killed and buried in Vernon Parish.

"They accepted the name of the Union soldier and rejected the three Confederate soldiers and returned my check," he said. "After that, we knew for sure that we had problems."

Dowden turned to Charles E. McMichael, the SCV's chief of staff in Shreveport, for help.

On July 18, McMichael sent a registered letter to Paul Greer, the committee chairman. He said Greer and the committee were violating federal law by refusing to include Confederate veterans.

McMichael stated in his letter that federal law recognizes Confederate veterans and they have "equal footing" with any other "American veteran per the law." He also noted that federal law allows benefits for Confederate veterans, including burials and headstones.

McMichael also noted that the memorial project has received land donated by the Vernon Parish Police Jury.

He said the SCV is prepared to take legal action to ensure that Confederate veterans are not treated as "second class."

Greer dismissed McMichael's letter.

"He had a bunch of stuff in there, and I didn't read it," he said. "They can buy all the bricks they want, but they cannot put names on the wall."

Dowden said it costs $35 per name, and he knows of at least 40 names that would go on the wall of the committee would change its stance.

Greer said the committee voted not to allow Confederate veterans. He admitted the vote may have been made in ignorance of the law.

"We will meet with the mayor and the Police Jury to talk about this," he said. "This issue just came up a couple of months ago."

Dowden said he thought the issue was settled at a recent meeting with Vernon Parish Police Jurors Sam Fulton Jr. and John Hamilton and Leesville Mayor Jim Shapkoff Jr. However, Greer refused to accept the names of the Confederate veterans last weekend.

Shapkoff, Hamilton, Greer and committee member Willie D. Cook met Tuesday to discuss the issue. After the meeting, Shapkoff said a solution had been reached that he felt would be satisfactory to all and would give the SCV access to the memorial.

"We hope that this puts an end to this issue," Shapkoff said. "This is a touchy subject, and we hope our solution will make everyone involved happy."

Dowden said it's unlikely that any solution short of full access to the memorial for Confederate veterans will be accepted by the SCV

[catfish1957]

Assault on our southern heritage continues.

[Aim small miss small]

Assault on our southern heritage continues.

Southern Heritage is part of American Heritage and this sucks hard.

[catfish1957]

a self imposed bump

[yooper]

"Greer said the committee voted not to allow Confederate veterans. He admitted the vote may have been made in ignorance of the law."

Well, well, well. Seems like we have yet another case of local hack politicians with Napolean complex who didn't do their homework before they made an asinine decision. He admits that the vote may have been made in violation of the law. It sounds to me like he knows for a fact that this is the case. Sue the bastards; they're wavering....

[jmax]

A bump from the Mississippi Gulf Coast.

[catfish1957]

The SCV, which I will join after I retire, does not like to use litigative practices (unlike the NAACP) to air their concerns. So I would be really surprised if they sued.

Catfish

Proud descendant of 5 confederate veterans

[Search4Truth]

A "Hell no we wont forget" bump.

[catfish1957]

God bless those in Mississippi who told the NAACP to keep their hands off Mississippi's flag. You made us proud!!!!!

[Vigilantcitizen]

Ping...

[Commander8]

There were many men who wore gray during the War Between The States who were American heroes. I have an ancestor with the same name as mine who died defending Richmond and I am very sure he fought for American institutions as he understood them.

[catfish1957]

Yes I do know their backgrounds in the war. One died at the Battle of Wilson Creek in 1861, one died at Shiloh in 1862. The third was ambushed and took a sabre in the head on a skirmish. All done via genealogical research.

And btw, are you alluding that I am a neo confederate? I do not claim to be a hero, and am honoring my ancestors who served.

And what I have I done for my country???...Who the hell are you....JFK????

[Arkinsaw]

This is a real shame. Confederate Veterans were accepted as American veterans for the purpose of cementing the nation together. Forming a more perfect Union if you will.

The Union Veterans met, shook hands, had reunions with, and returned flags to Confederate Veterans. Veterans of both sides attended funerals of their opponents from the other side. Confederate Veterans did the same. They did this because they had respect for one another and because it was best for the happiness of the country.

Today, the descendant organization of the Union Veterans continues to support the honorable treatment of the memory of Confederate Veterans and have made this known by resolution. They do this because they are honorable people with a sense of history and because it is good for the nation their ancestors fought for.

In Joshua Chamberlain's memoirs he stated his feelings as he presided over the surrender ceremonies at Appomattox. He said:

Before us in proud humiliation stood the embodiment of manhood: men whom neither toils and sufferings, nor the fact of death, nor disaster, nor hopelessness could bend from their resolve; standing before us now, thin, worn, and famished, but erect, and with eyes looking level into ours, waking memories that bound us together as no other bond;--was not such manhood to be welcomed back into a Union so tested and assured?"

Those who are banning the memory of these men from being memorialized with other Americans are not just insulting the honor of the Confederate soldiers. They are also insulting the honor of men like General Chamberlain and the men who served under him who were far more tested and wiser than they will ever be.

At Appomattox, the defeated Confederate troops, under the command of General John B. Gordon, anticipated the ultimate humiliation. Instead, they were met with honor and respect. For this, Gordon remembered Chamberlain in his memoirs as "one of the knightliest soldiers of the Federal Army." Chamberlain ordered his men, without permission from higher command, to perform a marching salute as the Confederate soldiers passed by.

Those who are controlling this Memorial would do well to learn a lesson from those "knightliest soldiers" that they purport to be honoring but instead dishonor.

[catfish1957]

Mine is not an obsession at all. I'm not even one of those reenactors :) It just gets my blood boiling when I read (which is pretty often) about our southern heritage being dismantled piece by piece. Before we know it, it will be gone for the sake of politcal correctness.

Did you know that the frequency of vandalism of confederate graves is escalating? Again, where will it stop.

[Illbay]

Er, I think this is about UNITED STATES veterans. Your people wanted no part of the United States. Surely it would be an insult to include them on this wall.

[Illbay]

LOL! I, too, have "confederate veterans" in my bloodlines.

However, unlike these cornballs, the "neo-confederates," none of mine were noteworthy or famous (notice how nearly all theirs led some charge or other).

Mine just slogged through mud and got the sh*t blown out of 'em, for the most part.

One, from Dale County, Alabama, in a letter written to his son after the war was over said "D*mn Jeff Davis to h*ll anyway, for leaving us all this misery!"

Oops, I guess I shoulda hushed that one up, eh?

[Illbay]

I'm sorry, but "southern heritage" is NOT equivalent to memorializing that rebellion. I have PLENTY of "southern heritage" of which I'm justly proud--mainly cause my people grew crops, babies and churches in roughly that order.

Many became fine, upstanding citizens--including a cousin who was President of the University of Alabama for nearly four decades.

Of THOSE things I'm justly proud, but not because some decided to take up arms to preserve negro slavery.

FWIW, I also have UNION soldiers in my bloodline. I'm a bit more kindly disposed toward them, since they and I favor the same country.

[backtobasics]

Now that, my friend, was an excellent post!

Thanks

[catfish1957]

I fully agree great post.

The unnamed detractors of this thread always bring up slavery as the driving force of the rebellion. Well, none of those 5 ancestors who fought for the confederacy owned slaves.

What was at stake was everyone's livelyhood. I would venture that Illbay would fight for his job, home, and family if external forces came in and tried to take them away.

[Arkinsaw]

But after saying all that, the mark of a life is not what your ancestors did in the ong past - it is what you accomplish - and obsession over a lost cause is neither healthy nor productive, and marginalizes you in society.

Were I to disown my family connections and my family's shared history any accomplishments I might make would be without anchor.

The great majority of these people whose activities you look on as unhealthy and unproductive would much rather be cleaning a graveyard than be some sort of an activist. But they have been forced into the position of being some sort of activist by those who want to divide by race for reasons of money, camera time, and agitation.

The Sons of Confederate Veterans was a quiet little historical organization that cleaned graveyards and held a few Memorial services. The SCV even placed a memorial wreath at the grave of Abraham Lincoln every year for a long time. There was no activism or "neo-confederate". The organization was not that much different than the DAR, the SAR, the SUVCW, etc. as far as activities go.

But what happened? The NAACP decided that they could get a lot of press, a lot of new members, and a lot of donations by attacking history and family honor. Something that they knew would provoke a fight in the South and was guaranteed to be bitter, painful, and sad as well as non-threatening to the political class. Politicians and business leaders have no problem selling out history because it doesn't cost them one thin dime. The NAACP can claim victory after victory on a useless emotional issue this way without provoking a REAL fight with the powers that be over issues that really would improve the quality of life of black Americans.

When did the Sons of Confederate Veterans grow? Membership EXPLODED when the Alabama and Georgia flag fights began. Exponentially. Why did all of these splinter "neo-Confederate" organizations begin to appear? Because the SCV continues to cling to its honorable Constitution which mandates that it remain a non-partisan, non-political, non religious, patriotic organization that is ill-suited to fight political hacks, opportunists, and agitators in a political and public relations battle.

The NAACP manufactured an issue and it manufactured a growing oppponent to its activities. A growing Southern-partisan movement bound to oppose them for emotional and family reasons. Opposition that would not have existed except for the activities of the NAACP. Just what it wanted to make it appear that it was actually doing something and that it had enemies when real enemies were being driven into extinction as blacks finally started integrating into society and equal rights became accepted by most of the populace.

You might think it unhealthy to oppose this stuff. I consider it unhealthy to stand aside. I love the South, I love Delta Blues, I like my fried okra, I love my peanuts, I love Dixieland Jazz, I love Memphis and New Orleans, I'm grateful to the Tuskeegee Airmen. You see, a huge part of the Southern culture I love is black culture. A great deal of why we are not Minnesota is because we have these elements of black culture and black roots. But Robert E. Lee is a part of that culture also. My great-great grandfather's death from disease with 1200 other young men in camp is a part of that culture. Stonewall Jackson is part of that culture. Not all of it is pleasant culture, some of it is weeping. But its all of one piece and its not unhealthy to defend it when its attacked.

I don't feel marginalized for speaking out for it. Its something of a duty. As soon as we are to the point where the Union and Confederate soldiers were in later years, respecting one another, I will go back to cleaning graveyards and studying battlefields and have no more reason to speak out.

[shuckmaster]

Dixie Ping!

[billbears]

I also have UNION soldiers in my bloodline. I'm a bit more kindly disposed toward them, since they and I favor the same country.

Unfortunately I do as well. Just one though. Nobody in the family likes his descendants anyway. Strangely enough a lot of his descendants turned out to be a bunch of thugs and criminals. As for the rest I have found 7 so far that fought in defense of what the Constitution stood for, continuation of the Republic, and not some 'American System' thought up out of one man's deluded mind. Two of those I am a direct descendant of. Many believed the lies they learned in government propaganda centers and are just coming to the realization of that.

[kjenerette]

...and obsession over a lost cause is neither healthy nor productive, and marginalizes you in society

I am an Army veteran - served in Desert Storm - my children will all learn and be taught to be proud of their Southern Heritage including their ancestors who fought for South Carolina.

What have I done? Check my bio...my past, present and future is about the Constitution and service to it's preservation for my childrens children.

Southern and Proud!

[GOPcapitalist]

Additional threats to Southern heritage come from a bunch of neoconfederates masquerading as heroes because some distant ancestor served.

One has to wonder...exactly what do you and your types think you are gaining by making snide comments such as the above? Do you get some sort of perverse gratification by belittling the deceased ancestors of people you do not even know? Or does it have something to do with the fact others happen to have an interest in what their ancestors did and who they were?

So you say you had 5 ancestors in the Confederate Army and are "proud".

If he does he has every right to be, as do you if you had ancestors who defended their homes and countries in times of war.

Do you know their battle histories and decorations? Their relationship to you?

I cannot speak for others, but I am always happy to respect my own ancestors before me. I am related directly to a veteran of WWII's pacific theater in the philippines and new guinea, a member of the Arkansas Home Guard for the Confederacy, and a North Carolina militiaman who chartered a committee on safety in the American Revolution. All of them were southerners by the way. How about you?

More importantly, what have YOU done for your country?

Again, I cannot answer for others, but personally, well...I suppose any number of things, but here's what immediately comes to mind. I've volunteered to elect conservatives into government since I was in high school, I've run polling places on election day since I was 18, engaged in civic activism on behalf of conservative causes since before I could vote, always paid my taxes even though they are too high, never taken a cent in welfare handouts or "entitlements" of the sort. I haven't done anything that's made me grand or famous, but seldom is it that the ever-important little things do. So I'm perfectly content with that and intend to continue it in the future. Now, what have you done?

[GOPcapitalist]

Strangely enough a lot of his descendants turned out to be a bunch of thugs and criminals

Interesting. Did he serve in Sherman's army?

[GOPcapitalist]

Brilliantly said. Thank you.

[aomagrat]

More of the left's famous "tolerance and diversity." The left loves "tolerance and diversity" as long as everyone conforms to their beliefs.

[CWRWinger]

One, from Dale County, Alabama, in a letter written to his son after the war was over said "D*mn Jeff Davis to h*ll anyway, for leaving us all this misery!"

I see the blood line and scalawag heritage of yours has not improved or changed any after 140 years. Must be a worm in your genes.

[catfish1957]

I know....

Kind of wonder if this guy is even a conservative

[Twodees]

Shut up, boy. Your own people were squatting in the sand picking camel fleas out of each others' heads when the war was raging here. You have nothing to say about this issue.

[wimpycat]

One great-great-grandfather of mine was in the 20th NC regiment along with his wife's brother, while the wife's other brother was in one of the regiments that was captured at Ft. Fisher (I don't remember the regiments off the top of my head like some people), while another great-great-grandfather from Carteret County signed up for one year's service, and when his year was up, he promptly went back to his fishing boats. He didn't have much use for either the U.S. or the N.C. government.

I think it's mighty odd that people would want their ancestors' names on a U.S. Veterans' memorial, seeing as how they fought against the U.S., (people trying to have their cake and eat it, too?) but after reading about how Confederate veterans were classified after the surrender, it appears they are legally considered U.S. veterans.

Personally, I think our Southern ancestors would laugh their asses off at what a great big deal their descendants are making out of all this.

[stainlessbanner]

RE: Post 21 & 13 - Excellent! You said it much better than I could ever have.

Same old detractors whining on this thread. Ironically, the threads are "civil" until they show up. Southrons just want to be left alone - let us remember our ancestors peacefully.

[Illbay]

If you want to call someone who fought "Yankees" for two years and saw friends die in front of him, and killed his share of Union soldiers "a scalawag," that's your call.

It makes you look silly, though.

A lot of "rebs" were quite disillusioned after four years of war, the ravaging of the countryside and the starvation of their wives and children to feed the rebel war effort.

They began to ask themselves "we're going through all this so some rich slaveowner can keep his 'niggers'?"

That's why in the final two years of the war the reb gov't was hard-pressed to keep the army's numbers up in the face of mass desertions.

[Illbay]

Personally, I think our Southern ancestors would laugh their asses off at what a great big deal their descendants are making out of all this.

Especially as most of them never wanted to HEAR about "the Confederacy" again at the close of the war. They simply wanted to go home, try to pick up the pieces and go on with their lives.

[Illbay]

Southrons just want to be left alone -

Uh, right. "Left alone" to continue their hate-filled rants against the United States, that is.

Hey, al-Qaeda want to be left alone, too!

[lentulusgracchus]

Personally, I think our Southern ancestors would laugh their asses off at what a great big deal their descendants are making out of all this.

That's just another way of saying that that's what you think about it.

You'd be surprised, how different 19th-century people's opinions about things like honor, duty, and familial piety were from your own. You are very definitely a product of the later 20th century and its self-absorption. You err by projecting it on your betters.

I also don't appreciate the slurs against people for asserting their Southern heritage in the face of willful determination to crush it. That sentiment used to be called patriotism, and its lack defined a worm.

[lentulusgracchus]

Do you intend an ill-mannered comparison of Southerners to the Al-Q'aeda?

[wimpycat]

I don't appreciate the personal attacks, especially since I have made no specific comments about anyone here, let alone any slurs. My comments certainly don't warrant your response. My comments are actually based on what my great-great-grandfather was known to have said on the subject, as well as some other of my "betters".

Custom dictates that I now challenge you to a duel for impugning my honor. Swords or pistols, sir?

[stainlessbanner]

hate-filled rants against the United States

That's where you misunderstand Southern people. We honor our ancestors. We honor those who came before us, for they are part of us.

There is no hate-filled rants against the USofA. This article is about honoring veterans; the government and the actual soldiers who fought in the War honored each other.

The only hatred in this article is by those who do not recognize Confederate soldiers.

[stand watie]

YEP, and the SCV is going on the OFFENSIVE on this case too.

as we have WON every case that we've entered, you'd think the damnyankees, halfbacks & scalawags would get the message!

for our HERO-MARTYRS,sw

[stand watie]

do NOT be surprised!

why wait till you retire to join the SCV?

dial 1-800-mydixie to JOIN NOW!

for dixie,sw

[stand watie]

if i were you, i would hide my face in shame for failing to defend your ancestors.

for dixie REMEMBERENCE,sw

[stand watie]

well said!

[stand watie]

i do NOT wonder;he is not only NOT conservative, but is a TURNCOAT as well.

for dixie,sw

[stand watie]

how about powderpuffs at 10 paces?

for dixie,sw

[stand watie]

well said!

for our HERO-MARYTRS,sw

[stand watie]

make that HERO-MARTYRS! hit the wrong key.

free dixie,sw

[stand watie]

i never fail to be amazed at the damnyankee,PC,LIBERAL-controlled government!

would you believe that former SCV commander-in-chief Rick Griffin AND his staff have been threatened with federal JAILTIME for criticising the VA?

have these damnfools, damnyankees and PC-idiots ever heard of the FIRST AMENDMENT?

for dixie,sw