Drug Raid Raises Concerns (Abuse of Anti-Terror Law)

Detroit News ^ | August 1, 2002 | Karen Bouffard

[dirtboy]

ping

[meadsjn]

Actually, I meant this specific incident. Ashcroft hasn't come out and said he feels this raid was reasonable under the PA, has he?

From this, you could add another item to BoT's list:

11) Each flagrant abuse of power is individually investigated and excused after the fact, rather than being prevented by the constraints of a recognized Constitution.

Perhaps someone can spiff up the wording, but there seems to be no justice or recourse for the agrieved victims of these illegal raids, even when innocent citizens die in the process.

[Texasforever]

You didn't ping me but I guess I am a Patriot Act "supporter. I don't support it as permanent legislation but as the war powers of the CIC that he can drop when he sees fit. Having said that, what does this article have to do with the Patriot Act anyway? It was state cops operating under a state law. You appear to be reaching a bit here.

[WyldKard]

A rights-abridging, socialist law that is abused for purposes it wasn't intended for?! Gasp! I am shocked, SHOCKED, I say!!

[sinkspur]

Not one supporter of the Patriot Act has come into this thread to debate this matter. This is serious stuff, but hardly any one seems to care...

Why would they? You're sitting here like a wild animal, waiting to pounce.

As I read this, it is a state act, carried out by Michigan operatives. Your argument is with Michigan, not Ashcroft.

[WyldKard]

Gee, I'm so glad that we've wrapped up our campaign ofdeporting all illegal immigrants, stopping the issuance of visa's, and investigated and stopped coddling all foreign suspects so that we now have all this free time to harass American citizens.

Oh wait....

[swarthyguy]

"WHAT would americans do if we actually declared a REAL war on specific persons, places or nations?"

Probably stop engaging in terror raids like this one. At least no-one was shot dead by the resident or the cops.

[SUSSA]

One of the traditional forms of resistance in oppressive regimes is to shun the agents of oppression. In places like Sicily the patriots refused to socialize with the oppressors or their families. Their children were shunned and ridiculed in school. Their wives were social outcasts, never invited to anything. People didn't patronize shops that did business with the agents of oppression. People left shops and social events if one of the local oppressors or a member of their family showed up. The oppressed subjects made it hard on the local agents of oppression to live a normal life.

Any of the local subjugated people who did socialize with or do business with the oppressors were also shunned, as were their families. Men whose wives or children socialized with the oppressors were fired from their jobs and nobody else would hire them. Merchants refused to sell to locals who fraternized with the oppressors. Life was not pleasant for the oppressors or their accomplices.

If I remember right, one Roman bureaucrat committed suicide when he was promoted to Governor of Sicily. The thought of living like that was repugnant to him.

This resistance was also used against the Nazis in some parts of France and Holland. It wasn't effective in removing the oppressors, but it created a very favorable atmosphere for the liberation forces. It also created an example of resistance for the children and made it harder for the government to turn the children into spies and squealers.

Resistance can take many forms.

[Robert_Paulson2]

CARE?
They care dammit alright!

FWIW... some of our WOD warriors here are probably participants in this stuff as we speak.

They don't dissapprove, they love it whenever they get to enjoy their addictive high of Power over others.. the almost sexual pleasure of violence of US vs. THEM, that coalesces in thier evil twisted minds.

They have all the power... WE have no rights, and it makes them drool with anticipation for the very next opportunity that comes along to abuse the power they have siezed.

They aren't here, because they are out enjoying the fruits of their perverseness. Executing undue and unjustified authority in the lives of "civilians".

Welcome to Nazi Camp.
some will ask "who saw THIS coming?" Those of us who knew will ask "Who did NOT?"

Wake me up when its all over.

[Doctor Stochastic]

Up his sleeve. Sorry to be so picky; I assume you had a Freudian slip with sleaze. On the other hand, it really doesn't make any difference.

we are At War now
do no Wrong, nothing to Fear
it's for The Children

[DoughtyOne]

LOL, --it happens.

[dirtboy]

Having said that, what does this article have to do with the Patriot Act anyway? It was state cops operating under a state law. You appear to be reaching a bit here.

From the article:

It's just the kind of abuse the ACLU has feared could occur as a result of the federal USA Patriot Act approved by Congress in October and Michigan adopted in April.

The Patriot Act also applied downwards, to state and local law enforcement. Recall that some localities caught some grief because they would not implement or support provisions of the Patriot Bill.

[dirtboy]

Why would they? You're sitting here like a wild animal, waiting to pounce.

Hardly, sink. I simply want them to see that some of the objections to the Patriot Bill are now being proven to have merit, and supporters of the Patriot Bill should contact state and national reps to demand that the Patriot Bill only be used for terrorist activities, not to deny general due process.

Having said that, what does this article have to do with the Patriot Act anyway? It was state cops operating under a state law. You appear to be reaching a bit here.

Not so. From the article:

It's just the kind of abuse the ACLU has feared could occur as a result of the federal USA Patriot Act approved by Congress in October and Michigan adopted in April.

The Patriot Act also applied downwards, to state and local law enforcement. Recall that some localities caught some grief because they would not implement or support provisions of the Patriot Bill.

[dirtboy]

BTW, thanks to the both of you for coming in, please come back in and debate the point - seeing this abuse of Patriot Bill provisions, what steps should be taken to prevent this from recurring? IMO, the provision that allows the affadavits for a search warrant to not be released would allow an unscrupulous police department to conduct de facto warrantless searches. Should there be a change to the law that requires to the police demonstrate to a judge a compelling need to block the release of affadavits, such as an ongoing terrorism investigation? This action was a clear abuse of the law...

[dirtboy]

Morning shift bump...

[meadsjn]

One of the traditional forms of resistance in oppressive regimes is to shun the agents of oppression.

That worked in the case of one woman in Nevada from the BLM or Forest Service, during the Jarbidge Road dispute.

These discussions are probably very similar to some which occurred prior to the outbreak of the Civil War in the South. Families argued and split over the tensions created when Federal troops were sent among them (usually militia from northern states). Individuals seesawed between their desire for peace and unity, and the desire to be free of "foreign" intervention.

Unfortunately, the movies and history books rarely cover the thirty or so years of the dispute prior to the outbreak of overt warfare. Some SC yahoo just up and fired on Fort Sumpter.

[dirtboy]

bump

[headsonpikes]

Rebump #2.

Deserves to be REread. ;^)