In-House Wars: For at least one, the goal was to drive people away.

Admin Moderator | 8-2-02 | Admin Moderator

[ohioWfan]

BushBuckeye works, but BushBrownfan is more accurate....... and I found Woody Hayes intolerably hot tempered and immature, besides which he never used a passing game appropriately. :o)

(Look for the Browns in the playoffs this year.)

W.....winner, wisdom, winsome, Walker.......take your pick.

rintense, I'll back you up. You've told more than one Bush supporter to knock it off when he or she got out of line, and rightfully so.

[Victoria Delsoul]

Thanks for the flag, Saber.

I know you have always been polite and sweet. Hmmm well, maybe not sweet, hehehehe. :-*

[Sabertooth]

I know you have always been polite and sweet. Hmmm well, maybe not sweet, hehehehe. :-*

Gimme time, I'll grow on you.

[Victoria Delsoul]

How much?

. .

I'm talking about time, not how much you'll grow on me, hahahaha, couldn't help it.

[SamAdams76]

I've noticed increased hostility here too and I've been here since the very beginning. I have a thick skin so it rolls off my back. But I believe there is a concerted effort by some to disrupt and they appear to go out of their way to provoke arguments. Not a big problem if the rest of us realize what is going on. Just refuse to take the bait when somebody tries to engage you in a flamewar. I usually respond with humor or irrelevance and they usually go away.

[Sabertooth]

couldn't help it.

From what I've seen of you, I don't think you can.

[Victoria Delsoul]

And you ain't seen much, LOL.

[PhiKapMom]

There are definitely trolls and disruptors on this site among the Bushbots, as there are among the Bushbashers. Folks have soured on this forum on account of both.

Wanted to bump this profound statement and add my two cents. Am sick and tired of the fighting going on both ways and find it totally unnecessary! Some of these flame wars are started intentionally and both sides get totally carried away. If people would not reply to an obvious flame, then the thread would up and die! Or just make a one liner and the thread would die anyways.

Why try and defend anything when some posters are obviously out to cause trouble?

[AmishDude]

Something just occurred to me. I was once accused of "talking behind someone's back" and I realized that under the new format, it's possible to hold a conversation on a thread without reading any of the other replies.

It makes it difficult for people to police those of their own ilk because they don't see the offensive posts.

[PhiKapMom]

Consider myself a Bush supporter and you are one of my favorite posters and yes you have supported Bushie's on occasion. From what I have seen you are a straight shooter who calls them like you see them. May not always agree with you 100% but I respect your opinion and on occasion you have changed mine!

[Mo1]

May not always agree with you 100% but I respect your opinion and on occasion you have changed mine!

Careful .. he may bring out the other kitty .. LOL

BTW .. I agree

[justshe]

Don't understand your post. You mean by just using the 'view replies' option?

[My Favorite Headache]

LOL!

[justshe]

And I'm betting that your minds were NOT changed because someone called you a derisive name, or attacked you, but rather by intelligent, logical dialogue?

[AmishDude]

Precisely. If I post my comments to a thread and lose interest in it, then I only have contact with it via clicking on "My Comments".

[PhiKapMom]

Thanks for posting this worthwhile thread. Have been tied up the last several days and missed the other thread on Hannity. You cannot imagine how disgusted I am at both sides of these continual flame wars and would like to know what the point to them is except to drive folks away!

Time for some people to grow up and quit acting like a bunch of spoiled kids who when they don't get their way want to pick up their ball and go home! Or the person everyone went to school with that HAD to get in the last word! Thanks again!

[Timesink]

Say, each moderator has a six month tenure and then they retire. Others take their place. With a six month retirement a mod could return for six months.

The same would have to be done with the FAB as well for it to really have an effect, and I think the chances of that happening are nil.

But then, I don't think the 6-month term limit on moderators will ever happen either. Like it or not, the reality is that FR has a Star Chamber in the background. I can only guess that it's made up either of people that JimRob knows and trusts personally, or of people who have been members since as far back as 1997 or so. In any case, 99% of us posters are never going to be invited into that club, no matter what.

(I should add that I've never seen any moderator or anyone else With Power act in an unethical fashion towards any mortal Freeper. I wish the Star Chamber would include more relative newbies who've proven themselves as serious posters over time, but I don't believe there's anything wrong with the way the men behind the curtain are running things.)

[justshe]

***Thanks for posting this worthwhile thread.***

You are welcome. I have poked my head back into this thread off and on today...and, sigh, I'm wondering if the choir isn't being preached to. So many that participate in the 'wars' have NOT weighed in here. And a dialogue would be so much better if BOTH sides participated. But I have NO idea how to 'invite' them to this table. Just my opinion and I could be all wet.

[justshe]

Can you explain what the FAB is and its' function? Thanks.

[Admin Moderator]

In no way shape or form am I blaming the flame wars on this particular person.

What I am saying is that the flame wars are providing cover for, and are enabling, people who wish to divide and conquer the conservative movement.

Nothing more, nothing less.

Thanks, AM

[inquest]

I think it's safe to categorically answer no to your question. There have in fact been situations where we have known why a poster had been subject to a moderator action. For example, there have been cases where someone on the thread flagged a moderator to alert him to the presence of a disruptor, and the moderator agreed and pulled the offending posts and poster. Even in this sue-happy culture, there are still some things that would still be dismissed outright.

[Timesink]

I've noticed increased hostility here too and I've been here since the very beginning.

Well, the stakes (and, concurrently, the infighting) are always higher when you're in power than when you're not. Pre-2001, we were practically all united around a single purpose: Get the 'Toon off the stage and make sure his even more evil (and worse, far more boring) Mini-Me wasn't elected president. Now that we've got the White House, we're free to spend more time arguing over split ideological hairs.

BTW, does anyone know if The Mods ever keep note of IP addresses and actually ban them so that they not only can't sign up multiple accounts, but aren't even allowed to read the site? I mean, if you run a search for duplicate IPs in the account database, and you ever find more than two accounts using the same IP, then you've got a probable disruptor. And even the two-account IPs should be checked to make sure they're legitimate (husband and wife, etc).

Of course, diehard disruptors could get around this just be accessing FR through AOL, but I have to admit I wouldn't complain one bit if the whole of *.aol.com was blocked from FR.

[Admin Moderator]

Several accounts, and posting from an obscure anarchist website, have a lot more to do with my suspicions than him having it out for Registered. Thanks, AM

[AmishDude]

I don't know that bringing flame war participants would be helpful. Trust me, it would be just the airing of old grievances.

[SamAdams76]

If I understand correctly, most ISP's dynamically assign IP addresses for every session. So a person logging onto Free Republic would have a different IP address every day. As for blocking AOL addresses, well we probably don't have many friends from there so that might be a somewhat safe bet. If any Freepers are on AOL, get off already! You are helping to fund a liberal media empire.

[RobFromGa]

Perhaps to indicate that not ALL is at it seems. That there is an agenda for some who post here.

OH-MY-GOD, some people here have an agenda??? You mean they aren't just pouring away their lives sending keystokes into the abysss.

Get REAL!

Most people on this site who discuss ideas do so with the belief that honest debate and disagreement is good for our country. Changing people's opinions through facts and debate is critical.

As one who has been on this site now for almost two years-- through the Gore/Bush War, the early Bush Presidency, and the 9-11 Aftermath, I have not seen a major change in civility.

What I have seen is vibrant discussion about the best Bush strategy in the current situation.

What everyone needs to remember is that to be in Government and LEAD, you have to get elected. And you have also must counteract the EVIL SOCIALIST neg effects of Big Ink (Print) and Big Faces(TV).

Once Bush is safely in his 2005-2008 term, he can forget politics somewhat, right now he has a country to lead, a country that has ZERO access to the information he has. We NEED TO TRUST THE MAN TO DO THE RIGHT JOB.

But it is a valuable venue for conservatives to discuss where his policy choices leave the conservative farm in the pursuit of political strenght-- Bush needs the people behind him to lead. ALL FREEPERS NEED TO REMEMBER THAT WE ARE IN THE WAR FOR OUR LIVES, AND BUSH HAS RISEN TO THAT TASK. DISINFORMATION IS A PART OF ANY WAR.

BTW, The Next New Moon over Iraq Draws Near-- August 8.

[Timesink]

If I understand correctly, most ISP's dynamically assign IP addresses for every session...

Ah, quite true. I guess I've gotten a little elitist over time with my cable modem. ;) I totally forgot about dialup ISPs.

But with a little extra effort, I think direct evidence could still be established. People using locally-based ISPs - say, for example, the RATS-R-US ISP in the Peoples' Republic of Berkeley - are still all going to show up as *.ratsrus.com. So you could just pull out all the accounts that use that domain (almost certainly no more than a few in any given town) and examine their posting habits and times for any suspiciousness. And most national ISPs (not AOL, which is part of why I said "just ban them entirely") give easily identifiable localities in their domain names (say, *.phil.pa.earthlink.net). So you could just run searches against that. Etc.

[RobFromGa]

Why try and defend anything when some posters are obviously out to cause trouble?

My approach is usually to refute the stupid claim of the disruptor with facts, then ignore their illogical responses.

[Timesink]

Do you suppose, and I ask because I don't know, that IF the reason for a suspension were given to all, FR could be opened up to a lawsuit from the person suspended?

Not unless they weren't just banned or suspended, but also had their real name posted by JimRob or an AM, along with an explanation for their banning that included outright libelous statements. (And we all know that no AM or JimRob would ever do something that stupid.) Online communities have been around for well over two decades now, and nobody has ever successfully sued a privately-run community over a banishment. I think only a couple of people have ever even tried, and they lost big time.

[justshe]

***Most people on this site who discuss ideas do so with the belief that honest debate and disagreement is good for our country. Changing people's opinions through facts and debate is critical.***

Did you see me say different? And did you read the moderator's comments at the beginning of this thread? No one is suggesting that disagreement and debate should be limited. You state: "I have not seen a major change in civility." But MANY, including the moderator, are suggesting the TYPE of dialogue is suspect from some. And many, even those who have the same goals as you do, state there has been a decided decline in the civility on this board.

P.S. And many of those who have posted , including myself, pre-date your entry onto this forum, but I'm not really sure how that is relevant.

[justshe]

Thanks, Timesink. Answers THAT question. :-)

[NormsRevenge]

Jim Eason BUMP :-)

When Savage was still traipsing thru rain forests and writing books .. Jim was Da Man!!

Im still trying to figure out if Im a disruptor or not myself :-? I post articles, some of which are not pretty to look at, but better to lance the boil then look like Lanny Davis the other night after Anne Coulter cold cocked with her spirit...knocked him silly. GO SIMON!!

[PhiKapMom]

Seems like you cannot win with some of these folks. I am a Bush supporter but more than that I am Republican loyalist first and foremost!

[habs4ever]

Nonsense.As if those thoughts don't cross our minds unless we see a trash article.You take the majority of conservatives for dummies? And its a necessary thing for us to read tin foil stuff to sharpen our minds??

Not ALL ideas are worthy of open discussion, unless the objective is to sow rancor.

After reading your Chesterton quote on your page, I think you know what I mean.Particulary about anarchists.

[PhiKapMom]

You are so right! Sabertooth has never been anything but polite to me even when disagreeing with a statement I made. He is very good at getting his points across in a logical manner.

There are several folks on here that I don't agree with, but I respect the way they handle disagreements. Don't have to start a flame war to get your ideas across.

Just don't understand people that intentionally start a flame war and then sit back and think it is funny. Freepers need to realize that there are a lot of folks out there that would like nothing better than to have Freepers continually fighting with each other instead of the enemy who are the Liberals and the DemocRATS.

Bet if we got right down to it, most of us agree on more things than we disagree. If not, I would have to wonder why they are on FR.

[PhiKapMom]

I agree with that approach -- one or two reasoned responses and then I quit. Some folks don't want to do anything but make sarcastic statements and get into disagreements. I finally figured out they were not worth my time once the reasoned reply was up.

But then there are the posters on my "do not reply to" list where I have learned my lesson -- recently the list has grown longer! Some posters are just not worth the trouble even when they are dead wrong and you have the facts!

[Diddle E. Squat]

"Well you can call me Ray, or you can call me Jay, but you don't have to call me Johnson."

Darn, I really got a kick out of seeing the term "Microsoft flying monkees" in those computer debate threads.

Oh well, just don't call me Shirley.

[PhiKapMom]

Thanks much for the ping!

Most of the people that know me on here pretty well know that I have been complaining about this subject for sometime now.

Disruptors were the only thing that made sense. Just like some Freepers that I had trouble with back during the campaign have showed up again. They were anti-Republican, anti-Bush, and pretended to be conservative but were not and were here to disrupt, but they have come back under different screen names but their style of posting is still there!

[Sabertooth]

Darn, I really got a kick out of seeing the term "Microsoft flying monkees" in those computer debate threads.

Indexing...

To find excuses and circular reasoning using Microsoft_Security_Failure_List, click below:
	click here >>>	Microsoft_Security_Failure_List	<<< click here
(To view all FR Bump Lists, click here)

[Diddle E. Squat]

LOL, my computer actually did crash about the same time that you were posting that graphic. (Of course it wouldn't have anything to do with me being a cheapskate using a bargain basement E-Machine.)

[Amelia]

What I am saying is that the flame wars are providing cover for, and are enabling, people who wish to divide and conquer the conservative movement.

You may know more than I do about this particular poster. My impression was that the flame wars were caused by, and were in fact about, those who wish to divide and conquer the conservative movement.

But I don't want to start another one here.

[jimkress]

I agree. When some twit comes along and starts making personal attacks, I just laugh at them, point out their childishness, and ignore their posts.

[Squantos]

ROTFLMAO !!.........FREEPAKAZIS!.........new word alert :o)

Thanks Gramps !!..........Stay Safe !

[dixiechick2000]

" I'm just proud of myself for getting the thread POSTED in the first place."

Way to go! ^5
I've never posted a thread in my life, so I'm a tad bit jealous.;o)

Thank you for posting this thread. It has been very interesting to read.
I, personally, don't get involved in flame wars. I like reading the threads, though. Once you get past the flames, you can find some very thoughtful and thought provoking posts. However, it would be nicer if there were no flames and it would take much less time to read!;o)
Also, I hope the disrupters are exposed, ASAP.

[185JHP]

As the estimable JimRob has pointed out, when you're getting flak, you must be a threat to something the enemy considers important! Move well, communicate well, and shoot at evil ideas, not people!

[justshe]

***Also, I hope the disrupters are exposed, ASAP.***

Same.

[inquest]

As the software improves, you will see more and more reasons why an action was done.

New tools for communication are certainly a good thing, but there has to be a willingness to communicate to begin with. Awhile back, there was a crevo thread (I don't remember which one, partly because my comment file is only going back about three pages for some reason. Any idea what's up with that?) where a poster named Esoteric Lucidity was banned with every comment of his on the thread flushed along with him. This made several posters very angry and bitter, as he had apparently written a post which they considered a very well-written critique of the other side (Unfortunately, I didn't have the pleasure of seeing it by the time I got on the thread). At several points throughout the thread, the moderator was pinged asking for an explanation, which never appeared. This is the kind of thing I'm talking about. Any off-color remark he may have made to another poster would have long been forgotten about; but his removal, and the pulling of every single one of his posts, offensive or not, really left a bad taste in people's mouths for a long time to come, and in my opinion, created a major disincentive for any Lurkers who might have been contemplating signing up and sharing their insights.

[Tribune7]

Well, FR is now the big time.

[Doctor Stochastic]

The Wok calling the Vase Ming?

[Sabertooth]

Hu, ming?