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Since my knowledge of firearms is limited I'd appreciate the comments of knowledgable Freepers. I suspect poor training rather than poor design is the problem here.
1 posted on 08/07/2002 6:24:01 AM PDT by jalisco555
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To: jalisco555
I never liked the Glock because of ergonomics. The gun is too square and "blocky"; it doesn't fit my hand well.

By all accounts it is a fine weapon. Again, I dislike the silly trigger thingie that masquerades as a 'safety'. And I just plain don't like DAO weapons--which the Glock sort of is.

Recent news about jamming and failure to feed, too.

But on the plus side they are supposed to be almost indestructable. I've heard of weapons with many thousands of rounds put thru them and no problems.

But just not right for me...I'll never own one.

--Boris

2 posted on 08/07/2002 6:33:24 AM PDT by boris
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To: jalisco555
I think the problem with all of these semi-autos is that there is a round left in the chamber after the magazine is removed, unless all of the rounds are used up. If a person forgets to set the safety you can have an accident and frankly I wouldn't trust the safety anyway. What I do is to set the safety, remove the magazine and shake or pry the round out of the chamber before I put it away.

The problem with the "unloaded" gun has always been a problem. In the old West, smart cowboys always traveled with an empty chamber in the firing position on their six shooters.

If it were possible to make it impossible to shoot the semi-autos without the magazine in place I suppose that would be a very good idea but I still don't trust any of these ideas fully. The only safe weapon is a gun without a round in the chamber.
3 posted on 08/07/2002 6:35:45 AM PDT by RichardW
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To: jalisco555
With no manual safety, the gun will fire if the trigger is pulled.

I think Onondaga County needs to hirer smarter probation officers

4 posted on 08/07/2002 6:36:33 AM PDT by 2banana
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To: jalisco555
Bingo-the safety on the Glock is the same safety on revolvers-internal only. The idiots involved here forgot the primary weapons saftey rules of: handle all weapons as if they were loaded until you visually and manually verify otherwise, and KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOU ARE READ TO FIRE. Sorry for yelling , but that's what I have to do on the range to re-inforce it with officers that oughtta know better. Like the idiots in the article
5 posted on 08/07/2002 6:36:55 AM PDT by 5Madman2
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To: jalisco555
As my brother told me:
"There are 3 rules of Glock Safety:"
  1. Keep your freakin' finger off the trigger
  2. Keep your finger off the freakin' trigger
  3. Keep your freakin' finger off the freakin' trigger

The point is, the Glock will not fire if the the trigger is not pulled (there is a safety within the trigger that is activated when pressure is applied to the trigger). In addition, the officers clearly violated several fundamental gun safety rules:
  1. Treat every gun as if it was loaded
  2. Never point a gun at anything you are not willing to destroy, and
  3. Keep your freakin' finger off the freakin' trigger

6 posted on 08/07/2002 6:38:09 AM PDT by FOL(iberty)
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To: jalisco555
I suspect poor training rather than poor design is the problem here.

There are three safety rules for Glocks:

I don't know why some people find them so difficult.
8 posted on 08/07/2002 6:42:04 AM PDT by supercat
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To: jalisco555
I love my Glocks (thousands of rounds, no FTFs), but I always tll people the primary safety is that big pink thing thing between the ears.

No, not my nose! (smile)

9 posted on 08/07/2002 6:42:11 AM PDT by Jonah Hex
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To: jalisco555
Just a question, can police officers carry their own personal weapons instead of what's issued to them?
10 posted on 08/07/2002 6:42:45 AM PDT by shekkian
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To: *bang_list

11 posted on 08/07/2002 6:44:49 AM PDT by Joe Brower
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To: jalisco555
Go here

On the left are link to video files. Check out the one called glockauto.mpg.

Glocks are not unsafe. They are less safe than other firearms. But it's not the firearm, it's the person handling it. As many have pointed out here.

14 posted on 08/07/2002 6:49:39 AM PDT by isthisnickcool
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To: jalisco555
the third time in eight years that an Onondaga County probation officer had unintentionally discharged one of the department-issued Glock pistols.

Gun grabber mantra: "Only the police and government agents should have guns, because only they can be trusted to use them safely."

The Glock had no manual safety switch and no magazine safety that made the gun inoperable when the magazine was removed.

Having a magazine "safety" means you can't shoot an attacker when you're reloading. Such a safety will get people killed.

A Glock is a safe weapon, Cominolli said, but only if the person handling it knows how to use it.

Bingo.

If the gun is unloaded in the wrong order, for example, a round of ammunition can be left in the chamber without the user realizing it, he said.

If the user doesn't realize that clearing the chamber fist, followed by removal of the loaded magazine, leaves a round in the chamber, then that person shouldn't be handling guns and certainly shouldn't be in any kind of position that requires gun handling.

15 posted on 08/07/2002 6:50:09 AM PDT by coloradan
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To: jalisco555
This is par for the course in today's Modern society. Responsibilty is side stepped and someone/thing else gets blamed. The fact is a Glock won't fire unless the trigger is pulled. This 'officer' screwed up and now its the guns fault. As already mentioned if you don't want the thing to fire keep your finger off the trigger. Its no more complicated than that....which says ALOT about the knucklehead who committed the AD. That said the Glock is the single most reliable combat handgun ever designed. In live fire its administratively perfect...point and shoot. Theres no decocker or safety to actuate (or not and wind up hurt or dead). For that reason a Glock is faster to learn than any other handgun....BUT if you don;t want it to go bang! you must keep it unloaded OR keep your finger off the trigger until you want it to go bang!!!! I think you get the point...
16 posted on 08/07/2002 6:50:10 AM PDT by 556x45
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To: jalisco555
A Glock is a safe weapon, Cominolli said, but only if the person handling it knows how to use it.

The article could have ended right there. Enough was said.

How difficult is it to test officers on procedures for safe handling of weapons? Have an instructor ask the officer to unload their weapon. If he leaves a round in the chamber, do not return the semi-auto pistol. Issue a revolver and a 1 bullet for their pocket.

17 posted on 08/07/2002 6:50:13 AM PDT by maximus@Nashville
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To: jalisco555
I don't consider myself an expert either but offer the following observations:

A Colt 1911 semi-auto handgun (and probably many others) will fire a round in the chamber with the magazine removed. Even if a particular handgun has a mechanical disconnect designed to prevent it from firing with the magazine removed, you should NOT depend on it or any other mechanical safety

The situation in the article is a problem of lack of thought, forgetting the fundamental safety rules, and lack of practice with the firearm. The rule being violated is to keep your finger OFF the trigger until your sights are on the target. You don't need to have your finger inside the trigger guard to draw the pistol. The two other basic safety rules are to be sure of your target, what's behind it, and what's beyond it and to point your firearm only at something you are absolutely certain you wish to destroy.

18 posted on 08/07/2002 6:53:01 AM PDT by GunsareOK
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To: jalisco555
Only thing you have to remember is the definition of an "expert", an "ex" is a has-been and a "spurt" is a drip under pressure.
19 posted on 08/07/2002 6:53:59 AM PDT by bullseye1911
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To: jalisco555
If you own and carry a firearm you are responsible for what it does. If it need service, get it serviced. If it needs replacing, replace it. If it goes off while in your possession, you are responsible.

I have a good deal of experience with more than one Glock. They are fine weapons and don't possess a fault a competent shooter can't deal with easily. Since no gun is perfect, one can only come close. For my money the Glock comes awfully close.

20 posted on 08/07/2002 6:54:00 AM PDT by muir_redwoods
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To: jalisco555
This is a bunch of crap. I've owned Glocks and many other guns for years, and never had an accidental discharge. If this probation officer keeps shooting his ceiling, he needs to surrender his weapon until he gets proper training and qualifies to carry it. Guns dont "just discharge"; careless people are always at fault. Fools who shoot their own ceiling just give credibility to anti-gun nuts who want to disarm everyone.
21 posted on 08/07/2002 6:54:14 AM PDT by Astronaut
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To: jalisco555
Glocks are fine.

A Glock is a safe weapon, Cominolli said, but only if the person handling it knows how to use it. If the gun is unloaded in the wrong order, for example, a round of ammunition can be left in the chamber without the user realizing it, he said. With no manual safety, the gun will fire if the trigger is pulled.

1. I never use safeties because they lock you at the wrong time, and they do not work at the wrong time. Except if you are a 1911 type on alert cocked and locked, I see no use of the safety in Glocks, just keep it in DA mode and things should be fine

2. All semi-autos can have a round loaded while the magazine is out. So duh! When making sure a round is not chambered, one looks in the chamber, not in the magazine by removing it.

This article seems like bull and I smell a media/law suit going on.

22 posted on 08/07/2002 6:55:05 AM PDT by lavaroise
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To: jalisco555
I'll stick with my Browning HP. Ambidextrous thumb safety, and will not fire with the magazine removed. And it's single action, you have to manually cock the first shot. Overall, a real safe pistol. I juust wish I could get it in .45
23 posted on 08/07/2002 6:57:27 AM PDT by DETAILER
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To: jalisco555
Some of the events depicted in this article may intentionally not be accurate to save face for the idiot who accidentally discharged his weapon.

I carried the Glock 17,as part of my previous employment.

None of my Buddies or I have ever had any problems with our issued weapon.

25 posted on 08/07/2002 7:01:42 AM PDT by gitmogrunt
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