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Turkish Claws on Northern Iraq
Hurriyet ^ | 8/8/2002 | N/A

Posted on 08/07/2002 5:09:45 PM PDT by a_Turk

The countdown is on for the US attack on Iraq. Turkey has taken position in Northern Iraq in a blitz.

As concerns of an imminent US attack on Iraq grow day by day, Turkey has secured the Critical Bamerni airport in Northern Iraq.

Operational

Turkey has sent heavy machinery and electronic support equipment to the airport along with military and civil personnel who have made the airport available for military use in short order. Ankara, thereby, made it impossible for any other to strategically control the oil rich regions of Mosul and Kirkuk. Turkey has, additionally, established a umber of security checkpoints in northern Iraq.

Talabani explains

This surprize development was reported by PUK leader Celal Talabani, who had been in Ankara on 8/7.

Reports of 5000 Soldiers

The security apparatus inside Iraq was expanded to include a number of forward bases. According to unofficial sources, Turkey has about 5000 soldiers in the region.

Another unofficial report suggests that there are a few Americans who come and go to the Airport.


TOPICS: Breaking News; Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: iraq; kurds; turkey
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To: a_Turk
Is Turkey working with Chalabi as well?
101 posted on 08/07/2002 8:08:39 PM PDT by WaterDragon
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To: The KG9 Kid
Bush is in Crawford right now. Do you really expect him to start a war before Sept.11th? I don't. Too much at stake and he will look like he knew something bad was coming to D.C. by not being in town when the war starts. I can see him being eaten alive by the media.
102 posted on 08/07/2002 8:12:57 PM PDT by My Favorite Headache
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To: Yasotay
Yes, perhaps. Would be so nicely "convenient" to have an impetus thrust upon us.
103 posted on 08/07/2002 8:14:26 PM PDT by Scott from the Left Coast
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To: a_Turk
You nailed it on the head!!! .... We were formally briefed that it was NOT considered a felony to get stabbed there ... so the victim can't chase you down .... and they would always get away .... so do you have any experience with that MO??? :)
104 posted on 08/07/2002 8:15:42 PM PDT by Yasotay
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To: My Favorite Headache
Good points.

On the other hand, it could yield deception...nah, getting to deeply complicated there...I think your points take the day.

105 posted on 08/07/2002 8:16:12 PM PDT by Scott from the Left Coast
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To: Yasotay
No experience, no. Just know about it. So far my ass has been lucky.
106 posted on 08/07/2002 8:17:27 PM PDT by a_Turk
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To: El Gato
British Petroleum screwed the Ottoman Empire.
107 posted on 08/07/2002 8:20:25 PM PDT by ingeborg
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To: ingeborg; El Gato
The indo-persian oil company, which found oil down around Basra in 1906....
108 posted on 08/07/2002 8:23:27 PM PDT by a_Turk
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To: a_Turk
"Seems we're securing our interests ahead of your campaign."

I assure you that the interests are the same. Peace and stable oil supplies.

109 posted on 08/07/2002 8:26:24 PM PDT by blam
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To: Scott from the Left Coast
The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that this would be a GREAT move on the US's part. I know alot of really smart people that are still in the military and I this can only hope that the SAMs grads at Leavenworth came up with this option.It is BRILLANT. Kuwait is a feint ... the Turkish Army on the borders of SA and Iran (NOT US soldiers...) .... cheap Turkish oil .... I bet SA starts listening to us then.
110 posted on 08/07/2002 8:27:25 PM PDT by Yasotay
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To: a_Turk
But wasn't TEL's mission--maybe unknown to him personally--to set things up so that BP could exploit the oil fields without having to deal with Ataturk?
111 posted on 08/07/2002 8:28:35 PM PDT by ingeborg
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To: Yasotay
After reading a little more history, I think I've regained my perspective. What we have here is a people who, until recently, have never known autonomy. What is now Saudi Arabia was for a very long time a land of simple nomads effectively managed by local Turkish magistrates. Turkish Ottaman rule, temporarily restrained by English American design, may be back in ascension. Would it be a bad thing to revert control of what was theirs for so long. Talking about everything from the Lebanese Mediterranean to the Eastern Arabian coastal town of Riyadh. The Saudis have been pretty poor custodians of the wealth and comfort America has granted them. Right??

But then I splash cold water on my face and neck, open this web page and realize everything said here is so far off the chart out in neocon land that unless there is some serious seed change in the American government bureaucracy, nothing changes. Liberal political correctness seeps from every pore of the political apparatus. You don't change 8 years of Clinton appointments overnight. Read em and weep boys.

http://usembassy.state.gov/riyadh/
112 posted on 08/07/2002 8:28:43 PM PDT by kinghorse
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To: Yasotay
The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that this would be a GREAT move on the US's part. I know alot of really smart people that are still in the military and I can only hope that the SAMs grads at Leavenworth came up with this option.It is BRILLANT. Kuwait is a feint ... the Turkish Army on the borders of SA and Iran (NOT US soldiers...) .... cheap Turkish oil .... I bet SA starts listening to us then.

...sorry sometimes my fingers are faster then my brain...
113 posted on 08/07/2002 8:31:17 PM PDT by Yasotay
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To: a_Turk
Thanks for finding this and translating. I was looking for English-language Turk news sources today, but didn't find anything worthwhile. I just knew the next move would come from Turkey.

A couple of things ....

Turkey's move does not appear to be that of a pawn or a rook. I think they did this independently - to secure their interests. IMO, Washington has not reassured them about the Kurds and is probably playing a double game. Also, they probably asked for the oil-rich areas and did not like the reply they got. Good for Turkey.

Right now the US needs Turkey more than Turkey needs the US. So, the Turks should ask for and get - forgiveness of the $5 billion military debt, the Mosul, etc, and absolute guarantees about the Kurds. A lot of foreign aid and goodies should be thrown in for good measure.

Turkey is the only Muslim country whose history and culture I like. I've been reading a "Peace to End All Peace" and absolutely love the Turks in it. Especially, all the Europeans that assumed the Turks were dim-witted only to be completely bamboozled by them.

BTW, the British, who faced both the Turks and the Germans, thought the Turks were tougher. "Absolutely splendid with his back to the wall."

Don't be offended by the Freeper who refered to Turkey as a pawn. In chess, the first offensive move usually involves a pawn taking control of the center of the board.

114 posted on 08/07/2002 8:32:57 PM PDT by ARCADIA
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To: ingeborg
All I know is they found oil in Arabia in 1906, 8 years later Turkey was in a losing war, and 13 years later had lost all the sand land. Only then did Ataturk come into the picture, and it never was his intention to go back to the gulf.

Too smooth to be coincidental, but keeps lingering in my mind as a suspicion that we were suckered into joining the Germans. We had some real doozies, let me tell you. Thank God for Ataturk, or else we'd be a runt paying Greek taxes right now.
115 posted on 08/07/2002 8:35:44 PM PDT by a_Turk
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To: ARCADIA; The KG9 Kid
Don't be offended by the Freeper who refered to Turkey as a pawn. In chess, the first offensive move usually involves a pawn taking control of the center of the board.
No way, I was not offended. The pawn game was played a decade ago though. Plus this is an airport surrounded by other bases. Rook - yet perhaps neither white nor black. Time will tell.
116 posted on 08/07/2002 8:43:05 PM PDT by a_Turk
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To: Scott from the Left Coast
Match Point...lol...expect after elections...all this is media hype right now.
117 posted on 08/07/2002 8:45:09 PM PDT by My Favorite Headache
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To: kinghorse
I remember MANY great Officers when I was in the Army and most of the Senior Field Grade and General Officers still in the Army were and are very professional AND 8 years of Clinton would NOT change that. Turkey would be a GREAT course of action and the bureaucrats would have zero say or knowledge about that course of action. I hope you are wrong.
118 posted on 08/07/2002 8:45:09 PM PDT by Yasotay
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To: All
I do not believe it would be in the interest of the US to begin creating new countries, states or regions. IMO, when this is all over, there will be no border changes, Iraq will be governed by Iraquis except the northern and southern minorities will have more influence and involvement in that government. (The war on terror is not about 'carving' up countries)
119 posted on 08/07/2002 8:49:27 PM PDT by blam
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To: a_Turk
I think they were suckered in because most of the Turkish war machine of pre-1914 was Mausers, Krupp cannons, and other German-made stuff. Once you buy into the parts plan, it's hard to break free.
120 posted on 08/07/2002 8:56:50 PM PDT by ingeborg
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To: My Favorite Headache
****Bush is in Crawford right now. Do you really expect him to start a war before Sept.11th? I don't. Too much at stake and he will look like he knew something bad was coming to D.C. by not being in town when the war starts. I can see him being eaten alive by the media. ****

President Bush has 14 more 'day' trips planned during the month of August. Except for his economic summit at Baylor(?)which I'm assuming we could figure he would not cancel.....he would be but a plane ride away from D.C. I wonder which of his upcoming day trips bring him closest to D.C.
121 posted on 08/07/2002 9:03:56 PM PDT by justshe
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To: My Favorite Headache
"... Do you really expect him to start a war before Sept.11th? I don't. Too much at stake and he will look like he knew something bad was coming to D.C. by not being in town when the war starts."

As long as we're all speculatizing and whutnot, maybe THAT'S part of the plan: Look like you're going fly-fishing for a month, and then drop the bomb. Race back to the White House after you've sprung the trap.

Hey, why not?

122 posted on 08/07/2002 9:05:31 PM PDT by The KG9 Kid
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To: ingeborg
Our losers of the day entered the war like this: The British were chasing a German battleship in the North Sea. They chased it all the way down the Atlantic coast into the Mediterranean, and then east into Turkish waters, where finally it sought refuge in our straits. The British demanded the ship. The Turks declined. The British expressed that this would amount to an act of war. The Turks replied that, fine, then this is our declaration of war.

The British did not need the ship, which ended up being a Turkish ship finally mothballed in the 1970s. After the declaration of war, they went on their merry way, as if the ship had suddenly lost it's importance. Well, in a way it did, it had done it's job.
123 posted on 08/07/2002 9:11:11 PM PDT by a_Turk
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To: a_Turk
The Ottoman provinces ruled by a secular westernized state (hint hint!) leading the Arabs out of Wahabi extremism into the 21st century and a more moderate Islam. Sounds pretty darn good to me!
124 posted on 08/07/2002 9:20:36 PM PDT by CARepubGal
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To: a_Turk
I'm wondering about the Kurds. I know they're muslims, but are they extremists like the Arabs?

I'm curious of why the Turks keep cracking down on the Kurds.

P.S. Just asking, I know that Turkey is a great ally of USA. :-)

125 posted on 08/07/2002 9:30:57 PM PDT by MinorityRepublican
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To: My Favorite Headache
It seems like everyone is forgetting that last summer Bush went to Crawford for a month. The press had a fit complaining that he was taking a month off and then complained how hot it was in Crawford.

I don't read anything into his trip to Crawford. I don't think going to Crawford will stop him from attacking Iraq during that time if he thinks that is the best time to do it, however.
126 posted on 08/07/2002 9:37:14 PM PDT by B-bone
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To: MinorityRepublican
>>I'm wondering about the Kurds. I know they're muslims, but are they extremists like the Arabs?

Some Arabs are extremists, some Kurds are extremists. Extremists exist among all our nations..

>>I'm curious of why the Turks keep cracking down on the Kurds.

We've got lots of Kurds who are citizens of Turkey. The constitution is colorblind, so there's no special treatment of anyone regradless of color, race, etc. Many are successful businessmen, in politics, and one even ran the country for a decade (Turgut Ozal). Irony, he had to crack down on what's romantically called "Kurdish freedom fighters" around here. In fact, they are not freedom fighters, but terrorists encouraged by those external interest groups who'd like to see our country disintegrate (USSR in the 80s, Greece, Syria, Armenia) so they could get a piece of it.

Fact is that Kurds and the rest of the citizenry of the Republic of Turkey are intermingled and intermarried, live side by side in peace. Now that the Marxist Leninist terror group PKK (Kurdistan Workers Party) has been eliminated, the emergency rule in the southeast provinces is discontinued and life has returned to normal.
127 posted on 08/07/2002 9:42:17 PM PDT by a_Turk
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To: Jim Noble
The dissolution of the post-Sevres Arab petty despotisms and the reconstruction of Ottoman Arabia along modern lines, under joint American (economic/political) and Turkish (religious) supervision, should do the trick.

Careful, you're going to make the EU, Russia and China wet themselves when they realize this possibility.

128 posted on 08/07/2002 9:56:34 PM PDT by Centurion2000
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To: a_Turk
I've seen recent reports (which I could dig out but I'm too tired to bother right now) about a resurgence of Islamic political parties in Turkey. How much risk do you think there is of Turkey succumbing to the religious fanaticism that has gripped the Arab-Muslim nations?
129 posted on 08/07/2002 10:05:19 PM PDT by dpwiener
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To: a_Turk
I am curious as to the Kurds status when the end-game is played out. While I am certain they will support the downfall of Saddam, would they willingly submit to Turkish rule? I assume the Kurds are Islamists, since that is prevalent in the Middle East, but are they extremists?

Kurdish questions aside, I am delighted at the prospect of Turkey moving against Suddam. My impression of Turkey is that they have a democratic government, yet a government that would have little tolerance for tribal warfares within its community (the type of tribal warfare that continues to threaten the new government in Afghanistan).

130 posted on 08/07/2002 10:19:09 PM PDT by bjcintennessee
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To: a_Turk
Great news!

Way to go Turks!

Guess we don't need that base in Saudi Land after all. Nothing better to fly our wings of death to the Iraqi thugs, than a secure air base in Northern Iraq.
131 posted on 08/07/2002 10:35:01 PM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: Dog Gone; a_Turk; Shermy; Turk2
DG posted, "A plan which gives northern Iraq to Turkey (it won't be characterized quite that bluntly) will go a long way toward solving some Turkish strategic goals, and the US should have no objection to that.

Sounds like a hell of a great deal to me.

Of course the Rats entrenched in the State Department will go nuts as well as the NY Slimes. The UN carrion pickers will have massive strokes, but no big losses for our side.

This adds new meaning to "You are either with or against us. Choose life or death!

132 posted on 08/07/2002 10:40:05 PM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
Thanks for the ping.

Would you call this a premptive strike? :)
133 posted on 08/07/2002 10:42:57 PM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: mamelukesabre
Big deal. If we ever need a load of soldiers they'll just draft us.
134 posted on 08/07/2002 11:07:06 PM PDT by BlessingInDisguise
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To: Mortimer Snavely
This meams that someone, somewhere, is actually thinking about what's likely to happen after Hussein "faw down go boom," and is doing something to prevent it.

Good point. This is a good move, and explains why hussein was trying to play kissy-face with the Kurds even after everything he's done.

135 posted on 08/07/2002 11:16:07 PM PDT by piasa
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To: a_Turk
I'm curious: does Turkey have the military wherewithall to take on Iraq alone? Also, how do the Kurds figure into this?
136 posted on 08/07/2002 11:39:51 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler
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To: a_Turk
Nevermind the Kurd question. You already answered it.
137 posted on 08/07/2002 11:50:08 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler
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To: The KG9 Kid
Chances are that W will not attack until after the November elections, because he would not want the Republicans to gain an unfair advantage over an issue of international importance. New tone and all.
138 posted on 08/07/2002 11:54:34 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler
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To: withteeth
wt, I sent Turk's piece to Charley Jones on KRLD radio (1080 am, Dallas) earlier this evening and he mentioned it about thirty minutes ago. He is having a ball with the Ledeen article about the "secret" revolution going on in Iran also.

Regards
139 posted on 08/08/2002 12:08:41 AM PDT by jwtexian
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To: a_Turk
This is the rook, baby!
Nah, 5,000 troops is just a pawn--for now.

Certainly raises the possibility of your rook coming later, tho!

Or maybe just another pawn, a little further . . .

And then an offer of a "merger".


140 posted on 08/08/2002 12:11:09 AM PDT by conservatism_IS_compassion
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To: Grampa Dave
Not by us.

Of course some say that Bush has stealth moves, so who knows?

It is a good move , that's for sure!

141 posted on 08/08/2002 12:36:41 AM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach
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To: Rev. Lou Chenary; a_Turk
This ol' man has always been thankful and amazed with Turkey at the same time. I never thought we would have an Islamic ally.
I was in high school, and Kennedy was President, when I first learned that Turkey held our closest 'ears' to the Soviets. They have always been great allies. No matter what I read in the press, my personal first reaction is to trust them. In my lifetime of almost 56 years, I've known them to act in a way that ends up benefitting America. FWIW

Nam Vet

142 posted on 08/08/2002 1:15:10 AM PDT by Nam Vet
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To: Rebelbase
And every Turk made P.O.W. by China during that war survived to go home and, no Turk was ever brainwashed to the point of breaking.

I wasn't aware of that info, but I'm not surprised. Thanks for the insight.

The cold war should be sufficient for any American to understand what a great ally the Turks have always been.

143 posted on 08/08/2002 4:45:06 AM PDT by BOBTHENAILER
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To: a_Turk
I see no reference to this situation in the Turkish Press. Can it be verified?
144 posted on 08/08/2002 4:49:27 AM PDT by DrCarl
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To: BlessingInDisguise
Big deal. If we ever need a load of soldiers they'll just draft us.

Huge deal! Reinstate the draft and there will be a replay of the sixties; riots in the cities and turmoil on the campuses and marches on the Pentagon and all the rest.

145 posted on 08/08/2002 5:13:04 AM PDT by decimon
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To: a_Turk
Turkey has been our loyal friend and ally for many decades. How refreshing our Turkish friends are by comparison with our fair-weather friends in western Europe. I particularly like reading about the Turks' night attack methods, something admired by our past military leaders.

I'd favor giving Turkey half of Iraq's oil, deposing Saddam and installing a democratic republic in a rump Iraq.

Of course, Turkey will continue to have a Kurdish problem, just like Saddam did. But Turkey never massacred their Kurds or engaged in the vile practices of Iraq. I would generally favor establishing a Kurdish province of Turkey because a Kurdistan will never be anything except unstable and problematic. Another of the small nations that cannot survive among stronger neighbors. Turkey is the best chance they have for some autonomy and human rights.
146 posted on 08/08/2002 5:39:41 AM PDT by George W. Bush
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To: a_Turk
Fact is that Kurds and the rest of the citizenry of the Republic of Turkey are intermingled and intermarried, live side by side in peace. Now that the Marxist Leninist terror group PKK (Kurdistan Workers Party) has been eliminated, the emergency rule in the southeast provinces is discontinued and life has returned to normal.

The things you learn on FR. I think I like Turkey more and more. What about the Kurds in Iraq? Do you think they want independence from Iraq? Do they want to be part of Turkey? If and when Saddam is overthrown how will they fit in with the other people of Iraq?

Also, the guy that hooked up my cable is Greek. He said he hated Turks. Is that type of anymosity typical?

147 posted on 08/08/2002 5:58:04 AM PDT by far sider
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To: a_Turk
Too smooth to be coincidental, but keeps lingering in my mind as a suspicion that we were suckered into joining the Germans.

Not really. Germany had aspirations to found a neocolonial empire but was a late starter compared to other European powers. Germany went to some considerable lengths to attempt to build railroads and other improvements throughout Arabia. They committed vast sums of money and made many diplomatic deals with other European powers to do this. World War I Germany was truly a friend to Turkey. There is some interesting economic history of this in Carrol Quigley's history text, Tragedy and Hope.

Let's be careful to distinguish WW I Germany from Nazi Germany. The two were very different creatures in their means and aspirations. And you need to understand that WW I Europe, outside of Germany, were all enemies of Turkey and worked to prevent anyone from helping Turkey to develop economically. WW I Germany was Turkey's only friend and benefactor, although not entirely disinterested of course. But Germany never made any real money off their assistance to Turkey.

If you're interested in the matter, I could perhaps type in some of Quigley's text. Quigley's focus on economic history is very valuable in understanding the era and the intrigues of the European colonial powers.
148 posted on 08/08/2002 6:01:23 AM PDT by George W. Bush
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To: dpwiener
>> How much risk do you think there is of Turkey succumbing to the religious fanaticism that has gripped the Arab-Muslim nations?

None whatsoever.
149 posted on 08/08/2002 6:02:55 AM PDT by a_Turk
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To: ARCADIA
Don't be offended by the Freeper who refered to Turkey as a pawn. In chess, the first offensive move usually involves a pawn taking control of the center of the board.

Well, let's remember that the pawn can, if moved to the heart of enemy territory, can then be promoted to the most powerful pieces on the chess board, all under the sovereignty of the king.

Turkish hegemony of a substantial portion of Arabia would be in our best interests.
150 posted on 08/08/2002 6:05:14 AM PDT by George W. Bush
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