Sex in the City of God - A couple make the case for contraception-free marriage.

NRO ^ | August 9, 2002 | Kathryn Jean Lopez

[Lamont Cranston]

The book is about much more than the contraception question though. Bethany makes a beautiful argument in favor of stay-at-home motherhood, and other choices the Torodes believe are keys to successful matrimony.

So they not only want to saddle parents with an ever-expanding brood, but they want it supported by a single income, which is no longer commonly possible in modern society.

[Askel5]

Then it's the fact that conception might still potentially occur that renders NFP acceptable? The fact that the possibility of conception still exists?

That's what renders it morally acceptable. In NFP, every conjugal act retains both its procreative and unitive aspect.

For thinking human beings, this removes the necessity for abortion as fail-safe insurance against the failure of the implements or chemicals with which one divorced sex from its procreative nature or engaged in sex with a person to whom one really did not wish to give themselves in toto.

[Askel5]

they want it supported by a single income, which is no longer commonly possible in modern society.

Primarily because women work and have ratcheted down the man's ability to bring home wealth even as they've ruined the workplace and invited in Uncle Sam to settle their every dispute and even -- or slant, rather -- their every playing field.

[Askel5]

Thanks for the flag.

[Lamont Cranston]

Primarily because women work and have ratcheted down the man's ability to bring home wealth even as they've ruined the workplace and invited in Uncle Sam to settle their every dispute and even -- or slant, rather -- their every playing field.

I agree, but the situation unfortunately isn't likely to change anytime soon.

[patton]

I have a 1-yr old daughter, a 7-yr old son, and a 13-yr old son. Wierd, but one takes what G_D gives you.

They, and my wife, are my life.

[Campion]

Q. What do you call people who use the 'rhythm method?'

You call them "nonexistent," since nobody has used calendar rhythm since the mid-1960's. ST or Billings NFP is not the "rhythm method". It's extremely reliable if used correctly.

By the way, my wife and I have used NFP for 8 years. Zero surprises, which is one less than we had using ABC. Your joke just doesn't reflect reality, at least not the reality I've experienced.

[realpatriot71]

My comment was made "tounge-in-cheek"

But I agree with you about anal sex being VERY unhealthy. All moral implacation aside, the digetive track is full of bacteria that are more than happy to take up residence inside the urogenital track. In the ER where I go to school they see more and more bladder and kidney infections because of this.

As to what is ok or not ok between a man and women inside of the marrige, Heb. 13:4 tells us that the marrige bed is undefiled. I think one could make a case that whatever goes on between a married man and woman sexualy is fine.

[patton]

I do it - my wife stays home.

[freeeee]

Your point about abstinence is well taken and I appreciate your reply.

However, my question was because of your reply to drjimmy:

Granted, the couple may strive to avoid having sex during fertile periods but -- if their conjugal relations are free of contraceptive implements or abortifacient chemicals -- there is always the potential for life which will be welcomed by the couple who recognize conception as a matter of God's will making their co-creative ability fruitful.

It appears that you differentiate between rythm (natural) methods and unnatural methods, based on the fact that natural methods hold a chance for conception. However so do unnatural methods. But then you speak of abstinance. But those who practice natural methods aren't abstinant.

Aren't those who practice natural methods equally guilty of being not abstinant? I'm just wondering exactly what makes them better. It can't be that they have a possibility of conception because so do those who use condoms. So, what is the difference?

Again, no flame intended. I'm genuinely curious and you seem well informed on this topic so I respect your opinion.

[Campion]

Exactly whether rythmn or pill or foam or scapel the end aim is the same sex without conception

It was Karl Marx, not Jesus of Nazareth, who said that the ends justified the means. Christian moral teaching is that one must pursue morally right goals by morally right means.

Merely pointing out that the "end aim" is the same does not establish the moral equivalence of ABC and NFP anymore than pointing out that robbing a liquor store and investing in the stock market both have the same "end aim," increasing one's wealth.

[Campion]

Heb. 13:4 tells us that the marrige bed is undefiled. I think one could make a case that whatever goes on between a married man and woman sexualy is fine.

Heb 13:4 says "Let the marriage bed be undefiled". It's an admonition. That one can be admonished to "let it be undefiled" implies that it can be defiled.

[el_chupacabra]

Bookmarking! Thank you for posting this! NFP is one of the many, many great blessings in my marriage!

[realpatriot71]

Hmmmm, my version (NKJ) says that the "marrige bed is not defiled" not "Let the marriage bed be undefiled". What version are you using? Do you have access to a greek NT? It might clarify the subject a bit.

[myrabach]

A single income is becoming more and more popular in modern Christian society, especially as parents decide to homeschool the children. Most I've talk to are amazed how well they are living as a one-income family and keeping an eye on the budget. Kudos to all those young families who are making this decision and finding that there is little suffering involved.

[Belial]

Abstinence by its very nature is an act of Self-Governance that is critical to the human psyche and evidences absolutely the uniquely human ability to foresee consequences and govern one's passions.

That's a good example of philosophy.

Something that sounds OK on paper, but has little bearing on the real world.

[Campion]

The NASB has it, "Marriage is to be held in honor among all, and the marriage bed is to be undefiled; for fornicators and adulterers God will judge." The Catholic translations with which I'm familiar are similar.

The Greek actually doesn't appear to have a verb, so it's ambiguous. It's something like: "Marriage held in honor among all, and the bed undefiled: fornicators and adulterers God will judge." I think concluding from that that anything goes between married couples is a jump of huge proportions.

[realpatriot71]

I think concluding from that that anything goes between married couples is a jump of huge proportions.

I'm not exactly taking that position, but merely pointing out that one could possibly make a case.

I wish I would have taken greek when I had the chance.