Bonds Hits 600!!!

KNBR radio | August 9th, 2002 | Sabertooth

[BluesDuke]

Babe Ruth hit 714 homeruns aganist pitchers from 120 million or so white Americans. Great black athletes were wrongfully excluded. So your argument with pitching talent does not work.

As were those from what has proven well enough to be a remarkable talent pool from Latin America. How would the Babe have done in an integrated game? Realistically: I don't know, and you don't know, and no one really knows. (Though it is fun to wonder just how Babe Ruth, with the kinds of pitching he could hit, might have fared against the like of Juan Marichal, who was not only fun to watch - he has said he actually practised that famous Rockette-high leg kick in a mirror to be certain he was keeping his gravitational balance in the delivery - but had about as kaleidoscopic a repertoire as any pitcher.) And now we've begun the tap into what seems to be at least a better than major league competitive pool from the Asian Pacific.

[BluesDuke]

I have no doubts about these guys ability bit I question how baseball can manipulate the ball.

So, as a matter of fact, did one of the most famous sportswriters in history:

I have always been a fellow who liked to see efficiency rewarded. If a pitcher pitched a swell game, I wanted to see him win it. So it kind of sickens me to watch a typical pastime of today in which a good pitcher, after an hour and fifty minutes of deserved mastery of his opponents, can suddenly be made to look like a bum by four or five great sluggers who couldn't have help a job as bat boy on the Niles High School scrubs.

That, ladies and gentlemen, was Ring Lardner, in a column he called "Br'er Rabbit Ball," revealing that it was the lively ball era of the Ruthian blast and not quite the Black Sox scandal which compromised his deep enough love of baseball. (By the way, if you have ever seen a photograph of Ring Lardner, have a look at the film Eight Men Out about the Black Sox scandal: director John Sayles cast himself as Lardner, and the image was striking - Sayles looked precisely like Ring Lardner, who did, by the way, write and sing a snide little ditty on the White Sox team train during that Series, to the tune of "I'm Forever Blowing Bubbles," which he called "I'm forever blowing ball games"...

[Bogey78O]

Nah, it counts. But I'm just saying the other guys were still better.

[BluesDuke]

I can't quote it,only pull from memory.When threatened with suspension by Kenesaw Mountain Landis for playing winter ball,Babe said something like"The hell with that old goat.If I want to play ball,I'll play ball!"

This was an incident before the 1922 season. Landis wanted to prohibit the Babe from going on yet another of his offseason barnstorming tours, tours which augmented Ruth's income rather handsomely. The Babe also said "that old goat" could "go jump in the lake," to which Landis replied, "It seems I'll have to show somebody who's running this game." And he suspended the Sultan of Swat for the first forty games of the season.

Oddly enough, Landis did have his moments of enlightenment when it came to baseball players who were otherwise treated as chattel in those years. When Pacific Coast League outfield star Earl Averill (he's best remembered for hitting the batted All Star Game ball that broke Dizzy Dean's toe and helped alter and compromise Dean's career, but read on) was sold to the Cleveland Indians by the San Francisco Seals, Averill asked how much of the sale price he could expect to see in his pocket. Told none of it, Averill refused to report. The case got such publicity that Landis was compelled to comment.

Now, get this: Landis may have been baseball's lord and master as its first commissioner, but one thing he didn't have the power to do was rule on player transactions or approve contracts. But he was asked his view, anyway, and here is what he said, more or less: Landis sided with Averill and said he could see no legitimate reason why if a player was sold the player shouldn't get a percentage of the sale price. As it turned out, the Indians in due course struck a bargain with the future Hall of Famer, offering him a $5,000 bonus to sign and complete the sale, which Averill accepted ($5,000 being big enough money in that era).

One can only imagine what might have been if Landis's view in this case could have been accepted as formal policy. (It sure wasn't, not by those owners in those days.) Think of St. Louis Cardinals catching star Walker Cooper, whom the New York Giants bought for $100,000 (it was the highest known player sale yet at the time) in the 1940s, and imagine if Cooper himself could have been entitled to a percentage of that kind of money. Is it possible that, had Landis's view of such things become formal policy, a lot of future mischief (like subsequent commissioner Bowie Kuhn banishing straight cash deals right out of baseball when he voided Charlie Finley's attempt to fire-sale his 1972-74 championship Oakland Athletics - merely because Kuhn couldn't stand the ground Finley walked on and might have done anything to stick it where Charlie O.'s sun didn't shine?) might have been avoided?

We will never know, alas.

[BluesDuke]

Up until the new stadium was built, the Yankees shared the Polo Grounds with the National League Team the Giants.

Question: Who hit the first World Series home run ever in Yankee Stadium?

Answer: No, it wasn't the Bambino. It was (drumroll, please) Casey Stengel...of the Giants...and, it was an inside-the-park job (Stengel ripped a long liner to the original, infamous "Death Valley" left-centerfield, and ran like a dervish to beat it out for his homer...Damon Runyon wrote famously about the homer, and the bulk of that column is reprinted in Robert W. Creamer's incandescent biography of the Ol' Perfesser, Stengel: His Life and Times). Casey hit a second homer in that Series, also at Yankee Stadium, and this second one went into the seats.

[bootless]

Oops!

You da BIG CAT!

Went to today's game - great game! And Santiago's first career slam ... after they intentionally walked Bonds for the third time! We gave the Pittsburg pirate some lung power... heh heh

[BluesDuke]

Nah, it counts. But I'm just saying the other guys were still better.

This could be debatable. As it happens, Babe Ruth was not a particularly gifted defencive player - he was barely above his league average in fielding percentage, and he was below his league's average for range factor. Barry Bonds is actually a better fielder than Ruth was. And if you are looking for someone who can beat you in more ways than even Babe Ruth could beat you, well, I don't know about you but I would have Willie Mays first (and this might be an extremely close call considering Mickey Mantle and Henry Aaron). Don't get me wrong, you'll still put Ruth on your All-Star team, rightfully enough, but I'd sooner have Willie Mays on my team given the absolute choice. And it is not exactly unrealistic to think that, assuming he continues his present performance levels, even Alex Rodriguez could end up proving to have been a better baseball player (if not quite a better power hitter) than the Babe. The Babe may well have been the greatest power hitter the game has ever known, but it is eminently debatable whether he was the greatest baseball player the game has ever known.

Ruth was also essentially a terrible baserunner (in 240 lifetime steal attempts Ruth had only 123 successful thefts - barely over half the time was he not thrown out stealing) was who often as not made too many costly mistakes on the bases (most likely because no one had the guts to tell him to knock it off) and, in at least one case, cost his team a final chance at winning one World Series with yet another basestealing attempt. The 1926 World Series is remembered best for hungover Grover Cleveland Alexander creaking in from the bullpen in the seventh to strike out Tony Lazzeri with the bases loaded and two out in Game Seven - but that is not the play which cost the Yankees that Series. They had one more chance to win the Series when Ruth got onto first in the ninth. With two out, Bob Meusel hitting and Lou Gehrig on deck, Ruth insanely broke for second, on his own initiative. He was out by about three county lines. Game, set, and match, St. Louis Cardinals. There are other teams on which the batter at the plate and the man on deck, having the bats taken out of their hands in the same situation with the World Series on the line, would have arranged a necktie party for him post haste - assuming the team's management didn't insist on unloading him post-haste for having his head up his ass instead of in the game.

[bootless]

Sayles looked precisely like Ring Lardner, who did, by the way, write and sing a snide little ditty on the White Sox team train during that Series, to the tune of "I'm Forever Blowing Bubbles," which he called "I'm forever blowing ball games"...

I thought of that scene after reading your first mention of Ring Lardner. That was my favorite scene in the movie.

[BluesDuke]

One of the treasures in my library is Ring Around The Bases, a hardbound collection (Scribners) of damn near every story and book Ring Lardner wrote about baseball, including some of his reportage of the 1919 World Series. Well worth hunting down. I was astonished at just how closely Sayles does resemble Lardner...

[Gillmeister]

Does anyone besides me NOT care about this? I remember years ago when Bonds went to divorce court to try to sway the judge that he could'nt pay any more alimony to his ex-wife and son.......this was while he was making over $5M a year. Ever since then, Bonds means nothing to me, it's all steroids anyway......Bonds, Sosa, McGwire.......etc.....

[rdb3]

Give me the Babe who looked like a common guy any day.

Puh-leeze! Babe Ruth couldn't even pick up Josh Gibson's jock strap.

In high school, I could bench 550lbs and rep it 7 times, yet in all of my baseball playing I only hit 9 homers (final average of .361). It ain't about strength. You have to hit the ball.

[rdb3]

I will agree with you about the bogus strike zone. Go back to the real strike zone and you fix a lot of problems with the game, but I don't go along with the watered down pitching argument.

I believe that you're forgetting the most important element: the pitcher's mound. They need to raise it like it was so that pitchers could get better leverage off of it. Just imagine what Pedro Martinez could do if they reverted the mound. Talk about some wicked breaking balls!

[rdb3]

Hey, man. I had to swipe that graphic. That's outstanding!

[rdb3]

Actually Bonds is the first member of the 600 club---that is, the first batter on roids to hit 600; Sosa will be the 2nd.

Prove it.

[rdb3]

steroid freak

Prove it.

[rdb3]

How many of 'em took steroids? One?

Again, prove it. If you can't, then you're just engaged in character assassination.

[BluesDuke]

Just imagine what Pedro Martinez could do if they reverted the mound. Talk about some wicked breaking balls!

Just imagine what he is doing. He shut the Twins out, 2-0, this afternoon, and ran his scoreless inning streak to 31. That was his ninth straight win and sets him at 16-2 and counting. I noticed at the All-Star break that the league earned run averages in both leagues had fallen significantly this season; the pitchers have been working a little harder to take a little, er, competitive balance back at the plate (at the break, nine of the National League's ten ERA leaders had ERA under three).

Meanwhile, on the other hand, up having a Rocky Mountain High this afternoon/evening is Sammy Sosa. He's just hit his third three-run homer of the game; the Cubs are leading, 15-1, after five innings in Coors Field. You think the Cubs might win a pennant if their lineup could produce like this or close enough to this every game?

[rdb3]

As were those from what has proven well enough to be a remarkable talent pool from Latin America. How would the Babe have done in an integrated game? Realistically: I don't know, and you don't know, and no one really knows.

That's exactly right. You could also throw Josh Gibson into this mix. He only played in the Negro Leagues.

[rdb3]

You think the Cubs might win a pennant if their lineup could produce like this or close enough to this every game?

Yeah, if only they could play in the Rocky Mountain thin air all the time! ;-)

[BluesDuke]

Again, prove it. If you can't, then you're just engaged in character assassination.

Amen to that, brother! By the way, a small correction on the Cubs-Rockies game: the score after five is 14-1. Like it makes a difference to the Rockies...