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Creation/Evolution in the News
Various ^ | 8/9/2002 | JennyP

Posted on 08/09/2002 10:52:13 PM PDT by jennyp

There have been a lot of little news items having to do with creation vs. evolution lately, each one not necessarily worth a thread on its own. Here are the last 10 days' worth of headlines culled from Creation/Evolution: The Eternal Debate:

Posted on 2002/08/09
New Fossil Discovery Sinks Evolutionary Theories

Harun Yahya - 2002/08/01
When the Toumaï fossil was found recently, and was quickly dismissed by some as just a female gorilla, most creationists rejoiced at the foolishness of those deluded evolutionists. But prominent Muslim creationist Harun Yahya is more impressed. He hopes Toumaï will "sink our current ideas about human evolution".

Posted on 2002/08/09
Scientific American's 15 Errors

Harun Yahya - 2002/08/01
Not to be outdone by the Christian ministry Answers in Genesis, the Muslim creationist Harun Yahya provides his own critique of Scientific American's recent "15 Answers to Creationist Nonsense".

Posted on 2002/08/09
Revolution in science: a genetic discovery to change the world

The Independent - 2002/08/10
RNA interference (RNAi) is a new technique for turning off individual genes that could turn out to be revolutionary for curing genetic diseases, cancers, & viral infections of all kinds, not to mention for our understanding of which genes do what. (Set of 4 articles)

Posted on 2002/08/09
Researchers' Latest Results in Search for Ancient Martian Life

NASA-JPL - 2002/08/02
In the latest study of a 4.5 billion-year-old Martian meteorite (ALH84001), researchers have presented new evidence confirming that 25 percent of the magnetic material in the meteorite was produced by ancient bacteria on Mars. These latest results were published in the journal Applied and Environmental Microbiology.

Posted on 2002/08/09
History of Science Society Adds its Voice for Evolution

NCSE - 2002/08/09
NCSE is pleased to announce a further addition to New Voices for Evolution: a statement from the History of Science Society reading, in part, that "such concepts as evolution and geological change are well established and belong in science curricula along with other basic scientific ideas. ... In view of this historical perspective, the History of Science Society disapproves of recent efforts by state school boards effectively to remove evolution as a subject from the secondary school curriculum, either through textbook disclaimers or censorship."

Posted on 2002/08/09
Speed of light slowing down after all?

AiG - 2002/08/09
...in addition to being different from the prediction of Barry Setterfield's theory, this research by itself does not support c-decay theory of the magnitude that Setterfield proposed. The change is billions of times too small. In fact, the newspaper hype surrounding Davies’ theory, and the quotes attributed to him, hardly seem to be justified by the Nature article itself, which is rather speculative. ...

Posted on 2002/08/09
KC conference explores evolution debate

Kansas City Star - 2002/07/29
Until intelligent design is accepted by a majority of scientists, don't look for it in public school science classes, a panel of evolution supporters said on Saturday (7/27). The idea that life arose not through unguided natural processes but from the intent of an intelligent being is an interesting postulate at this point, but nothing else, the panel said at a debate closing a Kansas City gathering of ID advocates. Four evolution advocates debated four ID adherents at the third annual Darwin, Design and Democracy conference at Rockhurst HS.

Posted on 2002/08/08
Moderates Lose 2 to Conservatives in Kansas Board of Ed Primaries

KC Star - 2002/08/07
Voters on Tuesday ousted two incumbent moderates on the Kansas Board of Education, raising the possibility that the board could return to a 5-5 moderate-conservative split. The split on the board has been an issue since Aug. 1999, when a then-conservative majority approved science standards that omitted many references to evolution, the big-bang theory and the age of the Earth. After a moderate majority was elected two years ago, the board reversed the 1999 vote.

Posted on 2002/08/07
Selection for short introns in highly expressed genes

Nature Genetics - 2002/07/22
Transcription is a slow and expensive process. Thus, at least for highly expressed genes, transcription of long introns, which are particularly common in mammals, is costly. We show that introns in highly expressed genes are substantially shorter than those in genes that are expressed at low levels.

Posted on 2002/08/07
T.O. Creates New Kent Hovind FAQs Portal

Talk.Origins - 2002/08/08
Talk.Origins has come out with a page that gathers together their several Kent Hovind pages, as well as several off-site links, into a handy starting point.

Posted on 2002/08/07
Save Me from My Comrades: Dawkins Disses Bush

Here - 2002/08/07
Inside a longer article re: Iraq appealing to England to stop the invasion: "A Guardian survey yesterday of leading politicians, diplomats, military chiefs and scientists showed the depth of scepticism across British society about any involvement in an Iraq attack. ... Richard Dawkins, an Oxford science don, suggested Mr Bush was just as much of a danger to world peace as Saddam Hussein, adding: 'It would be a tragedy if Tony Blair were to be brought down through playing poodle to this unelected and deeply stupid little oil-spiv.'"

Posted on 2002/08/07
Inconstant Speed of Light May Debunk Einstein

Reuters - 2002/08/07
A team of Australian scientists has proposed that the speed of light may not be a constant, a revolutionary idea that could unseat one of the most cherished laws of modern physics -- Einstein's theory of relativity. The team, led by theoretical physicist Paul Davies of Sydney's Macquarie University, say it is possible that the speed of light has slowed over billions of years. If so, physicists will have to rethink many of their basic ideas about the laws of the universe. "That means giving up the theory of relativity and E=mc squared and all that sort of stuff," Davies told Reuters.

Posted on 2002/08/06
Evangelical colleges paid to teach evolution

AiG - 2002/08/06
Increasing numbers of evangelical colleges around the world are accepting large monetary awards from the John Templeton Foundation to run courses that promote evolutionary teaching and millions of years. One such course, run by an evangelical Bible college and taught by theistic evolutionists, never touched on the implications of evolution and millions of years for the Gospel of Jesus Christ or the implications for the authority of Scripture.

Posted on 2002/08/05
AiG Strikes a Nerve

AiG - 2002/08/03
Ken Ham revels in the fact that Scientific American's lawyers accused AiG of copyright infringement when it responded to SA's recent article "15 Answers to Creationist Nonsense". Obviously it's proof that "the secular world is closely watching AiG and is trying to suppress our Biblical message", which "is seen as a serious threat by the ‘world.’"

Posted on 2002/08/02
Sheer vs. Real Possibilities: A Response to Allen Orr

designinference.com - 2002/08/02
This is Dembski's response to Allen Orr's review of No Free Lunch, which we reported on a week ago. Dembski repeats his demand that biologists produce actual causal explanations for IC structures instead of merely showing why they're plausible. At the same time, Dembski ignores Orr's critique of Dembski's use of No Free Lunch theorems to prove that Darwinism can't create specified complexity.

Posted on 2002/08/02
Human-Specific Retroviruses Developed When Humans, Chimps Diverged

U. of Georgia - 2002/08/02
Scientists have known that remnants of ancient germ line infections called human endogenous retroviruses make up a substantial part of the human genome. Once thought to be merely "junk" DNA, many of these elements in fact perform functions in human cells. Now, a new study suggests for the first time that a burst of transpositional activity occurred at the same time humans and chimps are believed to have diverged from a common ancestor - 6 million years ago. These new results suggest retroviruses may have had some kind of role in that divergence.

Posted on 2002/08/02
The Battle for the Cosmic Center

ICR Impact - 2002/07/25
Biblical teaching places man at the center of God's attention. Recent astronomical evidence restores man to a central place in God's universe. Over the last few decades, astronomers have become convinced that the red shifts of light from distant galaxies occur in distinct, evenly spaced groups. The Hubble Law implies that galaxies are expanding in evenly spaced spherical shells around us, who are sitting at the center of the universe - just where the Bible says we are.

Posted on 2002/08/02
Commentary on Scott and Branch's "'Intelligent design' Not Accepted by Most Scientists"

designinference.com - 2002/07/02
This is a must-read, if only to see Dembski say "All the design could have emerged through a cosmic evolutionary process that started with the Big Bang." Later, he compares evolutionists to the Taliban!

Posted on 2002/08/02
Boiled Creationist with a Side of Hexaglycine: Sarfati on Imai et al. (1999)

No Answers in Genesis - 2002/07/31
In an AiG web article titled Hydrothermal origin of life? Jonathan Sarfati manages to write three pages about a single five page original peer reviewed paper on growing short peptides in a simulated hydrothermal vent system, published in Science by Imai et al. (1999), and to make over seventeen errors of fact, emphasis or interpretation. Not bad, even for a fanatical creationist.

Posted on 2002/08/01
Updates to Talk.Origins Fossil Hominids Pages

Talk.Origins - 2002/07/31
Jim Foley's comprehensive set of pages on hominid & australopithicene fossils at Talk.Origins has been updated. Includes new pages on the spectacular new skull from Dmanisi, Georgia, which causes problems for creationists who claim that habilis is an ape and erectus is a human, the new 6-7 million year old Toumaï skull from Chad, and Homo habilis: is it an invalid taxon?

Posted on 2002/07/31
Pufferfish DNA Yields Clues to Human Biology [Another 1,000 Human Genes?]

DOE Joint Genome Institute - 2002/07/25
An int'l research consortium led by the US DoE’s Joint Genome Institute reported today on the draft sequencing, assembly, and analysis of the genome of the Japanese pufferfish Fugu rubripes. Pufferfish have the smallest known genomes among vertebrates. While it has roughly the same number of genes as the much larger human genome, it's in a compact form streamlined by the relative scarcity of the “junk” DNA that fills much of the human sequence. Through comparison of the human and pufferfish genomes, the researchers were able to predict the existence of nearly 1,000 previously unidentified human genes.

Posted on 2002/07/30
Race Is Seen as Real Guide to Track Roots of Disease

NY Times - 2002/07/30
Challenging the widely held view that race is a "biologically meaningless" concept, a leading population geneticist says that race is helpful for understanding ethnic differences in disease and response to drugs. Dr. Neil Risch of Stanford U says that genetic differences have arisen among people living on different continents and that race (i.e. geographically based ancestry) is a valid way of categorizing these differences.

Posted on 2002/07/30
Species and languages flock together

Nature Science Update - 2002/07/30
Areas with the most animal species also contain the greatest number of human languages, say researchers. The coincidence of biological and cultural diversity hints that preserving cultures may also preserve species, and vice versa. Development and conservation "probably need to go hand in hand", says Carsten Rahbek of the U. of Copenhagen. His findings call into question the wisdom of trying to save wildlife in remote uninhabited areas.

Posted on 2002/07/30
U.S. News and World Report joins in the evolution onslaught

AiG - 2002/07/30
U.S. News and World Report ran a major story pushing evolution on 29 July, 2002, giving it cover story exposure. The usual evolutionist hand-waving and bait-and-switch tactics were employed in a grand piece of propaganda. Here is our detailed response, interspersed between their actual item which is reproduced in full to avoid suggestions of misrepresentation:

Posted on 2002/07/29
Boeing tries to defy gravity

BBC News: Science/Nature - 2002/07/29
Researchers at the world's largest aircraft maker, Boeing, are using the work of a controversial Russian scientist to try to create a device that will defy gravity. The company is examining an experiment by Yevgeny Podkletnov, who claims to have developed a device which can shield objects from the Earth's pull. Dr Podkletnov is viewed with suspicion by many conventional scientists. They have not been able to reproduce his results.

Posted on 2002/07/29
Bacteria defies last-resort antibiotic

Nature Science Update - 2002/07/29
US doctors have reported the first case of a new strain of Staphylococcus aureus that is completely resistant to the antibiotic vancomycin, one of the last lines of defence against bacteria. Further outbreaks of infection are expected.

Posted on 2002/07/29
Jonathan Wells and Darwin's Finches

Talk.Origins - 2002/07/27
In Chapter 8 of Icons of Evolution, Jonathan Wells examines the case of "Darwin's Finches", and claims that textbooks exaggerate not only the importance of the finches to Darwin's thinking, but also the evidence that they are an excellent example of evolution in action. He also accuses biologists Rosemary and Peter Grant, who spent 30 years studying these birds, of exaggerating the evidence as well. As we shall see, Wells's case is weak. Darwin's Finches remain one of the best examples of adaptive radiation in the literature of evolutionary biology.

Posted on 2002/07/26
Book Review: No Free Lunch

Boston Review - 2002/07/25
Excellent, engaging article by Orr, as he cooly dismantles Dembski's latest book. Assuming his understanding of "NFL" was correct, his critique is devastating. And to think I found this at the ARN site! If they're highlighting this review, then it can only mean there's a fierce counterattack in the works. Read this article now to understand what all the fireworks will be about shortly.

Posted on 2002/07/25
Paranormal beliefs linked to brain chemistry

New Scientist - 2002/07/24
Whether or not you believe in the paranormal may depend entirely on your brain chemistry. People with high levels of dopamine are more likely to find significance in coincidences, and pick out meaning and patterns where there are none.

Posted on 2002/07/24
UCSD Researchers Identify Eye-Formation Strategy in Mice That Provides Clues to Development of Other Organs

UCSD Health Sciences - 2002/07/23
Researchers at the UC San Diego School of Medicine have discovered a linkage between proteins that is an essential part of the complex series of molecular events leading to normal eye development in mice. The investigators also suggest that the combination of specific proteins in eye formation may be similar to yet unidentified genes that act together to allow development of other organs.

(Excerpt) Read more at crevo.bestmessageboard.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: creation; crevolist; evolution
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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1 posted on 08/09/2002 10:52:13 PM PDT by jennyp
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To: *crevo_list
OK you crevo addicts. If you've been jonesing for a good crevo thread lately, here are a bunch of items to whet your appetite.

I guess any article in the bunch that you think is significant you can copy it over here for the archive.

2 posted on 08/09/2002 10:55:03 PM PDT by jennyp
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To: jennyp
It was interesting to see reference to "Muslim creationists." I thought it was funny actually. Here's a philosophy that hasn't had a new idea in 1700 years teaming up with a philosophy that hasn't had a new idea in 2000 years. :-)

Unfortunately the Muslims have captured their governments and all progress has been stopped in those countries. Thank heavens (pun unavoidable) that the fundie creationists haven't caputured government and ground progress to a halt yet in this country.
3 posted on 08/09/2002 11:08:19 PM PDT by jlogajan
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To: jennyp
Ahhh ... not only evolution, but anti-gravity too !
Great selection of articles, jennyp ... thanks. I read a few.

So, just so I can keep track of the game, is anti-gravity research considered anti-Christian too ?
4 posted on 08/09/2002 11:16:33 PM PDT by Camber-G
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To: jlogajan
Yeah, and atheism/paganism hasn't had a new idea in 7000 or so years. You know; infanticide, genocide, pedophilia, whatever. Humans are just material. Do with them what you want.

BTW, reply at your peril. I'm feeling like annihilating a few atheists tonight.

5 posted on 08/09/2002 11:30:57 PM PDT by HumanaeVitae
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To: HumanaeVitae
No reply. Didn't think so. Good night.
6 posted on 08/09/2002 11:46:10 PM PDT by HumanaeVitae
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To: HumanaeVitae
mega-dittoes - and now off to bed :-) Go for it - I am behind you 100%
7 posted on 08/09/2002 11:46:50 PM PDT by LiteKeeper
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To: jennyp
You might want to check True Origins as an able answer to Talk.Origins.
8 posted on 08/09/2002 11:48:49 PM PDT by LiteKeeper
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To: VadeRetro; jennyp; Junior; longshadow; *crevo_list; RadioAstronomer; Scully; Piltdown_Woman; ...
Incredibly great thread ping.
9 posted on 08/11/2002 7:25:27 AM PDT by PatrickHenry
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To: jennyp
From your second link (Harun Yahya's answer to Sciam's answers):

Scientific American's "15 Answers to Creationist Nonsense" is just such an example of "avoiding the truth." Right from the start, a number of those questions reveal that this is what is going on:

"Evolution is only a theory. It is not a fact or a scientific law."

"Evolution is unscientific, because it is not testable or falsifiable. It makes claims about events that were not observed and can never be re-created."

"If humans descended from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?"

None of the above are objections expressed by critics of the theory of evolution.

Huh? Harun Yahya (thought to be a pseudonym for a slew of different authors) has never seen an FR crevo thread.
10 posted on 08/11/2002 8:21:02 AM PDT by VadeRetro
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To: jennyp
Excellent list. Orr's article is spot on.
11 posted on 08/11/2002 8:34:12 AM PDT by Doctor Stochastic
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To: jennyp
Thanks, jenny!
12 posted on 08/11/2002 9:15:16 AM PDT by Aracelis
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To: PatrickHenry
Thank you for the ping!
13 posted on 08/11/2002 9:15:42 AM PDT by Aracelis
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To: HumanaeVitae
BTW, reply at your peril. I'm feeling like annihilating a few atheists tonight.

OOOHHHH, scarey!!...... NOT!!!
14 posted on 08/11/2002 10:57:10 AM PDT by Aric2000
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To: Aric2000
"Scarey" = "Scary". FYI. You know, God may not exist, but the dictionary does.
15 posted on 08/11/2002 11:04:59 AM PDT by HumanaeVitae
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To: Camber-G
I think it's about time the Creationists stop ignoring all the empirical evidence that has been collected over the years and realize there is something to this science thing. God's hand is mighty, and who's to say that he didn't use evolution, the Big-bang, etc. to bring about the world as we know it. It's just as arrogant of the Creationists to presume to know how God did it as it is of atheistic scientists to say He didn't do it.

I think Creation and Science go hand-in-hand. Why do I believe that? Look at all the "accidents" that had to happen to get us where we are. There had to be a hand guiding all of that. I believe God knows the order of how things had to be done for Earth to support all of the life on this planet.

There was book written a few years back (and if anyone can refresh my memory on the title and author, please do); the author was an MIT professor and Christian. He wrote this book by sitting down with scientific journals and the Bible to prove how both are right. For example, how the Pleiestocene Period was day 3(or maybe it was 5). He used the theory of relativity to show how Methusala could've lived to be 900, etc.

It needs to be pointed out that even though the Bible is the divinely-inspired word of God, one still must put it in it's proper historical context. The authors of the day knew who their "demographic" was and had to put it in proper perspective for it to be accepted and in terms early readers could understand. Those same folks would not be able to read an issue of "Scientific American" or "Popular Science" the way we do today because they simply didn't possess the understanding we now have.

16 posted on 08/11/2002 11:19:03 AM PDT by ward_of_the_state
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To: ward_of_the_state
I tend to agree wth your viewpoint also ... when the book of Genesis was written, people didn't even have the concept of the "zero", let alone a million or a billion.

Though current evolution theory is by no means complete or "all-explaining", I find alot of sense in "divinely guided evolution" type of creationism.
17 posted on 08/11/2002 11:51:34 AM PDT by Camber-G
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To: ward_of_the_state
Actually I'm not arguing against science here. The post that provoked my rejoinder was something like "Christianity has been useless for 2000 years" or whatever. Well, atheism slaughtered 180 million people in the past eighty years alone. Yep, eighty years. The best estimates of the number dead in Christendom over the last two millennia, in both offensive and defensive wars, is 4.5 million persons.

Atheism kills. That's my point. As far as crevo/evo, I'll leave that to the scientists (I'm a fan of Dembski's ID, but the jury's still out).

18 posted on 08/11/2002 12:07:04 PM PDT by HumanaeVitae
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To: HumanaeVitae
No, no - I didn't think you were arguing against science. But just as sure as you post your thread, there will be a creationist or two lying in wait to flame you. I'm trying to head 'em off at the pass! I don't have a whole lot of use for atheists, either.
19 posted on 08/11/2002 12:14:11 PM PDT by ward_of_the_state
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To: HumanaeVitae
Is that the best you could come up with? I am so disappointed.... and oh so scared!!
20 posted on 08/11/2002 2:00:44 PM PDT by Aric2000
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To: HumanaeVitae
Yeah, and atheism/paganism hasn't had a new idea in 7000 or so years.

"Aristotle, Euclid, Galen (etc)? Never heard of 'em. Must be evilutionists!"

21 posted on 08/11/2002 3:31:04 PM PDT by Stultis
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To: HumanaeVitae
Atheism kills. That's my point.

No, moral collectivism kills.

Meanwhile, atheism (or at least methodological naturalism - looking to nature for answers about the natural world) has saved millions of lives, increasing the average lifespan by 50% in the last 100 years.

22 posted on 08/11/2002 3:39:25 PM PDT by jennyp
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To: jennyp
Really.

So, putting club to skull is morally equivalent to not finding cures for diseases, eh?

Are you sure you want to defend that thesis?

By the way, I believe Newton was a Christian. Pascal as well. Anyway, any more hamfisted jabs?

If you're going to bring up the history of the Catholic Church etc., fine, I'll own up to Torquemada and the Inquisition, Galileo's suppression, and so forth. As a Catholic Christian I own that.

But guess what--as an atheist you OWN the Great Leap Forward (80 million dead), the neo-pagan Holocaust, the Cultural Revolution (20 million dead), Pol Pot's atrocities, the Stalinist purges, and on and on and on. Same ideas, same results.

By the way if you're going to come at me with Objectivism, which it sounds like you're going to ("moral collectivism"), good luck.

23 posted on 08/11/2002 4:09:21 PM PDT by HumanaeVitae
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To: Stultis
Got anything better than that? Put what you believe on the table and we'll talk.
24 posted on 08/11/2002 4:21:30 PM PDT by HumanaeVitae
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To: jennyp
A team of Australian scientists has proposed that the speed of light may not be a constant, a revolutionary idea that could unseat one of the most cherished laws of modern physics...

I can tell. I've really been sleepy lately.

Although when I was in college, I had a professor who wasn't impressed with the speed limit for light. In both optics and QM we had to deal with mathematical descriptions that had no physical meaning until they were multplied with their complex conjugates. Why not dynamics? The negative mass thing is still a puzzle to me though.

25 posted on 08/11/2002 6:47:10 PM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: jennyp
Nice collection of posts.
26 posted on 08/11/2002 6:50:17 PM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: HumanaeVitae
The best estimates of the number dead in Christendom over the last two millennia, in both offensive and defensive wars, is 4.5 million persons.

Better beef up your "best estimates." The Spanish may have killed at least that many Incas alone.

27 posted on 08/11/2002 7:14:46 PM PDT by PatrickHenry
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To: jennyp
No reply. Of course. Guess it's pretty tough to defend the idea that when pharmaceutical companies refuse to give their products away for free they're commiting "murder". Yep. See previous posts and think about it.

Atheism: the Big Lie of the 20th Century.

28 posted on 08/11/2002 7:16:50 PM PDT by HumanaeVitae
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To: PatrickHenry
By disease or persecution? If it was disease, did the Spaniards intend to do it? Is intent required for murder? Be careful here.

By the way, how many Incas died in ritual sacrifice on Pagan altars? I think I read somewhere that Christians put an end to that practice.

29 posted on 08/11/2002 7:21:14 PM PDT by HumanaeVitae
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To: HumanaeVitae
By disease or persecution?

Both. Far more from disease, no doubt. But milions of natives died in the mines, and on the plantations of the grandees. The actual numbers will never be known, as there was no reliable census pre-Colombus. Read up on the history of the Spanish empire in this hemisphere. It's not pretty. The reason they went to the trouble of importing Africans is because the indians were dying off. Genocide isn't new in the world. The commies don't have any monopoly -- but they sure did set some new records.

30 posted on 08/11/2002 7:27:34 PM PDT by PatrickHenry
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To: PatrickHenry
Really? Did those numbers equal the 180 (at least) million that were slaughered--deliberately--in 80 short years by your intellectual confreres, the atheists? Why don't YOU read the Black Book of Communism about the atrocities of atheism.

"But, wait, wait I'm not a communist!"

You're an atheistic materialist. Same thing.

"No man, no problem"--Joseph Stalin, commenting on the Purges

"One death is a tragedy. A million deaths is a statistic."--again, the secular-atheist Stalin.

31 posted on 08/11/2002 7:35:50 PM PDT by HumanaeVitae
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To: HumanaeVitae
Did those numbers equal the 180 (at least) million that were slaughered--deliberately--in 80 short years by your intellectual confreres, the atheists? Why don't YOU read the Black Book of Communism about the atrocities of atheism. ... You're an atheistic materialist. Same thing.

You know nothing of my beliefs. You know nothing of philosophy. You know nothing, period. In fact, you're an idiot. Wanna hit the abuse button? Go for it.

32 posted on 08/11/2002 7:41:02 PM PDT by PatrickHenry
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To: PatrickHenry
No. I'm just telling you that atheism leads to destruction. That's it. No need to report you. I was raised never to "tell the teacher". Wimpy.

Just friendly debate :-). If you're not an atheist, then we've got no discussion.

33 posted on 08/11/2002 7:50:08 PM PDT by HumanaeVitae
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To: PatrickHenry
"In fact, you're an idiot."

You sound like Alan Dershowitz...when cornered you insult.

34 posted on 08/11/2002 7:51:26 PM PDT by HumanaeVitae
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To: HumanaeVitae
When I encounter an idiot, I say it like it is.
35 posted on 08/11/2002 8:01:48 PM PDT by PatrickHenry
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To: PatrickHenry
Running joke is 'evo-science'...biggest cult of oxy-moonie-morons---art bells!
Like patrickhenry..."search for the creator via evolution"---

"total--only evolution" too---

The pope encyclical rightwingprofessor-whack thinks/interprets..."professes evolution"---

Nebullis..."preschool evolution---INTENSIVELY"---

donh..."if the sun can create crystals-snowflakes...human life would certainly follow"---

dominick harr..."just like a ball bouncing down the stairs----evolution created everything"---

jennyp..."anarchist evolutionary capitalism---Christianity is communism"---

and patrickhenry doesn't know..."if prior to darwin---if science existed"...

SkyRat...Divine hammer-retribution from above via evolution!

Running sores of evo schlock!


36 posted on 08/11/2002 8:04:17 PM PDT by f.Christian
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To: PatrickHenry
Ha, ha. Nah, I'll never hit the abuse button on you. People who resort to insults can't debate. I've done some checking on you by clicking on your name. Apparently you're nothing more than a crank. I tend to look to more intelligent people to debate with. JennyP looked promising, but she wouldn't defend her arguments. You...well you just fling insults. That tells me all I need to know about you.

Goodbye...HV

37 posted on 08/11/2002 8:05:34 PM PDT by HumanaeVitae
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To: jennyp
To: Dimensio

As I see it, evolution is an ideological doctrine. If it were only a "scientific theory", it would have died a natural death 50 - 70 years ago; the evidence against it is too overwhelming and has been all along. The people defending it are doing so because they do not like the alternatives to an atheistic basis for science and do not like the logical implications of abandoning their atheistic paradigm and, in conducting themselves that way, they have achieved a degree of immunity to what most people call logic.


488 posted on 7/29/02 5:18 AM Pacific by medved


38 posted on 08/11/2002 8:07:24 PM PDT by f.Christian
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To: HumanaeVitae
No reply. Of course. Guess it's pretty tough to ...

No, it's pretty tough to debate you when I'm off having dinner.

... defend the idea that when pharmaceutical companies refuse to give their products away for free they're commiting "murder". Yep. See previous posts and think about it.

Uh, whatever.

So you think I'm an Objectivist-Communist. Interesting, to say the least. Talk about A equalling Not-A! =:-O

So tell me about myself. Am I a Communist because I must be if I don't believe in a Grand Supernatural Authority Figure, or am I an atheist because my prior committment to the International Socialist Revolutionary Struggle demands it?

39 posted on 08/11/2002 8:49:54 PM PDT by jennyp
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To: jennyp
"Uh, whatever."

The "Janine Garofalo"-esque pithy-nonchalant non-answer does not constitute an argument.

"So you think I'm an Objectivist-Communist. Interesting, to say the least. Talk about A equalling Not-A! =:-O"

Apparently you remember at least part of "Atlas Shrugged". Hey, great.

"So tell me about myself. Am I a Communist because I must be if I don't believe in a Grand Supernatural Authority Figure, or am I an atheist because my prior committment to the International Socialist Revolutionary Struggle demands it?"

Magic 8-ball says "What? Need more info." Are you a Communist because you don't believe in a Grand Supernatural Authority Figure? No. But unless you prove otherwise, you are a materialist-determinist. If you need a definition of this, please ask.

40 posted on 08/11/2002 9:08:13 PM PDT by HumanaeVitae
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To: ward_of_the_state
I think it's about time the Creationists stop ignoring all the empirical evidence that has been collected over the years and realize there is something to this science thing.

Evolutionists keep repeating the above garbage endlessly, yet when I ask them for an example of a single Nobel Prize winning advance which is favorable to evolution they grow silent. When I say that all scientific advances in the last 150 years have tended to disprove evolution, they cannot find anything to refute it. When I state that Darwin has been disproven by science numerous times, they cannot refute it either.

Seems to me that it is evolutionists which are out of step with science, not the other way around.

41 posted on 08/11/2002 9:24:36 PM PDT by gore3000
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To: HumanaeVitae
"So tell me about myself. Am I a Communist because I must be if I don't believe in a Grand Supernatural Authority Figure, or am I an atheist because my prior committment to the International Socialist Revolutionary Struggle demands it?"

Magic 8-ball says "What? Need more info." Are you a Communist because you don't believe in a Grand Supernatural Authority Figure? No. But unless you prove otherwise, you are a materialist-determinist. If you need a definition of this, please ask.

Since all you know about me is that I'm atheist, I assume you believe that that necessarily implies materialism, which in turn necessarily implies determinism. Which somehow necessarily implies Communism.

What is your definition of "materialism"? Is it the same as "naturalism"?

42 posted on 08/11/2002 9:26:33 PM PDT by jennyp
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To: HumanaeVitae
By the way, how many Incas died in ritual sacrifice on Pagan altars? I think I read somewhere that Christians put an end to that practice.

What the Christian bashers forget to tell is that Cortez with just some 300 men could have never conquered Mexico without the help of Indians who were sick and tired of the murders and oppressions of the Aztecs. Pizarro, with a rag tag army of some 200 men could have never conquered the Inca empire either if it had not been that the people were sick and tired and drugged out from the mistreatment of their rulers.

43 posted on 08/11/2002 9:32:00 PM PDT by gore3000
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To: ward_of_the_state
Re your number 16 queery about the MIT Prof., you may be refering to Dr. Gerald L. Schroeder, author of "Genesis and The Big Bang" (around 1990) and "The Science of God", (around 1998) and in 2002 published "The Hidden Face of God". Last I heard he was Prof. at a Jerusalem University. He gave me a better understanding of God's universe we have the awesome honor of residing in for this short time.

Jim

44 posted on 08/11/2002 9:34:06 PM PDT by TailspinJim
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To: PatrickHenry
Far more from disease, no doubt. But milions of natives died in the mines, and on the plantations of the grandees.

People don't die from hard work, they die from disease. That so many died from disease is proof that the work is not what killed them. Even in parts of the Western Hemisphere where no white man had set foot, the deaths were horrendous.

45 posted on 08/11/2002 9:35:13 PM PDT by gore3000
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To: gore3000
When I say that all scientific advances in the last 150 years have tended to disprove evolution, they cannot find anything to refute it. When I state that Darwin has been disproven by science numerous times, they cannot refute it either.

Seems to me that it is evolutionists which are out of step with science, not the other way around.


You have actually said this?

No wonder no one takes you seriously, you have your head so far up your nether regions, the facts can't get to you.

You wouldn't know a scientific fact if it came up and bit you on your glutious maximus, if it could get around your head that is.
46 posted on 08/11/2002 9:35:43 PM PDT by Aric2000
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To: PatrickHenry
You know nothing, period. In fact, you're an idiot.

Another Patrick Henry 'refutation'. This one wins you a prize:


47 posted on 08/11/2002 9:40:11 PM PDT by gore3000
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To: PatrickHenry
When I encounter an idiot, I say it like it is.

You must talk a lot in front of the mirror!

48 posted on 08/11/2002 9:42:14 PM PDT by gore3000
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To: Aric2000
You have actually said this?

Yup many times and all I have gotten is insults like yours. Since it supposedly is so ridiculous, why don't you refute it instead of insulting? Or are you too busy too deal with facts, but not too busy to hurl unsubstantiated insults?

Here it is again, let's see if you can refute it:

when I ask them for an example of a single Nobel Prize winning advance which is favorable to evolution they grow silent. When I say that all scientific advances in the last 150 years have tended to disprove evolution, they cannot find anything to refute it. When I state that Darwin has been disproven by science numerous times, they cannot refute it either.

BTW - your failure to attempt to refute the above is proof of my statements!

49 posted on 08/11/2002 9:50:12 PM PDT by gore3000
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To: gore3000
ROFLMAO!!! That's all that that statement is worth, I am laughing at your facts, because they are absolutely ridiculous. AS USUAL!!!
50 posted on 08/11/2002 9:54:01 PM PDT by Aric2000
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