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MOLON LABE(Come and get 'em)
Multiple instances ^ | Unknown, though thought to be shortly after 500BC | Historical

Posted on 08/14/2002 7:11:57 PM PDT by Freemeorkillme

MOLON LABE

(mo-lone lah-veh)

In 480 BC, Xerxes (son of Darius, King of Persia) was in full preparation to invade Athens, the leader of the Greek city-states.

King Leonidas of Sparta (Left), another city-state, had agreed to help stop the invading Persians, and marched with 300 hand-picked troops to Thermopylae on the north coast of Greece. Thermopylae was the best of three possible defensive areas in which Xerxes' invading army had to advance. This mountain gap along the coast was about 60 feet wide, and was the best location for a blocking action.

When Leonidas was preparing to make his stand, a Persian envoy arrived. The envoy explained to Leonidas the futility of trying to resist the advance of the huge Persian army and demanded that the Spartans lay down their arms. Leonidas told Xerxes "MOLON LABE", or "Come And Get Them."

"Our archers are so numerous," said the envoy, "that the flight of their arrows darkens the sun."

"So much the better," replied Leonidas, "for we shall fight them in the shade."

After three days of fighting and having killed countless numbers of Xerxes' elite troops, they were finally overrun after being betrayed by a traitor who showed the enemy another pass behind the defender. King Leonidas and his Spartans were then killed to the last man. However, King Leonidas and his troops gave the rest of Greece more time to mobilize and increased their morale. Xerxes' eventually withdrew.

Today there is a plaque dedicated to those heroes at the site. It reads: “Go tell the Spartans, travelers passing by, that here, obedient to their laws we lie.” The point of this true story is when anybody demands you to give up your guns, tell them "MOLON LABE". You may fall in the first fight, but many more will step into your place.

homer quote


TOPICS: Government; Miscellaneous; Philosophy; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2ndammendment; bang; banglist; godsgravesglyphs; misc; molonlabe; rkba; sas
While the phrase is know to many, there are still quite a few who remain in the dark concerning the origin of this phrase and its the meaning conveyed to modern arms owners.

This thread is intended to be informative in nature.

In the course of many modern RKBA, 2nd Amm articles, arguments and discource this mantra will be quoted tirelessly and for cherished reasons. There have been several here who have had various inquiries as to the sign off "Molon Labe" in some of the RKBA related thread to which I've replied.

You will find further references in historical detail if you choose to search the internet, but the principle is adequately stated here.

Molon Labe,

FMOKM

1 posted on 08/14/2002 7:11:57 PM PDT by Freemeorkillme
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To: Freemeorkillme
Correction as to "Authors". I stated "after 500BC". That was supposed to be "after 400BC".

Apologies in advance.
2 posted on 08/14/2002 7:14:13 PM PDT by Freemeorkillme
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To: Freemeorkillme
For clarification, the quote on the plaque dedicated to those heroes is attributed to Homer. My posting style(or lack thereof) did not make this distinctive enough.

3 posted on 08/14/2002 7:18:09 PM PDT by Freemeorkillme
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To: Freemeorkillme

4 posted on 08/14/2002 7:20:29 PM PDT by hoosierboy
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To: hoosierboy
MWLWN LABE

5 posted on 08/14/2002 7:24:53 PM PDT by in the Arena
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To: Freemeorkillme
Reminds me of the Gonzales flag, from the Texas War for Independence. I guess at least one of those good ol' boys must have been a classical scholar.
6 posted on 08/14/2002 7:29:25 PM PDT by DeaconBenjamin
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To: Freemeorkillme
It was a stirring tale when first told by my Latin teacher forty years ago. The concept of "the line", so important to the Roman Army appears in the following account. Each account adds perspective. In this, we see a kill ratio of 1:10 to 1:20.

The Battle of Thermopylae

The Greeks realized that it was only a matter of time before the Persians came back. Darius died in 494 BCE, six years after Marathon. His son, Xerxes, would continue his work. The empire had already expanded as far south, north, and east as possible. The only way to go was west, and conquer Europe. The plan was formulated to invade Greece and Greek Sicily before raiding the rich Italian peninsula.

Xerxes started a large buildup of his army and supplies. He sent slaves to cut a canal through the peninsula at Mount Athos so that his fleet would not meet the same fate as his father’s ships. He had a bridge built across the Hellespont for the army to march across. This was done by lining up boats and connecting them with a bridge. The first attempt was destroyed in a storm, which cost the engineers their lives. The second attempt was successful.

Among the Persians was Demaratus. He had been a king of Sparta until he was exiled on false charges. He had served as an advisor to Xerxes in military matters in Asia Minor, but Xerxes did not seem to believe his advice when it came to the Greeks. Xerxes questioned Demaratus about the Greeks. Xerxes wondered if the Greeks would fight or surrender, considering their small number when compared to the might of Persia. Demaratus informed the King that the Spartans would give battle even if they had only a thousand men to take the field. Xerxes questioned this, asking if the Spartans were such men that they could expect to take on ten men each. Demaratus replied "One-against-one, they are as good as anyone in the world. But when they fight together, they are the best of all. For though they are free men, they are not entirely free. They accept the Law as their master. And they respect this master more than your subjects respect you. Whatever the Law commands, they do. And this command never changes: It forbids them to flee in battle, whatever the number of their foes. He requires them to stand firm – to conquer or die."

The Greeks were well aware that the Persians were building up a massive army. Many of the Greek city-states allied with the Persians to prevent their own destruction, especially those closest to Persia such as Thessaly and Macedonia. Athens got a bit of luck when they discovered a new vein of silver. Instead of dividing the profits with their citizens, Thermistocles convinced the assembly to invest the money in building up the navy. They were able to build and man two hundred additional triremes with the money.

A combined Greek army marched north to try to head off the Persian army in Thessaly at the Pass of Tempe, but they determined that the plain was too wide and it would be too difficult to defend against the Persian cavalry and superior numbers. They decided to pull their armies back.

Representatives from all of the Greek city-states that had not allied with Persia met at Corinth to determine the strategy. The city-states from Peloponnesia, including Sparta, wanted to form a defensive line at the isthmus near Corinth. The city-states east and north of this line wanted a defensive line further north. Thermistocles argued that if Athens fell then the Persians would use their navy to go around the defensive line. He argued that an army at Thermopylae would bottle up the Persians and eliminate the effectiveness of their numbers. Thermopylae was at a narrow stretch of land only 50 feet wide from the cliffs to the sea. Thermopylae took its name from the hot springs there that tourists would come to visit. The narrow pass would not be wide enough for the massive Persian army to out flank them, and it would prevent the use of the Persian Calvary. The Greek navy would protect the army’s flank from the Persian navy. Thermistocles even went to the step of putting the command of the army and navy under Spartan command if King Leonidas would lead the combined army.

Leonidas went back to Sparta to ask for dispensation for the Spartan army to miss the approaching religious holiday, Carneia. The Ephors refused the dispensation. They did not agree that the line should be so far north, but favored a defensive line at Corinth. Furthermore, they received an oracle from Delphi that either Sparta would mourn the loss of a King, or find their city sacked. Under Spartan Law, King Leonidas was allowed to march with his Royal Bodyguard of 300 soldiers without needing dispensation. He planned to march out with his 300 and meet up with allies. They would block the pass until the holiday was over and the rest of the Spartan army would meet them. He realized that it was essentially a suicide mission. The 300 were chosen from men who already had a male heir so that no family lines would die out. As he started the march his wife, Gorgo, met him and asked what she should do. He told her "To marry good men and bear good children."

The Spartans met up with allies along the way to increase their numbers to 7000 soldiers (estimates vary from 4,000 to 8,000). At Thermopylae there was an ancient wall built by the Phoecians to prevent raids from Thessaly, but it was now fallen apart. Leonidas immediately went about rebuilding the wall. He also sent a contingent of local Greeks to protect a goat path that went around the position. He was concerned that if the Persians found out about the track then they would be able to come around behind them and outflank them.

The Persians saw the wall being rebuilt but were not concerned by such a small force. They were more concerned with regrouping their army. The Persian army was so large (estimates vary, but about 200,000-250,000 is most agreed upon) that it took 5 days for the back to catch up with the front. They were literally drinking rivers dry. A spy was sent to see the defenses of the Greeks. The spy could not see past the wall, but was surprised to see the Spartans in front of the wall, combing their hair and doing gymnastics.

An envoy went to the Spartans to warn them to surrender. They explained that there were so many Persian archers that when the fired their arrows blotted out the sun. Leonidas responded "How pleasant then, if we’re going to fight them in the shade." Xerxes waited for five days expecting that the small Greek army would turn in flight as they saw the size of the Persian army opposing them. But the Greeks did not flee.

The first day of battle was mid August 480 BC. It started with the Medes attacking the Greeks in the Pass. The Greeks were able to defeat the Medes either by weapon, or by pushing them off the cliff into the sea. When there seemed to be a stalemate the Spartans would start to run back as if fleeing in fear. The enemy would run after them only to find the Spartans wheeling around and slaughtering more. At the back of the Persian line the commanders were whipping their men to storm forward. The Mede line grew thin and Xerxes sent in a second army, the Cissians, who did not fare any better than the Medes. Three times Xerxes is said to have jumped to his feet for concern over his army. As the first day ended the Greeks were still in the pass and many Persians were dead.

On the second day Xerxes sent another envoy to the Spartans. He told them that Xerxes had great respect for their courage and ability. If they put down their weapons and march away then Xerxes will let them live, and would place them at the head of the Persian army, as it’s first unit. When the envoy asked what answer he should give Xerxes Leonidas told him "Molon labe"-- come and take them. Xerxes proceeded to send in the 10,000 Immortals, his best troops commanded by his brother, Hydarnes. Like the Spartans, they were professional disciplined soldiers. But they did not have the armor and weapons to match the Greeks. Again, the results were the same, at the end of the day the Greeks still held the pass, but Xerxes had lost a brother and many of the Immortals. Now the whole Persian army was demoralized to see the crack Immortals defeated.

A traitor, Ephialtes, told Xerxes about the goat path. Xerxes had the traitor lead the Immortals around the path. He expected that the Immortals would be in position behind the army by noon the next day. Leonidas found out that the track was discovered. He dispatched most of the Greek troops to go back and wait for the next battle. The Thebians refused to leave and were given the position to protect the goat path. The Spartans would not withdraw. By this time many of the 300 Spartans were already injured or dead. Leonidas sent several back as messengers to save their lives. A couple of the older ones sensed what Leonidas was doing and refused to go, saying that they were a soldier and not a messenger. Two of the Spartans had lost their vision due to infection. One insisted on fighting anyway and was led blind into the battle. The other was led back to Sparta and soon regained his vision, but was treated by some as a coward. He proved his valor in the battle of Plataea, but was considered too reckless at that battle. Spartans believed that a man’s valor should keep him solid in the line, neither allowing him to run back as a coward, nor leave the line forward in recklessness. Either action would leave a hole in the line and endanger the other Spartans.

On the third day the remaining Spartans attacked with the aim to do as much damage as they could. Leonidas was killed and there was a fight to retrieve his body. The Spartans finally retrieved his body and retreated to a small hillock nearby. The Immortals found the Thebians unprepared on the path and quickly killed them. They came through the gate to surround the Spartans. Xerxes did not wish to risk further casualties and ordered his archers forward. Volleys of arrows finally killed the Spartans.

After the battle the body of Leonidas was identified. He was decapitated and his head put on a stake. The bodies of the Persian dead were quickly buried to hide the fact that so many were killed by such a small group. In all, about 1,000 - 2,000 Greeks died, while the Persians lost more than 20,000.

7 posted on 08/14/2002 7:38:42 PM PDT by PhilDragoo
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To: DeaconBenjamin
There's a great audiobook on this topic, the Spartan's stand at the Hot Gates (Thermopolae), read by Derek Jacobi of "I, Claudius" and "Gladiator" fame. Written by a wonderful American writer, the same guy who wrote "The Legend of Bagger Vance". I listened to it and passed it on to other "Gladiator" fans.
8 posted on 08/14/2002 7:42:05 PM PDT by Ciexyz
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To: PhilDragoo
Precisely the historical inspection I intended to illicit!

Modern relevance also anticipated.

Excellent, PhilDragoo.
9 posted on 08/14/2002 7:43:56 PM PDT by Freemeorkillme
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To: Ciexyz
The author is Steven Pressfield and the book is titled "Gates of Fire". Pressfield also wrote another great and engrossing novel of ancient Greek warfare, "Tides of War".
10 posted on 08/14/2002 7:46:42 PM PDT by Ciexyz
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To: Centurion2000
Ping
11 posted on 08/14/2002 7:57:32 PM PDT by weikel
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To: Freemeorkillme
"Modern relevance also anticipated."

The Alamo was called "the Thermopylae of the West"....not too modern.

12 posted on 08/14/2002 7:59:01 PM PDT by alphadog
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To: DeaconBenjamin


The Gonzales Flag, which flew over Fort Gonzales, Texas in 1835. The Mexican Army wanted a cannon back that had been given by the Mexican government to the fort to protect itself, so the fort sent them a message, "Come and take it!", and then fashioned a flag with the defiant message. The Battle of Gonzales began the Texas Revolution. This flag is THE first ever flag to show the Texas Lone Star.
13 posted on 08/14/2002 8:09:22 PM PDT by DeaconBenjamin
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To: *bang_list
bang
14 posted on 08/14/2002 8:10:23 PM PDT by Mulder
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To: Freemeorkillme
Thanks!
15 posted on 08/14/2002 8:59:48 PM PDT by secretagent
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To: PhilDragoo
Simonides epitaph for the Spartans:

"Fellow traveler, take this word to the men of Sparta: Tell them that we who lie buried here did what we told to do.
16 posted on 08/14/2002 9:04:32 PM PDT by vbmoneyspender
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To: vbmoneyspender
Oops.

"Fellow traveler, take this word to the men of Sparta: Tell them that we who lie buried here did what we were told to do."
17 posted on 08/14/2002 9:07:45 PM PDT by vbmoneyspender
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To: in the Arena
Funny... I must be studying too much Greek. MWLWN makes alot more sense than MOLON.

(W = omega = long o as in 'go'
O = omicron = short o as in 'or'
for anyone who cares about the difference.)

18 posted on 08/14/2002 9:16:11 PM PDT by jae471
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To: Freemeorkillme
Conneticut just joined other gun banning states and have made all AK-47s illegal if not registered. Registration will proceed confiscation in every case in the USA, it's just easier to get people to admit they own a gun ... then a few years later you politely write them reminding them that Big Brother knows you have this, and requires you to turn it in. "Molon Labe" may not be the right slogan for the tactics we face. They aren't asking for "it", they just want you to tell them about it. Perhaps "pound sand" would be a more appropriate motto - though without the historical overtones.
19 posted on 08/14/2002 9:16:28 PM PDT by Jack Black
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To: Jack Black
"pound sand"...

or General Mcauliffe's "Aw, nuts".

20 posted on 08/14/2002 10:57:24 PM PDT by in the Arena
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To: jae471
I made a bumber sticker out of MWLWN LABE and while on a cross country vacation I was stopped for speeding in Colorado. The officer asked me what fraternity I belonged to...:O)
21 posted on 08/14/2002 11:06:16 PM PDT by in the Arena
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To: Freemeorkillme
Fine, except that mentally ill loons are not allowed to own or possess weapons. That right belongs to rational, responsible people only, not to murderers or anarchists.
22 posted on 08/14/2002 11:09:43 PM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: Cultural Jihad
Fine, except that mentally ill loons are not allowed to own or possess weapons. That right belongs to rational, responsible people only, not to murderers or anarchists.

And I suppose you think the Government should assume that I'm a mentally ill loon, and require me to prove that I'm not one, before I'm allowed to own a weapon - so that the Government can continue to allow mentally ill loons to live among us... ?

yawwwnnn....

23 posted on 08/15/2002 12:14:56 AM PDT by fire_eye
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To: Squantos; Travis McGee; Joe Brower
MOLON LABE!
24 posted on 08/15/2002 7:11:44 AM PDT by Ancesthntr
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To: GummyIII
...bang...
25 posted on 08/15/2002 7:14:32 AM PDT by Freedom2specul8
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To: Cultural Jihad
HuH?? Did you accidentally post to the wrong thread?? What in the world does "mentally ill loons, murderers or anarchists" have to do with any shred of this thread??
26 posted on 08/15/2002 7:23:06 AM PDT by Freemeorkillme
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To: Freemeorkillme
What in the world does "mentally ill loons, murderers or anarchists" have to do with any shred of this thread??

Don't you know? Anyone who defies or criticizes The State is by definition mentally ill. They need to be placed in State mental health facilities so that they can "recover".

27 posted on 08/15/2002 7:34:15 AM PDT by RogueIsland
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To: Ancesthntr
bttt
28 posted on 08/15/2002 8:37:51 AM PDT by Travis McGee
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To: Travis McGee
bttt
29 posted on 08/15/2002 10:25:31 AM PDT by tang-soo
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To: Cultural Jihad
Anyone who is not to be trusted with the full rights endowed by our creator should not be free among the rest of us.

If someone cannot be trusted with a gun, they should (still) be locked up.

30 posted on 08/15/2002 2:28:16 PM PDT by MrB
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To: Ciexyz
"Gates of Fire" rocked. Heartily recommend it to my fellow Freepers
31 posted on 08/15/2002 2:39:41 PM PDT by MattinNJ
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To: MrB
Better yet, let them roam freely, just don't grant them items requiring responsible use, such as a car license or weapon. More than likely they are well able to conduct their affairs harmlessly enough, water their gardens, go shopping, chat with neighbors, etc. but they have demonstrated an incapacity to be responsible with dangerous instruments. Take them away, and they are fine in society for the most part.

32 posted on 08/15/2002 5:32:40 PM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: DeaconBenjamin

Gonzales, Texas

33 posted on 08/15/2002 5:43:19 PM PDT by blam
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To: Cultural Jihad; RogueIsland; MrB
Responses faaaarrr off topic. I suggest a reread of entire thread before posting here again.

Keep it on topic.
34 posted on 08/15/2002 6:17:08 PM PDT by Freemeorkillme
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To: jae471
As in: "moe-LONE lah-VEH?"
35 posted on 08/16/2002 9:40:27 AM PDT by Eastbound
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To: Freemeorkillme
Keep it on topic.

Who died and made you Thread Overlord?

36 posted on 08/16/2002 2:14:38 PM PDT by RogueIsland
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To: Cultural Jihad
The question I have for you is: Who gets to decide? You? No thanks, CJ. Go toke another doobie and get your head straight. Then maybe you can stay on topic.
37 posted on 08/16/2002 2:34:34 PM PDT by dcwusmc
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To: dcwusmc

Molon Labe

38 posted on 08/16/2002 6:31:54 PM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: Freemeorkillme
bump
39 posted on 08/16/2002 6:54:28 PM PDT by Cacique
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To: Cultural Jihad
And this picture means what, exactly?????
40 posted on 08/16/2002 7:04:03 PM PDT by dcwusmc
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To: Clemenza; rmlew; PARodrig; Yehuda
Classic old MOLON LABE Bump

MWLWN LABE

41 posted on 01/05/2003 4:43:21 PM PST by Cacique
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To: Cacique

Ok


42 posted on 04/18/2006 6:45:54 PM PDT by Coleus (RU-486 Kills babies & mothers, Bush can stop this as Clinton allowed it through executive order)
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To: Coleus
Back at you.


43 posted on 04/18/2006 7:04:15 PM PDT by Cacique (quos Deus vult perdere, prius dementat ( Islamia Delenda Est ))
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To: Freemeorkillme
I have actually been to the very spot where this happened. It is an awesome monument.






It is interesting to not ALL the men selected for the mission were selected because they were fathers and had male heirs. Leonidas wanted to ensure the bravery of these men would pass on to future generations.
44 posted on 04/18/2006 7:14:43 PM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: longtermmemmory

typo correction

"It is interesting THAT ALL..."


45 posted on 04/18/2006 7:16:02 PM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: Cultural Jihad

I don't have any idea what Jonestown has to do with this.

A better translation that I have seen is this.

"Go tell the Spartans stranger passing by, that here obedient to our laws we lie."

"Gates of Fire" by Steven Pressfield is a fantastic historic novel that covers the battle.


46 posted on 08/19/2006 12:38:02 AM PDT by Tailback
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47 posted on 08/19/2006 1:53:23 AM PDT by KneelBeforeZod (I have five dollars for each of you)
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A Blast from the Past.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.
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48 posted on 03/02/2007 9:12:48 PM PST by SunkenCiv (I last updated my profile on Thursday, February 19, 2007. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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something I made for another use...but here it is for a bump http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/3062/molonlabeev6.jpg
49 posted on 08/04/2007 10:49:25 PM PDT by KneelBeforeZod (I have five dollars for each of you)
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50 posted on 09/06/2008 11:31:29 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/_______Profile hasn't been updated since Friday, May 30, 2008)
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