Defending the Deuterocanonicals

CIN ^ | James Akin

[JMJ333]

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[JMJ333]

For reference when someone brings up the fact that they don't recognize Maccabees or other books that have been omitted from protestant bibles.

[JMJ333]

ping?

[Polycarp]

Thank you ;-) Great apologetics resource...pinging!

[JMJ333]

Thanks! :-)

[Polycarp]

when someone brings up the fact that they don't recognize Maccabees or other books that have been omitted from protestant bibles

The Pontifical Biblical Commission document we are discussing on the other threads has a good discussion of the differences between the OT canons and why and how they occurred.

[Salvation]

Like I always say to people, "Why would I use a Bible that was written by a "king james" when I can have the "inspired by God" Bible in the Septuagint?

They can't answer.

[Desdemona]

You know, I've been asked by protestants why Catholics don't have Revelation in the bible...

One Sunday at my church job, I was looking for something in their bible and couldn't find it. I counted the books and there weren't enough. Never could figure that out. Now i know why. Thank you.

[EODGUY]

Thank you for the very informative post. I haven't seen much of a defense mounted by the usual suspects. :)

Bookmarked for reference.

God bless,

EODGUY

[JMJ333]

You're Welcome! =)

I think the name title is part of why it has gotten little attention because it really is a heavy hitting piece. Probably most think it has nothing to do with apologetics. ;)

[Gophack]

Also by James Akin, here's a list of Deuterocanoncal references in the NT, ESSENTIAL in apologetics because it shows that Jesus and the Apostles had and refered to deuterocanoncal scripture when spreading the Gospel.

Deuterocanonical References in the New Testament

[JMJ333]

Thanks! Bookmarking for future reference...

[JMJ333]

Thanks! Bookmarking for future reference...

[JMJ333]

Any comments?

[drstevej]

***The reason they were dropped is that they teach Catholic doctrines that the Protestant Reformers chose to reject.***

Any other "Catholic doctrines" other than prayer for the dead/purgatory [2 Macc. 12:41-45] taught in these books? The indication is that there are other doctrines as well that Protestants were seeking to avoid.

Or are we debating only four verses of doctrinal significance?

[JMJ333]

Not sure as it covers a lot of material, but the link in 12 provides a bridge between new and old and what is a reference to what.

Regardless, one still has to ask why these books, which Luther still used as an appendix were dropped altogether, and why specifically wouldn't books like Maccabees be used. What is your argument against maccabees?

[drstevej]

Before we go further I would like to establish whether we are debating only four verses when it comes to doctrine. This is a significant point.

Let's define the doctrinal issues that depend on these books. Certainly you are quite familiar with them. I am not asking for an exhaustive list. List the key doctrines taught in these books and a central passage for each.

[JMJ333]

Well doc, that is a bit of an attempt to throw me off topic because I have already said that there is too much to cover. I would have to go and read the references for me to give you a list of which doctrine is taught where. My main point is that of the authors. Namely:

The Christian acceptance of the deuterocanonical books was logical because the deuterocanonicals were also included in the Septuagint, the Greek edition of the Old Testament which the apostles used to evangelize the world. Two thirds of the Old Testament quotations in the New are from the Septuagint. Yet the apostles nowhere told their converts to avoid seven books of it. Like the Jews all over the world who used the Septuagint, the early Christians accepted the books they found in it. They knew that the apostles would not mislead them and endanger their souls by putting false scriptures in their hands -- especially without warning them against them.

But the apostles did not merely place the deuterocanonicals in the hands of their converts as part of the Septuagint. They regularly referred to the deuterocanonicals in their writings. For example, Hebrews 11 encourages us to emulate the heroes of the Old Testament and in the Old Testament "Women received their dead by resurrection. Some were tortured, refusing to accept release, that they might rise again to a better life" (Heb. 11:35).

There are a couple of examples of women receiving back their dead by resurrection in the Protestant Old Testament. You can find Elijah raising the son of the widow of Zarepheth in 1 Kings 17, and you can find his successor Elisha raising the son of the Shunammite woman in 2 Kings 4, but one thing you can never find -- anywhere in the Protestant Old Testament, from front to back, from Genesis to Malachi -- is someone being tortured and refusing to accept release for the sake of a better resurrection. If you want to find that, you have to look in the Catholic Old Testament -- in the deuterocanonical books Martin Luther cut out of his Bible.

So if the apostles used the Septuagint, and regularly referred to it, why should we?