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UN WARNS OF UNDERPOPULATION WOES IN DEVELOPED COUNTRIES
LifeSite ^ | August 20, 2002 | LifeSite

Posted on 08/20/2002 6:58:02 PM PDT by Polycarp

LifeSite Daily News

Tuesday August 20, 2002

UN WARNS OF UNDERPOPULATION WOES IN DEVELOPED COUNTRIES

NEW YORK, August 20, 2002 (LSN.ca) - The New York Times issued warnings from United Nations Statistics chief Dr. Joseph Chamie today noting the soon-to-be-felt high toll of the low birth rate in developed countries. The paper described the current situation of low births and growing elderly populations as dynamics which "cause havoc" in retirement systems such as those in place throughout most of the developed world.

The paper reports that in countries such as Italy with a fertility rate of 1.2 children per woman, contributions of workers into the social security system can be as high as 40 percent of their salaries. Dr. Chamie and other experts warn of drastic changes that will be required to cope with the effects of underpopulation.

"The age of retirement will have to increase. The benefits to the elderly will probably decrease. Taxation for the workers will probably increase," said Dr. Chamie. Another expert Dr. Paul Samuelson spoke about mandating saving for retirement, "voluntarily or coercively, in our working years in order to be able, given our numbers, to pay for our longer years of retirement."."

While noting the disastrous effect of radical population control in the developed world, the United Nations nevertheless suggests poor countries maintain strict population control. While the UN suggests population control in the developing world will serve to better economies other studies have suggested the opposite.

In fact, the U.S. National Security Study Memorandum 200 (NSSM 200), written by Henry Kissinger was designed to counter growing populations in developing nations so that they would not threaten U.S. economic superiority. NSSM 200, subtitled "Implications of Worldwide Population Growth for U.S. Security and Overseas Interests," warned that increasing populations in developing countries threatened U.S. strategic, economic, and military interests. It suggested that competition from new world powers would rise when developing nations had sufficient populations to utilize their national resources to their full potential.

See more LifeSite coverage on NSSM 200: http://216.122.249.80/waronfamily/nssm200/index.html

See the NYT coverage: http://www.nytimes.com/2002/08/20/science/earth/20ECON.html


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News
KEYWORDS: catholiclist
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To: glc1173@aol.com
Although I agree immigration should be controlled, I would like to see more upper and middle class families having more children. France and Germany have attempted to pay native women subsidies to bring their populations up to replacement level with little success.

BTW: Myself and my colleagues have been doing quite well in recent years. I don't see too many middle and upper income Americans "suffering on the bread line" as you seem to imply.

21 posted on 08/20/2002 10:35:45 PM PDT by Clemenza
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To: Polycarp
Amazing, amazing. They have been telling the whole world that their is an over-population problem. Now this.

Oh, well, what's new about the UN speaking out of both sides of its mouth?

22 posted on 08/20/2002 11:30:53 PM PDT by Salvation
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To: Selara
I bet there is a hidden agenda behind this one. I think there will be a report next where it's said that developed countries should take in a lot of immigrants from under-developed countries to stop this decline.
23 posted on 08/21/2002 3:10:35 AM PDT by knighthawk
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To: patriot5186
No... women in Islamic countries have more kids because:

1. They have no choice but to submit to the will of the husband and no other place to be than the home.
2. They are second class citizens and so, have to submit to the rapists too.
3. Being childless is considered shameful.
4. Women wed as children, and so get started early.
5. People do not know about contraceptives.
6. Men won't use rubbers because it is unmanly.
7. Male heirs are considered important; if you don't succeed, try, try again.
8. Education is poor and neither males nor females have anything else to do and are not concerned about whether or not they have the means to feed another mouth before they get in bed.
9. Male children are considered essential for taking care of the parents in their old age, so male children are considered an insurance policy.
10. Child labor in the fields or in other areas is often the only way to keep a the parent's and other family members afloat. (This includes things like the sale of male children to perverts in Afghanistan for sex toys and the small bit of wealth the sale can bring.)
11. Women have virtually no choice in who they marry; men who in western countries would be unsuitable marriage material doomed to 'extinction' can get a mate, and have children, when the women are a 'captive audience.'

In prosperous countries, people are better educated and want to explore more of what life has to offer. This means:

1. People marry later in life, and this takes away the woman's prime childbearing years.
2. People spend more time in school and at work in order to have the kind of lifestyle they want, rather than do without in order to have many children. There is less time to spend in bed but a great deal more time to spend traveling, learning to fly, sail, to scuba dive, etc, things people in third world countries or people with too many kids to support simply can't do.
3. Traveling and lifestyles of westernized people often involve considerable time apart from one's mate. We don't spend our entire lives in a 15 mile circle, not knowing what lies over the next hill.
4. Having children in prosperous countries is considered to be a great expense, tax-deductions or not. Women want to have good health care so they won't end up dying very young or dying in their thirteenth pregnancy like their grandmother did. Health care concerns cost money and sometimes even more time at work to acquire, as so many people are forced to work to obtain health insurance owing to the enormously inflated costs of health care we have because of lawsuits and malpractice insurance, and paying for indigent health care and so forth. In western countries children must be educated and this also incurs expenses and hassles not seen in third world countries.
5. Children are not seen as neccessary to provide care for aging parents and frequently leave that duty to the society at large. Adults often prepare for their old age and so, have no need to rely on children and grandchildren.
6. Children in western countries are not viewed as potential field hands- indeed, they can't work by law.
7. The likelihood of raising a kid to adulthood is very high in western societies, and so, people do not feel the need to have numerous offspring to ensure passing on their name and genes. They have one or two kids and then decide to stop so they can maintain their status quo.
8. Western children are frequently spoiled and whiney; so people are reluctant to have too many of them because they assume children are more expensive than they really have to be. They wait longer and longer to save the money they think is neccessary to have a kid because costs are so inflated by submitting to material concerns.
9. The most successful people in westernized countries must work to support the least successful through taxation; thus the people able to support and successfully raise the most kids are unable to do so because the wealth that would go towards producing a large family is confiscated. This confiscation requires even more time away from family life, which limits childbearing time and also can result in a high divorce rate, which also impacts the birth rate. While their money frequently goes to support the least successful people, to the point of 'subsidizing' out of wedlock births, the less successful people are not as able to raise kids successfully and often resort to abortions, child abandonment, and neglect. Thus the infant mortality is high among the less successful. The number of children per family is lower.
10. Westernized countries are also places of freedom of personal choice. There is decision-making involved in every aspect of life; nothing is simple. Educated people are more aware of consequences and think everything through in order to virtually plan the kid's life out before even having him. This takes away from family time and makes people reluctant to have large families with all of the worries that go with them, particularly when there is no need to have as many kids as possible.
11. And thanks to lawyers prospective parents have to worry about their kids suing them. ;-)

24 posted on 08/21/2002 4:18:00 AM PDT by piasa
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To: knighthawk
BINGO. That's what they have been saying. I think there was even talk of penalizing the US for not taking our 'share.' I come from the school of thought that it is better to help make people in other countries wealthier by exporting freedom - then their populations will decline as people start enjoying more of life, and fewer people will be so desperate that they have to flee their homelands. It is a slow process, made slower still by people promoting poverty via marx and distrust of freedom, unfortunately.
25 posted on 08/21/2002 4:28:15 AM PDT by piasa
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To: knighthawk
hidden? this is exactly what they want and they say it out loud all the time. also see the comments from most economists: white countries must surrender to hordes of non-whites or their economy might not be so good. oh the horror!
26 posted on 08/21/2002 6:13:45 AM PDT by jody
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To: FITZ
It's not just third world immigration that will harm us--immigration of any kind at today's massive rates spells disaster for our freedoms.

The more immigrants you have, the more government you get.

The more immigrants you have, the more you're forced to share.

The more immigrants you have, the harder you have to work.

The more immigrants you have, the fewer resources you have.

The more immigrants you have, the more laws and regulation you'll have.

The more immigrants you have, the less your vote means.

The more immigrants you have, the less freedom you have.

But the powers that be aren't concerned: They'll be living behind the walls of their country estates drinking Perrier with the money we peons pay them to recycle toilet water for us to drink.
27 posted on 08/21/2002 7:28:43 AM PDT by Age of Reason
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To: Polycarp
If you want to see the UN's scenario played out LIVE, look at the economic situation in Japan.

No children consuming; most everyone is heading for retirement, thus saving---no consumption there, either.

Nikkei index down more than 50% (maybe more) in last 10 years, unable to resurrect itself.

28 posted on 08/21/2002 7:47:41 AM PDT by ninenot
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To: Utah Girl
France IS paying for motherhood. Dunno about Germany. England is at least considering additional tax benefits for mothers.
29 posted on 08/21/2002 7:48:58 AM PDT by ninenot
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To: FITZ
I can name one REALLY GOOD reason for the inability of large families to assume middle class status: tax penalties for having children.

Extrapolate the 1955 'child exemption' to today and the number should be around $7,500. rather than $2,300. We could go on....for example, the sales tax in most states has not only risen but applies to a broad spectrum of goods--lots of which are purchased for raising children.
30 posted on 08/21/2002 7:52:24 AM PDT by ninenot
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To: Polycarp
Well duh! Are these people stupid or what? Can't have a high birth rate--that'll cause overpopulation. Can't have a low birth rate--that'll mess up our welfare systems. I guess we'll just have to keep the status quo exactly from now on.

This is what you get when you have former communists in charge of the United Nations. They think they can control everything. May they be proven wrong AGAIN in very short order.
31 posted on 08/21/2002 10:33:07 AM PDT by Antoninus
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To: Age of Reason
Low birth rate in developed countries is good news as far as I'm concerned.

Tell me, oh reasonable one, with a 0% population growth, would our economy continue to grow?
32 posted on 08/21/2002 10:38:42 AM PDT by Antoninus
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To: Polycarp
"UN WARNS OF UNDERPOPULATION WOES IN DEVELOPED COUNTRIES"

Well, when we have legalized killing your own unborn baby at will (and when there are groups out there that actually encourage this sort of thing), what else can one expect?

33 posted on 08/21/2002 10:44:55 AM PDT by MEGoody
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To: Age of Reason
Some quotes from Teddy Roosevelt on the subject:

On motherhood as the true source of progress:

"A more supreme instance of unselfishness than is afforded by motherhood cannot be imagined."

Before an audience of liberal Christian theologians in 1911, he said:

"If you do not believe in your own stock enough to see the stock kept up, then you are not good Americans, you are not patriots, and ... I for one shall not mourn your extinction; and in such event I shall welcome the advent of a new race that will take your place, because you wil have shown that you are not fit to cumber the ground."

On the centrality of the child-rich family to the very existence of the American nation:

"It is in the life of the family, upon which in the last analysis the whole welfare of the nation rests....The nation is nothing but the aggregate of the families within its borders."

On parenthood:

"No other success in life, not being President, or being wealthy, or going to college, or anything else, comes up to the success of the man and woman who can feel that they have done their duty and that their children and grandchildren rise up to call them blessed."

On out-of-wedlock birth versus practiced sterility:

"After all, such a vice may be compatible with a nation's continuing to live, and while there is life, even a life marred by wrong practices, there is a chance of reform.

In another place, on the same subject:

"...[W]hile there is life, there is hope, whereas nothing can be done with the dead."

On the behavior of 90% of those who practice birth control:

"[It is derived] from viciousness, coldness, shallow-heartedness, self-indulgence, or mere failure to appreciate aright the difference between the all-important and the unimportant."

On the "pitiable" child-rearing record of graduates of women's colleges like Vassar and Smith who bore only 0.86 of a child each during their lifetimes:

"Do these colleges teach 'domestic science'?... There is something radically wrong with the home training and school training that produces such results."
34 posted on 08/21/2002 10:46:21 AM PDT by Antoninus
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To: TheBattman
Did I miss something? The global population is still rising.

I don't like the UN, but its the message, not the messanger that should be heard here. They are accurately pointing out the consequences of low population growth in DEVELOPED (read western) nations to the stability of the economies of those nations. Most of Europe, China, and other places are in slowing growth or population decline and the impacts on work force availability and retirement costs pointed out here are correct. The US would be in the same boat if it were not for its immigration policy, like it or not (and I am not in favor of open borders - I do favor the 'Bring us your best and brightest who want to assimilate' policy).

OTOH, the poorest nations, and coincidently the muslem populations, are growing while their standard of living does not improve. The result is an unstable future and threat for us (those western nations and civilized governments.)

This warning is echoed in studies from our own think tanks and advisors on national security, so focus on the message.

You do have my permission to shoot the messenger. :)

35 posted on 08/21/2002 10:52:00 AM PDT by Magnum44
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To: Antoninus
Tell me, oh reasonable one, with a 0% population growth, would our economy continue to grow?

Prosperity is more important than the economy.

36 posted on 08/21/2002 10:57:42 AM PDT by Age of Reason
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To: Antoninus
Some quotes from Teddy Roosevelt on the subject:

Theordore (he detested the vulgar nickname, "Teddy") Roosevelt also hoped to conquer Canada to obtain room for all those gazillion Americans he hoped to add.

But since America hasn't acquired lebensraum in Canada and appears unlikely to do so in the future, we have no more room for any more people unless you like being forced to share and forced to take turns by more government and more laws regimenting your existence.

I would rather be free.

37 posted on 08/21/2002 11:18:36 AM PDT by Age of Reason
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To: Magnum44
They are accurately pointing out the consequences of low population growth in DEVELOPED (read western) nations to the stability of the economies of those nations.

It is not so much the stability of the economy that is threatened.

It is more the wealth-producing methods of the wealthy that are threatened.

Wealth-producing methods that depend on the Sisypean need for increasing numbers of people to sustain production.

38 posted on 08/21/2002 11:39:04 AM PDT by Age of Reason
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To: Age of Reason
It is not so much the stability of the economy that is threatened.

It is more the wealth-producing methods of the wealthy that are threatened.

Its much more than stability of the economy. Its has to do with everything that is involved in national security. It could take months to debate what all is included in that - culture, ideology, economy, soveriegnty, etc. I wont presume, but your comment sounds like you have something against society where some are more wealthy than others. I wont debate that philosophy if that is the case, except to say I believe in the free enterprise system and that those who work hard and take risks will have opportunities to rise in financial stature and at the same time provide employment opportunities for others. I don't have a problem with this as long as its ethical.

But, back to the article, the threat to western culture and indirectly world stability by western population decline with respect to the third world population boom is very real.

39 posted on 08/21/2002 12:37:23 PM PDT by Magnum44
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To: ninenot
"I can name one REALLY GOOD reason for the inability of large families to assume middle class status: tax penalties for having children."

"Extrapolate the 1955 'child exemption' to today and the number should be around $7,500. rather than $2,300."

So it's a "penalty" that the child exemption has gone down, adjusting for inflation?

There shouldn't be any child exemption at all.

"We could go on....for example, the sales tax in most states has not only risen but applies to a broad spectrum of goods--lots of which are purchased for raising children."

There's an easy solution here...only the rich should have children. The poor shouldn't have children, unless the parents are willing to make extraordinary financial sacrifices to raise the children to adulthood.
40 posted on 08/21/2002 3:08:45 PM PDT by Mark Bahner
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