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AMNESTY FOR ILLEGAL ALIENS? (a question for Freepers)
August 22nd, 2002 | Sabertooth

Posted on 08/22/2002 7:04:53 AM PDT by Sabertooth

This is a vanity post, let's get that straight from the start.

Perhaps the most vain aspect of it is the conceit that it might stay on topic, but I'm going to give it a whirl.

One of the more contentious species of threads encountered on Free Republic are those dealing with the subject of America's immigration policy, particularly with regard to the Illegal Aliens currently in our country. According a range of reasonable sources, the estimates of their numbers here currently here range from six to thirteen million. Whatever the actual count, there are quite a few people now in violation of American immigration law.

One subtopic that inevitably arises is the question of Amnesty:

Should all or some portion of the Illegal Aliens be granted an Amnesty and be thereby allowed to change their status and acquire legal residence in the United States?

That's the question I'd like to put forward to the members of Free Republic.

Almost as inevitably on threads dealing with this subject, flame wars erupt. It's not my purpose to instigate another round of that, they're rather predictable. So I'd like to ask that your comments, if you're inclined to share them, focus on the big picture of American immigration policy, with particular attention to the subject of Amnesty. I'm not interested in the stock and gratuitous divisiveness of race-baiting or referring to the President as "Jorge," or anything of that nature from any quarter. It achieves nothing, it's sulphurous methane heat with no light shed.

I'd also like to avoid ad hominem ambushes. I'm genuinely interested in learning the collective feelings of Free Republic members on this subject. If you're gonna post, I'd like to ask that you ante up with your opinion on the question at hand before engaging the discussion with others. No taking potshots from the obscurity of the sidelines. I'll post my opinion below at #1.

Fair enough?

So, once again, here's the question:

Should all or some portion of the Illegal Aliens be granted an Amnesty and be thereby allowed to change their status and acquire legal residence in the United States?



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I oppose all Amnesties for Illegals Aliens, in any form.




1 posted on 08/22/2002 7:04:53 AM PDT by Sabertooth
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To: Sabertooth
No amnesties for any illegals whatsoever.
2 posted on 08/22/2002 7:05:57 AM PDT by Black Agnes
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To: CheneyChick; vikingchick; Victoria Delsoul; WIMom; one_particular_harbour; kmiller1k; Snow Bunny; ..
((((((growl)))))



3 posted on 08/22/2002 7:06:20 AM PDT by Sabertooth
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To: Sabertooth
"Should all or some portion of the Illegal Aliens be granted an Amnesty and be thereby allowed to change their status and acquire legal residence in the United States?"

Not now, not ever. Profile, detain and deport.

4 posted on 08/22/2002 7:09:14 AM PDT by Bikers4Bush
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To: Sabertooth
Never, never, never!
5 posted on 08/22/2002 7:11:00 AM PDT by NorseWood
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To: Sabertooth
The last Amnesty encouraged an increased flow of illegals, any form of Amnesty at this time would have the same effect.

NO AMNESTY!

6 posted on 08/22/2002 7:12:46 AM PDT by c-b 1
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To: Sabertooth
Any amnesty is just a huge welcome sign for more illegal aliens to try to scam their way into this nation. Same for giving in-state tuition breaks to illegal aliens, such as in California. You make things nice and convenient for these law breakers and millions more will come.

We have more than enough lower income people banging out plenty of children (mostly due to immigration) and don't need anymore....Unless we want to make this nation into a Brazil.
7 posted on 08/22/2002 7:14:03 AM PDT by dennisw
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To: Sabertooth
Not no, but HELL NO.....
8 posted on 08/22/2002 7:14:26 AM PDT by cynicom
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To: Sabertooth
Not no, but HELL NO.....
9 posted on 08/22/2002 7:14:47 AM PDT by cynicom
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To: Sabertooth
"I oppose all Amnesties for Illegals Aliens, in any form."

I'm with you Saber.......

The real question is what will the gop do.

They've abandoned their base and face a very real threat to their control.

If they determine that the hispanic vote can shift the balance in big cities, this amnesty idea will become reality.

10 posted on 08/22/2002 7:15:19 AM PDT by WhiteGuy
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To: Sabertooth
Should all or some portion of the Illegal Aliens be granted an Amnesty and be thereby allowed to change their status and acquire legal residence in the United States?

I'm against. They should go back and go threw the legal immigration channels...regarless of country of origin. Cutting in line just doesn't sound right.

11 posted on 08/22/2002 7:18:42 AM PDT by NeoCaveman
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To: Sabertooth
I'm against any illegal immigration, but until our country gets serious about keeping illegals out (and they could get serious if they reallywanted to, - wouldn't even need to put the army on the border), what are we supposed to do?
12 posted on 08/22/2002 7:18:52 AM PDT by realpatriot71
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To: Sabertooth
I agree. Absotively, posalutely NO AMNESTY.
13 posted on 08/22/2002 7:20:04 AM PDT by Badray
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To: realpatriot71
But what's your answer to the question?



14 posted on 08/22/2002 7:20:19 AM PDT by Sabertooth
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To: Sabertooth
Every poll I have seen has said that Americans would like to see immigration levels reduced. Yet, our elected officials are falling all over each other to be nice to immigrant groups to get their vote.

While established Americans want a sane immigration policy, new immigrants and politicians want everyone to come.

Amnesty is a open door with a red carpet and a flashing neon sign saying "Welcome".

Americans are being played as saps.

I oppose any amnesty program.

If people come here illegally, they should know they will be held accountable.

I certainly don't want new citizens who have distain for the laws of my country.

15 posted on 08/22/2002 7:22:45 AM PDT by twas
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To: WhiteGuy; Sabertooth
No need whatsoever for amnesty.

Poll numbers indicate a shift to GOP in the Hispanic community, not to say that that is needed to oppose amnesty.

Amnesty, welfare, social programs, racial divisiveness are all RAT tactics, not needed in the GOP.

16 posted on 08/22/2002 7:24:29 AM PDT by BOBTHENAILER
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To: Sabertooth
Given every poll in the USofA is against it, I think FR vote totals, for and against will break along those same lines.

It's really an exercise in futility, because it becomes ever more apparent that only the ordinary American is expected to obey the laws of the land while D.C. plainly has "no controlling legal authority" over their actions.

We can vote in these polls until dooms day and they will be ignored unless and until, Americans make it a major hot button issue, and we have a limited amount of time to do that in.

Emails and faxes go ignored, phone calls may be somewhat better but I don't see it. Only one thing will make it an issue and that is a massive demonstration in D.C. Until then Free Trade will rule, a stupid idea in which we export nothing but jobs and import everything, especially third world masses both legal and illegal.

17 posted on 08/22/2002 7:24:57 AM PDT by MissAmericanPie
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To: Sabertooth
No there should not be another amnesty of any kind. If they are here illegally they are criminals and should be deported immediately. I do not take a soft stand on this issue.
18 posted on 08/22/2002 7:25:09 AM PDT by Chi-Town Lady
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To: Sabertooth
Being a Texan, I quess I have differing views on this subject. In our central Texas area, hospitals are going broke trying to cover costs that illegals cannot or will not pay. My school taxes are going thru the roof trying to pay for all children in Texas, legal or not, to have an education. I am very offended by some remarks on FR about Hispanics. Texas was mostly hispanic before it was a Republic, so many hispanics were Texans before my people were. I have hispanic grandchildren. But, I do not support giving illegals of any nationality legal status of any kind. All should go thru the proper channels to become a citizen of America. And I strictly support scaling way back on the number of immigrants allowed into America.
19 posted on 08/22/2002 7:26:07 AM PDT by maeng
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To: Sabertooth
My position: No amnesty -- a 5-year moratorium on imigration.

And you're hearing this from a latino.

20 posted on 08/22/2002 7:27:16 AM PDT by JohnHuang2
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Comment #21 Removed by Moderator

To: PhiKapMom; ohioWfan; Luis Gonzalez; Wphile; hchutch; Poohbah; Miss Marple; Howlin; PRND21; Bob J; ..
I cordially invite you to share your thoughts.



22 posted on 08/22/2002 7:28:35 AM PDT by Sabertooth
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To: Sabertooth
The DOJ is too busy going after file swappers to worry about a small problem like immigration.
23 posted on 08/22/2002 7:28:49 AM PDT by Sir Gawain
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To: Sabertooth
We should start by taking away all forms of welfare support for illegals (if not all citizens). In fact, if it weren't for the nursing-on-the-teat-of-the-socialist-cow syndrome, I could care less who and how many people immigrate here. For instance, if we didn't have all these balkanizing multiculturalist driving a stake between us with things like bilingual education, I wouldn't care whether they couild speak English. They'd learn quick enough, if their paycheck depended on it.

I will disrespectfully ignore anyone who tries to pin 911 on "open-border free traitors" such as myself...

24 posted on 08/22/2002 7:30:55 AM PDT by KayEyeDoubleDee
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To: Sabertooth
i support a swap program, we swap out lazy good for nothing americans on the tax dole for hard working illegals who help make our businesses run.
25 posted on 08/22/2002 7:31:05 AM PDT by robjna
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To: Sabertooth
NO AMNESTY.

Rather - get begin enforcement of the law, demand either people obey the law or be deported. No other way will stop th coddling of criminal illegals who now populate more than 25% of the prisons.

Next debate, consider internment for those who refuse to go and contiue to threaten us with treason or attack.

26 posted on 08/22/2002 7:31:32 AM PDT by flamefront
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To: Sabertooth
What would I do? Create a new brach of the military, specific to a border control/police mission. Build a BIG ass fence - think berlin type of ("wall") fence (barbed wire, big trenches, open spaces in which can easily be seen by either gaurd tower, etc.), and have every few hundred feet manned by a real human being.

What I've described is what I would do "in a nutshell" of course there are many details that I didn't go into and deatils to work out, but I think it's possible, VERY possible.

27 posted on 08/22/2002 7:32:13 AM PDT by realpatriot71
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To: Sabertooth
Sorry, I didn't sleep much . . .

Let me sum this up: "Amnessy?!?! We don nee no stinkin' Amnessy!!!"

28 posted on 08/22/2002 7:33:55 AM PDT by realpatriot71
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To: Sabertooth
I oppose

NO QUESTION ABOUT IT!

Politically Correctness jeopardizes the citizens of this nation. Illegal aliens are not citizens and pose a potential threat to this nation. Weed'em out and let them reapply after a thorough background check!!!!

29 posted on 08/22/2002 7:34:17 AM PDT by chadsworth
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To: Sabertooth
I think it is too easy and not at all interesting to say "I am against any and all forms of amnesty." Having been born in San Diego and having lived in Southern California for the first twenty years of my life, I have seen/heard about a lot to do with illegals from Mexico. This problem is obviously huge but I think a lot could be done to make things better for both our country and those who want to come to the U.S.

I have always believed that we must control our borders. It is both our duty and sovereign right. That being said, I think there is tremendous benefit to having workers who are Mexican citizens being allowed to come into this country to do those tasks we no longer want to do. Examples include farm labor, gardening, hotel and garment work, etc. A well-run guest worker program would be a win-win proposition. I would even be in favor of allowing a controlled number of those who work hard, pay taxes and keep out of trouble to apply for citizenship each year.

There are a myriad of reasons why this has not happened. Labor unions do not want cheap, imported labor, even if it is for jobs which none of their members will perform. Farmers and other businesses can easily exploit illegal workers with low wages, no benefits and poor conditions. We have either no ability or no will to truly contain our borders. Also, it is likely that there has been political pressure from Mexico to allow as many "peasants" to live here in order to take the heat off of a Mexican government that is unable/unwilling to take care of its own people. This was probably especially true during the Cold War when the U.S. government would have done anything to make sure a Cuban-style revolution did not take place in Mexico. And there are probably a hundred other reasons I have left out.

To answer your original question, I am against amnesty programs because it rewards the cheaters and encourages more illegal immigrants hoping to catch the next round of amnesty.

30 posted on 08/22/2002 7:39:13 AM PDT by Boss_Jim_Gettys
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To: Boss_Jim_Gettys
I think it is too easy and not at all interesting to say "I am against any and all forms of amnesty."

As a matter of macro interest, I agree. Hoewever, I was trying to keep my own thoughts at the top of the thread brief and on topic, and be as inviting as I could be to those who might have a different view.

In regard to your other comments, your thoughts and mine are fairly convergent. I've been in California 41 years. Thanks for posting.




31 posted on 08/22/2002 7:44:08 AM PDT by Sabertooth
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To: maeng
"Texas was mostly hispanic before it was a Republic, so
many hispanics were Texans before my people were."

Much of the West and Southwest was "Hispanic" at one time. It was conquered and owned by the Spaniards and we either took it,(conquest)or bought it from them. But, just as the Phillistines have no "right of return" to Israel; the Hispanics have no right of return to "MY" country!
32 posted on 08/22/2002 7:46:11 AM PDT by old school
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To: Sir Gawain; KayEyeDoubleDee; robjna
Sorry, I'm not clear on your answers to my question...

Do you support total, partial, or no Amnesty at all?

Thanks, I'm gonna try and track the results of this non-scientific poll.



33 posted on 08/22/2002 7:47:02 AM PDT by Sabertooth
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To: Sabertooth
No.
34 posted on 08/22/2002 7:48:02 AM PDT by gunshy
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To: Sabertooth
Amnesty leads to MORE balkanization too.


Spanish Is OK Outside Classroom, Official Says


To: Chi-Town Lady
The language in America is ENGLISH! Always has been.


This is almost too funny to respond to. Should I chalk up this ignorance of American history to a public school education?


4 posted on 8/22/02 7:12 AM Pacific by drjimmy [ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies | Report Abuse ]


http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/737483/posts?page=4#4

35 posted on 08/22/2002 7:49:17 AM PDT by bok
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To: Boss_Jim_Gettys; Sabertooth
What you and many others are proposing is a "bracero" type program we had in effect in this country for many years.
This program worked to everyone's benefit.
Illegals came into this country, worked for a specified period of time without welfare benefits, then went home to Mexico to enjoy the fruits of their labors.
This was a case of fixing something that wasn't broken.
36 posted on 08/22/2002 7:51:46 AM PDT by COB1
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To: Sabertooth
No, none, zero never.

Deport the illegals.

37 posted on 08/22/2002 7:52:11 AM PDT by Travis McGee
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To: Sabertooth
Hell no, they have to go!
38 posted on 08/22/2002 7:52:22 AM PDT by hgro
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To: Sabertooth
I'm with JohnHuang2 on this -- My position: No amnesty -- a 5-year moratorium on imigration.

I have a Mexican that rents from me and he asked me why we let so many illegals in. He came through the hard way..legal.

Since so many in the US do not want amnesty or such a high number of legal immigrants coming in each year, I would like to see a list of sponsors and legislation that entices illegals. Maybe we can help get them "retired". Does anybody have a list? If not, I'll try to make one.
39 posted on 08/22/2002 7:52:28 AM PDT by Travelgirl
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To: Sabertooth
Do you support total, partial, or no Amnesty at all?

Yes.

40 posted on 08/22/2002 7:54:16 AM PDT by Sir Gawain
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To: Sabertooth
Should all or some portion of

It really depends on the specific circumstances, doesn't it?

If some 'illegal aliens' can justify their presence here and if they would be useful participants in our society I think they deserve to be investigated for possible citizenship rather than arbitrarily deported.

For the rest....ship 'em out.

41 posted on 08/22/2002 7:54:27 AM PDT by JimVT
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To: Sabertooth
no amnesty under any circumstance or re-definition of words. Send them home, let them apply again. Let Native born Americans have first pick at low paying jobs, like teenagers who need to learn how to work!!
42 posted on 08/22/2002 7:54:38 AM PDT by RaceBannon
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To: Sabertooth
In short, I can't support amnesty given the current welfare system/mentality. However, given my feelings about welfare in general, the amnesty issue is really secondary.
43 posted on 08/22/2002 7:55:31 AM PDT by KayEyeDoubleDee
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To: Sabertooth
"Do you support total, partial, or no Amnesty at all?"

Let me summarize. No! None! Never!
44 posted on 08/22/2002 7:55:47 AM PDT by old school
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To: COB1; bok
Thanks for your thoughts. Can you be more specific about your answer to the question...

Should all or some portion of the Illegal Aliens be granted an Amnesty and be thereby allowed to change their status and acquire legal residence in the United States?

I think I know, but I don't want to misinterpret anyone. Thanks.



45 posted on 08/22/2002 7:55:58 AM PDT by Sabertooth
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To: Sabertooth
Has Washington ever given any "amnesty" to native-born Americans with IRS liens? Hordes of middle-class Americans have IRS liens. Hordes more are or have been victims of IRS snafus when they owed nothing. But did "their" government give them "amnesty?"

Illegal aliens put huge social costs on the U.S. - particularly in some locales. School overcrowding - and ever-higher school taxes - is high on the list. Overcrowded emergency rooms - accompanied by unpaid bills - is close behind. Uninsured driving is endemic.

Get the sticker!

46 posted on 08/22/2002 7:56:36 AM PDT by glc1173@aol.com
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To: Sabertooth
Your question is a slamdunk, since we have the luxury of hindsight.

Every problem which it was claimed the '86 amnesty would solve is still with us, and then some. In fact, illegal entry to the US shot up since and hasn't come down as more and more anticipate another such amnesty.

Reagan's deputy in charge of the '86 debacle (his name escapes me) is on record as opposing any new amnesty, whatever form it might take.

47 posted on 08/22/2002 7:57:03 AM PDT by skeeter
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To: Sabertooth
I oppose any kind of amnesty for illegal aliens. Ever.
48 posted on 08/22/2002 7:57:35 AM PDT by Nea Wood
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To: Sabertooth
I only have a minute before my massive workload calls, but I had to respond...

I say no. We in Califorina are taxed to death supporting illegals. What part of "ILLEGAL" don't libs understand? The United States of America is a great country--I wouldn't want to live any where else. If people from other countries want to move here to make the USA their home, please come and contribute to this great country, but do so legally--just like my father did many years ago.

49 posted on 08/22/2002 7:57:59 AM PDT by BornOnTheFourth
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To: Sabertooth
Global, indiscriminate amnesty? No, of course not. But what about the many illegals who have been here for years and have been hard working members in the lower echelons of our capitalist structure. I think there should be some way of helping them to assimilate legally, after thorough background checks, etc. I think many of these people could become valuable, hard working, right thinking, American conservatives, having laid hold of the American dream from the roots so to speak, and working themselves up from the bottom. This is still the great promise of America and we should not forget it.

Otherwise, we run a risk of abandoning them to the liberal nannies who want to scoop them up in their arms and coddle them, creating a whole new dependent class of voters that will ensure them a power base, which will surely lead to the destruction of this nation as we know it.

50 posted on 08/22/2002 7:58:50 AM PDT by rightwingreligiousfanatic
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