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Surveillance cameras will 'patrol' city
The State ^ | 8/22/02 | JEFF WILKINSON

Posted on 08/22/2002 11:52:27 AM PDT by PJeffQ

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1 posted on 08/22/2002 11:52:28 AM PDT by PJeffQ
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To: PJeffQ
They would observe just as you or I would if we were standing on a street corner," he said. "It's just like a news photographer taking a picture on a public street."

Till we get those IR upgrades next fall...then it's X-ray vision time! Woo Hoo!

2 posted on 08/22/2002 12:00:48 PM PDT by Pistias
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To: PJeffQ
This technology is a valuable tool for law enforcement. Like fire/security alarms, it will alert the police officers so they can catch more crooks.

Like a gun, this will become a valuable tool for police/law enforcement. Guns and technology will never arrest crooks, but they sure will help the police who do.

3 posted on 08/22/2002 12:12:37 PM PDT by joyful1
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To: PJeffQ
I'm generally opposed to increased survailence of citizens and public places, but since this IS a public place I think I would feel comfortable if the images were available to ANY citizen just as they are to the cops. Make them accessable via a web link so there is no difference tween the govt watching the citizens and the citizens seeing everything the govt sees.
4 posted on 08/22/2002 12:14:14 PM PDT by ibbryn
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To: stainlessbanner; stand watie; billbears
SCANA alert!
5 posted on 08/22/2002 12:14:21 PM PDT by Black Agnes
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To: PJeffQ
"As long as you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to fear." Grrr.

Sorry, but I'm just not that anxious to welcome 1984. People really need to ask themselves what, exactly, is their definition of a police state?

6 posted on 08/22/2002 12:32:37 PM PDT by Teacher317
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To: PJeffQ
"As long as you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to fear." Grrr.

Sorry, but I'm just not that anxious to welcome 1984. People really need to ask themselves what, exactly, is their definition of a police state? For me, one very prevalent feature is the desire to keep a constant watchful eye on the general population. The police are NOT there to prevent crime. The exist only to enforce the law and investigate crimes that have already happened. Charging them with the responsibility, the power, and the authority to do anything more is really opening the door for some horrendous abuses of power.

7 posted on 08/22/2002 12:36:09 PM PDT by Teacher317
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To: Admin Moderator
Hmph... I guess I posted rather while previewing, although I never left the "preview" window. Admin Moderator, feel free to delete #6.
8 posted on 08/22/2002 12:37:49 PM PDT by Teacher317
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To: Teacher317
9/11 or 1984? What would be worse?

Which one is more likely to happen if we adopt 21st century security systems? Another 9/11 or 1984?

Will adopting biometrics and survellience secuity guarantee 1984 will happen? No.

Will not adopting biometrics and survellience security guarantee another 9/11. Yes.

9 posted on 08/22/2002 12:43:33 PM PDT by joyful1
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To: joyful1
This technology is a valuable tool for law enforcement. Like fire/security alarms, it will alert the police officers so they can catch more crooks.

You would make a good little Nazi.

10 posted on 08/22/2002 1:07:58 PM PDT by unixfox
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To: joyful1
Wrong questions.

Will not adopting biometrics and survellience security prevent
another 9/11. No
.
11 posted on 08/22/2002 1:13:12 PM PDT by Doctor Stochastic
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Lining streets with cameras and not expecting an outbreak of tyranny is akin to lining streets with feces and not expecting an outbreak of disease.

It's very poor hygiene for the maintenance of liberty.

Oh, and I thought the story was public camersas were to be limited to catching red light runners? Oh my, maybe they lied?!

It's really sad what this country is coming to. It's getting to the point that I can barely recognize it.

12 posted on 08/22/2002 1:18:15 PM PDT by freeeee
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To: joyful1
This technology is a valuable tool for law enforcement. Like fire/security alarms, it will alert the police officers so they can catch more crooks.

Real cops with real guns probably won't respond any quicker to 911 calls, but you will be able to buy a copy of the video of you snapping off that double tap into the guy who trys to rob you.

13 posted on 08/22/2002 1:20:07 PM PDT by TC Rider
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To: joyful1
9/11 or 1984? What would be worse?

1984. Why, what were you thinking?

As tragic as 9/11 was, if I had to choose between one or the other, I'd prefer that 3000 people die rather than 300 million people living under a totalitarian government so oppressive that they might as well be dead. Have you ever actually read 1984? It goes a bit further than cameras in public places.

Which one is more likely to happen if we adopt 21st century security systems? Another 9/11 or 1984?

What makes you think they are mutually exclusive? I'd say "both".

Will adopting biometrics and survellience secuity guarantee 1984 will happen? No.

What makes you say that?

Will not adopting biometrics and survellience security guarantee another 9/11. Yes.

And how would these prevent a 9/11-like act of terrorism? What is it about biometrics and cameras that would prevent a terrorist from doing something like driving a van full of explosives into a building?
14 posted on 08/22/2002 1:20:37 PM PDT by mn12
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To: PJeffQ
"They would observe just as you or I would if we were standing on a street corner," he said. "It's just like a news photographer taking a picture on a public street."

It's also just like a Russian babushka or block captain spying on your every move. Sickening.

Americans, are we or aren't we better than the communist countries we suppose ourselves to be above? If so, PROVE IT and start acting like free people!!!

15 posted on 08/22/2002 1:23:56 PM PDT by freeeee
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To: joyful1
kinda like the security camera grabs of Atta in the quicky marts... 3 days later. Uh. Huh.
16 posted on 08/22/2002 1:25:51 PM PDT by aSkeptic
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To: freeeee
No Kidding!
17 posted on 08/22/2002 1:27:04 PM PDT by aSkeptic
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To: joyful1
9/11 or 1984? What would be worse?

I'll take 9/11 every 4 months than a 1984 style police state.

It is amazing that people do not understand the danger of the police state.

18 posted on 08/22/2002 2:01:51 PM PDT by Orion
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To: PJeffQ
"Once we assess the effectiveness of these cameras, we can begin putting them in other areas," he said.

Golly!! The agenda is right there, for all to see!


19 posted on 08/22/2002 2:18:37 PM PDT by Elsie
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To: Orion
I'll take 9/11 every 4 months than a 1984 style police state.

It's alREADY worse than this!!!


In 2001, terrorists killed ~3000 in NYC.

In 2001, abortionists killed ~98,000 in NYC.






You wanna prevent ANOTHER 911?

Ground all airplane flights in this country.

20 posted on 08/22/2002 2:22:48 PM PDT by Elsie
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To: Elsie
 an ordinance governing how the cameras are used, if needed.  (1)

City manager Leona Plaugh said those areas don't represent high-crime areas(2)

...they were effective in deterring crime or catching criminals(3)

"Once we assess the effectiveness of these cameras, we can begin putting them in other areas(4)

"But they are a minority. I don't see those arguments as valid(5)," Hiltner said

...and we need to treat that neighborhood with a higher standard (6)



Heil Hiltner!!!

1. "Them pesky people are STILL worried that this'll be misused.  I assure them: it won't"

2. Why not: why are they here, then?  (oh, see #3)

3. database image matching

4. Big Brother wants to be everywhere: to PROTECT you, of course.

5. Phooey on your right to privacy!

6. "...some are more equal than others......."  Animal Farm - George Orwell


21 posted on 08/22/2002 2:36:23 PM PDT by Elsie
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they need some cameras around USC.. University of Southern California
22 posted on 08/22/2002 2:41:40 PM PDT by KneelBeforeZod
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To: PJeffQ
The UK has invested millions in survelliance cameras for urban areas over the past few years.

One only need to observe the rapidly rising crime rate to evaluate how effective it has been.

Just one of the many web pages about the issue: http://tash.gn.apc.org/cctv.htm

23 posted on 08/22/2002 3:57:14 PM PDT by justlurking
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To: PJeffQ
But he said if they were effective in deterring crime or catching criminals, City Council might decide later to place more of them in other parts of the city.

"Once we assess the effectiveness of these cameras, we can begin putting them in other areas," he said.

Ummm...if they aren't effective they will be removed, right? Yeah, right. [roll eyes]

24 posted on 08/22/2002 4:07:24 PM PDT by hattend
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To: PJeffQ
"They would observe just as you or I would if we were standing on a street corner," he said. "It's just like a news photographer taking a picture on a public street."

Wonder what their attitude would be toward a citizens group, on public streets, recording the comings, goings, etc. of the city council and police departments?

25 posted on 08/22/2002 4:59:38 PM PDT by templar
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To: joyful1
Will not adopting biometrics and survellience security guarantee another 9/11. Yes.

How? Better photography of the planes crashing into the WTC? Personally, I thought the video coverage of the event was quite good enough.

26 posted on 08/22/2002 5:17:45 PM PDT by templar
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To: TC Rider
... but you will be able to buy a copy of the video of you snapping off that double tap into the guy who trys to rob you.

Out of curiosity, is open or concealed carry legal in the cities where these types of surveilance devices are being installed? Most of the places I've noticed these things going on seem to be really anti self defence, especially with guns.

More likely that double tap photo will be given to you free at your trials, one in the criminal trial and one in the civil suit by your attacker or his survivors.

27 posted on 08/22/2002 5:23:49 PM PDT by templar
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To: joyful1
You got it bass ackwards.
Adopting biometrics and survellience secuity will ensure a 1984 nightmare.
Adopting all the biometrics and survellience security in the world will not deter another 9/11 event.
28 posted on 08/22/2002 5:25:14 PM PDT by Wm Bach
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To: templar
More likely that double tap photo will be given to you free at your trials, one in the criminal trial and one in the civil suit by your attacker or his survivors.

Better judged by 12, than carried by 6.

29 posted on 08/22/2002 8:21:23 PM PDT by TC Rider
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To: PJeffQ
Learn what this kind of system's spy cameras look like (exclusive photos)!
30 posted on 08/22/2002 8:59:44 PM PDT by glc1173@aol.com
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To: Wm Bach
The arguments against biometric/survellience make as much nonsense as the arguments against gun ownership. Both are necessary tools for law enforcement and protection. We need the best protection available today. Polls show overwhelming support (demand) for this technolgy

Bob Barr was the biggest outspoken opponent of biometric/survellience in Congress. He lost big time. So will others who oppose it. Libetarians will say Barr lost because he is against drug abuse. I don't think so. You guys make good points, but will not win on this issue.

31 posted on 08/23/2002 5:53:47 AM PDT by joyful1
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To: templar
Wonder what their attitude would be toward a citizens group, on public streets, recording the comings, goings, etc. of the city council and police departments?

Easy! You're a stalker! ....and we have LAWS against that!

The Gov't CAN'T stalk: it merely collects information.

32 posted on 08/23/2002 6:03:32 AM PDT by Elsie
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To: Teacher317
"As long as you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to fear." Grrr. Sorry, but I'm just not that anxious to welcome 1984. People really need to

DITTO!...give the government an inch, they will take 800 miles!

33 posted on 08/23/2002 7:44:42 AM PDT by timestax
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To: joyful1
also it will let Big Brother watch YOU & your FAMILY! and SNOOP into LAWFUL, but un-appreciated activities of peaceful citizens!

free dixie,sw

34 posted on 08/23/2002 9:27:12 AM PDT by stand watie
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To: Black Agnes
!!!!!!

free the southland,sw

35 posted on 08/23/2002 9:27:51 AM PDT by stand watie
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To: joyful1
it will eventually cause BOTH 1984 & 9-11. given the left's wish to control everything, do you TRUST a bunch of un-elected bureaucrats with your LIBERTY?

free dixie NOW,sw

36 posted on 08/23/2002 9:29:46 AM PDT by stand watie
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To: Orion
WELL SAID!

free dixie NOW,sw

37 posted on 08/23/2002 9:31:22 AM PDT by stand watie
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To: PJeffQ; Pistias
Bet a couple can be swung toward a womens dorm or two.
38 posted on 08/23/2002 9:44:44 AM PDT by wattsmag2
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To: unixfox
Two words:
Paintball gun.
39 posted on 08/23/2002 9:47:35 AM PDT by humblegunner
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To: PJeffQ
Was the prosecutor murdered, or was he assassinated?
40 posted on 08/23/2002 9:53:43 AM PDT by FenianOfEire
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To: FenianOfEire
robbery/murder in a residential neighborhood between Five Points, where bars and restaurants are, and the campus of the University, where the National Advocacy Center is located.
41 posted on 08/23/2002 10:06:23 AM PDT by PJeffQ
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To: PJeffQ
It will take cops off their beat, and you will have a room full of cops geting fat, sitting in easy chairs eating Krispy Kreme doughnuts watching cute chicks walking by!!!
42 posted on 08/23/2002 10:10:32 AM PDT by timestax
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To: FenianOfEire
They were later found guilty... From http://www.rcsd.net/media/usattorney.htm:

Richland County Sheriff's Department

LEON L. LOTT, JR.

Sheriff

NEWS ADVISORY

AUGUST 22, 2001 Contact: Lt. Joseph Pellicci

(Work) 691-9025

(Pager) 765-6205

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

FOUR TEENAGERS ARRESTED IN SHOOTING DEATH OF FEDERAL PROSECUTOR

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Richland County Sheriff's Department, the City of Columbia Police Department, and the FBI have announced that four arrests have been made in the August 20th shooting death of Michael Messer. Messer, 49, of Morton Grove, Illinois, was shot and killed at approximately 9:55 p.m. Monday evening in the 800 block of Laurens Street during an attempted robbery by four teenagers.

Messer and Richard Ferguson of Naperville, Illinois were in Columbia attending a federal training seminar at the National Advocacy Center on the University of South Carolina Campus. The two assistant federal prosecutors were walking back to the Advocacy Center from Five Points when the incident occurred. Ferguson was also shot during the attempted robbery, but managed to escape, receiving a gunshot to his right arm.

The four suspects arrested in Messer's murder are:

* Abram Douglas Braveboy, dob of 12/7/82, 2113 Tammy Drive, Columbia

* Cichey Levar Mayo, dob of 2/7/84, 8308 Old Percival Rd, Columbia

* Bryan Murray, dob of 10/6/84, 7920 Spring Flower Rd., Columbia

* Willie James Murphy, Jr., dob of 5/23/85, 125 Leeside Circle, Columbia

Braveboy was arrested August 21st at the Richland County Sheriff's Department. Mayo, Murray, and Murphy were arrested at their respective homes by authorities this morning. Each of the four suspects is facing the following charges:

-murder

-assault and battery with intent to kill

-conspiracy to commit armed robbery (multiple counts)

-armed robbery (multiple counts)

-attempted armed robbery (multiple counts)

The charges stem from five separate incidents involving the suspects, beginning with a random shooting August 17th at the Sonic restaurant on Two Notch Road, and ending with numerous armed robberies on the evening of August 20th. An older model gray Volvo was a common link in many of the crimes.

Richland County Sheriff's investigators broke the case with the arrest of Braveboy. Tuesday morning, August 21st, Braveboy was driving a gray Volvo on Two Notch Road when his vehicle was struck by Sheriff Lott's car during the pursuit of the Bank Of America robbery suspect.

Braveboy drove off before deputies arrived, but Tuesday afternoon, Braveboy's mother came to the Sheriff's Department to report that her son was involved in an accident with a police officer. When investigators discovered the car in question was an older model gray Volvo, they received consent to search the vehicle and discovered several items connected to the murder and robberies.

"We were able to solve this case through, what I call, divine intervention," Richland County Sheriff Leon Lott said. "The chances of me running into the murder suspect during the pursuit of another suspect are a million to one. But there is no question that through the diligent efforts of my department, the City of Columbia, the FBI, and the U.S. Attorney's Office, these individuals would eventually have been arrested. We're just thankful the arrests were made before any more innocent people were harmed."

43 posted on 08/23/2002 10:10:37 AM PDT by PJeffQ
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To: stand watie
bump
44 posted on 08/23/2002 10:10:55 AM PDT by timestax
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To: joyful1
We're from the government, and we're here to help.

he he
45 posted on 08/23/2002 10:12:40 AM PDT by Constantine XIII
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To: Elsie
Columbia City Hall was broken into by a bum a few weeks ago who was fired from the sanitation dept for burglary on the job... it came out that there was no alarm in place at the time...

the police chief has reportedly said he wants to be the first PD in American without firearms... they had six shot revolvers until 3 yrs ago and then got Sig Sauers...
46 posted on 08/23/2002 10:14:39 AM PDT by PJeffQ
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To: timestax
!!!!
47 posted on 08/23/2002 10:14:47 AM PDT by stand watie
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To: FenianOfEire
http://www.dailyillini.com/aug01/aug27/news/stories/campus01.shtml
48 posted on 08/23/2002 10:15:04 AM PDT by PJeffQ
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To: PJeffQ
Ashcroft speech in Columbia mentioning Messer's murder
49 posted on 08/23/2002 10:18:45 AM PDT by PJeffQ
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To: joyful1
9/11 or 1984? What would be worse?

3000 people were murdered on 9/11.

Over 200,000,000 people were murdered by police states.

You do the math.

50 posted on 08/23/2002 10:44:35 AM PDT by schmelvin
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