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Burton's panel finds links to foreigners in Oklahoma blast (MIDDLE EASTERNERS IN OKC BOMBING)

Posted on 08/24/2002 6:47:39 AM PDT by aristeides

Edited on 05/07/2004 6:26:32 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

The Government Reform Committee, chaired by Rep. Dan Burton of Indiana, was back sniffing around Oklahoma City last week looking for reasons to believe that Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols had help.

They found plenty. Committee lawyer Marc Chretien interviewed at least six people who claimed to have seen McVeigh keeping company with foreign-looking men in the days, even minutes, before the bombing on April 19, 1995.

(Excerpt) Read more at ...

TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; US: Oklahoma
KEYWORDS: fredthompson; iraq; jaynadavis; johnson; mcveigh; middleeast; okcbombing; schippers
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To: honway
Is that the same as the Ministry of Truth?

One and the same; "truth" to them being a relative term anyway.


61 posted on 08/25/2002 8:38:46 AM PDT by ForGod'sSake
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To: aristeides
Sunday bump
62 posted on 08/25/2002 10:06:11 AM PDT by VOA
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To: aristeides
I've seen the same thing....

If it's true, then the problems we have here are far worse than we know.....

I'm going to keep asking questions

63 posted on 08/25/2002 10:22:14 AM PDT by WhiteGuy
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To: ForGod'sSake
One and the same; "truth" to them being a relative term anyway.

I just saw Dr.Hatfill's press conference. It appears the "Ministry of Truth" and the "Ministry of Justice" have a great deal in common.

64 posted on 08/25/2002 11:04:03 AM PDT by honway
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To: WhiteGuy
but I don't have thread starting skills...the
scream is Hillary,,,,,,,,meaning she damn sure
is running in 04 BECAUSE of this thread and 20 more coming,like it...meaning,,,if Hillary cannot get
the JUSTICE DEPT in her hands ,her's and Bill's
secrets will see the light of day....All the way
back to Arkansas and Foster and you name it. Known
dirt of the treasonist bastards will be worth gold
.....and that is just as good as cash.

What was the tell tale clue the media was in
on the coup to steal the 2000 elections ?
( there is one too....a smoking gun)
65 posted on 08/25/2002 11:42:54 AM PDT by cactusSharp
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66 posted on 08/25/2002 1:30:47 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: honway
It appears the "Ministry of Truth" and the "Ministry of Justice" have a great deal in common.

I missed the press conference. I don't know what to make of the Hatfil business. For the time being , I'm willing to give the DOJ the benefit of the doubt. IMO, John Ashcroft is a stand up guy, but he's having to work in a cesspool that has 8 years of leftover stench and entrenched bureaucracy. Gotta be tough.

Some of the requests coming out of the DOJ seem to go too far, but as in most endeavors, I think they generally ask for more than they expect to get. The art of negotiation?


67 posted on 08/25/2002 7:40:35 PM PDT by ForGod'sSake
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To: cactusSharp
I can hear you loud and clear all the way to Texas(BTW, where are you???). The ex1stBeeitch will do everything within her power to be "drafted" for the nomination. I don't think she will openly campaign for the nomination because she will not tolerate losing. If she doesn't run, she can't lose; but being "drafted" is something else again. I see Algore suffering a freak "accident" between now and '04...

What was the tell tale clue the media was in on the coup to steal the 2000 elections ? ( there is one too....a smoking gun)

Provocative question. Is this one of those "can't see the forest for the trees" type deals? I'll need to go back through the memory banks(that BTW don't function as well as they used to) for some clues...


68 posted on 08/25/2002 8:01:06 PM PDT by ForGod'sSake
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To: ForGod'sSake
first cable talking heads
talk faster when a computer"hard break"
commercial is coming....the computer goes to
break no matter what......key word COMPUTER

now enter said...oops we
called the election too soon ,we forgot PENSACOLA
is in a different time zone.......well the COMPUTER
did not.......nothing on the planet is more
hard wired that network news to a clock
69 posted on 08/25/2002 8:20:19 PM PDT by cactusSharp
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To: TXnMA; aristeides
I've posted this on other threads, but here it is again for those who may not have seen it earlier.

When Timothy McVeigh was given the chance to write an essay from prison, he chose to write about the unfairness of U.S. policy toward Iraq. I've included the text of McVeigh's essay below. Look how he starts the whole thing. Why is this what he wrote about? He didn't expound on Waco, or the income tax, or 2nd amendment rights, or any of the sorts of things one would expect a "right-wing militia-type" to write about. He wrote instead about Iraq, biological weapons, etc. Why?

Here is McVeigh's essay, written in March, 1998, and published in Media Bypass magazine, in June, 1998. I'd really like to know why this is the one thing he felt compelled to write about from his prison cell.


The administration has said that Iraq has no right to stockpile chemical or biological weapons ("weapons of mass destruction") - mainly because they have used them in the past. Well, if that's the standard by which these matters are decided, then the U.S. is the nation that set the precedent. The U.S. has stockpiled these same weapons (and more) for over 40 years. The U.S. claims that this was done for deterrent purposes during its "Cold War" with the Soviet Union. Why, then, is it invalid for Iraq to claim the same reason (deterrence) - with respect to Iraq's (real) war with, and the continued threat of, its neighbor Iran?

The administration claims that Iraq has used these weapons in the past. We've all seen the pictures that show a Kurdish woman and child frozen in death from the use of chemical weapons. But, have you ever seen these photos juxtaposed next to pictures from Hiroshima or Nagasaki? I suggest that one study the histories of World War I, World War II and other "regional conflicts" that the U.S. has been involved in to familiarize themselves with the use of "weapons of mass destruction." Remember Dresden? How about Hanoi? Tripoli? Baghdad? What about the big ones - Hiroshima and Nagasaki? (At these two locations, the U.S. killed at least 150,000 non-combatants - mostly women and children - in the blink of an eye. Thousands more took hours, days, weeks, or months to die.)

If Saddam is such a demon, and people are calling for war crimes charges against him and his nation, whey do we not hear the same cry for blood directed at those responsible for even greater amounts of "mass destruction" - like those responsible and involved in dropping bombs on the cities mentioned above? The truth is, the U.S. has set the standard when it comes to the stockpiling and use of weapons of mass destruction. Hypocrisy when it comes to the death of children?

In Oklahoma City, it was family convenience that explained the presence of a day-care center placed between street level and the law enforcement agencies which occupied the upper floors of the building. Yet when discussion shifts to Iraq, any day-care center in a government building instantly becomes "a shield." Think about that. (Actually, there is a difference here. The administration has admitted to knowledge of the presence of children in or near Iraqi government buildings, yet they still proceed with their plans to bomb - saying that they cannot be held responsible if children die. There is no such proof, however, that knowledge of the presence of children existed in relation to the Oklahoma City bombing.)

When considering morality and "mens rea" (criminal intent) in light of these facts, I ask: Who are the true barbarians? Yet another example of this nation's blatant hypocrisy is revealed by the polls which suggest that this nation is greatly in favor of bombing Iraq. In this instance, the people of the nation approve of bombing government employees because they are "guilty by association" - they are Iraqi government employees. In regard to the bombing in Oklahoma City, however, such logic is condemned. What motivates these seemingly contradictory positions? Do people think that government workers in Iraq are any less human than those in Oklahoma City? Do they think that Iraqis don't have families who will grieve and mourn the loss of their loved ones? In this context, do people come to believe that the killing of foreigners is somehow different than the killing of Americans?

I recently read of an arrest in New York City where possession of a mere pipe bomb was charged as possession of a "weapon of mass destruction." If a two-pound pipe bomb is a "weapon of mass destruction," then what do people think that a 2,000-pound steel-encased bomb is? I find it ironic, to say the least, that one of the aircraft that could be used to drop such a bomb on Iraq is dubbed "The Spirit of Oklahoma." This leads me to a final, and unspoken, moral hypocrisy regarding the use of weapons of mass destruction. When a U.S. plane or cruise missile is used to bring destruction to a foreign people, this nation rewards the bombers with applause and praise. What a convenient way to absolve these killers of any responsibility for the destruction they leave in their wake. Unfortunately, the morality of killing is not so superficial. The truth is, the use of a truck, a plane, or a missile for the delivery of a weapon of mass destruction does not alter the nature of the act itself. These are weapons of mass destruction - and the method of delivery matters little to those on the receiving end of such weapons.

Whether you wish to admit it or not, when you approve, morally, of the bombing of foreign targets by the U.S. military, you are approving of acts morally equivalent to the bombing in Oklahoma City. The only difference is that this nation is not going to see any foreign casualties appear on the cover of Newsweek magazine. It seems ironic and hypocritical that an act as viciously condemned in Oklahoma City is now a "justified" response to a problem in a foreign land. Then again, the history of United States policy over the last century, when examined fully, tends to exemplify hypocrisy.

When considering the used of weapons of mass destruction against Iraq as a means to and end, it would be wise to reflect on the words of the late U.S. Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis. His words are as true in the context of Olmstead as they are when they stand alone: "Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or ill, it teaches the whole people by its example."

Sincerely, Timothy J. McVeigh

70 posted on 08/25/2002 8:20:53 PM PDT by Mitchell
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To: cactusSharp
I may be a little dense, but if all you're saying is they actually KNEW the Fla panhandle hadn't closed their polls yet because they actually KNEW what time it was...THIS is the smoking gun? If that's the case, most everyone watching that night suspected they were lying. You're offering this as proof? Did I miss something????????


71 posted on 08/25/2002 8:37:12 PM PDT by ForGod'sSake
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To: caddie
Is it just a marriage of convenience, and did McVeigh go along just to learn the technical aspects from the towelheads, or, is there some deeper reason for collaboration?

Post #70 above might be of interest.

72 posted on 08/25/2002 9:22:07 PM PDT by Mitchell
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To: ForGod'sSake
for god's sakes man,re-read even what you just wrote
any FOX special could knock the viewers socks off
with a graphic of that night focusing on the panhandle only reporter/network/anchor ever could look you or
God in the eye and be credible......that story run,
would be legend
73 posted on 08/25/2002 11:20:18 PM PDT by cactusSharp
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To: Mitchell
Thanks for the post. I had not seen this essay by McVeigh, and now, I see why, among other reasons, the Government wanted him dead quickly, as opposed to killing ten years writing essays on death row.
74 posted on 08/26/2002 7:36:33 AM PDT by caddie
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To: cactusSharp reporter/network/anchor ever could look you or God in the eye and be credible......

Well gee cS, they're not credible now; haven't been for decades and furthermore, they don't give a $hit. Fully half the people in this nation realize that, and the other half probably suspects it, but could care less because the media is toting their water. The media is full of utopian socialists that believe Marx was a great thinker. They are bringing the unwashed around to their way of thinking Gramsciian style. A little poison at a time.

Anyway cS, the "revelation" of proof still evades my simple mind. One of us is behind the power curve on this one ; )


75 posted on 08/26/2002 9:40:27 AM PDT by ForGod'sSake
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