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Burton's panel finds links to foreigners in Oklahoma blast (MIDDLE EASTERNERS IN OKC BOMBING)
INDIANAPOLIS STAR ^ | AUGUST 24, 2002 | JAMES PATTERSON

Posted on 08/24/2002 6:47:39 AM PDT by aristeides

Edited on 05/07/2004 6:26:32 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

The Government Reform Committee, chaired by Rep. Dan Burton of Indiana, was back sniffing around Oklahoma City last week looking for reasons to believe that Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols had help.

They found plenty. Committee lawyer Marc Chretien interviewed at least six people who claimed to have seen McVeigh keeping company with foreign-looking men in the days, even minutes, before the bombing on April 19, 1995.


(Excerpt) Read more at indystar.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; US: Oklahoma
KEYWORDS: fredthompson; iraq; jaynadavis; johnson; mcveigh; middleeast; okcbombing; schippers
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To: aristeides
Bump
51 posted on 08/24/2002 2:03:48 PM PDT by Dixielander
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To: aristeides; OKCSubmariner
I would venture to say that OKCSubmariner and his associates can share in the recognition for keeping this issue alive.
52 posted on 08/24/2002 2:57:46 PM PDT by JudyB1938
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To: JudyB1938
Thanks for your kind words.
53 posted on 08/24/2002 4:57:37 PM PDT by OKCSubmariner
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To: aristeides; varon
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/726050/posts?q=1&&page=101

link

For anyone interested in information on the Iraqi refugees, including Iraqi soldiers resettled in the U.S. at taxpayer's expense, please see the link above.

Specifically. replies 66,68,70,72,75,82,84,92,94,95

54 posted on 08/24/2002 11:01:19 PM PDT by honway
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To: aristeides
http://www.oneworld.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi?root=129&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Erefugees%2Eorg

Link

Iraqi Refugees In the aftermath of the Gulf War, 37,768 Iraqi refugees fled to Saudi Arabia and were housed in two camps, Rafha, for families, and Artewiyah, for single men.

The original group of refugees included roughly 10,000 Shi'ite rebel fighters who rose in rebellion against Saddam Hussein and another 4,000 or so former soldiers who defected, deserted, or were captured during Operation Desert Storm, and who refused to repatriate at the end of the war based on a fear of persecution if returned

By the end of 1996, 19,797 refugees had been resettled in third countries. The United States had resettled about half of the total, admitting 10,046 between June 1991 and the end of 1996

55 posted on 08/24/2002 11:06:46 PM PDT by honway
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To: aristeides
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/588510/posts

Iraqi Military Officers in OKC and Lincoln,NE

"As made known to the CIA, were the following, among other details: That George Herbert Walker Bush, as President, at the close of the Persian Gulf War, 1991, arranged to bring into the U.S. some four thousand Iraqi military officers, some from intelligence units, and their families. Some 550 of these officers became residents in Lincoln, Nebraska, AND TWO THOUSAND OF THEM took up residence in Oklahoma City. In a watered down story, CBS' "60 Minutes" Program did a segment once on this about Lincoln, Nebraska but said NOTHING about the Iraqi military officers in Oklahoma City.

The financial and other provisions for them and their families were arranged by the Elder Bush, and then quietly continued by Bill Clinton as President, and perpetuated by George W. Bush as White House "resident" and "occupant". The arrangements included financial subsidies, housing, and employment for the Iraqi officers.

56 posted on 08/24/2002 11:09:44 PM PDT by honway
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To: ForGod'sSake
The Ministry of Information

Is that the same as the Ministry of Truth?

57 posted on 08/24/2002 11:13:59 PM PDT by honway
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To: aristeides
It is true. I know two of them. They are Chaldeans not Muslim but who knows. Their entire families came with them.
58 posted on 08/25/2002 7:41:25 AM PDT by willyone
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To: TomGuy
[I thought at the time that it seemed strange the way they shifted their reporting so quickly.

That's like the live realtime coverage of Ron Brown's demise.

First it was CNN's "airplane down in the ocean, military spotters there, debris in the water, the worst storm in 25 years" by a noticably unsettled talking head.

There was great deal of specificity to the initial reports, which mutated to "hit a mountain" after about 60 minutes.

They did keep the "worst storm in 25 years" story, which of course has been proven to be patently untrue.

59 posted on 08/25/2002 7:54:42 AM PDT by angkor
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To: aristeides
If OKC turns out to be the easiest-to-prove casus belli against Iraq, this may get public airing after all.

I don't see any way they could do it after Ashcroft publically buried it. He was complicit in the coverup, and he didn't make that decision on his own. The die was cast then. Nothing of any significance will come out of Burton's committee.

60 posted on 08/25/2002 7:56:03 AM PDT by Lion's Cub
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To: honway
Is that the same as the Ministry of Truth?

One and the same; "truth" to them being a relative term anyway.

FGS

61 posted on 08/25/2002 8:38:46 AM PDT by ForGod'sSake
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To: aristeides
Sunday bump
62 posted on 08/25/2002 10:06:11 AM PDT by VOA
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To: aristeides
I've seen the same thing....

If it's true, then the problems we have here are far worse than we know.....

I'm going to keep asking questions

63 posted on 08/25/2002 10:22:14 AM PDT by WhiteGuy
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To: ForGod'sSake
One and the same; "truth" to them being a relative term anyway.

I just saw Dr.Hatfill's press conference. It appears the "Ministry of Truth" and the "Ministry of Justice" have a great deal in common.

64 posted on 08/25/2002 11:04:03 AM PDT by honway
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To: WhiteGuy
then start here...I HAVE SCREAMED THIS IN POSTS
but I don't have thread starting skills...the
scream is Hillary,,,,,,,,meaning she damn sure
is running in 04 BECAUSE of this thread and 20 more coming,like it...meaning,,,if Hillary cannot get
the JUSTICE DEPT in her hands ,her's and Bill's
secrets will see the light of day....All the way
back to Arkansas and Foster and you name it. Known
dirt of the treasonist bastards will be worth gold
.....and that is just as good as cash.

What was the tell tale clue the media was in
on the coup to steal the 2000 elections ?
( there is one too....a smoking gun)
65 posted on 08/25/2002 11:42:54 AM PDT by cactusSharp
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bttt
66 posted on 08/25/2002 1:30:47 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: honway
It appears the "Ministry of Truth" and the "Ministry of Justice" have a great deal in common.

I missed the press conference. I don't know what to make of the Hatfil business. For the time being , I'm willing to give the DOJ the benefit of the doubt. IMO, John Ashcroft is a stand up guy, but he's having to work in a cesspool that has 8 years of leftover stench and entrenched bureaucracy. Gotta be tough.

Some of the requests coming out of the DOJ seem to go too far, but as in most endeavors, I think they generally ask for more than they expect to get. The art of negotiation?

FGS

67 posted on 08/25/2002 7:40:35 PM PDT by ForGod'sSake
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To: cactusSharp
I can hear you loud and clear all the way to Texas(BTW, where are you???). The ex1stBeeitch will do everything within her power to be "drafted" for the nomination. I don't think she will openly campaign for the nomination because she will not tolerate losing. If she doesn't run, she can't lose; but being "drafted" is something else again. I see Algore suffering a freak "accident" between now and '04...

What was the tell tale clue the media was in on the coup to steal the 2000 elections ? ( there is one too....a smoking gun)

Provocative question. Is this one of those "can't see the forest for the trees" type deals? I'll need to go back through the memory banks(that BTW don't function as well as they used to) for some clues...

FGS

68 posted on 08/25/2002 8:01:06 PM PDT by ForGod'sSake
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To: ForGod'sSake
first clue...watch cable talking heads
talk faster when a computer"hard break"
commercial is coming....the computer goes to
break no matter what......key word COMPUTER

now enter Pensacola.....media said...oops we
called the election too soon ,we forgot PENSACOLA
is in a different time zone.......well the COMPUTER
did not.......nothing on the planet is more
hard wired that network news to a clock
69 posted on 08/25/2002 8:20:19 PM PDT by cactusSharp
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To: TXnMA; aristeides
I've posted this on other threads, but here it is again for those who may not have seen it earlier.

When Timothy McVeigh was given the chance to write an essay from prison, he chose to write about the unfairness of U.S. policy toward Iraq. I've included the text of McVeigh's essay below. Look how he starts the whole thing. Why is this what he wrote about? He didn't expound on Waco, or the income tax, or 2nd amendment rights, or any of the sorts of things one would expect a "right-wing militia-type" to write about. He wrote instead about Iraq, biological weapons, etc. Why?

Here is McVeigh's essay, written in March, 1998, and published in Media Bypass magazine, in June, 1998. I'd really like to know why this is the one thing he felt compelled to write about from his prison cell.

ESSAY BY TIMOTHY MCVEIGH

The administration has said that Iraq has no right to stockpile chemical or biological weapons ("weapons of mass destruction") - mainly because they have used them in the past. Well, if that's the standard by which these matters are decided, then the U.S. is the nation that set the precedent. The U.S. has stockpiled these same weapons (and more) for over 40 years. The U.S. claims that this was done for deterrent purposes during its "Cold War" with the Soviet Union. Why, then, is it invalid for Iraq to claim the same reason (deterrence) - with respect to Iraq's (real) war with, and the continued threat of, its neighbor Iran?

The administration claims that Iraq has used these weapons in the past. We've all seen the pictures that show a Kurdish woman and child frozen in death from the use of chemical weapons. But, have you ever seen these photos juxtaposed next to pictures from Hiroshima or Nagasaki? I suggest that one study the histories of World War I, World War II and other "regional conflicts" that the U.S. has been involved in to familiarize themselves with the use of "weapons of mass destruction." Remember Dresden? How about Hanoi? Tripoli? Baghdad? What about the big ones - Hiroshima and Nagasaki? (At these two locations, the U.S. killed at least 150,000 non-combatants - mostly women and children - in the blink of an eye. Thousands more took hours, days, weeks, or months to die.)

If Saddam is such a demon, and people are calling for war crimes charges against him and his nation, whey do we not hear the same cry for blood directed at those responsible for even greater amounts of "mass destruction" - like those responsible and involved in dropping bombs on the cities mentioned above? The truth is, the U.S. has set the standard when it comes to the stockpiling and use of weapons of mass destruction. Hypocrisy when it comes to the death of children?

In Oklahoma City, it was family convenience that explained the presence of a day-care center placed between street level and the law enforcement agencies which occupied the upper floors of the building. Yet when discussion shifts to Iraq, any day-care center in a government building instantly becomes "a shield." Think about that. (Actually, there is a difference here. The administration has admitted to knowledge of the presence of children in or near Iraqi government buildings, yet they still proceed with their plans to bomb - saying that they cannot be held responsible if children die. There is no such proof, however, that knowledge of the presence of children existed in relation to the Oklahoma City bombing.)

When considering morality and "mens rea" (criminal intent) in light of these facts, I ask: Who are the true barbarians? Yet another example of this nation's blatant hypocrisy is revealed by the polls which suggest that this nation is greatly in favor of bombing Iraq. In this instance, the people of the nation approve of bombing government employees because they are "guilty by association" - they are Iraqi government employees. In regard to the bombing in Oklahoma City, however, such logic is condemned. What motivates these seemingly contradictory positions? Do people think that government workers in Iraq are any less human than those in Oklahoma City? Do they think that Iraqis don't have families who will grieve and mourn the loss of their loved ones? In this context, do people come to believe that the killing of foreigners is somehow different than the killing of Americans?

I recently read of an arrest in New York City where possession of a mere pipe bomb was charged as possession of a "weapon of mass destruction." If a two-pound pipe bomb is a "weapon of mass destruction," then what do people think that a 2,000-pound steel-encased bomb is? I find it ironic, to say the least, that one of the aircraft that could be used to drop such a bomb on Iraq is dubbed "The Spirit of Oklahoma." This leads me to a final, and unspoken, moral hypocrisy regarding the use of weapons of mass destruction. When a U.S. plane or cruise missile is used to bring destruction to a foreign people, this nation rewards the bombers with applause and praise. What a convenient way to absolve these killers of any responsibility for the destruction they leave in their wake. Unfortunately, the morality of killing is not so superficial. The truth is, the use of a truck, a plane, or a missile for the delivery of a weapon of mass destruction does not alter the nature of the act itself. These are weapons of mass destruction - and the method of delivery matters little to those on the receiving end of such weapons.

Whether you wish to admit it or not, when you approve, morally, of the bombing of foreign targets by the U.S. military, you are approving of acts morally equivalent to the bombing in Oklahoma City. The only difference is that this nation is not going to see any foreign casualties appear on the cover of Newsweek magazine. It seems ironic and hypocritical that an act as viciously condemned in Oklahoma City is now a "justified" response to a problem in a foreign land. Then again, the history of United States policy over the last century, when examined fully, tends to exemplify hypocrisy.

When considering the used of weapons of mass destruction against Iraq as a means to and end, it would be wise to reflect on the words of the late U.S. Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis. His words are as true in the context of Olmstead as they are when they stand alone: "Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or ill, it teaches the whole people by its example."

Sincerely, Timothy J. McVeigh

70 posted on 08/25/2002 8:20:53 PM PDT by Mitchell
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To: cactusSharp
I may be a little dense, but if all you're saying is they actually KNEW the Fla panhandle hadn't closed their polls yet because they actually KNEW what time it was...THIS is the smoking gun? If that's the case, most everyone watching that night suspected they were lying. You're offering this as proof? Did I miss something????????

FGS

71 posted on 08/25/2002 8:37:12 PM PDT by ForGod'sSake
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To: caddie
Is it just a marriage of convenience, and did McVeigh go along just to learn the technical aspects from the towelheads, or, is there some deeper reason for collaboration?

Post #70 above might be of interest.

72 posted on 08/25/2002 9:22:07 PM PDT by Mitchell
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To: ForGod'sSake
for god's sakes man,re-read even what you just wrote
any FOX special could knock the viewers socks off
with a graphic of that night focusing on the panhandle only
...no reporter/network/anchor ever could look you or
God in the eye and be credible......that story run,
would be legend
73 posted on 08/25/2002 11:20:18 PM PDT by cactusSharp
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To: Mitchell
Thanks for the post. I had not seen this essay by McVeigh, and now, I see why, among other reasons, the Government wanted him dead quickly, as opposed to killing ten years writing essays on death row.
74 posted on 08/26/2002 7:36:33 AM PDT by caddie
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To: cactusSharp
...no reporter/network/anchor ever could look you or God in the eye and be credible......

Well gee cS, they're not credible now; haven't been for decades and furthermore, they don't give a $hit. Fully half the people in this nation realize that, and the other half probably suspects it, but could care less because the media is toting their water. The media is full of utopian socialists that believe Marx was a great thinker. They are bringing the unwashed around to their way of thinking Gramsciian style. A little poison at a time.

Anyway cS, the "revelation" of proof still evades my simple mind. One of us is behind the power curve on this one ; )

FGS

75 posted on 08/26/2002 9:40:27 AM PDT by ForGod'sSake
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