Church's Growing (Gay) Flock Changes Heart of Texas

The Washington Post ^ | Aug. 25, 2002 | Fethiye

[I_Love_My_Husband]

Feth...if the homo agenda isn't all you come here for, what else are you into here at freep? I know there's some gay conservatives out there and there appears to be more every day...and I'm in agreement with their views.

But don't ask conservatives to *approve* of your lifestyle. It's not going to happen.

Ever.

You want to be gay, fine, but stop shouting from the rooftops to US about it. And no, we are never going to legitimize gay marriage in this country. Maybe in a few misguided states, however, that will be rescinded.

[stands2reason]

You cannot deny that many gay folks died on 9/11 (some of them heroically, it seems).

You wouldn't be referring to Father Michal Judge, God rest his soul?

[I_Love_My_Husband]

I predict that Vermont will be rescinded.

[Torie]

What this neighborhood I thought had was an excessively unhealthy interest in other folks' sex lives. It now seems that it also has an excessively unhealthy interest in other folks' spiritual lives. Just why one would be upset about gays seeking a spiritual experience, indeed one with a Christian tradition, quite escapes me. This is the kind of thing that causes many to shun conservatives, and run screaming to the exits, who otherwise would not real reason to do so. Let these folks be, and leave them in peace. They have a need to seek God, and should be allowed to do so without spitballs being thrown at them.

[I_Love_My_Husband]

Torie, you're pro-immigration and pro-gay. Just explain how you're a conservative to this interested person please.

[Torie]

I may made about 10,000 posts to this forum. I stand by them. I don't need to explain myself, certainly not to you. Folks here are very familiar with my point of view, which has been consistent from day one.

[philman_36]

I don't think Fethiye is a woman philman.
Well, Fethiye, what's the sticky with the wicket?
Inquiring minds and all...you know how it is.

[philman_36]

Veddy enn-terestinck!
Indeed, indeed. >>>pulling a "Steven"<<<

[Kevin Curry]

What this neighborhood I thought had was an excessively unhealthy interest in other folks' sex lives.

The gay rights movement has taken this gross perversion out the bedroom (and bathhouse, and public toilets) and foisted it on the rest of us in the public square. Pro-gays parade, dance, mince, and push for highly public laws and special rights, and when normal America takes notice (how could it not?) you accuse normal America of having "an excessively unhealthy interest on other foks' sex lives."

If a colony of army ants was relased into your front room, would you be said to have an "excessivly unhealthy interest" in fumigation?

It now seems that it also has an excessively unhealthy interest in other folks' spiritual lives.

Same answer. Fethiye asserted one could be a Christian and unashamedly live a homosexual lifestyle and still please God. Fethiye has attempted to infest the Gospel with a vermin claim. Christians simply him/her on it.

Fathiye provoked the responses and then you accused those who respond, of the "fault" of responding.

I agree with others who have wisely noted that you consistently adopt the classic liberal Democrat line. You are no conervative. You are a disruptor in the same manner that Murrymom is a disruptor. You have just been more careful to keep your liberal tendencies muted so you are not tossed off.

[Kevin Curry]

I may made about 10,000 posts to this forum. I stand by them. I don't need to explain myself, certainly not to you. Folks here are very familiar with my point of view, which has been consistent from day one.

A non-answer answer that fully admits the accusation that you are a liberal disruptor while attempting to sound as if you are not.

Yes, we are familiar with your posts. Be gone, liberal.

[BullDog108]

Yes, we are familiar with your posts. Be gone, liberal.

Worth repeating!

[far sider]

Father Judge wasn't gay. That's a lie made up by the homos and Judge isn't here to defend himself.

[reborn22]

There is little doubt that the walls are coming down and unless there is a real spiritual awakening in this country we will see the day when the churches will back down and begin admitting queers in mass.

I remember speaking with a friend who was not of our political persuasion, but was still opposed to interracial marriages, but saw nothing wrong with Negroes attending the same church. His argument was, "We're all Christians."

During the conversation I mentioned the great social change that took place in our churches. A few years ago, Negroes had their own churches, and now, the very churches that one spoke against interracial marriages are performing interracial marriages.

I told him that these same churches will, in time, freely admit homosexuals into their congregations, followed by the performance of same-sex marriages.

He thought I was crazy - over-reacting!

But we see it happening now. Homosexuality is at the door. Many schools have in their library a video called, It's Elementary, which blatantly promotes the homosexual agenda.

I stand by my prediction. Most and I mean most churches will begin forgiving, then tolerating, and then inviting and then encouraging and finally performing same-sex marriages.

I Know most of you will disagree with me. But if the church you are going to now does not have the moral courage to condemn interracial marriages from the pulpit, they like wise will not be able to stand against homosexuals as they come marching through their doors.

I know that many are speaking against homosexuality from their pulpits now, but remember, they used to speak out against interracial marriages also, until it became unpopular to do so, or until they sold out for tax exempt status.

Unless we separate ourselves from this moral dilemma, there is little doubt that same-sex marriages will be legal in only a few years.

When that happens, it will be come the law, and a new door will open that will flood homosexuals into every corner of America.

And those churches that could not find the moral courage to stand against integration -will also lack the moral courage to stand against homosexuals who beat at their door for acceptance and promotion.

[far sider]

What are you smoking?!!!!!! And what Bible do you get your weird views from? I prefer the KJV to the KKK version.

[ImaGraftedBranch]

I know that many are speaking against homosexuality from their pulpits now, but remember, they used to speak out against interracial marriages also, until it became unpopular to do so, or until they sold out for tax exempt status.

so...are you stating that interracial marriages are immoral? As far as I know (and of course I could be wrong), there is no specific passages in the Word that speak out against interracial marriage.

Both genetics and experience show us that dark-skinned people can and often do produce fair-complexioned offspring. However, it's genetically impossible for fair-complexioned persons to produce dark-skinned offspring.

Remember this from Acts 17:26-30? "From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live.
27God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us.
28'For in him we live and move and have our being.' As some of your own poets have said, 'We are his offspring.'
29"Therefore since we are God's offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone--an image made by man's design and skill.
30In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent."

To speak of the need of racial division in marriage today, after knowing the Word and the science (there is more variance in DNA between members of the same race than between races), is not aligning yourself with the Word nor reason.

Remember the greatest racial division of all time between Jews and Gentiles? Read Ephesians 2:

"One in Christ

¹¹Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called "uncircumcised" by those who call themselves "the circumcision" (that done in the body by the hands of men)-- ¹²remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. ¹³But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.
¹⁴For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, ¹⁵by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, ¹⁶and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. ¹⁷He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. ¹⁸For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.
¹⁹Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God's people and members of God's household, ²⁰built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. ²¹In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. ²²And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit."

How about Numbers 12, where Moses married a Cushite (a Black woman -- look it up)

" Miriam and Aaron Oppose Moses
¹ Miriam and Aaron began to talk against Moses because of his Cushite wife, for he had married a Cushite. ² "Has the Lord spoken only through Moses?" they asked. "Hasn't he also spoken through us?" And the Lord heard this.
³ (Now Moses was a very humble man, more humble than anyone else on the face of the earth.)
⁴ At once the Lord said to Moses, Aaron and Miriam, "Come out to the Tent of Meeting, all three of you." So the three of them came out. ⁵ Then the Lord came down in a pillar of cloud; he stood at the entrance to the Tent and summoned Aaron and Miriam. When both of them stepped forward, ⁶ he said, "Listen to my words:

"When a prophet of the Lord is among you,
I reveal myself to him in visions,
I speak to him in dreams.
⁷ But this is not true of my servant Moses;
he is faithful in all my house.
⁸ With him I speak face to face,
clearly and not in riddles;
he sees the form of the Lord .
Why then were you not afraid
to speak against my servant Moses?"

⁹ The anger of the Lord burned against them, and he left them.
¹⁰ When the cloud lifted from above the Tent, there stood Miriam-leprous, ^[1] like snow. Aaron turned toward her and saw that she had leprosy; ¹¹ and he said to Moses, "Please, my lord, do not hold against us the sin we have so foolishly committed. ¹² Do not let her be like a stillborn infant coming from its mother's womb with its flesh half eaten away."
¹³ So Moses cried out to the Lord , "O God, please heal her!"
¹⁴ The Lord replied to Moses, "If her father had spit in her face, would she not have been in disgrace for seven days? Confine her outside the camp for seven days; after that she can be brought back." ¹⁵ So Miriam was confined outside the camp for seven days, and the people did not move on till she was brought back."

God unleashed punishment on Miriam because she disapproved of this interracial marriage and questioned the Lord's judgement.

God, however, specifically condemns acts of sexual depravity, which go aginst His divine will for creation.

There are some Christians that believe that interracial marriage is wrong. Show me some scripture where God forbids it like He forbids homosexuality. You can't. Our skin color is not something that should keep us apart, as we are all descended from Adam, and the faithful are ALL one in Christ.

[ImaGraftedBranch]

Far sider, I gave a lengthy reply to reborn22's post, because I was upset with this blatant racism. After reading it again, I am furious!

[far sider]

Thanks. His whole post was way-off.

I'm white. I have told both of my sons I would rather they marry white women, mainly because of prejudice in our society. However, I also told each of them I would MUCH rather they marry a Christian black woman, than a non-Christian white. Their wives and children will be welcome in my house no matter what their skin color is.

This reminds me of the great DC Talk song "What Have We Become?"..."A preacher shuns his brother, 'cause his wife's a different color, and this is unacceptable. His papa taught him so...Like an angel with no wings. Like a Kingdom with no King."

[far sider]

I remember speaking with a friend who was not of our political persuasion, but was still opposed to interracial marriages, but saw nothing wrong with Negroes attending the same church. His argument was, "We're all Christians." Your friend is right, and you're an embarrassment to "our side" if you really believe what you say.

A few years ago, Negroes had their own churches... I've got news for you. They still do. But any church any church that doesn't welcome people of all "races" or speaks against "interracial" marriages are not biblical and not Christian. In my church, we have a three pastors, one of whom is Black, several black members and mixed marriages. We make an effort in our city to unite believers, not divide them. And my church has never budged an inch on the fact that homosexuality is a sin. The idea that that there is a connection between integrating the church and accepting homosexuality is simply ludicrous.

In the Old Testament, the Jews were told not to marry non-Jews. That's the closest you can come to anything in the Bible against interracial marriage, even though it had nothing to do with race. In the New Testament, Paul said for believers not to marry non-believers. Period. Race is not a factor. Keep your racist views to yourself and ask God to show you the truth.

[Semaphore Heathcliffe]

I've got a good friend who moved to Dallas several years ago to become a part of the burgeoning homosexual community here. He attended Cathedral of Hope for a few years, but left it when he decided that the church was only legitimizing what he considered a sinful lifestyle. I met him when I moved into a house with him and two other guys who all attended the church I'd started attending.

The church we all attended had a disproportionately large male homosexual population in the singles group. Something like one third of the regular singles were homosexual males. They started going to church there because 1) they wanted to go to a church that didn't seek to legitimize homosexuality, and 2) they wanted to worship in a healing, open environment that would still hold them accountable for their actions. (that particular church has a quirky function of being where people go to "heal" from whatever ails their spirit. And since homosexuals are generally a bunch of wounded spirits, it made sense that a large group would end up there).

Some of the guys have moved away over the past few years. Several have gotten married to women and have children. A couple continue on in the singles group. At least one has left that church and is living with his partner, attending Cathedral of Hope or Whiterock Whatever it is, another gay church.

It's been interesting to see the evolution of that group over the years.