FBI's bullying tactics are growing tiresome

SUN-TIMES ^ | 8/29/02 | ROBERT NOVAK

[Vets_Husband_and_Wife]

No, it is NOT time to disband them. Again we are shown a story against them, but we fail to mention all the things they are accomplishing. I guess I for one am really sick of the glass half empty vs the glass half full attitude regarding anything run by our Government.

Read on:


U.S. Charges 6 With Terror Support
By ALEXANDRA R. MOSES
ASSOCIATED PRESS



DETROIT- When federal agents raided a Detroit apartment shortly after Sept. 11, they found three men living in what was essentially a flop house, with no beds and garbage bags full of clothing.

A search of the apartment resulted in an alarming discovery: a cache of false documents, a day planner detailing planned attacks in Turkey and Jordan and a videotape that appeared to case U.S. landmarks such as Disneyland in California and the MGM Grand Hotel and Casino in Las Vegas.

Karim Koubriti, Ahmed Hannan and Farouk Ali-Haimoud were taken into custody and charged with fraud and misuse of visas. At the time, officials said they were really looking for another man whose name appeared on the mailbox.

But on Wednesday, the three were among six men charged by federal grand juries with conspiring to support Osama bin Laden's al-Qaida network.

U.S. officials said they expected several more such indictments in coming months as the FBI, Customs Service and other federal agencies attempt to block money and operational support from the United States from reaching terror groups overseas.

Agents believe they have uncovered a broad effort by U.S. residents - many of whom are citizens or legal residents - to use credit card thefts, illegal cigarette sales, diverted charitable funds and cash smuggled in airline luggage to enrich terror groups, the officials said.

The charges include five men listed in the Detroit indictment and one in Seattle. In the Seattle case, Muslim activist Earnest James Ujaama was accused in a two-count indictment of trying to set up a "jihad (holy war) training camp" on the West Coast and providing support and resources to al-Qaida.

The indictment accused Ujaama, an American citizen, of leading discussions about creating poison to use on the public and firebombing vehicles. Ujaama has repeatedly denied any ties to terrorism.

The men arrested in Detroit were accused of acting with two others as "a covert underground support unit" and a "sleeper operational combat cell" for a radical Islamic movement allied with al-Qaida. They were charged with conspiracy to provide material support or resources to terrorists.

The other men named in the Detroit indictment are Youssef Hmimssa and a man known only by his first name, Abdella. Hmimssa was named at the top of the indictment, where the charges were listed, but was not further mentioned. U.S. officials offered no immediate explanation, although legal experts said it probably signaled that the details of Hmimssa's indictment are sealed by a court.

All of the men except Abdella are in custody.

The Detroit indictment said the men used code to speak about terrorist plans and were "involved in plans to obtain weaponry to benefit operatives overseas."

"Their planning involved specific violent attacks, including ones that targeted an American air base in Incerlik, Turkey, and a hospital in Amman, Jordan," the indictment said.

Hannan's attorney, James Thomas, said Wednesday he could not comment on the case, citing a gag order. Ali-Haimoud's attorney, Kevin Ernst, called the indictment "incredibly imflamatory."

"The only purpose is to create this atmosphere of fear," Ernst said Thursday. Attorneys for Koubriti and Hmimssa did not return calls seeking comment.

The indictment alleges the men checked Detroit Metropolitan Airport for gaps in security. Ali-Haimoud was arrested again in April at an airport ice cream shop where he worked, beyond the security checkpoint.

Koubriti and Hannan briefly worked as dishwashers for a catering company at two Sky Chefs buildings near Detroit Metro, but their badges didn't give them access to the airport.

Koubriti lived briefly in Falls Church, Va., on the same street as two of the suspected Sept. 11 hijackers, according to court filings. He and Hannan came to the United States nearly two years ago from Morocco, according to their passports and green cards.

Thomas has said he believes the men met in Canton, Ohio, where both lived. He said Koubriti and Hannan moved to the Detroit area because of its large Arab population.

Hmimssa was arrested Sept. 28 in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. His photo and an alias were found on many of the false IDs in the Detroit apartment.

Federal officials had seen Hmimssa before - under a different name. Authorities learned he had been arrested May 23, 2001 by the Secret Service in Chicago and charged under the alias Patrick J. Vuillaume for allegedly stealing credit card numbers using a "skimming" device.

Ujaama's indictment in Seattle came weeks after he was arrested in Denver and held as a material witness in the terrorism investigation. He has maintained his innocence, and his lawyer has pressed prosecutors to either charge him or release him.

"If there's anything positive to come out of this, it renders some certainty to his situation," attorney Daniel Sears said Wednesday.

The indictment contends Ujaama, born James Ernest Thompson, led a conspiracy to set up a training camp in Bly, Ore. He was charged with conspiracy to provide material support and resources for al-Qaida and with using, carrying, possessing and discharging firearms during a crime.

Ujaama's community work has won him praise in his hometown. He once was given a key to the city of Seattle. And state lawmakers declared June 10, 1994, James Ujaama Day.

In a written statement, Ujaama accused the government of conducting a witch hunt.

"Should it be the policy of this government to convict innocent people before any hearing or before any trial?" Ujaama asked. "My constitutional rights, my civil liberties and my future have been grossly violated in a bid to seek political gain, not justice or truth."

--

[Vets_Husband_and_Wife]

For every article that is posted about how terrible our Government is doing, I can find usually two or more media stories buried deep in some obscure newspaper or on some internet news site, that shows that they are doing a great job. Do they always get it right? No..

Did they treat this professor right? I don't know that for sure yet. I question the motives of the FBI notifying the press when they were doing the search, a search ok'd by the Professor. But then how do I know for certain, that the Professors friends or lawyers didn't notify the press??

I'm saying I will give the benefit of the doubt to our Government. I do expect them to get it wrong on occassion. But in order to fully examine threatening situations, you are going to see the "rare" case when they get it wrong. I say "RARE" because statistically they have been getting it pretty darn right since 9/11. IMHO

[Nogbad]

ping

[FreeTheHostages]

I agree. In particular, detection of the Detroit sleeper cell and indictment on evidence of their operational character was a total intelligence coup by the FBI for which it should be praised. I think the Detroit cell indictment is much more important the Oregon arrest -- confused why the media's focussing mostly on Oregon today.

I think a lot of people who use this website admire Attorney General Ashcroft, as do I. They're just not attrated to these threads.

[freeperfromnj]

statistically they have been getting it pretty darn right since 9/11.

I agree with that. A year without incident has gone by (knocking wood). This is an important, high profile case that is probably being micro-managed from the top. Those agents were totally out of line for leaking information and trashing his girlfriend's home and should be called on the carpet for it. However, Ashcroft has had ample time to do some damage control early on -- apologize, take his lumps and move on -- but he hasn't done that. You have to wonder why not.

[Travis McGee]

FAMOUS, BUT INCOMPETENT.

[Thud]

Loyalty is far more important to Bush than competence. Clinton was the same way.

[Thud]

He'd rather have loyal idiots around than competent independents.

[AmusedBystander]

I'm saying I will give the benefit of the doubt to our Government.

I generally agree with you that the vast majority of FBI agents do a great job, many on cases that we will never know about.

Anyone who has ever worked for/with the government (any government) can testify that un-doing a bureaucracy as big as any agency in the US government can never be done by an elected President. Bureaucracies are only defeated by revolution with new bureaucracies sprouting up in their place.

Every revolution evaporates and leaves behind only the slime of a new bureaucracy. - Kafka

[glorygirl]

Did anybody see "Nightline" last night? Joseph Salvati, who spent 30 years in prison for a murder the FBI knew he did not commit, was on. He is suing the FBI for $300 million. Rather than settling, Ashcroft et al. are apparently going to face off in court with this guy. It was awful.

Check out this link for more info.

[tracer]

btt

[Vets_Husband_and_Wife]

Ashcroft has had ample time to do some damage control early on -- apologize, take his lumps and move on -- but he hasn't done that. You have to wonder why not.

Exactly!

It was nice to come back on FR and see some support for all these people who are doing a difficult job. Some even laying their lives on the line for all of us. Thanks for supporting them.

I'm witholding judgement on the professors case, until we see where this is all leading. If it turns out, he and his girlfriend were abused by the system, they should be apologized to very publicly. But as we just saw in the arrest of the fellow in Germany, all is not always as it seems. That terrorist stated (very publicly to the media) that he was totally innocent too. It did not remove him from suspicion, and indeed he has now been arrested.

That the Attorney General did not back off in any way.. makes me very curious about this investigation. Time will prove this one out.

[Vets_Husband_and_Wife]

In particular, detection of the Detroit sleeper cell and indictment on evidence of their operational character was a total intelligence coup by the FBI for which it should be praised

I liken what happens to our Agents to that of policemen. All their good deeds are swept under the rug by one bad deed. What is done daily for months, even years, all the risks they take is overshadowed by the bad deeds of a few people in their organizations. Then they are stereotyped. I was raised to avoid stereotyping all actions, and attributing them towards and entire group of people. Statistically, when you look at the good done, vs the bad done, the good wins hands out!

All the bad doesn't outweight the good at all. It just doesn't equate to an "evil" police force. Nor an evil FBI or ATF, etc.

Plus, our intelligence has been severely compromised for years. Now they are free'r (sp?) to do their jobs, thanks to this administration. They aren't trying to do it with their collective hands tied behind their backs anymore. It was "liberal" thinking that is to blame for the rise in crimes since I was little, clear up to the 9/11 attacks (and everything bad in between). I can say that, because we keep giving MORE AND MORE rights to criminals! Bleeding heart Liberals who were more worried about the rights of those wishing us harm us.. the rights of criminals, have created a huge mess.

The old addage "you reap what you sow" comes to mind.

It was great to come back on FR and actually see support for our own. The good guys!!

We haven't seen a lot of that on FR lately. It seems like all we were seeing upon coming to FR was Bush bashing, and fear mongers (of our Government). I keep saying history will be the best judge,..and I want to go on record stating that HISTORY will show that this President, and his administration did an outstanding job, one done under the MOST difficult of situations. Situations that finally got OUT OF HAND. Nobody at the helm for 8 years didn't help either!

I know this about our Agents jobs.. it is a job I sure wouldn't want. The pay isn't very good, and it is a job done for a population that overall takes them for granted. In otherwords, a THANK-less job. But they aren't doing it for praise.. they do it because they know it is a job that needs to be done. Where would we be without them, or other agencies that afford us protection?

Perhaps by bumping the positive threads, and posting more of them, we can turn things around here. At least when I came back to this thread expecting to be bashed, I had a pleasant surprise today.

Again, thanks!!

[Vets_Husband_and_Wife]

I think we keep getting it right in this country. It continually amazes us after seeing what other forms of Governments do, and how other countries handle their problems, just how PERFECT we do get it!!

[Nogbad]

Let me understand exactly what you are saying:

I am a Bush-basher if I don't support the FBI wholeheartedly
and don't go along with their single-minded belief
that the anthrax mailer was not an Islamic terrorist
but was a lone right-wing American.

All of the old leftists strongly support the FBI on this one
and are overjoyed with what is happening to Hatfill.

I guess you are proud to be in their company.

[glorygirl]

"I keep saying history will be the best judge,..and I want to go on record stating that HISTORY will show that this President, and his administration did an outstanding job, one done under the MOST difficult of situations. Situations that finally got OUT OF HAND. Nobody at the helm for 8 years didn't help either!

All of this is true. See the story I linked to in post #30. If you did not see Nightline last night, I wish you had. The man in question spent 30 years in prison because he was falsely convicted at the behest of the FBI. J.Edgar Hoover and others at the FBI KNEW he was innocent, and did nothing, in order to protect the informants who committed the crime. The convicted man had four children. His wife and four children visited him in prison every week for 30 YEARS. He cried throughout the entire interview. He has been married for 49 years, and 30 of them were spent IN PRISON FOR A CRIME HE DID NOT COMMIT.

Is this the kind of thing you want to happen repeatedly when you say "history will judge?"

And this is not the only case of this kind.

Let me ask you a question. How many FBI agents do you know? How many have you spoken with? I have spoken with many, and questioned them. If you do know a "good agent," ask them their personal opinion about the FBI. It will likely echo that of Colleen Rowley.

There is NOTHING "UNAMERICAN" about questioning the operations of a government agency, especially one that is as screwed up as the FBI, especially when people within its own ranks are questioning it.

Do you want to see more people go to prison for 30 years for no reason? And then say, "oh well," we were worried about terrorists?

Most of us who do question things like this on FR would much rather see GW in the oval office than a democratic alternative. And most of us are just as angry, if not more angry, than you, about what happened during the eight years preceding his term.

But a lot of people better wake up to the fact that there are MANY PEOPLE concerned in this country about the operations of the Justice Department. And MANY of those people will be voting in the next presidential election.

I am particularly aggravated with the patronizing tone you adopted in your post because of my worries about the increasing number of Freepers who are getting bounced from this site for expressing opinions or posting links that are apparently considered "too radical." Even more upsetting is an even larger group of posters who are afraid to post their true thoughts for fear of getting bounced.

This is unfortunate. Just because someone questions John Ashcroft doesn't mean they hate G-W BUSH, or blame him for 9/11.

The last time I checked, freedom of speech, and the press, are two of the values we are supposed to hold most dear. I know I hold them dear, what about you? What about John Ashcroft?

Constitutional matters are clearly at issue in the "war against terrorism" and they need to be, at the very least, discussed

[FreeTheHostages]

Um, *I'm* proud to be his company. I still want to know why Hatfill lost his security clearance and more about the evidence that the FBI has on him. I'm far from certain that he's innocent (and far from certain that he's guilty). The only thing I'm certain of us that the FBI's interest in him is probably legitimate and that neither I, nor the Veteran you address above, are leftists for surmising so.

We shall see.

[FreeTheHostages]

Ping per above post

[Nogbad]

The only thing I'm certain of is
that the FBI's interest in him is probably legitimate

Hatfill is innocent.
There is no evidence.
If you want to know why the FBI is so interested in him,
ask Daschle, Leahy and Barbara Hatch Rosenberg
because the FBI is acting out of strong political pressure.

[FreeTheHostages]

Bob Mueller's a fine man and wouldn't do that.