Did U.S. shoot first at Pearl Harbor?

Associated Press ^ | 29 August 2002

[Semper Paratus]

My wife's grandfather was on Admiral Kimmel's staff and said the Navy knew the Japs were deploying these subs near Pearl and were looking for them a month prior to Dec. 7.

[erikm88]

The same peace-loving Japan that invaded Manchuria because of some arrogant, egotistical, genocidal emperor with dreams of conquering the south pacific because he believed he was better than the world.... You mean that peace-loving Japan??? [/sarcasm]

--erik

[bruin66]

Researchers said Wednesday they found a Japanese midget submarine sunk ...

How insensitive! Shouldn't that be "dimensionally challenged"? You're welcome...

[joyful1]

Someone's got too mucy time on their hands. My garage needs cleaning, need a job??

[KC_Conspirator]

What's this? A prelude to revisionist claims that Japan then attacked Pearl Harbor in retaliation?

LOL! Yes, of course Willie. Americans are bad according to the ACLU and the leftist professors who run the universities. I think reparations for Japan are in order...

[al_c]

Did U.S. shoot first at Pearl Harbor?

Not according to this post. I'll paste some of it here.

At 6 am USS Enterprise launched Scouting Six

Also at 6 am the Japanese lanch there aircraft for the attach on Pearl Harbor

At some point one of Scouting Six came in contact with the Japanese before the attack

Pilot Ensign Manuel Gonzales, of Scouting Six, was heard on the radio to say

"Please don't shoot! Don't shoot! This is an American plane."

Moments later, he was heard ordering his Gunner aircrewman Leonard J. Kozelek to bail out: neither man was ever heard from again.

[kms61]

Sometimes people on FR are just a BIT too quick to see liberal bias. IMHO.

[Howlin]

I just got back........I'll do it today, Mr. Green, honest! :-)

[Poohbah]

tophat9000, I need a source for this, please. Japanese aircraft should have been well to the north of the Enterprise search area on 12/7/41.

[joesnuffy]

Yep...and the fleet waiting over the horizon was just taking a joy ride happend to be in the area when the brutal attack occured and rushed in to save their compatriots

[Congressman Billybob]

You got that right. Admiral Yamamoto led a Japanese fleet all the way across the Pacific under great secrecy precisely to attack Pearl Harbor. The fact that the Americans spotted and fired on one of four Japanese midget submarines (advancing toward the port on the surface at the time) before the planes attacked, is therefore the "shot that started it all"?

Puleeeze.

I just finished an excellent book, Paul Revere's Ride, 1994, by David Hackett Fischer. Using all available sources, including depositions -- of both American and British soldiers in the battle -- taken days after the atttacks on Lexington and Concord, he concludes that it is impossible to say who (on which side) actually fired the first shot. It seems that the first shot was fired by someone other than those in the ranks of British Regulars or the Minutemen, who were facing each other about 50 yards apart on Lexington Green as dawn broke on 19 April, 1775.

It is only clear that the first volley was fired by the Regulars at the Minutemen, without any orders to fire from the British commander of that unit. Applying that analogy to the attack on Pearl Harbor, whoever fired the "first shot" is irrelevant. It was the first volley that committed both nations to war. And the first "volley" at Pearl Harbor was the first wave of Yamamoto's Zeros which attacked the American warships.

Congressman Billybob

Click for latest column: "Memo to CBS about Bill Clinton."

Click for latest book: "to Restore Trust in America"

[colorado tanker]

"Fortunately [luck?] the American Navy carriers were out of port or it would have been a short and most unsatisfactory war." Ditto that. No carriers = no Miracle at Midway.

[Jeff Head]

Well and truly said.

[phasma proeliator]

Historical PING.

[ArrogantBustard]

Expecting accuracy regarding weapons in the American media is hopeless cause.

No kidding. This includes their wording of the damage to the newly discovered wreck. The Ward's after action report is posted in this thread; it notes that the shell which was observed to strike the submarine was observed not to have exploded. A photograph of the Ward is also posted in this thread. That forward deck gun may be a 3" piece. In any case I wouldn't call a through hit from even a 3" shell a "bullet hole", but this is the AP talking, here. They're complete, unadulterated idiots.

AB

[hoosierskypilot]

This is as logical as my shooting an armed man on my doorstep, then having to drag him inside. If they're there, they're there, and it ain't for tea!

[RightWhale]

Oh, a 3" shell. I was wondering, at least a .50 caliber, but that wouldn't make much of a hole, and why would there be just one.

[zip]

but after checking the link, I can see that it is MSNBC that put this stupid spin on the story. I should have guessed.
Yep. That explains it all.

I was trying to think of a way to say what I thought about the title but would've gotten banned for my thoughts. lol
You all nailed it.

[Eric in the Ozarks]

I still have several 35 MM slides taken by my dad in about 1950, of a couple of these "midget" subs on a Japanese beach. There were several kinds. A three man sub carried two torpedos. Another, single man sub, Kaiten (tremendous task)was a guided underwater bomb used ineffectively near the end of the war