Limbaugh to White House: What About Salman Pak?

Newsmax.com ^ | 8 30 2002 | Carl Limbacher

[xzins]

Hey, are you any good on the doctrine of soul sleep and/or soul death?

Heresy or Error? (Please don't say 'acceptable.')

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

A July 21, 2001 article in an Egyptian newspaper article headlined, "America, an Obsession with Osama bin Laden" indicated that Baghdad knew what was coming three months later, the former U.S. intelligence chief told the court. The report, written by an Iraqi, predicted bin Laden would target both New York City and the Pentagon.

I read your Post, but I'd still like to read the Article in question. Gotta Babelfish translation of the Egyptian, by any chance?

Not out of "doubt", but certainly out of "justifiable curiosity".

[the_doc]

You better be able to look Him in the eye and give Him your reasons for killing tens of thousands of people... without feeling ashamed of yourself. If you can't do that, your "Reasons" aren't good enough.

BTTT.

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

Hey, are you any good on the doctrine of soul sleep and/or soul death? Heresy or Error? (Please don't say 'acceptable.') ~~ xzins (Babylon, you have been weighed in the balance and been found wanting!)

Soul sleep? I would not say "acceptable".

Intrinsically Error, but Heresy if mixed with Dualistic Gnosticism (as it often is).

Ping "the_doc" for more; he will both understand my response and be able to add more, if he cares.

[xzins]

Nope. Don't have the article. Just the word of Woolsey. He did go unchallenged, however.

I found another interesting article the other day just surfing the web.

(Beirut conference)...A number of groups that U.S. officials consider the most dangerous were represented at the Beirut conference, including Osama bin Laden's al-Qaida organization; Hamas; Hezbollah; and the Islamic Jihad, U.S. officials said.

All of the groups have claimed responsibility in the past for attacks on American and Israeli targets.

One State Department official called the Beirut meeting a "cause for concern" but cautioned it "doesn't indicate that we (the United States) should expect a rash of coordinated activity."

Another reason for concern, officials say, was the presence of representatives from Iran and Iraq.

By CNN, Adrea Koppel

Guess when? Feb 2001.

[xzins]

the_doc won't talk to me.

Anyone else?

[ggekko]

We are still cleaning up messes from the Clinton administration. All the intellignece failures that led up to 9/11 were aided and abetted by systemic intelligence failures in the CIA and FBI.

The administration has hard intelligence linking Saddam to the 9/11 attack and other attacks against American interests worldwide. These facts have not been made more widely know because the CIA under George Tenet keeps undercutting the Bush administration in order to cover up for their gross failures in Iraq.

In the 1993 the CIA attempted to aid a coup attempt against Iraq and Saddam. That attempt was a failure with all the conspirators being executed by Saddam. Ever since that failed attempt the CIA has been at cross purposes with the Bush administration as a successful regime change will be deeply embarassing for them.

The Bush administration has pudently decided not engage in a major shakeup in CIA while leading into the Iraq mission. Make not mistake, however, Iraq has been the number one target ever since 9/11.

If regime change is sucessful in Iraq expect to George Tenets head on a post shortly thereafter. The Clinton administration gutted the CIA's effectiveness under John Deutsch and George Tenet. After Tenet is gone it will still take years to rebuild the agencies effectiveness.

[the_doc]

Oh, my soul, I'm too sleepy right now [grin].

[xzins]

Iran is target 2. Korea is target 2.0000000009

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

the_doc won't talk to me. Anyone else? 126 posted on 03/12/2003 9:28 PM PST by xzins

Ahh. Well, "the_doc" is an ordained Presbyter of the Baptist Confession and enjoys a right to pick his battles. I'll respect that.

So, I'll say this on my OWN behalf...

• The dogma of "Soul Sleep" is unsupported by Scripture, which makes it an Error of Invention at best (more details, if you want).
• But at worst, the dogma of "Soul Sleep" is usually tied to a "Dualistic Gnostic" heresy of flesh-hatred. We're all gonna slough off these "dirt suits" and be "halo-wearing Ghosts" in Heaven, don'cha know.

That is HERESY. It denies the fact that God designed Man and Creation as Spirit Enfleshed, and He fully intends to accomplish His PERFECT Design (and in the process, glorify the Incarnate Word -- Very Man of Very Man -- as Lord of Men and Redeemer of Men and Judge of Men).

It denies the whole point of the Bodily Resurrection -- de facto, if not de jure.

[T. Buzzard Trueblood]

BTTT

[xzins]

do the adventists and JW's have a gnostic dualistic approach from what you know of them?

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

Beirut conference, including Osama bin Laden's al-Qaida organization... Another reason for concern, officials say, was the presence of representatives from Iran and Iraq. By CNN, Adrea Koppel Guess when? Feb 2001.

Fragmentary, but not a bad squib.

[MHGinTN]

Thank you for your gracious acceptance of my sincere apology. Since you've raised it, I shall try to put forward a few things of which I'm acquainted' regarding the nexus of Iraq and world-wide terrorism ... not trivial good reasons to be aggressive when dealing with a cancerous growth in the religion of Islam, Islamism, as in totalitarianism and forced obeisance to 'allah'.

In 1993, the WTC was attacked by persons connected not just to al Qeda but to the accessories from Iraq whom it is now certain helped to finance and train and provide with documents forged and covered through the invasion of Kuwait.

The planned hijacking plot for several airliners by an Iraqi connected terrorist group working in the Phillipines that never happened due to lucky intel and accidental disruptions.

Saddam and Usama's sons are close friends (Uday, I believe is the one who invited Usama's son to a birthday party in Iraq).

Salman Pak is well covered above, but note please the connection to the research and training with chem and bio weapons there and the defectors who've testified to al Qaeda members being trained there.

It is now known from defectors out of Iraq that Saddam sent persons from his secret police to Afghanistan, to train and equip al Qeda personnel in handling and producing bio and chem weapons, now connected to the planned use of chem weapons in London, thwarted by the Italian efforts.

Saddam tried to assassinate the previous President Bush in Kuwait.

Saddam has invaded two neighboring nations and used chemical weapons on the Iranis, weapons originally obtained through the Carter administration.

Saddam has murdered tens-of-thousands of his own Iraqi people, including moire than ten thousand Kurdish villagers, not Kurdish troops in rebellion.

There are dozens of al Qaeda now being harbored in Baghdad and Northern Iraq.

saddam pays the families of the suicide murderers assaulting the civilians of Israel.

Saddam sent scud missiles into Saudi Arabian and Israel, killing civilians as well as our troops there.

It is the espoused aim of Islamism to rule the world and Saddam has made speeches in which he fashions his image as a modern Islamic messiah ... and any student of history understand the peril in ignoring an Islamic man professing the desire to rule his known world and bring all non-Moslem people under the forced worship of allah or be put to the sword.

[T. Buzzard Trueblood]

BTTT

[xzins]

cnn article found here: beirut conference, 2001 article

And then, of course, there's the Freeper "Mother of all iraqi-bin laden threads": Freeper Resource: What Team Saddam Doesn’t Want You To Know!

[xzins]

see #136

[the_doc]

Good post. You have a couple of items which I didn't have.

I personally accept quite a few of your items, taken together, as more than sufficent cause for attacking Iraq.

[MHGinTN]

That's weird, I had at least three other paragraphs to my above post that didn't end up in the final post!

From my reading of scripture I would offer that Jesus doesn't condemn self defense and if you cannot see that Iraq poses a direct threat to the U.S and in fact all of Western Civilization with his proven connections to terrorist groups who hate America and have vowed to attack us, then I cannot persuade you further. Perhaps we are to remain in disagreement.

We are already in a HOT war with world-wide terrorism and Saddam, if he remains alive in power in Iraq, can and will export death and misery to this nation for we are the only real thing standing between him and world domination via control over Middle East oil. If he gets nukes, he will use them on Iran and Kuwait and then seek some way to destroy Israel, and he doesn't care how many Iraqis or Israelis are slaughtered in his quest. Perhaps that would be the onset of armageddon, but it is troubling that I do not find America in the final battle of Revelations. I don't want to risk Saddam aiding and abetting our demise.

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

To: OrthodoxPresbyterian do the adventists and JW's have a gnostic dualistic approach from what you know of them? 132 posted on 03/12/2003 9:43 PM PST by xzins (Babylon, you have been weighed in the balance and been found wanting!)

JW's teach that, "In his resurrection, he was no more human. He was raised a spirit creation" (The Kingdom Is At Hand, p. 258)... This is heretical Gnostic Dualism, plain as day. Heresy.

As far as the Adventists go, they are probably closer to a pure "Soul Sleep" Dogma, an Error but not necessarily a Heresy which does not expressly deny the Bodily Resurrection (indeed, they say that they wholeheartedly affirm the Bodily Resurrection -- though it is always important to define our terms).

Are the Adventists in error? Or are they downright heretical?

My Orthodox Presbyterian teaching elder ("pastor") had a great observation on Adventists. He observed that...

• If you ask an Adventist about their "Prophetess" Ellen G. White, "Was she a Revelatory Prophet like unto Elijah or Isaiah... or, as the Mormons claim, Joseph Smith"? The Adventists will generally deny that she was such a Revelatory Prophet.
• But if you ask ask an Adventist about their "Prophetess" Ellen G. White, "Was she merely a Great Theologian -- an Augustine, or a Luther, or a Calvin or a Wesley?" The Adventists will generally reserve that No, she was a much greater Illuminator of Scripture than any such mortals.

Certainly, they are Strict Sabbatarian Legalists, at best. But Heretics?

This is why, though it is impossible to call Adventists any sort of "orthodox Christians", it is also hard to classify Adventists in the Camp of the Heretics with Mormons and JW's.

Ever they do skirt the fine line between gross Error and outright Heresy... ever they do sit upon the Pnuematological Fence.