Bush to OK Guns for Airline Pilots

AP via The NY Times ^ | 5 September 2002 | AP

[HardStarboard]

>>>"the White House recommended giving pilots lockboxes for the weapons"<<<

I'll trust pilots to carry weapons, but no lockboxes. Gore promised me that my social security payments are in one and I don't want it flying around with some fiscally unresponsible airline pilot.

[AAABEST]

What is this obsession in Washgington with Lock Boxes?

Really. They'd put every damn thing into a lock box if they could, including you.

[Chad Fairbanks]

Good! There's too many belligerent IRS agents flying these days...

[Chad Fairbanks]

Plus, if the plane crashes, some of us wouldn't be able to retire...

[Carry_Okie]

My suggestion would be to wear it on the side away from the cockpit door.

[headsonpikes]

"Dumb and Dumber" bump.

[Joe Brower]

[jonboy]

Al Aitken, a pilot speaking for the 14,500-member union representing American Airlines pilots, which supports arming pilots, said the 87-6 vote meant the Senate recognized that all the security layers the administration is putting into place are still inadequate.

So who are the six who voted against it? Seems to me we may have some campaign fodder here (hopefully NOT EVEN a RINO would be dumb enough to vote against this).

[tall_tex]

Woops, misread your post. Do not think that matters, since all the cockpit doors are to be reinforsed. Although the more I think about it, I just get a headache. Tom(by the way born and raised in Edmond, my lady also)

[BearCub]

The administration also warned the cost would be significant -- $900 million to start and $250 million annually thereafter -- and said there is no money now in the Transportation Security Administration budget to cover the expenses.

$900 million for WHAT??!?

That's over $10k per pilot!! All you need is one or two handguns ($500 each) per airplane plus $150 worth of training per pilot. Arrrgh - why must the government cost so damned much no matter what they do?!

Someone needs to be fired for even suggesting costs like this.

-bc

[calvin sun]

The "no" votes:

NAYS --- 6
Chafee Jeffords Reed
Corzine Kennedy Specter

[SBeck]

Here me out. A lockbox makes sense from a couple of standpoints:

1. An airline pilot is easily identified and even if he picks up his firearm in the sterile area - beyond the checkpoint - he or she will become a target of opportunity for a directed attack by terrorists to obtain firearms.
2. A lockbox would give airport police the time to respond to an incident. I know how that sounds, but the function of the weapon is for the defense of the cockpit. Its carriage in the airport is a liability and a risk.
3. Missle command uses lockboxes to secure the codes for the launch of nuclear weapons inside their already secure launch facilities. This is probably the same reasoning behind the lockbox, it prevents the accidental or inadvertent use of a weapon of last intent.

Don't let the use of a lockbox override the logic of another layer of defense.

[jimtorr]

""Lock boxes, will they be a ten number combination lock or a itty bitty lock box key. ""

You can go to most any gun shop today and buy a small gun safe just large enough for one hand gun. Most of the ones I've seen have a four or five button combination and can be opened in five seconds.

I think a "lock box" in the cockpit is ridiculous, but if that's what it takes to arm our pilots, then so be it.

[El Gato]

Ever been in a close quarter combat situation? It's not the physical but mental training that takes time to develop. Hesitation always kills.

No thank the Lord! But understand your point. Still better a chance to avoid being AMRAAMed is better than none. In their circumstance they will generally have some warnig of a problem, provided they keep that cockpit hatch secured, especially after the hatches are beefed up. After all, one crew had time to pull out the fire ax to deal with a potential hijacker breaking into the cockpit.

[El Gato]

Therefore, they may be "familiar" with weapons but chances are they never engaged a hostile force with small arms.

And your point is? Neither have the vast majority of police officers. The chances that any particular pilot will be involved in a hijacking or other terrorist incident are miniscule. They don't need special forces or SWAT training, just some minimal familarlization training as well as some "when to shoot" training, of the sort given to concealed handgun license applicants, but more specialized. Remember also that these are people who are trained in quick thinking and staying calm under pressure. Just read some cockpit voice recorder transcripts, either of crash incidents or more importantly avoided crash incidents. A nice random selection of pilots, and they almost are all trying to be like Chuck Yeager, and doing a fair job of it.

[goodnesswins]

"The "no" votes:

NAYS --- 6
Chafee Jeffords Reed
Corzine Kennedy Specter"

OHHH, REALLLLYY....wonder if any of these have armed protection day and night, and fly on PRIVATE jets? Just an innocent question from a dumb voter/flyer/citizen.

[dubyagee]

$900 million for WHAT??!?

That's the exact thing I thought when I heard this on Fox News. Why is it when the government is involved in anything, so are hundreds of millions of dollars.

You simply reverse the law that is in place. Stipulate that pilots who are trained to use fire arms are permitted to use them. Then let those pilots carry their personal guns onto the planes if they so choose! What's so expensive about that?

[45Auto]

The administration also warned the cost would be significant -- $900 million to start and $250 million annually thereafter

How in the hell can that much money be spent on a few thousand guns and the required ammo? I sure wish my firearms budget was $900 million. Methinks some pork has been introduced into this bill.

[lepton]

3. Missle command uses lockboxes to secure the codes for the launch of nuclear weapons inside their already secure launch facilities.

Ummm. That's to keep them safe from the people inside. It keeps people from being able to use that knowledge to fake launch codes. It's not because they want to make sure that they don't accidentally use the codes.

[ThePythonicCow]

never engaged a hostile force with small arms

That's where the locked cockpit door comes in. If the door was wide open, then the pilot might have a few seconds in which to react, upon realizing that his co-pilot just had his jugular severed by a box cutter. That sort of reaction takes practice -- it has to become a reflex. But if it takes a half-minute of bashing down the cockpit door before the bad guys gain entry, I'll bet the average gun fearing liberal, given a gun, could figure out what do to, in a timely fashion. That is, so long as they aren't still trying to work the combination on the lock box.