Microsoft: "Our products aren't engineered for security" [Duh!]

Computer Weekly ^ | Friday 6 September 2002 | CW360 Staff

[dheretic]

IIS, Exchange, Outlook, Outlook Express, Office, etc aren't part of the Windows kernel either, bozo.

Well that would make YOU the idiot because most of what makes up "Linux" to people like you is platform agnostic. BASH, XFree86, KDE, GNOME, Apache, etc run just as well on FreeBSD and now on Darwin as they do on Linux. Let's see IIS run just as easily on MacOSX as it does on Windows. IIS is tied down far more heavily to Windows than Apache is to any particular UNIX. Of course you already knew that; you were just making yourself look like a moron for our amusement.

[dheretic]

Show me bugs in which the Windows kernel caused a vulnerability.

If GDI or another component of the Windows windowing system has a problem it's a Windows issue. If XFree86 has a problem it's a XFree86 issue, not a "Linux" issue. Of course the concept of having XFree86 be a separate product that runs on the Linux kernel, *BSD, Darwin and MacOSX would make no sense to someone like you.

[HAL9000]

If you run a business -- Access.

Mac OS X does include an ODBC driver, so Access is accessable. But the demand for MS Access on Macs is virtually nil because better solutions are available.

I prefer to run MySQL on Mac OS X. It has many excellent features, tons of support software are available, it's web accessible and it's free. It also runs on Linux and several other platforms. MySQL is used on the FreeRepublic servers for storing information about user accounts and threads.

Oracle, Sybase and FileMaker RDBMS software is also available for Mac OS X.

Macs also includes a simple database system built-in to the AppleWorks applications suite.

[dheretic]

"We really haven't done everything we could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security," admitted Valentine, who since 1998 has headed Microsoft's Windows division.

Past tense, you moron.

Don't insult him because the average elementary school student has a more thorough grasp of English verb conjugation than you do.

[js1138]

So how many small businesses run their sales, gl, payroll, etc on Macs? I don't deny thy might be able to, but I suspect that at least 96% don't.

[Denver Ditdat]

Is there some particular must-have application you know of that Mac users can't get?

For those of us using high-end Intel boxes for entertainment(gaming), the answer is an unfortunate yes.

Sure, consoles are a lot cheaper and have scads of available titles, but I'm more partial to strategy games and realistic flight sims, neither of which seem to be well-supported by the Playstation or the XBox.

Current flight sim titles on my PC: FS2002, IL2, Jane's F/A-18, X-Plane, Jane's WWII Fighters, Rowan's Battle of Britain, Mig Alley, European Air War, B-17II The Mighty Eighth, and Xtreme Air Racing. Of those, I know X-Plane has a Mac counterpart. The rest are, as far as I know, pure Windows apps. I'm aware of the Windows emulators available for OSX, but I have serious doubts that the kind of CPU cycle hungry sims I fly would run smoothly in that environment.

So are those "must-have" apps? Not really. But then again, neither is satellite or cable television, or any TV for that matter. It's just the kind of entertainment I prefer. (I don't own a TV, BTW. Ditched it in 1990 and haven't missed it a bit.) The television analogy, should I ever decide to buy one again,would be something along the lines of a sexy HDTV set with Dolby surround that only received Garrison Keillor and Live From Kennedy Center. Nice hardware, but where's Monday Night Football, Cinemax, Speedvision, and Fox News?

Don't get me wrong - I think that Apple builds some very desirable hardware, with a good OS to match. I'd like to see the kind of gaming support the Mac enjoyed in the early 90s before I'd consider buying a new machine.

[js1138]

Mac OS X does include an ODBC driver...

That's what I call a user friendly app. LOL

[HAL9000]

So how many small businesses run their sales, gl, payroll, etc on Macs?

The software is available, but I don't know how many businesses use them.

Intuit has announced that QuickBooks Pro 5.0 for Mac OS X will be released early next year.

[toupsie]

This is an honest question, no provocation intended: is the kernel source available for MacOS 9.x and earlier?

I am not sure about OS 9 (I try not to use it) but I do know that System 7.5 is available for free. Mac OS X is completely open at the kernel level. However, unless you want to kill your product, I would never touch the code of kernel from the old "Classic" Mac OS. I am a UNIX fan and not a fan of Apple's past OS design. They got it right with OS X.

[toupsie]

As far as I know, MS has only been orange book certified once - and that was for NT service pack 4 on one specific hardware platform (I forget which one).

I think that was the Alpha version of NT if memory serves me right. I ran it (played around with it is more accurate) on one of my DEC Alphas as a Dual Boot a several years ago. I even have a PPC port of Windows NT which never made it out to the general public -- just a developer release -- I am sure that was not the secure one. :)

[js1138]

QuickBooks is a POS. Propriatary database. No way to customize, no way to import or export data, multi-user access is painfully slow due to inefficient record (table?) locking. A real trap if your company outgrows its features.

[HAL9000]

For those of us using high-end Intel boxes for entertainment(gaming), the answer is an unfortunate yes.

Yes, video action games are the main area where Windows has an advantage over Mac in software availability.

[Knitebane]

For those of us using high-end Intel boxes for entertainment(gaming), the answer is an unfortunate yes.

You are aware, aren't you, that the vast majority of Windows games will run just fine on Linux using Wine?

And if you are squeamish about configuring Wine, you can always buy a $15, three-month subscription to TransGaming and download their version of Wine that has a nice installer and lots of little fixes to make Windows gaming on Linux a bit easier.

[Bush2000]

Ew, Mac users are now 'bigots' -- I thought you were calling us 'morons' and 'bozos' earlier. Got anymore personal insults up your sleeves?

Sure, try 'sycophantic', 'closed-minded', 'ego-challenged', 'deluded', and '', for starters. Mac OS X bugs aren't swept under the carpet. They are fixed.

LMFAO! A few minutes ago, Windows was a buggy POS. Now, we see that Mac OSX is a buggy POS, as well. Point well taken.

As evidensed by your post of a total of one Apple Web Page of bugs. One page. That's the shortest bug list I know of in the OS industry.

Whooo, boy. How many vulnerabilities does a hacker need to root your box and/or steal your data? Oh, but wait! Apple's only got a page of 'em... Like distinctions of those kind make any difference when critical flaws exist.

Where are those supposive posts where I say that, "Outlook is a part of the Windows kernel"?

I'm still waiting for you to point out how Windows is flawed. So far, I haven't seen any exploits of the Windows kernel. All that we see are bugs in IIS, Outlook, etc, which aren't even part of Windows.

[Bush2000]

Just the past month. And that doesn't include whatever is causing the "mysterious hacks" that they can't figure out.

See #21. Apple had at least 3 exploits in August. Still want to have a d*-waving contest?

[Bush2000]

I don't see the kernel source there. Where is it? That's what we were talking about, the kernel.

Even assuming you could read kernel code, you don't need that data to ascertain where the flaw is.

What happens if I don't want to trust what Microsoft has to say about Windows' kernel? If you don't trust Apple, you can look and inspect their kernel source just xBSD and GNU/Linux systems.

What happens if I don't trust the phone-home code in Apple Quicktime, troll? Where can I find source for that?

[Bush2000]

If GDI or another component of the Windows windowing system has a problem it's a Windows issue.

GDI isn't part of the Windows kernel. If it had been Linux, you and the rest of the trolls would insist that the package wasn't a part of Linux. It was just some "incidental piece of code". That's the same crap that you guys pull with WU-FTPD or Apache: "Oh, no! It's not Linux! It's not the OS!" But God help Microsoft when an exploit is found in IIS. "Freaking Windows! Buggy crap! Lousy OS!" See how the game is played? Linux: Deflection. Windows: Body slam.

[Bush2000]

Don't insult him because ...

Or what? You're gonna cry? Tell it to your fellow WTO protestors, college boy.

[BigBobber]

Now THAT'S funny. Thanks.

[sigSEGV]

You asked about kernel vulnerabilities in Windows that you believed didn't exist. I listed some of them.