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The Left and 9/11
The Nation ^ | September 23, 2002 | ADAM SHATZ

Posted on 09/08/2002 3:42:53 PM PDT by adam stevens

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To: adam stevens
I read more than half the article, and its purpose, at least in part, seems to be to give the left a face-saving out of its anti-Americanism enough to support defendending herself, which is a good thing, if it works.

I don't read the nation, as I understand it to be a very far-left publication, so it would seem a good thing that it would even entertain the right of America to defend herself.

There are a lot of New York Leftists that have witnessed the attacks personally and lost friends and family in the attacks. It's a good opportunity to win friends and inflence people.

41 posted on 09/08/2002 4:35:22 PM PDT by Concentrate
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To: Concentrate
defendending = defending

inflence = influence

Sorry about that! Where's that auto-spell-check feature?

42 posted on 09/08/2002 4:39:02 PM PDT by Concentrate
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To: tet68
I never saw the Soviets,

They were, whether you felt it or not.

the Cubans,

I always thought of Castro as funny and was only really leery of the Soviets jerking his strings.

the Sandinistas,

Ugh...But the Contras were no better.

the ANC

Good and bad to be found here.

or the PLO as enemies.

Criminals, gangsters, et all.

43 posted on 09/08/2002 4:39:18 PM PDT by Zeroisanumber
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To: Joe Bonforte
"What the left needs to cultivate is an intelligent synthesis, one that recognizes that the United States has a role to play in the world while also warning of the dangers of an imperial foreign policy."

At least, Adam Shatz got this one right.

The only problem is that he's asking the left to become more like the right -- i.e., to exercise "intelligent synthesis". But, I'm not at all sure they're up to the job.

44 posted on 09/08/2002 4:41:19 PM PDT by okie01
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To: adam stevens
ADAM SHATZ

Boy, you can say that again.

It was all over my monitor for what seemed like the longest darned time, too.

45 posted on 09/08/2002 4:48:01 PM PDT by hellinahandcart
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Comment #46 Removed by Moderator

To: adam stevens
In a way, it's hardly surprising to see the idiot left campaign against the need for this country to retaliate and fight back after 9/11. After all, they have for years tried to deny the right of citizens to defend their homes. Why should it be a surprise that they do not understand the need of a country to defend itself?
47 posted on 09/08/2002 4:52:31 PM PDT by dirtboy
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To: adam stevens
The war's collateral effects now include widespread violations of civil liberties at home

Anyone catch this line? One thing that has remained a constant since 9/11, is the Left's pathetic insistance that an awakening for the need for sensible security measures is equivalent to America automatically becoming a totalitarian police state.

48 posted on 09/08/2002 4:53:16 PM PDT by OldFashionedAmerican
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To: adam stevens
We were just down at "Ground Zero" not four hours ago. It's so strange, really. And we went on the Staten Island Ferry, which I didn't really haven't wanted to do since 9/11, because I thought it would be too terrible. Turns out it was interesting and the downtown skyline is still beautiful, even without the towers.

But I remember going to the top of them. The view was incredible. If you look at pictures of the old skyline, you can see how the Twin Towers were twice as high as all of the surrounding skyscrapers.

What happened on September eleventh, 2001 is something I will never forget.

49 posted on 09/08/2002 4:53:29 PM PDT by Concentrate
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To: adam stevens
"It wasn't Western intervention, it wasn't Western bomber jets...which went and got rid of Khomeini,"

It was the Iraqi army, backed by the US, that kept Khomenei from over-running the Persian Gulf, something he swore he would do.

Never mind that the radical Shiites of Iran are sworn enemies of the Sunni fundamentalists of Al Qaeda.

This a truism that passes for wisdom, but is actually quite overdone.

Iran opposes the Sunni regimes, but Iran's Shia insurgents and the Sunni insurgents in Lebanon and the West Bank manage to agree to both attack Israel. Iran and Iraq and Saudi Arabia all support Arafat, and it was a ship full of weapons from Iran that was seized recently headed for Gaza. Iran opposed the Taliban, and supported the Northern Alliance, but has also provided refuge to Al Qaeda. And has helped to fund Al Qaeda operations.

Hardly had the Taliban collapsed when a new war was declared, a war on terror with a long list of enemies (almost none of them related to Al Qaeda) and no obvious endgame.

The war was only incidentally against the Taliban, in that our real target was Al Qaeda. And who is Al Qaeda? That is the Muslim insurgency funded and managed from Riyadh. Osama Bin Ladin was their titular leader, but his movement was funded by the Saudis, and facilitated by both Iran and Iraq. They were active in Chechnya, Chinese Turkestan, the Phillipines, and Indonesia. Some of their people have recently taken refuge in Georgia, Iran, and Iraq itself.

Look where we are sending our soldiers and it dovetails quite nicely with the list of countries where Al Qaeda is operating.

In other words, Katz is prevaricating.

50 posted on 09/08/2002 5:03:09 PM PDT by marron
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To: adam stevens
Before we went downtown, though, we went to the top of the Empire State Building, which was the first time I'd been there in about 10 years. The view was great! Except for the view of downtown, with the World Trade Center absent, of course.

As far as weather we should attack Iraq or not, I say we'd better have some good intel before we do, but only to make sure they don't already have nukes with ACBM's already. (China?)

Personally, I'm not in the mood to get nuked!

IOW's, TIME IS OF ESSENCE. Better before than after.

51 posted on 09/08/2002 5:06:17 PM PDT by Concentrate
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To: adam stevens
On the other hand, check out this great quote in the article by Leftist-in-name-only (LIMO) Christopher Hitchens. The subject was the moral advisability of using cluster bombs in Afganistan:

"If you're actually certain that you're hitting only a concentration of enemy troops...then it's pretty good because those steel pellets will go straight through somebody and out the other side and through somebody else. And if they're bearing a Koran over their heart, it'll go straight through that, too. So they won't be able to say, 'Ah, I was bearing a Koran over my heart and guess what, the missile stopped halfway through.' No way, 'cause it'll go straight through that as well. They'll be dead, in other words."

52 posted on 09/08/2002 5:10:19 PM PDT by BCrago66
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To: Concentrate
As far as weather we should attack Iraq or not, I say we'd better have some good intel before we do, but only to make sure they don't already have nukes with ACBM's already.

If they are coming for you tomorrow, you must strike today. If they already have a nuke, best strike before they have two.

And remember, it doesn't take a ballistic missile to deliver it. It just takes a cargo ship. Or an airliner. In fact, a ship or a civilian plane is far superior, in that it is very deniable. No one would ever be able to prove who sent it.

53 posted on 09/08/2002 5:11:24 PM PDT by marron
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To: Rome2000
Always EXPOSE DEMOCRATS AS SOCIALISTS!.

I do that as a matter of course in discussing the political parties with others.

When people ask me why I call them socialists I say the democrat party since the mid 60s has been taken over by socialists. They want more people depending on the government economically and socially. They also don't like private property rights, nationalism or strong families which are an impediment to socialism.

One teacher asked me what was wrong with socialism. I said this country was not founded as a socialist society. Our Constitution should be followed as it is a bulwark against socialism, and one of the main reasons for our success as a nation.

A democrat wants people to come here for opportunity and to become an American. Socialists want people to come here for handouts and medical benefits and keep there foreign culture intact so they won't become Americans. And to use their US citizenship to weaken this country by voting themselves someone elses money to further the socialist and global agenda. - Tom

54 posted on 09/08/2002 5:14:36 PM PDT by Capt. Tom
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To: adam stevens
I never saw the Soviets, the Cubans, the Sandinistas, the ANC or the PLO as enemies. Al Qaeda is another matter altogether.

In other words, any kind of mass murder and terrorism as long as it is for the glorious communist cause. What sick puppies without any moral compass these leftists are!

55 posted on 09/08/2002 5:25:13 PM PDT by Unam Sanctam
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To: adam stevens
"Everyone--Americans and those people who are the objects of their efforts--would be far better off if the United States did nothing, closed its bases overseas, withdrew its fleets everywhere and allowed the rest of the world to find its own way without American weapons and troops."

I can't argue with this at all. I am totally against shedding American blood trying to get the children to play nice.

56 posted on 09/08/2002 5:26:13 PM PDT by Skwidd
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To: anniegetyourgun
Wow you made it all the way through? KUDOS!
I got about halfway and started to fall asleep.
58 posted on 09/08/2002 5:42:56 PM PDT by Valin
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To: ArcLight
BUMP!
59 posted on 09/08/2002 6:00:50 PM PDT by adam stevens
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To: Concentrate
Don't you figure that by now they would have either joined us or cast their lost with the other traitors. I for one was something of a liberal before September 11 but that changed my view completely.
60 posted on 09/08/2002 6:02:35 PM PDT by adam stevens
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