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I have never felt more proud or more alone (pro-Israel demonstrator gets spat on......BY ANTI NAZIS)
Washington Jewish Week ^ | August 24, 2002 | Sarah Kopelovich

Posted on 09/10/2002 3:41:31 PM PDT by zapiks44

In 2002, 60 years after the Holocaust, a Jewish girl cannot go out to an anti-neo-Nazi rally and hold up the Israeli flag.

The past two years have been a perplexing time to be a young "liberal" Jew in America. As an Israeli American, I have often been required to defend Israel from her liberal detractors. An epidemic is crossing our nation's campuses, as confused college kids are lumping together the American civil rights movement with the anti-apartheid movement with the Palestinian independence movement.

Encouraged by groups like the Nation of Islam, black pride slogans have been appropriated for Palestinian protests and the language of Malcolm X has been subverted to serve the adherents of Yasser Arafat.

This has been particularly disturbing to me, as I have been extensively involved with attempts to heal the breach between the Jewish and African American communities.

During these troubling times, I remain proud of my Jewish heritage. During a mission trip to Israel with the International Hillel Organization, I learned that there are no absolutes in politics just as there are no absolutes in life. My sense of Israeli and Jewish identity was rekindled as I began to realize, together with my Jewish brethren in our homeland, that no matter how I or anyone else feels about the current actions of the Israeli government, the Israeli nation has the right to exist in its current form, as a homeland for Jews. I rediscovered that as an Israeli American, I could always hold my head up high. And I do.

Today I sojourned to the U.S. Capitol to join the counter-rally against a neo-Nazi demonstration. As I watched the neo-Nazis approach the south Capitol lawn, my ears were pelted with offensive slogans and vile rhetoric.

How can I describe my feelings as I watched them pass, with their swastikas, Aryan banners, anti-Israel posters and crossed out stars of David?

To these Nazi sympathizers, who applaud the victimization of minorities, of Jews, who extol the brutal slaughter of 12 million people including whole branches of my family tree, to them I wanted to sing out, "I AM A JEW! I AM AN ISRAELI AMERICAN! NOW IT IS YOU THAT ARE IN THE MINORITY. WE ARE STRONG AND WE ARE HERE FOREVER!"

Unfurling a blue and white Israeli flag, I walked briskly and purposefully toward the gathering of anti-Nazi protesters. Watching 300 neo-Nazis with their strident rhetoric, I felt small, isolated and helpless.

As I walked toward my compatriots, my fellow protesters, I felt more empowered with each step. These were people who believed as I did, rational tolerant people whose personal morality impelled them to stand together and denunciate hatred and intolerance. They would stand with me, protest with me, and perhaps attempt to educate -- with me.

Or so I thought.

As I walked deeper and deeper through the crowd of protesters, waving the Israeli flag high and proud above my head, I began to feel less and less welcome. I marched on, waving the flag even higher so each and every neo-Nazi could see the flag of the Jewish people.

Suddenly I realized that the cries and jeers at the sight of the flag, originated not from the neo-Nazis, but from the anti-Nazi protesters.

I continued through the crowd and tried hard to ignore the glares. Inevitably, I was confronted. Abusive, although not unfamiliar words assaulted me at first: "Israel is fascist!" "Zionism is racism!" An old woman with a sweet face screamed at me, "You are a Nazi!" she cried. What had started out as a protest against racism quickly turned into a forum of hatred and fanaticism. I and the flag I held were their targets.

What could I do? Would I turn around? Could I let them disrespect this symbol of my people, and retreat in fear? I held my flag even higher. And I attempted, among the threats, the jostling and chaotic vehemence, to reason.

"I am not the enemy! The enemy is right across the street. Please, let's share this common ground and fight together!"

Despite my intense rage, I stayed true to my nonviolent beliefs and fought her and the crowd that had begun to form around me, with my words.

The crowd of anti-Nazi protesters did not have the same nonviolent ideology. I was spat upon. I was physically and verbally threatened. Grown men accosted me and tried to rip the Israeli flag out of my hands. Several were very close to actually assaulting me. Police intervened and blocked the anti-Nazi protesters from approaching me. These were supposed to be the good guys, and yet the hatred they exuded was just as potent as that of the Nazis themselves.

When a police officer told me that I should leave for my own safety, I staunchly refused. With every shout, hiss, slur and threat, the Israeli flag stood higher in my hands. Blocking out all the defamatory statements about Israel, I stood at the forefront of the protesters and held up that flag as much for them to see as for the neo-Nazis.

I have never felt more proud or more alone in my entire life.

Eventually, I was made to relinquish the flag to its owner, who wanted to leave.

I didn't want to go and give them the satisfaction of my defeat, but I have never been so disgusted with humanity, and wanted to be as far away from these "champions of humanitarianism" as possible.

I wanted to show them the hypocrisy of fighting fascism by tearing down a flag and telling someone she does not have the right to be there because of her heritage. I wanted to give them glasses that would correct the myopic vision with which they saw as complex a situation as the Israeli-Palestinian conflict as one so clear cut and categorically absolute.

But all I could do was ask them, "Why are you doing this?" "Why are you doing this?" With all of the research I've done on the conflict, for all my convictions, all I could say was "Why are you doing this?"

I must admit that I, like many young Jews and Zionists my age, feel betrayed by American liberals. With regards to the Middle East, there seems to be no appreciation of the moral ambiguity, the political nuances, the multiple layers of media spin. Faced with such a complex situation, young people too often ask others to chew it, swallow it and digest it for them, and then tell them in absolute terms which side is most appropriate to their general belief structure.

Are you in favor of affirmative action? Are you for civil liberties and women's rights? Why, then, you must be pro-Palestinian! Anti-Globalization? Humanitarian? Pro- Palestinian! Ever voted Democratic/ Libertarian/Socialist or even abstained from voting for a Republican? Then Palestine is the side for you!

Strongly held political views in no way justify acting in such a callous and hateful way toward a fellow human being. With their blind hatred of Israel, these anti-Nazi protesters treated me as roughly as the neo-Nazis on the other side of the partition would have, had they but had the opportunity.

Today, I held my head -- and the Israeli flag -- up high; not in Israel, but in what I had previously considered to be a safe environment. For what better place to applaud the existence of a state for Jews than at a Neo-Nazi counter-rally on Capitol Hill?

I was sadly mistaken. As I went out to face the neo-Nazi demonstration, I found myself hated, both by the neo-Nazis and by those who were there to protest against them. I found myself alone in the middle. And for the first time in my life as an American, I truly understood the crushing impact of anti-Semitism.

In a very palpable way, I was an outsider, hated by everyone. With rabid anti-Semites on one side and anti-Israel fomenters on the other, surrounded by bystanders willing to do nothing as I suffered horrid abuse, I wept É and as Jews must do in this post-Holocaust world, I stood my ground. Truth.

A District resident, Sarah Kopelovich, 21, is a senior at George Washington University.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Free Republic; Government; News/Current Events; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: antinazi; freespeech; israel; jews; left; neonazi; tolerance
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To: faintpraise
Yes! Israel should stop trying to crush the Palestinians and get the hell out of the occupied territories. It should also end all forms of discrimination against Palestinians and welcome all Palestinian refugees who wish to return to Israel. Under those conditions, it wouldn't be hard for Israel to make peace with the Palestinians.

Like most apologists you confuse peace with submission. Your solution is the dissolution of Israel.
101 posted on 09/11/2002 10:36:26 AM PDT by rmlew
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To: faintpraise
Yes! Israel should stop trying to crush the Palestinians and get the hell out of the occupied territories.

Check. Taking faintpraise out of the "land for peace" category and puting you into the "land for murder" category with Arafat and Osama.

Now, with the Jews taken care of, how should America capitulate to those murdered our innocents? Can we manage to match your plan for Israel; i.e., bring a final end to our representative democracy and ensure the eminent imposition of sharia law?

102 posted on 09/11/2002 10:39:06 AM PDT by Stultis
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To: quebecois
Tragically, many Jews have been playing a double game for many decades now. They have been relentless in attacking an destroying any manifestation of group identity amongst non-Jewish white people. The main strategy has been to ally with various non-white racial groups and propagate the idea that any such manifestation of white group identity is the equivalent of racism and Nazism.

Yep. It is an action based in fear by most and hatred by a few.

Meanwhile, they have been equally relentless in supporting a nation that is founded on the very same group-based identity that they have found so horrible in other whites.
While it is wrong to do so, some perspective is needed. In Europe, nationalism was almost universally tied in with viruelent if not violent anti-Semetism.

Should Israel have a Jewish star on its flag? If so...would she accept a cross on the US flag? (nope...it would make her feel like an outsider)
Bad analogy. The defining characteristic of Americans is not Christianity. If it were, how would we be differnt than European countries? We are A Christian nation, not the Chrsitian nation.
Israel is THE ONLY Jewish nation.

Should Israel bar immigration by anyone who isn't Jewish? If so....why shouldn't France or the UK only allow French and English descended people to immigrate? (nope....that would be 'racist')
Sounds like a good proposal to me.

Now...this same universalistic ideology is being applied to Jews.
Nothing new. Read "On the Jewish Question" by Marx.

I'm sorry if I sound a little cynical...but she's only upset that this stuff is being thrown her way for the first time. If this anti-Israel stuff blew over tomorrow...she'd be back on the anti-white political bandwagon in a NY minute.
She may or may not. However, many people do grow up after being mugged.

103 posted on 09/11/2002 10:45:39 AM PDT by rmlew
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To: rmlew
It also runs Paul Gottfried who is... Jewish.

Jewish or not doesn't really have anything to do with it. There's actually quite a few Jews I would characterize as anti-semites. Quite regardless of Gottfried's race, religion or political views.

Posting a single anti-Semite does not make them anti-Semetic.

No. But posting a single high-profile and rabid antisemite makes them lean that way, and it also makes them a "natural resource" for people of like mind. It very clearly makes them not "mainstream". And when you find VDARE grouped together with other sites that seems obsessed with race, a few bells goes off.

104 posted on 09/11/2002 10:45:50 AM PDT by Cachelot
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To: Phillip Augustus
I hope you are right. I know that Belgium is already 10% Muslim. France is 6%, as is our neighbor to the north, Canada. Though a small minority, this could explain Canada's disgraceful lack of vocal support for us. They did send troops, who were/are magnificent and thank G-d Canada still has people who share our values.
105 posted on 09/11/2002 11:01:05 AM PDT by Inkie
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To: faintpraise
Yes, of course. Like those wonderful Palestinians who were trying to make peace with the Israelis BEFORE 1967 and the so-called occupation of the territories. In those days, the West Bank belonged to Jorden and Gaza belonged to Israel. (In fact, Israel tried to give the WB back to Jordan and they rejected it!)

So, since this is the not-so-ancient history, what, then, is your excuse for Arab/Palestinian attacks on Israel from 1948-1967? Even before that, Arabs were attacking Jews who lived there. This despite the fact that the Jews had established habitable, economically vibrant centers out of nothing. That is when the majority of Arabs came to these places -- after the Jews had done all the hard work. Before that, they had no interest -- there was nothing there but sand, as has been documented by visitors at the time (one notable one by Mark Twain) -- sand that no one gave a hoot about.

106 posted on 09/11/2002 11:09:50 AM PDT by Inkie
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To: Inkie
For your edification:

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Quoting Mark Twain out of context on Palestine

Posted on MAY-23-2002

The quote below (from "The Innocent Abroad" by Mark Twain depicting his journey to Lebanon, Syria, and the Holy Land in 1867) has been widely circulated in Israeli text books and media outlets as facts about Palestine in the mid-19th century. As we will conclusively prove below, this quote has purposely taken out of context for the sole purpose of deceiving its readers into thinking that Palestine was empty, destitute, and barren desert, of course until Zionist Jews "made" its desert bloom. Mark Twain wrote:

"..... A desolate country whose soil is rich enough, but is given over wholly to weeds... a silent mournful expanse.... a desolation.... we never saw a human being on the whole route.... hardly a tree or shrub anywhere. Even the olive tree and the cactus, those fast friends of a worthless soil, had almost deserted the country." (Mark Twain, p. 361-362) 

Before analyzing what Mark Twain wrote, the following facts should be noted:

It is not only that Mark Twain described Palestine as barren desert, he extended this description to Greece, Lebanon, and Syria. He stated:

"From Athens all through the islands of the Grecian Archipelago, we saw little but forbidden sea-walls and barren hills, sometimes surmounted by three or four graceful columns of some ancient temples, lonely and deserted---a fitting symbol of desolation that has come upon all Greece in these latter ages. We saw no plowed fields, very few villages, no trees or grass or vegetation of any kind, scarcely, and hardly ever an isolated house. Greece is a bleak, unsmiling desert, without agriculture, manufactures, or commerce, apparently." (Mark Twain, p. 203) 

"Damascus is beautiful from the mountain. It is beautiful even to foreigners accustomed to luxuriant vegetation, and I can easily understand how unspeakably beautiful it must be to eyes that are only used to the God-forsaken barrenness and desolation of Syria. I should think a Syrian would go wild with ecstasy when such a picture bursts upon him for the first time." (Mark Twain, p. 262) 

From the above quote, the reader may get the impression that Greece is empty since he stated: "We saw no plowed fields, very few villages, no trees or grass or vegetation of any kind," on the other hand, he contradict himself on the same page, he stated:

"The nation numbers only eight hundred thousand souls." (Mark Twain, p. 203)

By any standard, it is really surprising how Mark Twain described the St. Sophia Church (which was converted to a mosque by the Ottomans), one of the the architectural marvels of the old and the new world, he described the church as:

"I do not think much of the Mosque of St. Sophia. I suppose I lack appreciation. We will let it go at that. It is the rustiest old barn in heathendom. I believe all the interest that attaches to it comes from the fact that it was built for a Christian church and then turned into a mosque, without much alteration, by the Mohammedan conquerors of the land." (Mark Twain, p. 208) 

Regarding the Muslim Ottomans, Greeks, and Armenians and their Capital, he had the following racist remarks:

"[In Constantinople,] Mosques are plenty, churches are plenty, graveyards are plenty, but moral and whisky are scarce. The Koran does not permit Mohammedans to drink. Their natural instinct do not permit them to be moral. They say the Sultan has eight hundred wives. This almost amount to bigamy. It makes our cheeks burn with shame to see such a thing permitted here in Turkey. We do not mind to see such thing in Salt Lake, however." (Mark Twain, p. 210-211)

"Greek, Turkish, and Armenian morals consist only in attending church regularly on the appointed Sabbath, and in breaking the ten commandments all the balance of the week. It comes natural to them to lie and cheat in the first place, and then they go on and improve on nature until they arrive at perfection." (Mark Twain, p. 212)

"Everybody lies and cheats----everybody who is in business, at any rate. Even foreigners soon have to come down to the custom of the country, and they do not buy and sell long in Constantinople till they lie and cheat like a Greek. I say like a Greek, because Greeks are called the worst transgressors in this line." (Mark Twain, p. 212)

"....I never dislike a Chinaman as I do these Turks and Arabs, and, when Russia is ready to war with them again, I hope England and France will not find it good breeding or good judgment to interfere." (Mark Twain, p. 268) 

Mark Twain accurately described the Ottoman tax collection and its impact in Syria, Lebanon, and Palestine, he stated:

"The Syrians are very poor, and yet they are ground down by a system of taxation that would drive any other nation frantic. Last year their taxes were heavy enough, in all conscience----but this year they have been increased by the addition of taxes that were forgiven them in times of famine in former years." (Mark Twain, p. 256-257)

As Mark Twain entered Nablus and Jaffa cities, he stated:

"The narrow canyon in which Nablous, or Shechem, is situated, in under high cultivation, and the soil is exceedingly black and fertile. It is well watered, and its affluent vegetation gains effect by contrast with the barren hills that tower on either side." (Mark Twain, p. 322)

"We came finally to the noble grove of orange trees in which the Oriental city of Jaffa lied buried." (Mark Twain, p. 360)

 

Conclusion

Mark Twain is a renowned American author whose contribution to American literature is immense. On the other hand, what he wrote is filled with dangerous stereotypes, emotions, and in many cases contradictions. So it is dangerous and misleading to quote him and make him an authority of the region solely based on the description of his trip. Israeli and  Zionist propagandists are the best of spinning the facts to their advantage, and quoting Mark Twain out of context is classic in this matter.

 

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107 posted on 09/11/2002 11:48:22 AM PDT by faintpraise
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To: zapiks44
I must admit that I, like many young Jews and Zionists my age, feel betrayed by American liberals.

You are most welcome to join the Republican Party, young lady. You would find a warm and congenial welcome for your views there.

Of course, monkeys will fly out of my butt before any significant number of Jews give up their love of socialist statism.

-ccm

108 posted on 09/11/2002 12:17:30 PM PDT by ccmay
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To: zapiks44
This has to be one of the most touching things I've ever read. Perhaps there is hope for America's universities. This girl deserves an award.

Why? If she was a "republican" she would vote for anti-gun RINOs and maybe with more of these liberal zionists we would see the republicans getting a nod for the NAACP but not because the NAACP has changed it is because republicans have. Liberal jews should stay in the democrat party. I do not want more RINOs in the republican party to the point that conservatives become the RINOs. This girl is right when it comes to Isreal but dead wrong on everything else she believes in.
109 posted on 09/11/2002 12:25:38 PM PDT by Brush_Your_Teeth
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To: Cachelot
Sam Francis is one of many correspondents who write for VDARE. Sam Francis is not particularly pro-Israel, a position consistent with mainstream conservatism, given that he is neutral as opposed to pro-Arab, but I realize that a position which is not expressly pro-Israel frequently lends itself to accusations of anti-semitism. Even with that in mind, what other correspondents who write reguarly for VDARE would you deem anti-semetic?
110 posted on 09/11/2002 1:34:01 PM PDT by Phillip Augustus
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To: rmlew
Good point, I didn't think of Gottfried in my response, who is one of the best thinkers and writers on the site.
111 posted on 09/11/2002 1:35:39 PM PDT by Phillip Augustus
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To: zapiks44
I must admit that I, like many young Jews and Zionists my age, feel betrayed by American liberals.

I'd like to give this girl a hug and then tell her "No dear. You were not betrayed by American liberals. What few liberals remain in this country are for the most part over 80 years old. They weren't at that rally. The crowd you mistakenly walked into were hard leftists who are no damn different than the neo-Nazi's across the street. Both only survive on hate and fear."

112 posted on 09/11/2002 2:10:13 PM PDT by Ditto
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To: faintpraise
This proves absolutely nothing. It is all deconstructionist interpretation vs an eye-witness account. There is no further context offered here, just additional information that more or less confirms the state of that part of the world at the time. Why is it racist to observe that a culture condones polygamy, lying and cheating? This is well known about that culture. A man's word is never his bond -- it is almost always who will pay the most bribes. The rule of the war lords is still in vogue. Arafat is the biggest, most corrupt war lord of them all. Calling Twain a racist is a tactic of the postmodernists. His words are not evidence of anything but his own observations and the way things were expressed in those pre-PC days.

As for who made what into a garden, just look at the Arab countries, with all their natural resources (oil) and compare them with Israel, with her little patch of sand.

Cutting and pasting a bunch of commentary from a pro-Palestinian website hardly qualifies for unbiased reportage.

113 posted on 09/11/2002 2:10:40 PM PDT by Inkie
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To: zapiks44
Poor little fool. She applauds the the "civil rights movement" which abolished the right of private property in the US. She applauds the "anti-apartheid movement" which handed over the government of South Africa to thugs and savages. Then she wonders why Israel should be spared?

She applauds the victory of barbarism in two instances, and then flip-flops and supports civilization only when her own kind is threatened?

The left opposes Israel because it is a civilized nation, just like the Old South, just like Afrikaaner South Africa, just like Rhodesia.

I pray that Israel survives and I pray that more young leftists like this realize that it is the left, and not a pathetic collection of neoNazi hobbyists living in their moms' basements, which presents the real threat.

114 posted on 09/11/2002 2:13:38 PM PDT by wideawake
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts
How did the Holocaust of 6 million people get to be a Holocaust of 12 million?

Add in all the Poles, Serbs, Roma, Russians and a dozen other "non Arian" nationalities snuffed by the Nazis, and the total is 12 million. The Jews were their primary target, but not their only target.

115 posted on 09/11/2002 2:20:11 PM PDT by Ditto
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To: Phillip Augustus
Sam Francis is one of many correspondents who write for VDARE

True. But his articles seem to make up a great deal of the recent writings on the site, don't they?

Sam Francis is not particularly pro-Israel

Sam Francis is a racist nut, who was fired for trying to turn the paper he wrote for into a vehicle for his racialist agenda. He's a darling of such luminaries as John "Birdman" Bryant, which should tell you a little something if you're not perfectly aware already.

So Francis is basically bad news, not that different from another well-known scumball by name of Willis Carto. And recently he had to close his forum because he feared that the elements he had attracted might actually land him in legal trouble, which was understandable seeing as they liked to post stuff that looked very much like planning and inciting violent attacks against Jews, blacks and hispanics.

And he has a central position at VDARE. Let's just stick with him for a while, shall we?

116 posted on 09/11/2002 2:41:34 PM PDT by Cachelot
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To: Cachelot
Jewish or not doesn't really have anything to do with it. There's actually quite a few Jews I would characterize as anti-semites. Quite regardless of Gottfried's race, religion or political views.
I wouldn't call Gottfried self hating. Neither would I call Dan Stein such. Since I contributed to articles published on VDARE, I suppose I will also have to assert that I am not a self hating Jew, even if I am at odds with much of the community.

No. But posting a single high-profile and rabid antisemite makes them lean that way, and it also makes them a "natural resource" for people of like mind. It very clearly makes them not "mainstream". And when you find VDARE grouped together with other sites that seems obsessed with race, a few bells goes off.
Does the same hold true for Townhall.com which links to Sam Francis?
The anti-semetism by association routine doesn't hold water.

As for obsession with race, what is wrong with this? Name one non-self-hating Jewish site that isn't?

117 posted on 09/11/2002 2:50:34 PM PDT by rmlew
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To: Ditto
There were only two ethnic groups targeted for destruction by the Nazis :Jews and Roma (Gypsies).
The Nazis planned to thin the population of Slavic peoples and turn them into slaves. This is a real distinction, but of little consequence to those murdered. However, when talking about the Holocaust this differnece is important. I would also note that he Nazis never really got arround to depopulating the east in any serious manner. Had they won the war, things would be quite different.
118 posted on 09/11/2002 2:57:26 PM PDT by rmlew
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To: faintpraise
Cute site.
Wheer are teh sections on the Arab state in 70% of PAlestine, Jordan?
Where is the section noting the complete ethnic cleansing of Jews from Jordan after 1923? Where are teh sections noting cleansing of Jews from Arab occupied areas? Where is the section on the Hebron massacre? Where is the section noting that 3/4 of million Jews were expelled from Arab countries?
119 posted on 09/11/2002 3:00:48 PM PDT by rmlew
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To: rmlew
This is a real distinction, but of little consequence to those murdered.

Understatement of the week.

You are correct of course, but it is important for people to understand that other nationalities also suffered greatly under Hitler, albeit, on a smaller percentage basis than the Jews.

120 posted on 09/11/2002 3:07:11 PM PDT by Ditto
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To: Ditto
My family had the misfortune of being there. Between the Nazis and Communists, the partisans, and genocide, ethnic tensions were commonly settled by force and terror. Mass murder, rape, and starvation were common under the cloak of the war and the political agendas of the Nazis and Soviets. (Not to mention the puppet regimes.)
121 posted on 09/11/2002 3:36:05 PM PDT by rmlew
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To: rmlew
I can't even imagine the hell that must have been.
122 posted on 09/11/2002 3:39:24 PM PDT by Ditto
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To: Cachelot
Hmmm. I doubt anyone will be convinced based on what you say about it, or what I say about it. I would simply urge everyone curious to check out the site and decide for himself. www.vdare.com
123 posted on 09/11/2002 4:59:00 PM PDT by Phillip Augustus
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Bump for later read.
124 posted on 09/11/2002 5:05:28 PM PDT by dpa5923
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To: zapiks44
Sarah Kopelovich says:   " Suddenly I realized that the cries and jeers at the sight of the flag, originated not from the neo-Nazis, but from the anti-Nazi protesters. "

And:   " The crowd of anti-Nazi protesters did not have the same nonviolent ideology. I was spat upon. I was physically and verbally threatened. "

Oh how painful it can be when we first awake from the phony leftist utopian dream and have to confront reality in broad daylight. You've taken your first shaky step back to reality, Sarah, but judging from the rest of your article, you've still got a VERY long way to go.

Sarah says:   " During a mission trip to Israel with the International Hillel Organization, I learned that there are no absolutes in politics just as there are no absolutes in life. "

That's your next step, Sarah. It won't be easy. Pray that you don't learn it after Israel has already been trampled under the jack boot of Palestinian hatred and terrorism.

Youth is truly wasted on the young.

Regards,

Boot Hill

125 posted on 09/11/2002 5:13:29 PM PDT by Boot Hill
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To: zapiks44
One more suggestion Sarah. Take your article to your grandfather and show him the line where you write: "Why are you doing this? Why are you doing this?" and ask him if he has ever heard that cry before. He will look at you in shock and disbelief and whisper: "Auschwitz".

Regards,

Boot Hill

126 posted on 09/11/2002 5:22:14 PM PDT by Boot Hill
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To: Phillip Augustus; FreedomFriend; quebecois; Ohioan; rmlew; junta; Joe Hadenuf; WRhine
I'll boldface it in case anyone missed it:

www.vdare.com

127 posted on 09/11/2002 5:32:18 PM PDT by Phillip Augustus
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To: rmlew
I wouldn't call Gottfried self hating. Neither would I call Dan Stein such.

What I would call an anti-semitic Jew would be, for example, a Jewish anti-zionist. I'm fairly convinced that antizionism equals antisemitism.

Does the same hold true for Townhall.com which links to Sam Francis? The anti-semetism by association routine doesn't hold water.

I don't think, really, an odd link is much of an indicator. But if you look at a site where most of the links are to sites that have racism as an overwhelming theme, you have a pretty good idea.

Name one non-self-hating Jewish site that isn't?

Actually, most of those seem not to be overly concerned with race. More like concerned with a cultural identity and religious identity. Which makes perfect sense when you consider that Jews come in all kinds of colours and shapes :).

128 posted on 09/11/2002 5:38:47 PM PDT by Cachelot
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To: Cachelot
I wrote:
"I wouldn't call Gottfried self hating. Neither would I call Dan Stein such."

Cachelot responded.
What I would call an anti-semitic Jew would be, for example, a Jewish anti-zionist. I'm fairly convinced that antizionism equals antisemitism.

There are religious Jews who believe that any state before the comming of the Messiah is illegitimate. They are hardly self-hating.
Those Jews who reject the idea of a Jewish state are self-hating.

"Does the same hold true for Townhall.com which links to Sam Francis? The anti-semetism by association routine doesn't hold water."

I don't think, really, an odd link is much of an indicator. But if you look at a site where most of the links are to sites that have racism as an overwhelming theme, you have a pretty good idea.

1. Francis is a columnist linked to by Townhall.com as is another even more viscious anti-Semite and Holocaust Revisionist, Joe Sobran.
2. How is VDare.com racist? Because it cares about the ethnic make-up and Heritage of America?

"Name one non-self-hating Jewish site that isn't?"

Actually, most of those seem not to be overly concerned with race. More like concerned with a cultural identity and religious identity. Which makes perfect sense when you consider that Jews come in all kinds of colours and shapes :).
Jews think of themselves as a race. Whether we call ourselves a Jew (from the tribe of Judah or the nation of Judea) or Israelite (a descendant of Jacob {racial progenator} and a nation).
Read the Bible. Jews/B'nei Yisrael are a nation defined by blood and belief and thus a people.
Cultrual Identity and Religious identity are characteristics of the race.

At any rate, how can you support the right of Jews to have a country with a defined racial or religious/cultural core and not Americans?

129 posted on 09/11/2002 6:48:53 PM PDT by rmlew
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To: zapiks44
Yeah, let's give her an award.

I was really touched by her whining about the holy words of Malcolm X being subverted to serve the adherents of Yassir Arafat. Screw her.

130 posted on 09/11/2002 6:51:30 PM PDT by Phillip Augustus
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To: What Is Ain't
Sure she is. She is a fan of Malcolm X and feels angry that his words have been "subverted" for the cause of Arafat.
131 posted on 09/11/2002 6:54:29 PM PDT by Phillip Augustus
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To: rmlew
Those Jews who reject the idea of a Jewish state are self-hating.

That was what I said, no?

2. How is VDare.com racist? Because it cares about the ethnic make-up and Heritage of America?

You're not paying attention. I said that if VDARE places a rabid racist in a position of prominence (which he has if half the articles linked on the front page are his, for example), they are leaning in that direction and places themselves as an excellent tool for people who are, undeniably, racists. But the main thing is that they are then definitely not "mainstream".

Jews think of themselves as a race.

Some / many / most / Jews may do so. So what? That doesn't make it a fact :).

Cultrual Identity and Religious identity are characteristics of the race.

So a black Jew, a white Jew and an Indian Jew are of the same race? Not, I'm afraid.

At any rate, how can you support the right of Jews to have a country with a defined racial or religious/cultural core and not Americans?

Bah. America always were mixed nuts, at least once the nuts started getting in. And if you'd want to reserve America for a "racial core", it would be the American Indians, wouldn't it? And as I said, Jews are not a race - a certain POV doesn't make that true. So America may be a cultural unit to a large degree, and Israel too. None of them are racial units, nor should you really want them to be.

132 posted on 09/11/2002 7:26:22 PM PDT by Cachelot
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To: Cachelot
I wrote:
"Those Jews who reject the idea of a Jewish state are self-hating."

Cachelot responded:
That was what I said, no?
You called all anti-Zionist Jews self hating.
I don't consider the sects who believe that without the Messia there should be no Israel to be self hating. They are followinbg a tradition.
I do believe that the institutionalised teachings forced upon them by the Roman court Rabbis after the Bar Kochba revolt.

"2. How is VDare.com racist? Because it cares about the ethnic make-up and Heritage of America?"

You're not paying attention. I said that if VDARE places a rabid racist in a position of prominence (which he has if half the articles linked on the front page are his, for example), they are leaning in that direction and places themselves as an excellent tool for people who are, undeniably, racists. But the main thing is that they are then definitely not "mainstream".
They are not mainstreme. The American people want immigration reform and the media will not allow its discussion.

"Jews think of themselves as a race."
Some / many / most / Jews may do so. So what? That doesn't make it a fact :).

1. Most sociologists will tell you that race is a social construct. (I don't buy this). If so, then Jews, who consider themsevles a race and are considered a race, are a race.
2. Jews from all over the world really do share a lot more genetic code than most think.
http://www.aish.com/societywork/sciencenature/Jewish_Genes.asp
It seems to me that Jews are a race.


"At any rate, how can you support the right of Jews to have a country with a defined racial or religious/cultural core and not Americans?"

Bah. America always were mixed nuts, at least once the nuts started getting in. And if you'd want to reserve America for a "racial core", it would be the American Indians, wouldn't it? And as I said, Jews are not a race - a certain POV doesn't make that true. So America may be a cultural unit to a large degree, and Israel too. None of them are racial units, nor should you really want them to be.

American Indians are anything but the ethnic core. This was not thier country. They were subjects of the various Indian Nations. They were not citizens. We took their land.
The central core is the white, mostly British, populace at the founding, who make up 1/3 of Americans. They set up the polity and are what everyone else is supposed to assimilate to.

If you think Israel doesn't have a racial core, let in 3 million Arabs (who you think Sephardim and Mizrahim resemble) and see what happens.)

Race doesn't define culture, but heritage does to a large degree. Importing people of different heritages is destroying our cultural unity.

133 posted on 09/11/2002 10:12:35 PM PDT by rmlew
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To: faintpraise
"Israel would deny most of them citizenship simply because they aren't Jewish."

Although Jews receive automatic rights to citizenship non-Jews 18 years of age or older may acquire Israeli nationality by naturalization subject to a number of requirements, such as:

they must have resided in Israel for three years out of the five years preceding the day of submission of the application.

they are entitled to reside in Israel permanently and have settled or intend to settle in Israel;

they have renounced their prior nationality, or have proved that they will cease to be foreign nationals upon becoming Israeli citizens. The Minister of the Interior may exempt an applicant from some of these requirements..

See here.

Seems no more stringent than most countries including the USA.

134 posted on 09/12/2002 1:17:29 AM PDT by anapikoros
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To: Michael.SF.
see #134
135 posted on 09/12/2002 1:20:22 AM PDT by anapikoros
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To: Phillip Augustus
Hmmm. I doubt anyone will be convinced based on what you say about it, or what I say about it. I would simply urge everyone curious to check out the site and decide for himself. www.vdare.com

Been there, done that. It's in my favorites in two different folders: "Immigration - Anti" and "Politics - Extremist - Xenophobia & Racism".

136 posted on 09/12/2002 2:28:47 AM PDT by Stultis
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To: rmlew
I don't consider the sects who believe that without the Messia there should be no Israel to be self hating

So, let's experiment a little. If such a sect should side with Arafat and declare that yes, Israel should cease to exist and the Jews should accept whatever he wished to visit upon them, they would be "non-self-hating"? (I prefer the term antisemites, actually - it carries the correct associations, which is no doubt why the neonazis are quite keen to get rid of it).

They are not mainstreme. The American people want immigration reform and the media will not allow its discussion.

Sorry. I meant mainstream in the sense of representing most Americans. Sam Francis is certainly not mainstream in that sense, and he seems to make up a great part of that site, and so the site is not representative for the views of most Americans. I can go on explaining this to the micro level, of course. It'll take time.

1. Most sociologists will tell you that race is a social construct. (I don't buy this). If so, then Jews, who consider themsevles a race and are considered a race, are a race.

So the argument is bogus, and you admit it's bogus. Yet you still lean on it.

2. Jews from all over the world really do share a lot more genetic code than most think.

So many Jews share some genetic code. And that has what to do with race? Genetic code will tell you a few things about bloodlines - family type of stuff. A genetic marker doesn't necessarily signify a racial characteristic. Another bogus argument.

Now consider this: if I were to convert to Judaism, I would be a Jew. That single fact alone renders your whole "racial platform" null and void. There are things that are sort of special about the Jews as a people, but race doesn't enter into it.

A piece of advice for you: if you absolutely must debate racial questions, it behooves you to get a grip on what race is.

American Indians are anything but the ethnic core. This was not thier country. They were subjects of the various Indian Nations. They were not citizens. We took their land.

This is senseless and ridiculous.

The central core is the white, mostly British, populace at the founding, who make up 1/3 of Americans. They set up the polity and are what everyone else is supposed to assimilate to.

And so is this.

If you think Israel doesn't have a racial core, let in 3 million Arabs (who you think Sephardim and Mizrahim resemble)

Where, exactly, did I mention Sephardim and Mizrahim? Seems you are running a parallel argument somewhere else, with someone else. Are you? And what exactly is that supposed to mean anyway? There are Arabs in Israel. Not to mention Black Jews and Asian Jews ;).

137 posted on 09/12/2002 6:25:38 AM PDT by Cachelot
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To: anapikoros
Quoting from the link:

Israel's Nationality Law relates to persons born in Israel or resident therein, as well as to those wishing to settle in the country, regardless of race, religion, creed, sex or political belief. Citizenship may be acquired by: Birth,The Law of Return Residence, Naturalization, Acquisition of Nationality by Birth is granted to:

Thanks for the information, which confirms what I previously stated. There is much misinformation regarding Israel and it being a "Jewish" state. Yes, it was founded on the basis of establishing a homeland for all Jews who wish to come there, but it also welcomes others, as long as they abid by the laws. To bad the USA does not have the same standard regarding immigration

138 posted on 09/12/2002 7:44:00 AM PDT by Michael.SF.
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To: Cachelot
I honestly don't know who LarryLied is or was, but I did appreciate the post that observed that the author of this piece was hoisted on her own petard.

I know that it is considered anti-Semitic to point out that American Jews are finding themselves in a bit of a pickle. On the one hand, they tend to fervently promote the idea that humans should all be fungible creatures with no ties to each other by blood or by soil—anything else is racist and diabolical. And yet, as Jews they reserve the right to refer to themselves as a people apart, with a distinct identity and a homeland that they defend on the basis of ethnicity. This is obviously contradictory, which is why the author finds herself being attacked by her friends on the left. Anyone could have seen this coming, and while I feel for her, I am not surprised that she experienced what she experienced.

139 posted on 09/12/2002 7:45:29 AM PDT by Under the Radar
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To: faintpraise
So which Arab countries permit the free immigration of Jews, or Palestinians for that matter? Which Arab countries permit Christians to openly practice their religion? In the late 1940's and early 1950's Syria, Iraq, Iran, Jordan and Egypt strip nearly 750,000 Jews of their possessions and forced them out. Most went to Israel as no other counrty was willing to accept them. From 1948 to 1967 Egypt controlled Gaza and Jordan controlled the West Bank. Egypt never offered the Palistinians citizenship and the Jordanians did so on a limited basis.To this day Palestinians are not permitted citizenship in Kuwait or Saudi Arabia. Yet, there are 1,000,000 Israeli-Arabs with full citizenship. Learn the facts before you take a foolish position>
140 posted on 09/12/2002 9:01:11 AM PDT by ozdragon
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To: zapiks44
As a small ISP in Central California I have access to a pretty good sized mailing list. A friend of mine involved in the effort to bring together the Jewish and Christian communitites asked me to send out a flier announcing a Pro- Israel rally entitled "United We Stand With Our Friend Israel" which took place in Fresno. Out of the 1500 or so recipients I received 6 replies back which were quite negative. A couple equated Israel with Naziism. I was shocked.

I thought to myself, what's wrong with these people? Isn't Israel our ally in the Middle East? Isn't Israel the only democratically representative government in the Middle East? Only one of the negative replies that contained any kind of reasoning was on from a client who appeared to suffer from a liberal PC education. In her statement she spoke about how she thought it was innapropriate for me to have used my access to my clients to promote a Pro-Israeli message.

To make the story short, I came to realize that these people are cowards and don't want to take a stand for what deep down we know is the right cause. There are absolutes, there is right and wrong. What America stands for is worth defending and fighting for, and no, we can't all just get along. (Sorry Rodney).

141 posted on 09/12/2002 9:38:08 AM PDT by semaj
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To: Cachelot
So, let's experiment a little. If such a sect should side with Arafat and declare that yes, Israel should cease to exist and the Jews should accept whatever he wished to visit upon them, they would be "non-self-hating"? (I prefer the term antisemites, actually - it carries the correct associations, which is no doubt why the neonazis are quite keen to get rid of it).

I don't consider devout members of sects like Satmar to be self-hating.

Sorry. I meant mainstream in the sense of representing most Americans. Sam Francis is certainly not mainstream in that sense, and he seems to make up a great part of that site, and so the site is not representative for the views of most Americans. I can go on explaining this to the micro level, of course. It'll take time.
Sam Francis is out there, even on the FR spectrum. He's an intelligent David Duke.


So the argument is bogus, and you admit it's bogus. Yet you still lean on it.
Race is either made up or genetic. I showed evidence that Jews as a race works under both definitions.

"2. Jews from all over the world really do share a lot more genetic code than most think."

So many Jews share some genetic code. And that has what to do with race? Genetic code will tell you a few things about bloodlines - family type of stuff. A genetic marker doesn't necessarily signify a racial characteristic. Another bogus argument.

If consistancy of genetic markers across many subgroups of people who claim to belong to one race doesn't make them a race, what would?

Now consider this: if I were to convert to Judaism, I would be a Jew. That single fact alone renders your whole "racial platform" null and void. There are things that are sort of special about the Jews as a people, but race doesn't enter into it.

And once you or your children start married "real" Jews, they your grand children would be blood members of the race.
If 100% purity is your standar, no race exists.

A piece of advice for you: if you absolutely must debate racial questions, it behooves you to get a grip on what race is.

What then is race?

"American Indians are anything but the ethnic core. This was not thier country. They were subjects of the various Indian Nations. They were not citizens. We took their land."

This is senseless and ridiculous.

It is fact.
1. Indians were not citizens at our founding. The were seperate nations. Read the Constituion.
2. The Indians did not invite us. WE invaded their land, constituted a new nation, and took over. This is nothing new in human history.

" The central core is the white, mostly British, populace at the founding, who make up 1/3 of Americans. They set up the polity and are what everyone else is supposed to assimilate to."

And so is this.

I see SO MANY BLakcs, Russians, Italians, Chinese, and Indians when reading a list of founders of this country or looking at early voting rolls.

"If you think Israel doesn't have a racial core, let in 3 million Arabs (who you think Sephardim and Mizrahim resemble)"

Where, exactly, did I mention Sephardim and Mizrahim? Seems you are running a parallel argument somewhere else, with someone else. Are you? And what exactly is that supposed to mean anyway? There are Arabs in Israel. Not to mention Black Jews and Asian Jews ;).

1. If Jews are not a seperate race, tehn they belong to the race of people where they are from. Ashkenzim are White, Sephardim and Misrahim are Arabs. I'm pointing out a flaw.
2. Aren't Jews from Arabia and Persia "Asian"?
3. The Falashas are your best case. I would note that they do not look like Ethiopians. They have many Semetic and European characteristics. Facial structure is different, hair color is more diverse...

142 posted on 09/12/2002 4:09:52 PM PDT by rmlew
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To: semaj
Turkey is a Democratic Republic, in theory. It is a little rough in practice.
143 posted on 09/12/2002 4:12:42 PM PDT by rmlew
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To: Russell Scott
I've given up on Jewish liberals.Screw them.I've been a right winger since high school.I can't understand how this girl calls herself an "Israeli-Amercian".If she wants to be Israeli she can emigrate.The only flag she should be waving is the US flag.I can't say the Jewish "community" has ever meant anything to me,so be it.I get tired of PROMINENT Jews always seeming to support all the wrong causes,particularly gun control and abortion.Those of us who disagree are ostracized.Fortunately I'd rather swig cheap wine with skidrow bums than attend a cocktail party given by Mort Zuckerman or Abe(BARF)Foxman.
144 posted on 09/12/2002 5:45:40 PM PDT by steamroller
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To: zapiks44
BFLR
145 posted on 09/12/2002 10:39:02 PM PDT by Captainpaintball
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To: zapiks44
In a very palpable way, I was an outsider, hated by everyone.

Ummmm, Sarah, stop whining, realize who your real friends are and become a Republican.

Pass that advice on to your other Liberal Jewish friends.

146 posted on 09/12/2002 10:58:57 PM PDT by Polybius
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To: rmlew; SJackson; Alouette; Nachum; Nix 2
I don't consider devout members of sects like Satmar to be self-hating.

So what you're saying is that if someone had a devout reason, they could support the holocoust and still not be antisemitic. That is the bottom line of your POV, you know.

And once you or your children start married "real" Jews, they your grand children would be blood members of the race.

Sorry, your argument falls flat again. Now, I'm male, so my children would be Jewish if I married a Jewish woman. But if I'd been a woman, and converted, my children would be just as Jewish if I didn't. At least I think that's the case, but since I'm not completely sure of "procedure" here I'm pinging some who probably know.

If 100% purity is your standard, no race exists.

Actually, that is very much closer to the truth than you probably think. And even if you look at "pure" examples, the genetic differences that make up "race" are very, very small and very insignificant. Making them an issue in politics is exceedingly stupid.

147 posted on 09/13/2002 5:13:18 AM PDT by Cachelot
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To: faintpraise
For your edification:

A technique of propaganda called "Turnspeak"

The Arab League makes use of a cognitive technique of propaganda called "turnspeak", where you attack someone and then turn it around 180 degrees and claim they attacked you. Because the truth is the exact opposite of the information being disseminated it is psychologically difficult to counter and leads to confusion.

Turnspeak leads to psychological confusion and a feeling of being "burned-out" or "overwhelmed" with too much information, effectively creating a blanket of "white noise" which makes clarity difficult to achieve.

Joan Peters, former White House consultant on the Middle East writes:

The term was first used by journalists to describe German propaganda after it invaded Czechoslovakia in March of 1939.  To win sympathy for their invasion, the Germans practiced what has  become known as "turnspeak". They turned the blame back on the Czechs for trying to precipitate an all-out war in the region. In other words, the Czechs in their attempt to hang onto their land were ready to plunge all of Europe into war.

How did the rest of Europe respond to this lie? They believed it. World leaders decided that something had to be done to preserve peace at any cost.

Author William Shirer, who was a reporter in Europe at the time,  distilled the truth simply when he wrote, "Thus the plight of the German  minority in Czechoslovakia was merely a pretext...for cooking up a stew in a land he [Hitler] coveted, undermining it, confusing and misleading its friends and concealing his real purpose...to destroy the Czechoslovak state and grab its territories..."

The Arab claim that Jews are "Nazis" is not without motive.  They are trying to obscure their own close connection with the Nazis.  During World War II leading Muslims including Haj Amin al-Husseini worked for the Nazis in Germany and called for a intifada against Britain. Haji Amin al-Husseini was the grand mufti of Jerusalem, as well as Yasser Arafat's close relative and mentor

The Arabs, especially Iraq, sided with Germany during W.W.II. In May 1941, Haj Amin al-Husseini issued a fatwa - "summons to a holy war against Britain". The Mufti's widely heralded proclamation against Britain was declared in Iraq,  and was instrumental in his 1941 pro-Nazi intifada in Iraqi. The Mufti also requested Arab-Americans not to support FDR.

Yasser Arafat's actual name is Abd al-Rahman abd al-Rauf Arafat al-Qud al-Husseini. He shortened it to obscure his kinship with the notorious Nazi and Mufti of Jerusalem.

Saddam Hussein was raised in the house of his uncle Khayrallah Tulfah, who was a leader in the Mufti's pro-Nazi coup in Iraq in May 1941. Both Yasser Arafat and Saddam Hussein were greatly influenced by the Mufti during their time in Cairo during the 1950s.

See also History of Fedayeen, PLO, Fatah, PFLP, PFLP-GC, DFLP, etc Militant Palestinian Groups and  Yasser Arafat worthy successor to Haj Muhammad Amin al Husseini

Side-by-side comparison of "turnspeak"

Many examples of "turnspeak" abound in today's news media.  For example a article in a leading Western news service reported "The settlers are a roaming the west bank with guns and randomly shooting at Palestinian civilians... making Palestinians prisoners in their own villages", or another article that said "They [the settlers] are hunters... They go into jail through one door and out the other."  An even more obvious example is Arafat's claims that Israel is stopping the peace process.
 
What "turnspeak" says:
(from Arab and Western media)
  • Israel is aggressive, expansionist
  • On the day that Israel declared their statehood -- May 14, 1948 -- it was invaded by an alliance of Egypt, Lebanon, Iraq and Syria. Their motivation was the already clearly stated intent of Israel to disregard international treaties
  • Israeli violations of human rights are the worst in the world
  • The Israelis are barbaric in their occupation of the territories
  • The Israeli methods are worse than the Nazis
  • Israelis are Nazis
  • Palestinian holocaust
  • The Israeli government is a gang of thieves
  • Israel is poisoning the Palestinian water supply.
  • Israel is a terrorist state
  • Israel doesn't want peace
  • Israel rejects all overtones of peace by Arab countries.
  • PM Sharon is a war criminal.
  • The nobel peace price should be revoked from Shimon Peres
  • Israel routinely sanctions war crimes.
  • Israel is terrorizing Palestinian cities.
  • Israel shoots randomly at Palestinians
  • Israeli killing and organized Israeli terror
  • Israel has annihilated Palestinian villages for decades
  • Israeli media is inciting religious hatred towards Moslems.
  • Moslem holy places are in danger by Israel.
  • Mosques and Churches are being made into Synagogues
  • The Jews want to destroy Al Aksa Mosque (and Dome of the Rock)<
  • Arabs have no legal rights in Israel. Christians have no legal rights in  Israel.
  • The settlers are roaming the west bank with guns and randomly shooting at Palestinian civilians.
  • The settlers are making Palestinians prisoners in their own villages
  • Arab villages are surrounded by barbed wire fences (barbed wire concentration camps)
  • They [the settlers] are hunters... They go into jail through one door and out the other
  • Palestinians have been living in Palestine for thousands of years.
  • Claims of historical or religious ties of Jews and [the land of] Palestine are incompatible with the facts of history...
  • Palestinians outside Israel have an even higher standard of living than Israelis
  • Arabs who live in Israel live in the same third world conditions that exist in  most Arab countries
  • Iraq, Egypt, Syria and (now) Iran have purer democracies than even the United States
  • Israeli press is government run.
  • The Jews are preventing the Arab countries from having democracies.
  • Palestinian Terrorists are martyrs.
Yet the counterpart is probably closer to the truth:
  • [Militant] Islam is aggressive, expansionist.
  • On the day that Israel declared their statehood -- May 14, 1948 -- it was invaded by an alliance of Egypt, Lebanon, Iraq and Syria. Their motivation was the already clearly stated intent of the Arabs States to disregard U.N. declarations.
  • Arab States violations of human rights are [some of] the worst in the world
  • [Some] Islamic States have been barbaric in their treatment of minorities (Kurds, Armenians, etc.), women's rights (honor killings) and criminals (cutting off hands, body parts, beheading...)
  • Many Arab leaders were Nazi sympathizers, see above.
  • Jewish holocaust
  • The Palestinian Authority is a gang of thieves.
  • Palestinians have on occasion poisoned the Israeli water supply [or poisoned Israeli produce].
  • The Palestinian Authority is a terrorist entity
  • Arafat doesn't want peace
  • The Arab States reject all overtones of peace by Israel.
  • Arafat is a war criminal.
  • The nobel peace price should be revoked from Arafat.
  • Arafat (and the Arab States) routinely sanction war crimes.
  • The military wing of the PA is terrorizing Israeli cities.
  • Palestinian Terrorists shoots randomly at Israelis
  • Terrorists killing and organized Palestinian Authority terror
  • Arab States have annihilated Jewish villages (in Arab States) for hundreds of years
  • Arabic media is inciting religious hatred towards Jews.
  • Jewish holy places are in danger by Islam.
  • Synagogues and Churches are being made into Mosques.
  • The Wakf is actually destroying the Temple Mount artifacts
  • Jews have no [reduced] legal rights in the [some] Islamic States
  • The Palestinian Terrorists are roaming the west bank with guns and randomly shooting at Israeli civilians.
  • The Palestinian Terrorists are making settlers prisoners in their own villages.
  • Jewish Settlements are surrounded by wire fences.
  • They [the Palestinian Terrorists] are hunters... They go into jail through one door and out the other
  • Jews have been living in Palestine for thousands of years.
  • Claims of historical or religious ties of "Palestinians" and [the land of] Israel are incompatible with the facts of history...
  • Arabs who live in Israel have an even higher standard of living than Arabs outside Israel
  • United States and Israel have  democracies, Iraq, Egypt, Syria and Iran are not.
  • Most Arab press are government controlled
  • The Arab Leaders are preventing the Arab countries from having democracies
  • Victims of Palestinian Terrorists are martyrs.

1."From Time Immemorial" by Joan Peters, 1984
2.The Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin al-Husseini was later the notorious Nazi who mixed Nazi propaganda and Islam.  He was wanted for war crimes in Bosnia by Yugoslavia.  His mix of militant propagandizing Islam was an inspiration for both Yasser Arafat and Saddam Husein: He was also a close relative of Yasser Arafat and grandfather of the current Temple Mount Mufti. "Arafat's actual name was Abd al-Rahman abd al-Bauf Arafat al-Qud al-Husseini. He shortened it to obscure his kinship with the notorious Nazi and ex-Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Muhammed Amin al-Husseini." Howard M. Sachar, A HISTORY OF ISRAEL (New York: Knopf, 1976).  The Bet Agron International Center in Jerusalem interviewed Arafat's brother and sister, who described the Mufti as a cousin (family member) with tremendous influence on young Yassir after the Mufti returned from Berlin to Cairo. Yasser Arafat himself keeps his exact lineage and birthplace secret.  Saddam Hussein was raised in the house of his uncle Khayrallah Tulfah, who was a leader in the Mufti's pro-Nazi coup in Iraq in May 1941.

148 posted on 09/13/2002 6:44:09 AM PDT by Alouette
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To: Alouette
An excellent post. I don't remember seeing "turnspeak" used as a term before. It is sort of reminscent of the Orwellian term "Newspeak" from the book "1984".

I especially like the easy side by side reference.

149 posted on 09/13/2002 10:18:14 AM PDT by Nachum
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To: Nachum; Thinkin' Gal; dennisw; Cachelot
The low-bandwidth version:

Who's Astonished Now????

Astonished J Harris Lematha sawgrass
Passin Pilgrim LeeAnn6 tynker Kudzu Flat
Samaritan Patria One beecharmer Miss Pixie
necho6 glassheart3 Friend_Or_Foe Kirkland Junction
nohorse faintpraise TBD TBD

150 posted on 09/13/2002 10:29:30 AM PDT by Alouette
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