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Lou Dobbs Interviews Journalist About Iraqi Terror Connection To OKC Bombing
Lou Dobbs Moneyline (CNN) ^ | September 9, 2002

Posted on 09/11/2002 11:59:32 AM PDT by PJ-Comix

Edited on 04/29/2004 2:01:14 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

LOU DOBBS: Also still ahead, a former television journalist says that Iraqi intelligence agencies were involved in the bombing of the federal courthouse in Oklahoma City. Jayna Davis will be here to tell us why there may have been an Iraqi connection......


(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Extended News; Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: jaynadavis; loudobbs; okcbombing; oklahomacity; timothymcveigh
When the FBI finally took custody of the evidence in 1999, because I repeatedly knocked on the door, they took the 22 sworn witness affidavits about the specific identification of Arab men involved in the Oklahoma City bombing.

They did not call one witness, Lou. They did not interview them. And to this day, the man identified by several witnesses, as John Doe 2, cannot provide one witness affidavit to establish his whereabouts for the morning of April 19. And to this day, the Department of Justice has been unable to provide an explanation to the Government Reform Committee investigators who have been looking into this for five months, as to why they never questioned this possible Iraqi John Doe, and why they have never officially cleared him on the record.

AMAZING! It seems like the FBI was following a script that allowed no room for Middle East/Iraqi terrorists to be involved in the OKC bombing. Remember, this is a respected journalist (Jayna Davis), not Michael Rivero, making these allegations.

1 posted on 09/11/2002 11:59:32 AM PDT by PJ-Comix
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To: PJ-Comix
"Knock, knock..."

Who's there?

"Lou."

Lou who?

"The rubber-banded Lou CNN threw."

Well Lou, you're ratings are still in the loo, so shoo...
2 posted on 09/11/2002 12:23:07 PM PDT by Vidalia
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To: PJ-Comix
The two most important background sources on what happened at OKC are Ambrose Evans-Pritchard's book on clinton, which gives the big picture, and Brigadier General Partin's analysis of the explosion, posted on the web for several years, making a persuasive case that the fertilizer bomb could not have collapsed the building, so other operatives must have strapped plastic explosives to pillars in the basement.

We know that there was a highly connected German intelligence officer at Elohim City at the time, we know that the FBI, the BATF, and probably the CIA had double agents involved with the perpetrators. And there is evidence that bill clinton himself knew about the bombing beforehand.

FBI policy at that time was to let Arab terrorists go around doing their work, supposedly so they could enlist them as double agents. Whether clinton actually wanted the bombing to happen, or whether there was a screw-up and the FBI failed to stop it in time, is the $64 question.

But it's clear that the FBI, the Justice Department, and the clinton-controlled media lacked interest in searching for the accomplices. They actively lacked interest, much as they did in the Vincent Foster case. They simply didn't want to know. They refused to know. Which was pretty much the normal state of affairs under clinton.

3 posted on 09/11/2002 12:27:04 PM PDT by Cicero
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To: PJ-Comix
This story seems to be gaining traction the past few days. WSJ, CNN, ...!
4 posted on 09/11/2002 12:27:13 PM PDT by newgeezer
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To: Cicero
They actively lacked interest, much as they did in the Vincent Foster case. They simply didn't want to know. They refused to know.

Good description of Peter Jennings' mindframe. He was the chief journalistic alibi maker in the Vince Foster case when he displayed a photo of Vince Foster's hand neatly cluthing a pistol by the side of his body.

5 posted on 09/11/2002 12:31:15 PM PDT by PJ-Comix
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To: PJ-Comix
I think you mean Ted Koppel not Jennings.
6 posted on 09/11/2002 12:37:51 PM PDT by JohnGalt
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To: JohnGalt
I think you mean Ted Koppel not Jennings.

No, I mean Jennings. He was the one who unquestioningly displayed that photo on his ABC news show. It never occured to that dope that there might be something suspicous about someone who just shot himself in the head to be still clutching a gun neatly by his side.

7 posted on 09/11/2002 12:40:24 PM PDT by PJ-Comix
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To: JohnGalt
Think this will be some of the new "evidence" that GW will speak to the nation about?
8 posted on 09/11/2002 12:41:58 PM PDT by nini
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To: Cicero
Cicero: "Whether clinton actually wanted the bombing to happen, or whether there was a screw-up and the FBI failed to stop it in time, is the $64 question."

Submitted for your consideration:

1. There was a comprehensive massive counter-terror bill introduced 2 months before the bombing that was going nowhere. It was passed easily afterwards.

2. The FBI counter-terror director (Ross, I believe) checked into his hotel in OK City the night before the bombing, and subsequently lied about it claiming he had been in Dallas and drove up immediatley afterward at high-speed. (Per hotel receipt he checked in 12:20 AM 4/19/95)

3. None of the FBI were in the building at the time.

4. A bomb squad showed up earlier in the morning prior to the blast.

5. Reports of multiple bombs set to go off in the building were found and broadcast live.

6. Governor Tom Keating's brother, who writes spy/espionage novels and claims on his website to have insider connections to that world (ala Tom Clancy) wrote a book 2 years prior to the bombing that described a white terrorist by name of McVey who blew up govt buildings with a truck bomb.

7. A group of approximantely 5000 Iraqi Republican Guard were relocated to OK City after the Gulf War (Washington Times)

And these are just some of the incriminating facts demonstrating prior knowledge, involvement and coverup by not just Clinton, but others as well.

Now we also know that the powers that be wanted to invade Afghanistan as far back as 1997 (Per Zbignew Brzenski's book The Grand Chessboard), but needed a provocation to get the American public to go along. About that time, Osama Bin-Laden relocated to Afghanistan.

Now we also know that Donald Rumsfeld was preparing a plan to attack Iraq at the same time as 9/11 and wrote in his notes re: that attack to put all contingencies into effect to tie it to Saddam Hussein ("S.H.") and attack Iraq in response as well.


All this implies a strategy being employed, not incompetence.
9 posted on 09/11/2002 12:51:30 PM PDT by DrLiberty
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To: PJ-Comix
Let alone a black gun when Lisa Foster said it was silver gun. You still stay in touch with Craig Livingston?
10 posted on 09/11/2002 1:00:42 PM PDT by JohnGalt
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To: nini
No, this is just a lame attempt to get Hard Right sympathizers from the Clinton years blood thirsty for war with Iraq. It's not working in fact I am a little sickened by the blatant pandering to our theories without proper investigation.

What remains a fact is that the FBI and ATF had sleepers in militia and racist camps across the country and failed to protect us then; passing the blame on to the Iraqis is intellectual laziness. Our focus must remain on the corruption at the FBI.

11 posted on 09/11/2002 1:03:21 PM PDT by JohnGalt
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To: PJ-Comix; All; *OKCbombing
I have privately speculated with other members here whether the media would drop the ball on this like they did with so many other clinton-era scandals.
We shall see... meanwhile- indexing:

OKCbombing:

To find all articles tagged or indexed using OKCbombing, click below:
  click here >>> OKCbombing <<< click here  
(To view all FR Bump Lists, click here)

12 posted on 09/11/2002 1:06:07 PM PDT by backhoe
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To: JohnGalt
You still stay in touch with Craig Livingston?

I think Craig is pissed at me bigtime so the answer is no. However, I might one day obtain his services as a limo driver the next time I visit DC. What a dope Livingstone was. He actually believed the Clinton promises that they would arrange for him to be a big Hollywood producer. Hey Craig! How does it feel to read about the MILLIONS the Clintons are earning while you have to chauffer people around?

13 posted on 09/11/2002 1:07:36 PM PDT by PJ-Comix
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To: DrLiberty
What's Keating's brother's name? Or the name of the book?

Incidentially, a few months back I bought a book called, The Towers, written byRobert Andrews. Published May 1996. Front cover shows the WTC Towers. Back of the book says:

Jumping back into the game, Sims finds America is a target. War has been declared-- not for land, wealth, or political agendas, but against the Great Satan, Uncle Sam.......

I haven't read it yet, but your post reminded me of it.

Are the terrorists using espionage books to plan their attacks???

14 posted on 09/11/2002 1:11:38 PM PDT by ET(end tyranny)
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To: maica; Freee-dame
I hope we find out the truth some day.
15 posted on 09/11/2002 1:18:03 PM PDT by Travis McGee
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To: PJ-Comix
Jayna Davis better watch her step, or she's liable to end up dayed.
16 posted on 09/11/2002 1:26:41 PM PDT by Semaphore Heathcliffe
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To: ET(end tyranny)
His name is Martin Keating. The name of the book is "The Final Jihad". It was finished in 1991 and published in 1996.

Here is a link describing it on keating's corporation website, firstkeating.com

http://www.firstkeating.com/books.htm

Here is an article about the book, from The New American 5/13/96:

"What are the odds against a Midwest lawyer writing a novel on terrorism five years ago that contains on extraordinary string of terrorist incidents unnervingly similar to infamous deeds which have since taken place? Events like the Oklahoma City bombing, the Arizona Amtrak derailment, the plane crash into the White House, the World Trade Center bombing? Maybe about the same as the odds of Pee Wee Herman taking out Mike Tyson in the first round?

But Martin Keating has done that -- and more. His book, The Final Jihad, was completed in 1991 but is due to be released in June of this year. Among the startling similarities between his fictional story and present reality are:

A terrorist network in Oklahoma

A key character named Tom McVey

The arrest of terrorists on a minor traffic violation by an unsuspecting highway patrolman.

"Martin Keating is a master storyteller with unique access to government intelligence agencies and clandestine terrorist groups," says the publicity sheet accompanying our prepublication review copy of the book. "His brother, Frank Keating, currently governor of Oklahoma, is a former FBI agent and assistant secretary of the Treasury who supervised the Secret Service, U.S. Customs, and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms. Keating's uncle, Barney Martin, headed the Navy's foreign intelligence collection unit." In addition, Keating has benefited from access to the FBI's ultra-secret Strategic Information Operation Center and some of the world's top intelligence operatives.

Interestingly, the villains in The Final Jihad are not militia activists or "right- wing extremists" but, according the book's promotional literature, a "com- bined group of determined KGB, North Korean, and East German hard- liners whose murderous acts are carried out by brutal Middle Eastern fanatics."

17 posted on 09/11/2002 1:33:40 PM PDT by DrLiberty
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To: DrLiberty
Your villians are the same villians in The Towers.... and so is ANTHRAX. Book is written by a former CIA, Green Beret. Flipping through the book one guy had anthrax spores in an ink pen/casing???

Makes me wonder if all these anthrax stories/and white powder scares and so we will start ignoring them and become complacent. (adjusting my tin foil)

18 posted on 09/11/2002 1:37:49 PM PDT by ET(end tyranny)
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To: PJ-Comix
Dick Morris recounts in his book how the first Clinton cabinet meeting after OKC was devoted to brainstorming how they could maximimally exploit the tragedy for political advantage. It's not hard to imagine what signals went down the line to the FBI, once the leadership settled on the "Angry White Male" myth as the best way to score points from the bombing.

Actually, McVeigh was just Scott Ritter on steroids. See his Essay on Hypocrisy.

19 posted on 09/11/2002 1:44:30 PM PDT by The Great Satan
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To: DrLiberty
Now we also know that the powers that be wanted to invade Afghanistan as far back as 1997 (Per Zbignew Brzenski's book The Grand Chessboard), but needed a provocation to get the American public to go along. About that time, Osama Bin-Laden relocated to Afghanistan.

Your theories are well thought out and have some logical support. There is however one problem I see. Why not blame the OKC bombing on the foreign terrorist back then ? Why shift the blame to 'domestic terrorism' ? Think of how the country would have rallied behind Clintoon because of the terrible act of middle eastern terrorism committed in the 'heartland' of America. The only possible explanation I can see is that Clintoon hijacked their plans and used them to go after those 'right wingers' who were causing him political problems.

Here are some other interesting things I remember from those of us who were frequently posting on the newsgroups back then. Right after that bombing a couple of new posters appeared who were obviously trying to persuade right wingers to support McViegh. They were unsuccessful. I also remember getting a private email from Rivero back then. After I called McViegh a mass murderer who was obviously timing the actual bombing to kill as many of the workers within the building as possible, Rivero told me in private email that McViegh got hung up in traffic and may have been trying to get the truck to explode earlier.

Just some more tidbits for you to ponder.

20 posted on 09/11/2002 1:51:56 PM PDT by justa-hairyape
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To: DrLiberty
The odds are pretty high, I'd say. I never bought the story of McVey doing it alone, and that book is just plain creepy.

This Towers book isn't much better with it's canisters of anthrax being placed in ventilation shafts and bombs placed in the lower levels of the buildings so that the explosion sends gusts of air up the shafts to disperse the anthrax.....

And then there's been threads on canisters of fertilizer that have gone missing!

21 posted on 09/11/2002 1:56:28 PM PDT by ET(end tyranny)
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To: PJ-Comix
Plus Foster is left handed and it was in his right hand.
22 posted on 09/11/2002 2:14:31 PM PDT by lasereye
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To: lasereye
I sure hope Mark Fuhrman starts working on his Foster case book soon.
23 posted on 09/11/2002 2:16:06 PM PDT by PJ-Comix
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To: PJ-Comix
bump
24 posted on 09/11/2002 2:17:03 PM PDT by sanchmo
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To: justa-hairyape
Why not link to Iraq back then?

I think Clinton was going for maximum political effect (as Dick Morris pointed out) and also I'm not sure that it was for him to go after Iraq at that time.(ie maybe it was being saved til 2002 and for Bush to do?)

Certainly Clinton had no stomach for that kind of undertaking or dealing with people like Osama either. He seemed to be in charge to let this stuff get to the boiling point instead of dealing with it effectively. So now Clinton is a convenient scapegoat (deservedly of course) that Bush wont investigate for anything.

So the Dems and Repubs seem to work together well in this regard, eh?
25 posted on 09/11/2002 2:21:42 PM PDT by DrLiberty
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To: DrLiberty
That is really eerie! I had not heard of the book!
26 posted on 09/11/2002 2:25:34 PM PDT by buffyt
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To: DrLiberty
Governor Tom Keating's brother

Small correction. It's Frank Keating.

27 posted on 09/11/2002 2:30:01 PM PDT by ET(end tyranny)
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To: OKCSubmariner
fyi
28 posted on 09/11/2002 2:31:04 PM PDT by Stand Watch Listen
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To: Semaphore Heathcliffe

29 posted on 09/11/2002 2:35:23 PM PDT by buffyt
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To: ET(end tyranny)
All those Keating folk and their adventures hard to keep track of....
30 posted on 09/11/2002 2:35:33 PM PDT by DrLiberty
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To: justa-hairyape
Why not blame the OKC bombing on the foreign terrorist back then ?

Possibility. Maybe they figured if they blamed the ME, then later when the book was published, they thought the ME was claim they were set up?

I have no idea, but I wonder why wasn't book published ealier if it was finished in 1991? Why the long delay?

31 posted on 09/11/2002 2:37:21 PM PDT by ET(end tyranny)
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To: DrLiberty
When I first read it, I thought Tom Keating didn't sound right, lol.
32 posted on 09/11/2002 2:39:16 PM PDT by ET(end tyranny)
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To: DrLiberty
Got another one to add to your list.

The OKC bombing definitely helped to ram through the Domestic Terrorism Act. I've seen it used by the Xlin-Ton administration's Justice(?) Dept. to "go after" militias, Christians and guns. This was what they needed to go after the enemies of marxism.
33 posted on 09/11/2002 3:49:45 PM PDT by martian_22
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To: DrLiberty
Self reference bump.
34 posted on 09/11/2002 3:51:36 PM PDT by Fred Mertz
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To: martian_22
"go after" militias, Christians and guns

and racists or southern church burners

35 posted on 09/11/2002 3:57:10 PM PDT by alrea
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To: alrea
Racist's come in all colors.

As for church burnings....I haven't seen or heard of a real(hateful) one for decades. The only ones I've heard of come every election cycle or for insurance reasons. Just coincidence....
36 posted on 09/11/2002 4:17:27 PM PDT by martian_22
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To: JohnGalt
"No, this is just a lame attempt to get Hard Right sympathizers from the Clinton years blood thirsty for war with Iraq."

Sure. But there's one little problem. Long before anyone was considering invading Iraq we've been talking about Oklahoma City and the Iraqi connection.

You happen to think our motives are wrong, and you offer as "proof" an assertion that isn't even historically accurate.

37 posted on 09/11/2002 4:30:17 PM PDT by Reactionary
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To: justa-hairyape
The reason the "govt" (collectively) deliberately did not want to implicate Middle-eastern terrorists is because it suited a multiplicity of purposes:

1) The radical rightwing ideology of McVeigh played into the hands of the blame-oriented partisan politics of the Clinton thugs.

2) It is a simpler explanation than an international terrorist thread, which, when pulled, unravels a story that may not end cleanly for the admin or the intelligence community or the big military dealers who lobby Congress.

3) It's possible that some of the unnamed terrorists may have been Saudi and that some big military sales could have been jeapordized.

4) PLUS: there has been more than speculation that Terry Nichols had a tie to the Phillipines terrorist organization that has ties to Al Queda.

38 posted on 09/11/2002 8:07:23 PM PDT by The Doctor
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To: PJ-Comix
self search bump
39 posted on 09/11/2002 8:13:54 PM PDT by Free Vulcan
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To: DrLiberty
"Why not link to Iraq back then?"

Because it gave him the inside track on several things:

1. He could put more of "his" people inside the Justice Department for bigger plans in the future.

2. He was a coward and could never be a war time President.

3. He could blame the "far right" and look like a hero while muting the Gingrich movement even more.

4. Reno could be assured that she would skate on Waco and Ruby Ridge by demonstrating how dangerous the "far right" was.

5. The Saudis paid Klintoon off to not attack Iraq.
40 posted on 09/11/2002 10:08:06 PM PDT by Nuke'm Glowing
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To: The Doctor
1) The radical rightwing ideology of McVeigh played into the hands of the blame-oriented partisan politics of the Clinton thugs.

Actually, McViegh was not 100 % right wing. There was a whole lot of Marxism in his writings and beliefs. It would be better to term him an anarchist with lots of baggage from the left and right. The media painted him as a right winger.

2) It is a simpler explanation than an international terrorist thread, which, when pulled, unravels a story that may not end cleanly for the admin or the intelligence community or the big military dealers who lobby Congress.

If they thought they could cover up the international terrorist connections effectively, then they should have also thought they could cover up the involvement of our intelligence communities in those international terrorist connections.

3) It's possible that some of the unnamed terrorists may have been Saudi and that some big military sales could have been jeapordized.

They were Iraqi, apparently.

4) PLUS: there has been more than speculation that Terry Nichols had a tie to the Phillipines terrorist organization that has ties to Al Queda.

Apparently that connection was tough to 'cover up'.

41 posted on 09/12/2002 12:19:03 AM PDT by justa-hairyape
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To: Nuke'm Glowing
1. He could put more of "his" people inside the Justice Department for bigger plans in the future.

Like defend him from the Monica Lewinski affair ? This was the opportunity that could have made his presidency. Similar to how 911 made the Bush presidency. Why did he pass it up ?

2. He was a coward and could never be a war time President.

He would not have to do the fighting. If he had to he could have let a general run it for him.

3. He could blame the "far right" and look like a hero while muting the Gingrich movement even more.

He certainly did blame the far right, but if he turned down the opportunity to defend the country in time of war just to blame the far right, he was dumber then most of us thought.

4. Reno could be assured that she would skate on Waco and Ruby Ridge by demonstrating how dangerous the "far right" was.

Thats possible, but who cares about Reno ? The was a golden opportunity for the PRESIDENT.

5. The Saudis paid Klintoon off to not attack Iraq.

We were only a few years from the Gulf war where the Saudis wanted the US to fight Iraq and remove it from Kuwait. Seems a little too early in the timeline for the house of Saud to be nice to Iraq.

At any rate, it still seems very possible that the Iraq agents assisting McViegh were unknown to those keeping an eye on McViegh. And when the internal prewired explosions went off (Iraqi contribution), quite a few people may have been 'surprised'. Then of course Cintoon became involved and the Marxist utilized the event to attack the right. Probably exactly what the Iraqis hoped they would do.

42 posted on 09/12/2002 1:14:45 AM PDT by justa-hairyape
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To: Reactionary
Your post captures my point; they (the media) are not giving a 'theory' that I happen to subscribe too (some form of international state sponsored terrorism connected to the OKC bombing) an investigation. Rather, big media rolls out the usual suspects to retell the same story from four years ago. Suddenly, those who are skeptical about a second war in Iraq are feeling pretty good about themselves being in some degree vindicated as our theories become validated (by CNN no less)to some degree.

However, recognize that they are doing no work on their own, simply retelling a story that the collective 'we' had put together nearly 4 years ago.

43 posted on 09/12/2002 5:19:50 AM PDT by JohnGalt
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To: JohnGalt
I agree.
44 posted on 09/12/2002 3:50:01 PM PDT by Reactionary
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To: PJ-Comix
Bump .... note to self to read this later....
45 posted on 09/30/2002 1:56:01 PM PDT by A_perfect_lady
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