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Portland Jews Brace for Assault by 'Jews for Jesus' (anti-Christian Bigotry Alert!)
Torah Atlanta ^ | 2002 | Paul Haist

Posted on 09/15/2002 5:20:45 PM PDT by jstone78

Portland Jews Brace for Assault by 'Jews for Jesus'

By Paul Haist, Jewish Review

Portland’s Jewish community has mobilized to resist a two-week assault by Jews for Jesus who will unleash a sizeable squad of trained proselytizers on the city at the beginning of June. A former Eugene rabbi who now specializes in combating Jews for Jesus returned to Oregon May 7 and 8 to help the Jewish community here prepare for the assault. The campaign is planned to coincide with the annual Portland Rose Festival when thousands of people will be on the streets and accessible by pamphleteers.

Rabbi Efraim Davidson is the director of Torah Atlanta, a counter-missionary group that serves the southeast United States. Davidson, who lives in Atlanta now, was a founder and the spiritual leader of Congregation Ahavas Torah in Eugene.

ANTI-'JEWS FOR JESUS' FLIER

The Jewish Federation of Portland and its Community Relations Committee have been aware for several months of JFJ plans to bring their crusade here now to take advantage of the large public gatherings that will occur during the Rose Festival.

Davidson said that the Portland campaign is part of a JFJ five-year program called “Behold Your God.” He has confronted similar JFJ campaigns in other cities, including Tampa, Fla., and Atlanta.

“Behold Your God,” is, according to Davidson, “a very well coordinated, multi-million-dollar campaign” focusing on 66 cities worldwide with Jewish populations of 25,000 or more.

He said that the Jews for Jesus use aggressive proselytizing to target disenfranchised or unaffiliated Jews, Russian immigrants and college students. He said their techniques are manipulative, deceptive and anti-Semitic.

Jews for Jesus have had some success in recent years. Davidson cited figures that show the group has grown from a mere seven U.S. congregations in 1975 to 478 today. There already are at least five so-called messianic congregations in Portland, according to the Web site www.missionportland.org, although Davidson identifies only three messianic congregations here.

Davidson added that in 1973 there were an estimated 10,000 born Jews in the United States who were practicing Christians. Today, 29 years later, he put that figure at about 250,000.

Davidson said the JFJ typically names a coordinator for a particular city that is part of its campaign plan. That person, who he identified as Sue Pearlman in Portland, does the groundwork for the upcoming campaign.

That groundwork includes, said Davidson, “hooking up with a messianic congregation and using it as the physical base for training.”

The coordinator also usually contacts local Baptist churches to recruit lay Christian volunteers. Davidson said the JFJ relies on the Baptists because they are “very motivated evangelicals.”

(Excerpt) Read more at torahatlanta.com ...


TOPICS: Activism/Chapters; Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Extended News; US: Oregon
KEYWORDS: bigotry; christians; freespeech; jews
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To: Lurker
(Laughs)

I've heard tell of some pagans who knew that the Witnesses were in town, so they all got together, dressed up in ritual garb and hung around until they arrived. When they rang on the doorbell, one of them opened the door, let them get two words into their opening schpiel and then said "Oh! Come in, COME IN! The master said the sacrifices would present themselves...!" and opened the door so the witnesses could see the others in the room, and the candles, and the ritual knives...

They turned and ran, and never knocked on their door again.

Personally, I think that's mean. I just say I don't have time right now, but I'd love some of their literature. The literature eventually winds up as concert posters or idea fodder, and they go away smiling, too.

J
101 posted on 09/15/2002 11:28:56 PM PDT by jedwardtremlett
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To: The Ghost of Richard Nixon
Rather than driving Jews to extinction through assimilation, messianic congregations help to retain intact Jewish communities.

Learned Jewish scholars don't agree.

To the extent that this fails to be so, these congregations are failing a Christian ideal (at least in the dispensational model). In order that Christian eschatological prophesies be fulfilled, Jews need to retain their identity as a people. That seems to imply that Gentile Christians should not lightly countenance the extinction of Jewish ethnic identity. They should actually encourage the Jewish Christian congregations to keep their ethnic identity, rather than to become white bread "global Christians").

102 posted on 09/15/2002 11:29:27 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck
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To: Mare Tranquilitatus
I don't know about your browser, but mine (IE5.5) shows the quotations in italics, and the interpretations in non-italic font along with the rest of the commentary. I see nothing which looks like it claims to be a quotation for Romans 3:2. I do see commentary with an interpretation in it, claiming that Romans 3:2 supports it.

Now if 2sheep had put that commentary in italics to look exactly like a quotation, he would deserve to have his head handed to him (regardless of whether the interpretation was right or wrong). But he didn't.
103 posted on 09/15/2002 11:36:31 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck
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To: Mare Tranquilitatus
What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?

Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

Romans 3:1-2 (KJV)

104 posted on 09/15/2002 11:38:33 PM PDT by rdb3
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To: rdb3
The question here is, "which oracles." I come from what I think is a traditional Christian viewpoint, which holds that this refers to the Old Testament scriptures and prophesies. It isn't talking about the New Testament (which, nonetheless, is of mostly Jewish origin).
105 posted on 09/15/2002 11:44:06 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck
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To: LostTribe
"You(r) interpretation suggests it is Jews vs Gentiles, while in fact it is the Southern Kingdom (known as Jews by the time of Paul) vs. the the Northern Kingdom (who were the Celts by the time of Paul). The Northern Kingdom Israelites were never called Gentiles. Nor were they ever called Jews.."

Thus far relatively few have had their blinders removed so that they "see" what is plainly said. Truth seems to have been divorced from The Truth. What is then taught misses the mark and leaves lack of faith in its wake. Since faith, rather than deeds, is the currency of the Kingdom of God this constitutes an enormous impediment.

The stunning thing is that each one is responsible for that to which one gives one's ear and that which one chooses to believe. It is not a light matter.


106 posted on 09/15/2002 11:59:19 PM PDT by Spirited
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To: Mare Tranquilitatus; LostTribe; NativeNewYorker; Thinkin' Gal; Prodigal Daughter; Avoiding_Sulla; ..
>The oracles were given to the Jews, not to the gentiles. Rom 3:2.

>Are you in the habit of deliberately misquoting the Bible? No Bible translation reads that way. A special place in Hell is reserved for people who reword the Bible to say what they want it to say!

You know I am in the habit of making long full text KJB quotes.  Because I made a long post in #63, I did not set out the full verse in this instance.  Its meaning is not hidden from me and is simple enough for a child to understand.  If you have a different meaning then perhaps you have embraced the false doctrine of Replacement Theology and/or you are following a Nicolaitan.  Here is the King James Bible for everyone to read in plain English.  Here is the Truth, should you choose to accept it: Ps 119:130 The entrance of thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding unto the simple.  If the words have no place in you or you twist them to a new meaning, then understanding will not be given you.

Ro 3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

This thread has a strong stream of anti-semitism running through it under the guise of supposed Jewish bigotry against Christians and has disintegrated into name-calling.  While you all bite and devour each other, I will go away and agree with NativeNewYorker in #4 who said:

>"But please have some sympathy for a people who've seen this all before (many times) and simply want to be left alone."

107 posted on 09/15/2002 11:59:26 PM PDT by 2sheep
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To: jedwardtremlett
Personally, I think that's mean.

Not to mention a serious felony -- basically a threat of murder. If that's the way it really was played out, which would have been far in excess of what is needed to scare off Jehovah's Witnesses, who (or so the ex-JW founder of Free Minds tells me) are terrified of anything supernatural. A simple claim to manifest some kind of demonic phenomenon would have sent the JW's packing.

108 posted on 09/16/2002 12:03:00 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck
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To: 2sheep
One thing I am very curious about -- why would an organization which is straining so hard to distinguish its Jewish character as opposed to the "Christian Church," lean on a Bible translation that is the product of the Anglicans? If they claim they are distinct, they really ought to have their own translation. The Anglican church, which produced the KJV, would be hopelessly pagan in their view, what with their Christmas and Easter celebrations.
109 posted on 09/16/2002 12:07:30 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck
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To: Jorge
Ever try to say "no" to a Jew for Jesus? If he's in your workplace, you might have to say "no" ten times. I "no."
110 posted on 09/16/2002 12:11:10 AM PDT by Misterioso
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To: HiTech RedNeck
A simple claim to manifest some kind of demonic phenomenon would have sent the JW's packing.

Not that (let me hasten to add) I am advocating any such thing! The demonic is (duh!) evil. It just sounds more like a tall tale to me than anything realistic.

111 posted on 09/16/2002 12:14:29 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck
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To: Jorge
Thank you for illustrating my point. This sort of hostility toward Christians and their beliefs is exactly what I was talking about.

The hostility stems not from their (JFJ) beliefs, but from their behavior.

112 posted on 09/16/2002 12:21:17 AM PDT by Misterioso
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To: Jorge
You are deceived.
Both John the Baptist and Jesus Christ began their ministries with the message "Repent, for the Kingdom of God is at hand".
Ask me who I believe, them or you.

I will only address part of your spewings:

Look up the meaning of the greek word for "kingdom." It's "basileia" and does not mean a king, a government, society, royal family or religion. It means the power and authority by which a king rules. Jesus said that "kingdom" is within you. He also said that it does not come with observation. He was speaking to believers and nonbelievers alike when he said that. He then went on to show what the power and authority can do by healing the sick, raising the dead and casting out demons. He taught his disciples to do the same. One of the first things he did was send out twelve and then another seventy who performed miracles. This was done at a time when he could not give them the holy Spirit by which to do miracles.(John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.) It was the power and authority of the kingdom by which these things were done. And that is what the gospel of the kingdom was all about. That power and authority was at hand - literally at their fingertips as it is today. But in order to weild that power, they needed to repent - turn away from their sins and ask forgiveness of God. John was preaching the gospel of the kingdom and repentance before Jesus went public and began his ministry.

If you cannot understand the gospel of the kingdom, how can you understand those other scriptures you quote?

If you really understood who Jesus really was, you would have so many signs and wonders following you around that people would be seeking you out - you wouldn't have to seek them. Until you reach that exalted state, I suggest you keep your faith to yourself and let the Jews be. As it is written:
John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

Where I walk those signs follow me. God tells me I'm on the right path. I am not alone - there are others who know of which I speak and walk as I walk. Jesus said to "seek ye first the kingdom of God." (kingdom=power & authority) He did not say to seek any thing else first.

And, addressing repentance: Do you know what Yom Kippur is all about? Do you know anything about Jews repenting of their sins? Do or did you ever do it with the same singleness of purpose and conviction? Do you think a devout Jew does not believe God even as Abraham did?

Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

113 posted on 09/16/2002 12:27:11 AM PDT by mfulstone
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To: aristeides
But the question is what Christians are supposed to believe. Jorge's point is that, if Christians do not proselytize among Jews, they will be denying their own beliefs -- or at least what they claim are their beliefs.

"But the question is what Muslims are supposed to believe. Ahmed's point is that, if Muslims do not proselytize among Christians, they will be denying their own beliefs -- or at least what they claim are their beliefs."

Every person has their own philosophical "row to hoe" and how they do it should be nobody else's business. If I want to discuss my atheism with someone whom I know to be religious, I ask them that we honor each other's differences of outlook. If it seems that this is not going to work, I smile and ask, "Well, anyway, how are the kids?" and drop it. My ego is not dependant on converting anyone else to my philosophy. Life's too short, anyway.

114 posted on 09/16/2002 12:40:30 AM PDT by Misterioso
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To: mfulstone
John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father

Not every single Christian, even of the early church, went around flashing miracles every which way. That would, however, seem to be the way you are taking this quotation of Jesus Christ.

115 posted on 09/16/2002 2:14:40 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck
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To: mfulstone
Where I walk those signs follow me

P.S. can you furnish us with examples of this? I'm not saying it's impossible, but I suspect you wouldn't be posting on Free Republic if you were in a situation typical of those in which miracles are manifested today (i.e. remote areas with a lot of demonic activity, martyrdom, and great dangers).

116 posted on 09/16/2002 2:19:02 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck
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To: mfulstone
St Michael, The Archwhatever "Champion of the underdog,
Staunch Conservative,
Constitutionalist,
Poet,
Raconteur,
Philosopher
And avid bullslinger"

You slingin' bull???

117 posted on 09/16/2002 2:21:53 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck
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To: jstone78
hmmm, I wonder if the Jews who believed Jesus was the Messiah way back before his crucifiction were referrred to as Jews for Jesus? I suspect they got some pretty rough treatment. By the time Christianity was made the State Religion by Constantine they had stopped being persecuted and called things like Jews for Jesus and became Christians. Now they are back to Jews for Jesus. Nothing like reinventing the wheel over and over and over.
118 posted on 09/16/2002 2:56:20 AM PDT by wingnuts'nbolts
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To: Jorge
Folks like you make it very hard to explain to my Jewish friends how I can have Christian friends. Keep up the Good Work. /sarcasm

Thank you for illustrating my point. This sort of hostility toward Christians and their beliefs is exactly what I was talking about.

Thank you for illustrating my point.

119 posted on 09/16/2002 4:20:22 AM PDT by NativeNewYorker
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To: HiTech RedNeck
Thanks for your support at #103. As to other issues, if you go up to #63 and read the two articles there and the link at the bottom of it, you will see that within the Messianic movement is a sea of difference. Some are very Jewish and some are very Christian. The former would resist the idea that they "converted." We could go into this and other issues you raised at great length but don't have time now.
120 posted on 09/16/2002 4:41:25 AM PDT by 2sheep
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To: NativeNewYorker; 2sheep; Yehuda; Prodigal Daughter
The more aggressive the sales pitch, the more pushy the spirit... a spirit that does not take rejection very well. It must be an ego thing to *win* souls... it looks more like some sort of spiritual lotto or bingo game, rather than a love for one's fellow man. Creepy. I see that the Jews are rightfully leery of these shenanigans. There are several complaints in this thread about taking verses out of context. Well here's something that'll frost 'em:

Acts 28:27-29

27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles JEWS, and that they will hear it.
29 And when he had said these words, the Jews CHURCH departed, and had great reasoning among themselves.


Jeremiah 23:5-6 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth. In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

121 posted on 09/16/2002 5:46:21 AM PDT by Thinkin' Gal
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To: rdb3
It is weak reasoning to make a comparison between an ideological stance (Jews for or against Jesus) which can be altered at will and genetic traits (skin color, etc...) which cannot (except by the idiotic Michael Jackson method) be altered given current medical techonology.
122 posted on 09/16/2002 5:49:44 AM PDT by ReadMyMind
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To: ReadMyMind
It is weak reasoning to make a comparison between an ideological stance (Jews for or against Jesus) which can be altered at will and genetic traits (skin color, etc...) which cannot (except by the idiotic Michael Jackson method) be altered given current medical techonology.

True both in the former and latter. But I was referring to the former here. Messianic Jews take the hit as being "not authentically Jewish" for their ideological (religious) stance as conservative blacks take hits as being "not authentically black" for their ideological (political) stance.

Putrid nonsense, the both of them.

123 posted on 09/16/2002 5:56:39 AM PDT by rdb3
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To: rdb3
Re: your #123: BIG bump. Well said.
124 posted on 09/16/2002 5:58:35 AM PDT by RightOnline
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To: HiTech RedNeck; 2sheep
One thing I am very curious about -- why would an organization which is straining so hard to distinguish its Jewish character as opposed to the "Christian Church," lean on a Bible translation that is the product of the Anglicans? If they claim they are distinct, they really ought to have their own translation. The Anglican church, which produced the KJV, would be hopelessly pagan in their view, what with their Christmas and Easter celebrations.

Which organization are you referring to? Jews for Jesus or other Messianic groups? A Hispanic Messianic congregation that I know has several members who are fluent in Hebrew and read from the Hebrew Text and simultaneously translate when not reading from the Reina Valera which is the 1569 Spanish translation with a revision in 1602, of the Masoretic Text and Textus Receptus BECAUSE like its English counterpart, the KJV, its translators feared G-d, did a very painstaking job of translating, and didn't try to soften or pervert the message, unlike some of the newer perversions. Bible Gateway.com says: The Reina-Valera Antigua was first translated and published in 1569 by Casiodoro de Reina, after twelve years of intensive work, and later put out in 1602 in revised form by Cipriano de Valera, who gave more than twenty years of his life to its revision and improvement. The NIV translating team had 100 "scholars" from 20 denominations (how ecumenical!) working for ten years, but many of those scholars weren't translators, they were editorial reviewers and stylistic reviewers. Well, betcha by golly wow!

125 posted on 09/16/2002 6:01:46 AM PDT by Prodigal Daughter
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To: Prodigal Daughter
I see I'm not the only one here who avoids the NIV like the plague.
126 posted on 09/16/2002 6:11:15 AM PDT by rdb3
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To: Thinkin' Gal
A woman at the grocery store told me her son-in-law just got fired from a decent job because every day in the lunchroom he preached. Coworkers got sick of him, and when warned by his supervisor, he refused to stop. So....fired. Now, he's asking mom-in-law to support him and the kiddies. This guy doesn't have all his marbles, far as I'm concerned.
127 posted on 09/16/2002 6:23:49 AM PDT by WaterDragon
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To: jstone78
Religious proselytizing is and should remain a protected form of free speech. Jews who oppose Jews for Jesus have a right to shun them or speak out out against them. However, they do not have, and should never obtain, the right to suppress free speech that offends them.
128 posted on 09/16/2002 6:28:52 AM PDT by faintpraise
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To: jstone78
there's a new group starting up called Christians for Mohammed, which is coming to speak at your church next week. They are Christians, but believe that Mohammed superseded everything the Christians hold dear, so that the Christians need to accept Mohammed's teachings, or burn for an eternity in Hell. I hope you will welcome them with open arms, there are several dozen of them, and they have lists of phone numbers of people in your congregation and will be contacting each of you. Enjoy, and remember, they are Christians, so they are just like you. Here's a Koran.
129 posted on 09/16/2002 6:39:52 AM PDT by babble-on
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To: jstone78
Let me know when the conversation gets around to Muslims proselitizing in America. I was brought up to be tolerant of all religions, but they didn't tell me that one of the 3 biggest religions wants to take over the world and convert people by the sword, and they would be, in my lifetime, actively trying to take over my country.

To me, the threat posed by "Jews for Jesus" to mainstream Judaism is nothing compared to this.

130 posted on 09/16/2002 6:41:53 AM PDT by Kenton
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To: pocat
I remember when Pat Robertson (I know - he's a goof) was having those fundraisers for Russian Jews to move to Israel after the USSR dissolved.

With the ultimate goal of hastening The End, no doubt. You do realise that this is an important, but little-advertised reason for our ardent support of Israel?Not the only reason for sure, but it's certainly there. It's certainly the only use some so-called "Christians" have for Jews - cannon fodder for the Apocalypse.

I thought "Wow - the Jews must really like this guy." About a week later, I heard someone on TV calling him "anti-semitic" for one reason or another.

Probably revolving around some of the claims he's made in his books regarding "international bankers," etc. Unfortunately, that's code for "Jews." Whether Robertson meant it that way I don't know.

Snidely

131 posted on 09/16/2002 6:49:32 AM PDT by Snidely Whiplash
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To: jstone78; 2sheep; Thinkin' Gal
The one group of Jewish-Americans who endure more religious bigotry than any other group, are Jews who believe in Jesus as the Messiah. They are called Messianic Jews.

Messianic Jews are persecuted throughout the world, and I understand that half a million of them were among the victims of the gas chambers of the Holocaust, HOWEVER, Jewish congregations have every right to be anti-missionary, at least while we still have religious freedom in the USA. And I don't blame them one bit! Where are these millions of dollars coming from? We are to pray for Israel, not spend millions of dollars to aggressively "convert them". Messianic Jews who have at their disposal millions of dollars, and join up with popular ecumenical, fundamentalist groups such as WOF and PK, are NOT part of the group of persecuted Messianic Jews. I know some persecuted Messianic Sephardic Jews and they are being persecuted by their evangelical, fundamentalist and/or Catholic relatives and friends, not by any Orthodox, conservative or reformed Jews.

132 posted on 09/16/2002 6:59:37 AM PDT by Prodigal Daughter
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To: rdb3
I see I'm not the only one here who avoids the NIV like the plague.

I used to read the NIV, thinking that the KJV was complicated, until one day I was following along with a radio program that was reading from the NIV, but I couldn't find my NIV, so I picked up my grandma's old KJV. Something definitely "clicked" in my spirit when I started to read the KJV, not to mention that the NIV passage they were reading from used the word "slaves" where the KJV used "servants". That's when I started to investigate the NIV. It's a good translation for liberals who like to say things like "the Bible prohibitions of sins like homosexuality are outdated because after all, 'the Bible also permits slavery'." NOT QUITE! They forget to mention that in the Bible, there were laws regarding the treatment of strangers, exiles, slaves and servants, and archaeological excavations of gravesites of early Christians proves that the early Christians freed their bondservants and referred to them as brothers, while pagan civilizations were still torturing and killing slaves.

133 posted on 09/16/2002 7:13:27 AM PDT by Prodigal Daughter
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To: Thinkin' Gal; NativeNewYorker; 2sheep; Yehuda; jstone78
Bump for 121! I don't know if this link Mission Portland (referenced by Torah Atlanta) is officially affiliated with Jews for Jesus of Portland, but Mission Portland looks like one well-funded broad ecumenical, unbiblical aggressive lovefest. Imagine that! Portland where Christians like the Christines and others are PERSECUTED! Where was MissionPortland?

And as far as Torah Atlanta being anti-Christian bigots, As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are BELOVED for the fathers' sakes. FOR THE GIFTS AND CALLING OF GOD ARE WITHOUT REPENTANCE. Romans 11:28-29 emphasis mine.

For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. Romans 11:32

It's too bad that those millions of dollars aren't being spent to sustain and protect beloved Israel from the threat of Islamic terrorists.

134 posted on 09/16/2002 7:36:08 AM PDT by Prodigal Daughter
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To: 2sheep
It appears you are still following the cultist known as Gene Scott. Does he still smoke cigars?

Is one of the criteria for being a "cultist" smoking cigars, in your mind?

135 posted on 09/16/2002 8:17:18 AM PDT by William Terrell
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To: jstone78
Yeah, that's right. I'm by no means a religious scholar, but I'm pretty sure that before the big flush, Israel and America will be the 'last men standing'.
But I'm thinking now, man, if these two groups can't get along, what hope for the rest?
136 posted on 09/16/2002 8:19:29 AM PDT by angry beaver norbert
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To: 2sheep
You know I am in the habit of making long full text KJB quotes.

No, I don't follow your ranting.  Are you famous or something that I should know you?

This thread has a strong stream of anti-semitism running through it


I sense you have a habit of yelling "anti-semitism" whenever your reckless scribbling is challenged.  That speaks volumes.

A special place in Hell is reserved for people who reword the Bible to say what they want it to say!  Kindly be a little more careful next time.
137 posted on 09/16/2002 9:06:48 AM PDT by Mare Tranquilitatus
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To: HiTech RedNeck
Now if 2sheep had put that commentary in italics to look exactly like a quotation, he would deserve to have his head handed to him (regardless of whether the interpretation was right or wrong).

I accept your point.  He only implied it was a direct quotation.  Since it appeared in the same format as his other prior quotations it was easy to assume he just forgot the quotes.

Too bad his follow up comments did not point out this ambiguity but instead resorted to a personal attack. But then, that appears to be his style.  It masks whatever good thinking he may have to offer.
138 posted on 09/16/2002 9:15:58 AM PDT by Mare Tranquilitatus
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To: rdb3
Ok, when you include the conservative ideological stance as the reason for the denial of your racial identity, I agree with you, it is an apt analogy.

I'll state, lamely, in my defense that I didn't see anything in your original post to determine the reason your racial identity was being questioned and I assumed it was due to physical characteristics, not ideology.
139 posted on 09/16/2002 12:44:37 PM PDT by ReadMyMind
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To: ReadMyMind
I'll state, lamely, in my defense that I didn't see anything in your original post to determine the reason your racial identity was being questioned and I assumed it was due to physical characteristics, not ideology.

That's okay. We just talked past each other. It's cool (waiving my two fingers towards you right in front of my eyes). That means we're "right here" now.

140 posted on 09/16/2002 1:00:40 PM PDT by rdb3
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To: jstone78
Portland’s Jewish community has mobilized to resist a two-week assault by Jews for Jesus who will unleash a sizeable squad of trained proselytizers on the city at the beginning of June.

WWIII is upon us

former Eugene rabbi who now specializes in combating Jews for Jesus returned to Oregon May 7 and 8 to help the Jewish community here prepare for the assault.

He's the equivalent of a Navy Seal.
141 posted on 09/16/2002 1:05:45 PM PDT by Michael2001
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To: sfwarrior
Most Jewish organizations and most Jews dislike Christians, This is a fact. I know, I'm Jewish.

Since most American Jews end up marrying someone who is Christian, they probably don't dislike Christians. And I am not Jewish.
142 posted on 09/16/2002 1:11:26 PM PDT by Michael2001
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To: Snidely Whiplash
Ah, yes - the "International Bankers" code. I bet Robertson and his cult also have a secret handshake when they meet secretly to conspire against the Jews...

Isn't it funny that both sides of the political spectrum are always accusing each other of being conspiritorial?

I just wish that liberal Jews would give the "anti-semitic" label a rest. All freepers here who dislike Barbara Striesand (99.9%) could be branded with the scarlet "A" just for disagreeing with her politics. Think that's a stretch? Tell that to the music critic who wrote a negative review of her concert and was immediately attacked by the leftists as a bigot.

143 posted on 09/16/2002 2:31:00 PM PDT by pocat
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To: mfulstone
If you cannot understand the gospel of the kingdom, how can you understand those other scriptures you quote?

I quoted the scriptures that prove Jesus and His disciples clearly claimed there is NO OTHER WAY to God but through Him.
I also showed you that Jesus stated this applied to Jews.

Even a child can understand what those verses say.

These scriptures clearly prove you are wrong when you said the Bible didn't teach the Jews need to believe in Jesus to be saved.

Obviously you cannot challenge any of these scriptures, and instead have gone on a disconnected rant about the definition of "kingdom".

The rest of your post only gets worse;

Where I walk those signs follow me. God tells me I'm on the right path. I am not alone - there are others who know of which I speak and walk as I walk.

Are you trying to make me laugh on purpose or what?
It is clear that you are having a hard time articulating a coherant response to my posts.

Once again;
Jesus said "NO MAN cometh unto the Father but by Me" (John 14:6)
Jesus told the religious Jews that didn't accept Him as Messiah;
"You shall die in your sins. If you believe that I am not He, you shall die in your sins" (John 8:24)
"Neither is there salvation in any other. For there is no other name under heaven given unto men, whereby we must be saved" (Acts 4:12)
Jesus also told the religious Jews who rejected Him; "If God were your father you would love me".
"You are of your father the Devil"
( John 8:42-44)
Like it or not the scriptures clearly teach the Jews must accept Jesus to be saved.

144 posted on 09/16/2002 4:31:17 PM PDT by Jorge
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To: All; Prodigal Daughter; Thinkin' Gal; babylonian; Crazymonarch; Zad; Fred Mertz; Sir Gawain; ...
What I posted in #63 above has demons raging to the point they want the messenger (me) to be "permanently banned," sent "to hell," and "have his head handed him."  It has tweaked a spirit of Murder, the same spirit as in the Inquisition which murdered Jews and Christians who would not submit to pagan sungod worship.  Are we seeing the Inquisition again?  Just who is being hateful and twisting things?  Who is the accuser?*  Let each person decide.
4567. *Satanas
Search for G4567 in KJVSL
satanaV Satanas sat-an-as'
of Chaldee origin corresponding to 4566 (with the definite affix);
the accuser, i.e. the devil:--Satan.
Demons saying they come in peace and tranquillity have filled what represents itself to be the temple and require others to bow to their judgment, i.e. submit.  It isn't only Islam that means submission.  This is today, not the Roman or Spanish Inquisition.  We will serve no god but the L~rd and Him only.

The enemies of G~d have been provoked because I pointed out that Replacement Theology is false and Christians are not supposed to exalt themselves over and above Jews lest they be cut off .  Demons are raging because they want people to continue to be deceived.  Replacement Theology is antisemitic and those who hold to it need to repent of it in every form, and inspect their other doctrines as well to see how they incorporate antisemitism.  Some people should seek deliverance from demons.

Antisemites are without the Spirit, without understanding and are themselves under a curse of G~d.  Antisemitism is also a "fruit" to inspect to see if another is true or false.  We are not to have fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness even if they claim that they are "a Christian."  Ye shall know them by their fruits.  Who? False prophets.  To continue to argue with such is just arguing with demons.  The scripture says, "from such turn away" (2Ti 3:5) and "shake the dust" for your feet.  Mr 6:11.

Mt 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

145 posted on 09/16/2002 7:55:02 PM PDT by 2sheep
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To: 2sheep
You 2sheep are doing fine and will continue to.
146 posted on 09/16/2002 8:02:35 PM PDT by Fred Mertz
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To: MarkL
Jesus and all of the early Believers were Jewish and were labled "Christians" (Christ-like) by the Romans. Jesus spoke in the Synagogues as did Peter, Paul, James and the other apostles. The first Believers frequently met in homes, much later they established churches, or places of worship. Jews for Jesus is an accurate name.

I've always found it odd that "christianity" is considered a western religion. Christianity was born in Bethlehem and preached in Europe and parts of Asia long before moving west.
147 posted on 09/16/2002 8:24:51 PM PDT by Sweet Hour of Prayer
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To: jstone78
The New Testament calls on us to preach the Good News to all of the world. If the gospel of Christ is good enough to be preached to Hindus, Moslems and Buddhists, why not to our Jewish friends and neighbors?

Why don't you mind your own f***ing business.

If you think your God is peachy, great... then worship him and shut the hell up.

148 posted on 09/16/2002 8:30:13 PM PDT by montag813
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To: jstone78; aristeides; NativeNewYorker; Jorge; drlevy88; ET(end tyranny); ReadMyMind; 2sheep; ...
"the Jews for Jesus use aggressive prosyletizing to target disenfranchised or unaffiliated Jews, Russian immigrants and college students. He said their techniques are manipulative, deceptive and anti-Semitic. "

As a RW Orthodox American Jew I support the evangelical rights of Christians. As a RW Orthodox American Jew I defend, applaud, and encourage Jews to resist the deceptive cowards in Jews for Jesus.

jfj are cowards because they don't put 1% of the effort or $ to convert Muslims, something I would support wholeheartedly. They are a billion muslim worldwide - go for it. Big bucks in it too.

JfJ don't have the b*lls to go after knowledgeable Jews, they only go after the uneducated and unaffiliated, pretending they are just Jews and dropping in Jesus as an afterthought; "oh, btw, you can accept Jesus as the Messiah and still be Jewish," which is a lie. Reform, Conservative and Orthodox Judaism share the tenet that we are still waiting for Moshiach. You may disagree whether the Messiah has come once, but stop LYING to Jews about a core factor in Jewish belief and observance; it only reveals that your "product" is lousy if you need to deceive to sell it.

A Jewish apostate can still have matrilineal descent as a Jew, but Judaism, and "being Jewish beyond lox and bagels " does not include Jesus as the Messiah.

You want to think he's your messiah, I will defend that right for you; but don't lie and deceive people of my faith to achieve your goal of wiping out Judaism; as my father fought the nazis, I will also defend my faith (with my life, if necessary).

PS - "Rather than driving Jews to extinction through assimilation, messianic congregations help to retain intact Jewish communities."

BS - Observant Jewish communities reach out to unaffiliated Jews, and they don't LIE & DECEIVE to bring them back into observance. You statement is a PERFECT example of the propaganda used to deceive uneducated Jews.

Jews who accept Jesus have opted out of Jewish communal life and observance - they cannot be married to other Jews in a Jewish ceremony, only in a Christian, jfj or secular environment - ditto for burial. And when they have kids, they have drifted even further from the practice of Judaism. And THOSE children cannot marry other Jews in a Jewish ceremony without converting back. I doubt you tell your prospects these facts.

Grow some stones and go after the muslims - they are the ones trying to kill Christians AND Jews.

And do yourselves a favor, jfj - if they know what's good for them, your purple-tshirted little friends will stay the heck out of NYC; after 9/11, I might displace my anger and find I am in the mood to tear up another thousand of your leaflets like I did the last time y'all were here..
149 posted on 09/16/2002 9:14:17 PM PDT by Yehuda
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To: babble-on
BTTT
150 posted on 09/16/2002 9:18:21 PM PDT by Yehuda
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