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US studies 'Iraqi chemical war plan'
The Times (U.K.) ^ | 09/21/2002 | Shyam Bhatia

Posted on 09/20/2002 4:44:04 PM PDT by Pokey78

US intelligence experts are examining a top secret document sent to Iraqi military commanders on Saddam Hussein’s orders that appears to confirm that they have a chemical arsenal and are prepared to use it.

The 23-page military order allegedly instructs local commanders that, in the event of the Iraqi regime facing defeat in a war, the officers are free to use their own initiative and unleash chemical weapons.

Signed by the head of the Iraqi Navy, it talks of preparations that must be made for a “chemical battle” between Iraqi and US forces. It also allegedly includes details of the radio-coded messages for the use of chemical weapons.

If intelligence specialists authenticate this document, it will provide evidence that can be shown to the United Nations of how Saddam Hussein has lied about stockpiling chemical weapons and his willingness to see his forces use them. US officials have not yet decided whether to include this document in the dossier they are preparing for President Bush to show Iraq’s continuing deception over its weapons of mass destruction.

Parliament is being recalled next week when Tony Blair will reveal to MPs what British Intelligence has discovered about Saddam’s chemical, biological and nuclear weapons. It is not known if this document has been passed to British experts for analysis.

Last night a senior US official in Washington said: “We are taking this very seriously.”

He confirmed to The Times that intelligence specialists were still investigating the document and what it revealed about Saddam’s chemical capabilities.

“We are studying the contents very carefully to see what it tells us about Saddam’s military contingency planning,” the source said.

The document was handed to the White House last month when Iraqi Opposition leaders were invited to Washington.

Dick Cheney, the Vice-President, took part in the meeting on a video link from his ranch and instructed senior officials to carefully examine the intercepted military order.

Senior officials from the State and Defence Department were present at these talks.

Reportedly sent in March, it details the five military zones inside Iraq and the circumstances in which military commanders of these areas will be free to use their initiative on using the chemical weapons they have at their disposal.

It is allegedly signed by Staff Lieutenant General Yahiya Taha Huwaish, the commander of the Iraqi Navy.

Below his signature is that of Chemical Lieutenant Colonel Qasim Hamoud Slayih, Staff Chemical Officer of the naval forces.

The Iraqis are careful in the communiqué not to talk about the specific chemical toxins they have in their arsenal. Experts say the reference to “preparations” and the use of the word battle rather than attack suggests Saddam could have been readying his chemical weapons for deployment as far back as March.

One of those who attended the White House meeting in August was Dr Hamid Bayati, London representative of the Supreme Council for Islamic Revolution.

He was a member of his group’s three-man team led by Abdul Aziz Hakim that was part of a large Iraqi Opposition delegation who briefed Dick Cheney. They included representatives from Dr Ahmed Chalabi’s Iraqi National Congress, Ayad Alawi’s Iraqi National Accord and the two Kurdish parties the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan, led by Jalal Talebani, and the Kurdish Democratic Party, led by Masoud Barzani. Also present was Sharif Ali, head of the Iraqi Constitutional Monarchists group.

Dr Bayati said: “The document is marked top secret, then it says Navy Forces Command Training Department. It lists the military units this order should be distributed to.”

US officials will want to ensure the accuracy of the communiqué before using it to persuade sceptical members on the UN Security Council that it is reason not to trust Iraq over its apparent compliance with weapons inspectors.

Intelligence chiefs will also want to discover if this document provides any clues as to where these weapons might be found, which UN inspectors could then demand to visit.

Despite the efforts of UN inspectors from 1991 until they were expelled in December 1998, Saddam is believed to have secretly hidden his stores of deadly nerve gas, such as sarin and tabun, as well as mustard gas. According to Iraqi defectors, production of these three agents was resumed immediately after the expulsion of the inspectors.

What is most alarming is the addition of sufficient quantities of another and even more deadly nerve agent, VX.

“Saddam had about 250 tonnes of precursor chemicals to make VX and refused to hand them over to the UN inspectors,” said Dr Hussain Shahristani, a former chief scientific adviser to the Iraqi Atomic Energy Commission who now heads the Iraqi Refugee Aid Council in London.


TOPICS: Breaking News; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS:

1 posted on 09/20/2002 4:44:04 PM PDT by Pokey78
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To: Thud
ping
2 posted on 09/20/2002 4:50:05 PM PDT by Dark Wing
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To: Pokey78
If true, it's the smoking gun!
3 posted on 09/20/2002 4:50:54 PM PDT by CROSSHIGHWAYMAN
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To: Pokey78; All
Let's cross-link:

Links to information on Iraqi Nuclear Weapons Systems and Design (VERY Scary!)

IRAQ- some links to terror

4 posted on 09/20/2002 4:53:25 PM PDT by backhoe
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Comment #5 Removed by Moderator

To: Pokey78
officers are free to use their own initiative and unleash chemical weapons

If I was one of those officers I would say screw you Saddam this is your war not mine. I don't want to get nuked.

6 posted on 09/20/2002 5:04:31 PM PDT by McGruff
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To: Pokey78
Good plan, Iraq. I see your chem weapons and raise you an arsenal of thermonuclear warheads. Still wanna play?
7 posted on 09/20/2002 5:04:36 PM PDT by Excuse_My_Bellicosity
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To: Pokey78; Big Steve; blackie; nickcarraway; CWOJackson; Deb
Great info! I think it's interesting that somebody in their military passed this info on to the Iraqi Opposition! That's also very encouraging!
8 posted on 09/20/2002 5:06:21 PM PDT by Lady In Blue
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To: Pokey78
Paging Jane Ritter, paging Jane Ritter....
9 posted on 09/20/2002 5:07:04 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: Pokey78
"If intelligence specialists authenticate this document, it will provide evidence that can be shown to the United Nations of how Saddam Hussein has lied about stockpiling chemical weapons and his willingness to see his forces use them."

It's irrelevant what the UN thinks about this, action still will be taken to stifle it.
The UN is to reactive and not proactive enough to have any use for this info.
10 posted on 09/20/2002 5:26:08 PM PDT by EGPWS
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To: Pokey78; hchutch
The 23-page military order allegedly instructs local commanders that, in the event of the Iraqi regime facing defeat in a war, the officers are free to use their own initiative and unleash chemical weapons.

If true, then more folks than Saddam have the "go codes" for the WMDs.

I believe this account is close to the mark. Whatever Saddam's internal paranoia, his hatred and megalomania compel him to have doomsday scenarios if anything should happen to him. Absurd as it may seem, he would embrace such a legacy.

Saddam Hussein didn't make a life's work of acquiring WMDs only to die without them being used against his enemies.




11 posted on 09/20/2002 6:09:15 PM PDT by Sabertooth
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To: Sabertooth; Poohbah
But if, on the first night of the war, leaflets are dropped warning of the response (tactical nukes), then the commanders might hestitate or decide not to.

Furthermore, what of the rumors of questionable loyalty among the Republican Guard? Poohbah might know a fair amount of info on this. Let's see what he has to say.
12 posted on 09/20/2002 6:25:26 PM PDT by hchutch
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To: hchutch
I'm certain loyalty is questionable among the Republican Guard, but we cant count on absolute disloyalty.

And then there are Uday and Qusay Hussein, who went from diapers to maniacal despots-in-waiting.



13 posted on 09/20/2002 6:29:21 PM PDT by Sabertooth
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To: Pokey78
I suspect this is just a further ploy by the Iraqi madmen thinking it will deter us from attacking them.
14 posted on 09/20/2002 6:47:10 PM PDT by OldFriend
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To: Pokey78
These Iraqi officers must have heard of Nuremberg: their fate would be to hang by the neck until very dead, should they obey this order.

I doubt that any would risk it, if they saw the war was being lost anyway.

15 posted on 09/20/2002 6:59:36 PM PDT by RANGERAIRBORNE
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To: Pokey78
US officials will want to ensure the accuracy of the communiqué before using it to persuade sceptical members on the UN Security Council that it is reason not to trust Iraq over its apparent compliance with weapons inspectors.

Nonsense. There is no way to prove the authencity of something like this. Those who wish to dismiss it will do so. Only the deaths of tens of thousands will persuade the ideological doubters that there is any threat at all.

We will have to make our own assessment of this, and proceed accordingly. It does not matter what a bunch of perfumed princes at the UN think about it.


16 posted on 09/20/2002 7:15:24 PM PDT by Nick Danger
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To: Pokey78
Will all Saddam's top people wish to be part of a collective suicide pact? They can either surrender fast, kill Saddam and his Cabinet, or be killed if they follow Saddam's orders.Wait until these jokers see the Highway of Death Part Deux...
17 posted on 09/20/2002 7:15:32 PM PDT by habs4ever
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To: Pokey78
“Saddam had about 250 tonnes of precursor chemicals to make VX and refused to hand them over to the UN inspectors,” said Dr Hussain Shahristani, a former chief scientific adviser to the Iraqi Atomic Energy Commission who now heads the Iraqi Refugee Aid Council in London.

Hey, I want to hear from more Libertines and AntiWar.Com people about how Bush has no proof, he's reckless, blahblahblah.

Hey, anyone remember the big American anti-war movement before Pearl Harbor? It WAS pretty vociferous, but don't feel bad you haven't really heard anything about it.

That's what happens when you're not only irrelevant, but dead WRONG.

18 posted on 09/20/2002 7:26:53 PM PDT by Illbay
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To: Pokey78; Sabertooth; Sawdring; Paul Ross; belmont_mark; ex-snook; DoughtyOne; Askel5; Scholastic; ..
This is exactly what I have been predicting for the last several weeks that the Iraqis would likely do if the US invades Iraq with the aim of taking out Saddam. As I said back in August, we need to give him an out or he is going to use WMD and kill thousands of US troops because he has nothing to lose. Interestingly enough, it appears that Rummy was thinking the same thing as I was as he broached my idea of exile and amnesty for Saddam if he and his family leaves Iraq. He said that was the only way for Iraq to avoid a US invasion.
19 posted on 09/20/2002 8:03:41 PM PDT by rightwing2
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To: Sabertooth
You have a point.

Still, the ones who can't be "bought" probably can be intimidated. We treat chemical and biological weapons as if they were nuclear weapons. A lot of leaflets reminding them of that fact might have an effect.

As for Saddam's brats (the way I refer to Uday and Qusay), well, we need to take that whole family down. Or at least flush them out.

I've always felt that we should try NOT to fight in the cities, but instead merely secure the oilfields. At that point, Saddam will have no choice but to come out and fight (imagine the loyalty problems he will have to deal with should the paychecks for his troops start to bounce). A bunch of those folks dictators use as security guards are little more than "Sammy the Bull" Gravano in fancy uniforms. And if they think they're being sold out, one just might decide to cut a deal...

Ergo, Saddam would HAVE To send his troops to take back his oilfields and to regain his source of income. Once we get them into the open, and then we'll have the USAF deal with the Republican Guard - starting with the command posts to kill THOSE "go" signals before things start.
20 posted on 09/20/2002 8:24:26 PM PDT by hchutch
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To: Pokey78
Katie Couric and Tom Daschle want more proof. Scott Ritter is mystified (or drunk).
21 posted on 09/20/2002 8:38:56 PM PDT by doug from upland
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To: rightwing2
I have many reasons to believe this time around in Iraq will not involve a conventional ground force.

I believe the 'theater' will be contaminated.

The US will do the heavy bombing of all military targets and strangle to country until its people do the job on Sodom.

Well, that's how I would like to see it done anyway.

22 posted on 09/20/2002 8:50:51 PM PDT by PFKEY
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To: Excuse_My_Bellicosity
I worry more about the WMD Saddam has already hidden in the USA, with directins to the caches to be given to terrorist sleepers in the event of his overthrow.
23 posted on 09/20/2002 8:56:09 PM PDT by Travis McGee
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To: Pokey78
Does Iraq have a Navy?
24 posted on 09/20/2002 9:07:04 PM PDT by TheGunny
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To: Nick Danger
I would like to have more info on how this document came into our possesion , given the rumors of shaky support of the elites in Iraq may have inspired some officer in a headquarters to send a copy to someone outside the HQ as a way of insuring good treatment of same officer/family after the destruction of the Iraqi military
25 posted on 09/20/2002 9:48:42 PM PDT by Nebr FAL owner
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To: RANGERAIRBORNE
Actually the U.S. policy is to reply with nuclear weapons i.e. the oficers in question won't hang they will simply register on gieger counters as they float around the upper reaches of the atmosphere for years to come as radioactive fallout
26 posted on 09/20/2002 9:53:51 PM PDT by Nebr FAL owner
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To: Travis McGee
Seems as though freepers have forgotten that Sadam used chems in the First Gulf War.

Remember the Checz monitors going off?

Remember Gulf War Syndrome?

Remember how Powell,Schratzkopf and Cheny have been such wonderfull advocates for their sick soldiers?

But, not to worry!

All the above creeps will be safe in their bunkers when the retalitory stuff hits our homeland!
27 posted on 09/20/2002 11:45:48 PM PDT by Betty Jo
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To: Pokey78
"...in the event of the Iraqi regime facing defeat in a war, the officers are free to use their own initiative and unleash chemical weapons."

What officer would be so stupid? If your losing the war that means, um, that the enemy is winning. If you use chemical weapons on the winners they are going to hold you responsible.

28 posted on 09/21/2002 12:51:37 AM PDT by TheLooseThread
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To: Pokey78
I wonder who he plans to execute today for this?

You gotta love this psychological warfare. His commanders will be wondering what else we have :)

29 posted on 09/21/2002 1:59:28 AM PDT by Lion's Cub
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To: Travis McGee
I worry more about the WMD Saddam has already hidden in the USA, with directins to the caches to be given to terrorist sleepers in the event of his overthrow.

Agreed. Our troops can be prepared for this contingency. Can Manhattan?

30 posted on 09/21/2002 7:27:47 AM PDT by Paul Ross
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To: TheGunny
Does Iraq have a Navy?

I was wondering the same thing.

31 posted on 09/21/2002 7:28:42 AM PDT by Paul Ross
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To: Lady In Blue
Snuff Saddam, NOW !!

Death To all Tyrant's !!

The Second Amendment...
America's Original Homeland Security !!

Molon Labe !!

32 posted on 09/21/2002 8:56:16 AM PDT by blackie
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To: Pokey78



33 posted on 09/21/2002 9:39:12 AM PDT by vannrox
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To: Lady In Blue
Sounds like disinformation to me. Designed to scare the US and weak allies off of invading. Is it likely that local commanders have WMD and the authority to use them without codes from Baghdad? With that paranoid in office?

Plus, you gotta figure the head of the Iraqi navy is a very important man. Three dinghys and a rowboat. What is he doing ordering the ground pounders around.

This one seems fishy.

34 posted on 09/21/2002 12:59:23 PM PDT by ffrancone
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To: Pokey78
He knows his chemicals won't kill our troops...but mostly his citizens, who he will enjoy leaving behind dead, and blaming us. He relies on his brothers in surrounding countries to take his revenge.

However, if we DO announce that chem/bio is a nuke in our eyes, and the only way to protect the world from it IS a nuke...

As for what's already in other countries...including here...I guess getting it over with and building from the rubble is best, rather than dying the Death of a Thousand Cuts, slowly...whenever they want to open a drum. We just can't afford to let people run around with this stuff, thinking they can get away with it. They must be made to know they are now international criminals, and will die along with their families and countries. They won't fear us if they don't fear us. It's a good day to start. They did and are treading on us all...so now we slither away...waiting for more...or bite, hard and brutally. If their countries are so unfortunate as to endure such criminality, and the world community so spineless and corrupt as to be their handmaidens...I guess those citizens....as were ours on 9-11...are marked for death. Can we really let tons of poisons spill out into our planet's atmosphere...because of political foolishness and worse....or do we INCINERATE the entire place the instant we detect poison? Better it burns on THEIR land, than anyone else's. Then it's just an international criminal matter. NO other country will ever dare to pull this shameful criminality again...if we remove a lot of those who do. As for our Euro friends...their disgraceful squabbles have cost us enough innocent blood to earn them our backs forever. Time to be a superpower, and clean house without permission. Daddy's home.

When you smoke out a snake...it wants to bite, and fight. Do we really want to wait for them, these criminals...to show us mercy? What's our option....a return to the 7th. century? Did we come here, and endure all this...for that? What deal are we being offered, other than enslavement or death? These people are idiots, now globally-dangerous and bloody idiots...and only death will prevent them. I hope their children survive. Their parents are excrement, and will be flushed, necessarily. It is the only way...and we didn't choose it. They lose.

Probably the main reason England is marginally with us again is that they are an island. Europe is still full of superior wisdom, isn't it. I keep reminding foreign people why we ignite explosives on the 4th. of July....we have had it with their ideas, failures, presence among us. It's a warning to them all. Don't pull your crap here.

35 posted on 09/21/2002 1:10:38 PM PDT by PoorMuttly
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To: Betty Jo
what are checz monitors and do you have any info on use of chemical weapons in 1991? I thought it definitely did not occur. Hasn't General Schwarzkopf testified so?
36 posted on 09/21/2002 10:29:21 PM PDT by bonesmccoy
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To: Travis McGee
me too!
37 posted on 09/21/2002 10:29:51 PM PDT by bonesmccoy
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To: bonesmccoy
"CZECH" monitors.

Why would I believe Swartzkopf?

I'm going to go google for some url's on chems used in Gulf 1.

There was a huge body of evidence divulged after the war ended.

It's all wrapped up in the Gulf Syndrome fiasco.
38 posted on 09/22/2002 9:20:03 AM PDT by Betty Jo
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To: bonesmccoy; Travis McGee
http://mediafilter.org/caq/Caq53.gws.html

Here's an article to use as a start.

39 posted on 09/22/2002 9:45:02 AM PDT by Betty Jo
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To: Paul Ross
Look what 5 grams of anthrax did last October, and imagine 100 kilos.
40 posted on 09/22/2002 2:42:41 PM PDT by Travis McGee
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To: Betty Jo
Betty Jo,

I reviewed the web page you posted. There is really nothing in the story other than allegations of document mishandling. I am looking for a description of a specific event and the type of agent in the weapon. This would permit me to evaluate the likelihood of chronic effects from such exposure.

41 posted on 09/22/2002 3:34:27 PM PDT by bonesmccoy
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To: Betty Jo
Unfortunately, too much of the GWS 'fiasco' was fictional bullshiess generated by Physicians for Peace, etc. People associated with the Green Party and with assorted disarmament groups, leftist wackos whose agenda is such they want to ban all bioweapons research worldwide- but most particularly, our research. Nonetheless, they do occasionally squeal about bioweapons made by Iraq, even though their agenda is more aligned towards destroying ours.

Dr. Meryle Nass os one of the biggest agenda-driven jokers out there on GWS. I've seen people buy into her junk left and right, seen her crapposted as 'research' even here, but she is 100% pure RED LEFT.

Some of these peckerheads testified in front of congress as 'experts,' much as Hollywood actors testify as experts and with no more credibility.

42 posted on 09/22/2002 3:39:20 PM PDT by piasa
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To: bonesmccoy; piasa; OKCSubmariner; aristeides; Fred Mertz; Uncle Bill; Travis McGee; honway; ...
I went to the trouble of finding this website for you to use as a startup.

Bones, if you are a Doc, you surely can find in your med journals all that you want.

Piasa,if you think no armed force member has Gulf War Syndrome, get thee to GAO and their fraud hotline, because military members are being paid for their illlnesses.

The Bush Pres's have a problem,the elder has to say there was no bio-chem because of the promises he made about what he would do to Sadam if he used them.The younger Bush has to pay these troops because the bio-chems were used.

And I am supposed to believe these jokers now after 9/11 and into the future of Gulf War II.

They both and all government workers who help murder Americans can go to hell.
43 posted on 09/22/2002 10:12:54 PM PDT by Betty Jo
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To: Betty Jo
Betty Jo,

I am a physician and all the medical literature has concluded that there is NO SUCH THING AS GULF WAR SYNDROME.

I've been looking for actual documented cases and have never found any. Hence, I request actual documentation of the agents and the symptoms/signs of disease. This at least permits us to evaluate the physiologic plausibility of GWS.

44 posted on 09/22/2002 10:19:34 PM PDT by bonesmccoy
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