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Travelers...who, what and where are they?

Posted on 09/21/2002 8:52:13 PM PDT by Conservababe

Since the news and tape of Madelyne Gorman/Toogood's beating of her child has been made public, there seems to be much interest in posters that the mother was an Irish Traveler. I, myself, have done searches on the net to learn more of the Travelers or Gypsies in the USA. I have not found anything that is more interesting than that of the posters who have given their individual experiences with these people. But, it is so much fragmented in many threads. I am hoping that by starting this thread, Freepers can relate their experiences and knowlege of these people, the Travelers. I wish it not to discuss the mother or her actions, necessarily, but to discuss the nature of the clan or cult or whatever or whoever is the Travelers.

KEYWORDS: gorman; irish; toogood; travelers
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Feel free to comment on this interesting subject, to me, at least.
1 posted on 09/21/2002 8:52:13 PM PDT by Conservababe
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To: Conservobabe
and now I'm intrigued, what the heck are "The Travelers"?
2 posted on 09/21/2002 8:55:13 PM PDT by Lloyd227
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To: Conservobabe
Travelors used to be a pretty big insurance company.
3 posted on 09/21/2002 8:56:13 PM PDT by A CA Guy
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To: Lloyd227
That is what I am hoping to find out, Lloyd. Evidently, the mother was of an Irish clan of Travelers.
4 posted on 09/21/2002 8:57:57 PM PDT by Conservababe
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To: Conservobabe
Here's a post about them. The book "Scam!" is about The Travelers.
5 posted on 09/21/2002 8:58:43 PM PDT by lelio
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To: lelio
Thank you. I have read that thread. I am hoping to gather personal experiences with the Travelers/Gypsies to this thread. So many Freepers across the USA have encountered them in one incident or another.
6 posted on 09/21/2002 9:01:29 PM PDT by Conservababe
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To: Conservobabe
I think her mother is an Irish Setter.
7 posted on 09/21/2002 9:02:13 PM PDT by Abcdefg
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To: Conservobabe
They're gypsies who travel around the country doing handyman work. Unfortunately, they're also con men. They say they'll do something and then either do a crummy job or just skip out altogether. Their MO is stuff like going up to a target house -- usually the elderly -- and saying they were just driving by and noticed that they have a bad roof/chimney/whatever and "since they happen to have some materials left over from a job they just finished," they'll do the job cheap. Oh, and could you pay up front please.

The police look on them with extreme disfavor around here. They blow in en masse about once every five years or so, scam whoever they can and disappear without a trace...

8 posted on 09/21/2002 9:02:23 PM PDT by Black Cat
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To: Black Cat
Yes, I have heard that the Travelers are expecially expert in roofing and repaving jobs, that are never finished or are poorly done, if at all.
9 posted on 09/21/2002 9:04:57 PM PDT by Conservababe
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To: Conservobabe

KSU 27 USC 20 :-(

10 posted on 09/21/2002 9:06:12 PM PDT by hole_n_one
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To: Conservobabe
Feel free to comment on this interesting subject, to me, at least.

I've read they date back to the Williamson clan, a huge extended family that travels almost continuously doing various temporary work that sometimes results in scams.

11 posted on 09/21/2002 9:06:14 PM PDT by varina davis
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To: Conservobabe
Has anyone ever heard the Travelers talk in "cant", their secret language?
12 posted on 09/21/2002 9:06:53 PM PDT by Conservababe
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To: Conservobabe
I KNEW it! Said so the other day as soon as I got a look at the mom's face. The Traveler's are gypsy con men, contractors usually. They take your money and run. They're big on beauty paegants for 4 and 5 year old girls, and marrying their daughters off early. It's also no coincidence the mom was involved in shop lifting. That's another one of their specialties, as is insurance fraud. Not nice people. Poor girl.
13 posted on 09/21/2002 9:08:08 PM PDT by LibWhacker
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To: varina davis
Please, who and when were or are the Williamson clan?

I am wondering how Travelers can be nomadic in their SUVS, really. I mean, this is the modern world and they do not drive buggies as the Amish.

14 posted on 09/21/2002 9:11:26 PM PDT by Conservababe
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To: Conservobabe
Who gives a Tinker's Damn about the Travelers
15 posted on 09/21/2002 9:11:58 PM PDT by LoneRangerMassachusetts
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To: LibWhacker
Nice observation on your part. I have heard that the children of Travelers are trained at an early age to become proper theives.
16 posted on 09/21/2002 9:13:44 PM PDT by Conservababe
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To: Conservobabe
--the Williamsons were nationally notorious 45-50 years ago as gypsy travelling con artists--there was a major article on them in the old Saturday Evening Post in the mid fifties--
17 posted on 09/21/2002 9:17:38 PM PDT by rellimpank
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To: LoneRangerMassachusetts
I do. LOL I am of Irish people, Cork County. I know that my grandmother and grandfather, second generation Americans, used to refer to the peddler of salves and ointments who knocked on their door, as a "tinker". I am curious now as to who the man really was and what did they think of him, really. Dang, I was too young to know to ask. LOL
18 posted on 09/21/2002 9:18:55 PM PDT by Conservababe
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To: rellimpank
Ah ha, thank you so much for the information.
19 posted on 09/21/2002 9:20:15 PM PDT by Conservababe
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To: rellimpank
60 Minutes did a segment on the Travelers about five or so years ago.
20 posted on 09/21/2002 9:22:39 PM PDT by Age of Reason
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To: LibWhacker
They're big on beauty paegants for 4 and 5 year old girls, and marrying their daughters off early.

Okay, so I have seen posted on another thread (remember, I am trying to tie this fragmented information of Travelers together on one thread) that Travelers try to marry off their young at an early age in order to bring more of their own from overseas legally.

21 posted on 09/21/2002 9:26:17 PM PDT by Conservababe
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To: Age of Reason
The travelos do thing like re-pave your asphalt by covering it with old motor oil, it washes off once they are out of town...I think they also do a lot of roofing and home repair scams
22 posted on 09/21/2002 9:28:39 PM PDT by woofie
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To: Conservobabe; aculeus; Orual; general_re; Happygal
There's a Liam O'Flaherty story called The Tent, which may be helpful.
23 posted on 09/21/2002 9:29:10 PM PDT by dighton
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To: Conservobabe
I hope they stay in the Midwest. We don't need any strange characters like that in California.

< /sarcasm>

24 posted on 09/21/2002 9:31:02 PM PDT by Mr. Jeeves
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To: Conservobabe
Here's a link to a story from a few years ago about them marrying off their 12 year old daughters.
25 posted on 09/21/2002 9:32:48 PM PDT by ao98
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To: dighton
The Tent? Thank you.
26 posted on 09/21/2002 9:35:44 PM PDT by Conservababe
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To: Conservobabe
Instead of posting something stupid and silly, I thought I'd do something different this time and actually provide you with a useful source....... here.
27 posted on 09/21/2002 9:35:58 PM PDT by hole_n_one
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To: Conservobabe
Interesting that "tinker's damn" came up. I just read something about it last month on the web. Here it is (well, I thought it was interesting! :-)
Etymologies & Word Origins:

Tinker's Damn
Not worth a tinker's damn is a phrase that is often uttered, although most people who say it nowadays have no idea what a tinker is. There is also considerable confusion over the word damn in this phrase, which is often spelled dam.

A tinker was an itinerant tradesman who mended pots and pans. The name could derive from either the sound of a bell that the tinker rang to announce he was in the neighborhood (perhaps the name Tinkerbell from Peter Pan is an allusion to this practice), or it could be an onomatopoeic phrase for the tinking sound he made as he worked on the pots and pans. This explanation first appeared in 1440, and Samuel Johnson in his 1755 dictionary agreed with it.

Many etymologists agree with Dr. Johnson, but there are those who disagree as well. The earliest cite in the The Compact Oxford English Dictionary, 2nd Edition (OED2), dates from 1265 and is a surname: "Editha le Tynekere." This one is also of interest because it refers to a trades woman not a man. Other sources date the surname Tynker as early as 1252, and the Scottish form, tinkler dates to 1175. The verb to tink meaning to mend a pot dates only to the fifteenth century, and the words tink and tinkle, referring to the bell or metallic sound, date only to Wyclif's translation of the Bible in 1382, 1 Cor 8:1:

"I am maad as bras sownnynge or a symbal tynkynge."

Presumably the verb would have come first, but it could have existed outside the surviving literature or it could be a backformation from tinker.

It is very possible, and perhaps probable, that the word comes from the word tin, the material with which the tinker worked.

But what about the damn? Some say that it should be spelled dam because it is not a curse, but rather a term for a method used in mending pots. The tinker would use a piece of bread, or other soft material, to plug the hole he was mending to prevent his solder from flowing all over and escaping. This dam was worthless after the pot was mended, and was discarded. Therefore, a tinker's dam was a worthless bit of detritus. Brewer's notes this explanation, but does not take a position. The OED2 calls this a "baseless conjecture."

This explanation seems strained. Also, Hugh Rawson (A Dictionary of Euphemisms & Other Doubletalk) notes that the earliest use of the spelling dam in the phrase dates only to 1877, while the phrase tinker's damn was used in 1839 by Thoreau, and the OED2 cites usage of tinker's curse as early as 1824. Dam is probably a Victorian bowdlerization, and the explanation followed to justify it.

Similarly, some have suggested that the dam is a reference to the tinker's horse, usually a worthless nag. Not only does this explanation share the problem with dates, but dam does not mean horse; it means mother. A horse has a sire and a dam - -a father and a mother.

The origin of the phrase is most likely the simplest explanation. Tinkers had a reputation for cursing, and a tinker's damn was not worth much because tinkers damned everything.

© 1997-2000, by David Wilton. All rights reserved

BTW, someone mentioned 60 Minutes did a piece on this group a few years ago and I saw it, too. As much as I dislike 60 Minutes, I tend to believe that expose, and if I saw a Traveler coming toward me, I would give a very big tinker's damn about it, and run as fast as I could in the opposite direction.

28 posted on 09/21/2002 9:39:34 PM PDT by LibWhacker
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To: ao98
Thanks for the link. I am still wondering how Travelers can live a lavish lifestyle and still be nomadic peoples who vanish into the sunset after their assault on a community in a scam spree. Just curious, me. LOL
29 posted on 09/21/2002 9:41:39 PM PDT by Conservababe
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To: Conservobabe

Police Officers who investigate home repair scams typically encounter "American Gypsies" also called "Travelers", and "Rom Gypsies". Travelers are made up of three groups of Travelers, English, Scotch, and Irish. The English Travelers, especially the Boswells, Coopers, and Stanleys, , actually call themselves Gypsies. Other English Travelers go by the names of Small, Oaks, Harrison, and Herrin. Irish Travelers use Sherlock, Gorman, and Donahue, while Scotch use Williamson, Galvin, Haliday, Keith, Parks, and Holden. Although little is known about the Traveler's history, they all speak in a "cant", a secret language among each other. They have been labeled Gypsies or Travelers primarily because they travel as families and groups and because of their nomadic ways.

Asphalt Driveway Sealing/Paving: Most of the victims are approached through door to door contacts. The suspicious person will offer to fix the driveway but the final price will not be what was agreed on. The Asphalt mixture will soon crumble. The sealant will give it a white appearance that washes off with the first rain. The check given for payment will be immediately cashed. Often the suspect will steal any written contract back after the victim lays it down so there will not be anything to show the police.

Roof Sealing/Fix Shingles/ Leaks: Victims are approached through door to door contacts. Travelers do have regular customers who get their roof sprayed every year and never realize they have been swindled. The substance sprayed on the roof may be oil, motor oil, or gasoline mixed with silver paint, or even regular latex paint. The substance is not a fire retardant, will not prolong the life of the roof, will not seal down the shingles, and will not fix any leaks. The Travelers are as a rule very neat and clean and maintain their equipment.

Home Invasion/Burglary: While engaged in a home repair scam, the victim's attention is distracted and an accomplice will steal valuables out of the house. The victim may not miss the items for several days. It is not uncommon for the victims to lose more in the burglary than in the home repair scam.

House Painting: The painting is shoddy with paint that is cheap and thinned down.

Alert: Asphalt, Roofing, and Painting Travelers- The Travelers come to our area every year in the spring and summer. They will come to your door and tell you they have a load of hot asphalt left over from a job. They may say they are in the area doing painting or roofing and you must act quickly to get this special offer or special price. These people often contact senior citizens and can be very intimidating. They will request cash or will offer to take the senior to the bank to get the money. If a personal check is taken, the check will be cashed at your bank within the hour. The work will be of very poor quality including, thinned down paint or an inadequate amount of asphalt to do the job properly. Travelers always have new trucks and equipment with out of state vehicle tags. Often they will have no business markings or will give you an out of state business address or phone numbers. Don't be pressured. Ask for references, verify workman's compensation insurance, required permits from regional building, call the Better Business Bureau, but above all, don't pay in advance and don't pay more than the agreed upon price. Pay only after the work has passed an inspection. If you think you are dealing with a group of Travelers call your local police department so these people can be checked out.

30 posted on 09/21/2002 9:41:42 PM PDT by Quicksilver
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To: Conservobabe
I seem to remember that they would use contaminated oils in the paving.
31 posted on 09/21/2002 9:45:56 PM PDT by Doctor Stochastic
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To: Quicksilver
32 posted on 09/21/2002 9:46:27 PM PDT by hole_n_one
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To: hole_n_one
Been there... done you have any personal experience with or knowledge of Travelers in the USA?
33 posted on 09/21/2002 9:48:30 PM PDT by Conservababe
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To: Conservobabe
Interesting thread. It reminded me of the film "Into the West".
34 posted on 09/21/2002 9:49:03 PM PDT by rightofrush
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To: Conservobabe
Can't recall why they marry their daughters off so early, and it is scandalously early: 8, 9, or 10 years old, IIRC, although the husband doesn't get his hands on his young bride until a few years later -- or so they say.

Their lavish lifestyle is paid for with proceeds from their crimes. In this case, crime does appear to pay. I hope this latest story about child abuse puts a whole lot more heat on this group, and on the INS for opening the doors to them.

BTW, did I mention that I love the Irish?

35 posted on 09/21/2002 9:52:19 PM PDT by LibWhacker
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To: Conservobabe
Has anyone ever heard the Travelers talk in "cant", their secret language?

The Irish Travelers speak Shelta.

36 posted on 09/21/2002 9:55:21 PM PDT by Consort
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To: Conservobabe

There is another class of scam artists known as “travelers.” Scott said travelers basically perform the same acts as gypsies but are more organized.

In the spring, the travelers leave Murphy’s Village in North Augusta, Ga., and travel around the country posing as home repairmen or government officials.

Kayes added that there are other groups in South Carolina and Tennessee. He also said there are groups in the Chicago suburbs, and even one that used to be DeKalb, but that was several years ago.

Gypsies and travelers are difficult to catch because they are nomadic and have perfected their scamming techniques, Kayes said.

“When they steal, they sometimes put it in the mail,” Kayes said. “If they are stopped later, they can say they don’t have anything.”

In the rare chance that a gypsy or traveler is arrested, they will do anything to stay out of jail, including offering to pay back what they stole.

“If you steal from 10 people, and pay one back, then you really haven’t lost much,” Kayes said.

37 posted on 09/21/2002 9:58:39 PM PDT by Quicksilver
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To: hole_n_one
Thanks for the post. Methinks that the Travelers/Gypsies are not limited to the Midwest.
38 posted on 09/21/2002 10:05:18 PM PDT by Conservababe
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To: Conservobabe
Most interesting. I've clicked on some of the links, it's fascinating.
39 posted on 09/21/2002 10:21:19 PM PDT by Ciexyz
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To: hole_n_one
Two things Judd McIlvain has the worst rug in TV news and scam artists like the Travelers are why I only use illegal alien labor for my home improvement projects.

40 posted on 09/21/2002 10:22:23 PM PDT by socal_parrot
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To: socal_parrot
41 posted on 09/21/2002 10:26:04 PM PDT by hole_n_one
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To: hole_n_one
Tommy Trojan -- my old school mascot!
42 posted on 09/21/2002 10:26:47 PM PDT by Temple Drake
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To: Conservobabe

SORRY FOR BAD FORMATTING. Original is here and in good format:

Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 20:03:44 GMT
Simple living and slick cons: 'Travelers' walk both roads

MURPHY VILLAGE, S.C. -- Patsy Hart had never heard of the Travelers, never
imagined such
people could exist. Then Pete Sherlock walked into the bar.

She was working as a dancer; he was dark and handsome, tipped in 20s and 50s,
said the sweetest things. Sometimes, though, he'd speak to his buddies in a
language she couldn't understand.

Not until they married did she realize he was part of a subculture she
couldn't understand, one from another century and another continent.

Pete Sherlock was one of the Travelers. For 10 months of the year they roam
the country, working as painters, roofers, sealers and pavers.

Some do their best and obey the law. Others, police say, are some of the
smoothest, most relentless con men in America, preying on the old or gullible
with schemes hatched by their forefathers and honed to perfection over the

Honest or dishonest, Travelers are unquestionably different -- clannish,
insular and mysterious.

In Murphy Village, the nation's largest Traveler settlement, ``they' ve
created an old-world community where time stands still,'' says Tom Landis of
the state attorney general's office.

Most parents here pull their children out of school after eighth grade. The
boys go on the road with the men to learn the business. The girls, not even
old enough to drive, marry cousins to whom they were promised years earlier.

And almost everyone's a cousin: In this village of 3,000 there are only a
dozen last names.

Her own husband, Patsy Hart says she discovered, had first married at 17 -- to
his cousin, who was a few years younger. He was one of about 40 Peter Sherlocks
in Murphy Village, each distinguished by a nickname. His was ``Bad Pete''; he
had been convicted in Georgia for ``theft by deception'' in a scam.

``I couldn't believe that this all could happen here, in this day and age,''
Hart, 37, says of her time in Murphy Village. Four years after leaving, she
sounds as if she still can't.

Most people have heard of Tinkers, who have have long traveled Ireland in
caravans and today call themselves ``Traveling People.''

England and Scotland also had such nomads, and in the 19th century members of
all three groups came to the United States. They traded livestock, sold wares
and plied their trades as they moved from town to town. Some people, accusingly
and inaccurately, called them Gypsies.

A group of Scottish Travelers known as ``The Terrible Williamsons' ' became so
notorious for home-repair scams in the 1950s that many changed their names.

Today, estimates of the overall Traveler population -- Irish, Scottish and
English -- vary widely, from 20,000 to 100,000.

All three groups have this in common: They make their living on the road;
they marry inside their extended clans after elaborate courting rituals; they
speak, when they wish not to be understood by outsiders, an ancient mixture
of Gaelic and English known as ``Cant.''

For most of the year, the men and older boys follow the warm weather around
the nation, offering to paint or roof barns and houses and to pave or seal

They drive their pickups and work trucks door to door, pointing out how badly
a job needs to be done and offering to do it for a low price.

Travelers, police say, are great salesmen. ``They're charming -- nice,
clean-cut. If you start talking to them, you're a goner,'' says John Wood, an
investigator for the Pinellas County, Fla., Department of Consumer Protection.

``They've got the gift of gab,'' says South Carolina state investigator Joe

Many of those who say they have been cheated by a Traveler, such as Martha
Andrews of Decatur, Ga., who was the victim of an attempt to bilk her in a
home-improvement scam, use the same phrase: ``He was the nicest young man. .
. .'' Even the Travelers' most stern critics, including investigative reporter
Don Wright, who wrote the book Scam, say you can't help liking them.

But in many cases, police and consumer protection officials say, the paint
washes off with the first rainstorm or the driveway cracks with the first
frost. Sometimes, no work is done at all.

How many of the Travelers are crooked? That might depend on who's talking.

``They're criminals,'' says Tom Bartholomy of the Better Business Bureau in
Fort Wayne, Ind. ``I've never met a legitimate Traveler.' '

Some bureaus where the Travelers pass each year have a kind of early warning
system. When complaints start coming into one office, staffers call their
counterparts in the next city: The Travelers are coming.

Wood, the Florida investigator, says Traveler crimes often are neglected
because the offenders choose victims, most of them elderly, who are too
embarrassed, befuddled or ignorant to complain. And if they do, he says,
police usually treat the case as a dispute over a contract, not a crime.

Local police, Wood complains, usually don't even realize they're dealing with
a criminal conspiracy: ``If you call about Travelers, they think you're
talking about insurance.''

Some people familiar with the Travelers, however, insist that most are
honest. Despite their disdain for secondary education, the Irish Travelers of
Murphy Village ``basically are law-abiding people,'' says Clarence Dickert,
superintendent of schools for Edgefield County, S.C. ``They get some bad

``They're not all criminals; it's not that simple,'' says Jared Harper, an
anthropologist who studied the same Travelers.

But he says Traveler society has no particular regard for ``country people''
-- non-Travelers -- and many doubtless take advantage of those who can't
bargain or don't take care what they agree to.

The Travelers themselves are famously secretive. None in Murphy Village would
agree to an extended interview or offer examples of solid workmanship or
satisfied customers. Larry Otway, a Travelers' rights advocate, says
centuries of persecution have made them leery.

But based on dozens of interviews with law enforcers, business people and
consumers, there seems to be little question that Traveler society has more
than its share of con men. This year, like every other, has brought a raft of
complaints against Travelers.

In a typical case, police in New York City have accused some Scottish
Travelers of stealing more than $250,000 from about a dozen senior citizens
in the area.

By using a concealed water bottle to spray walls and ceilings, investigators
say, the Travelers allegedly convinced homeowners that their roofs were

One resident, Nicholas Visceglia, 83, agreed to pay $9,000 after some
Travelers showed him water on the fuse box of his home in Queens. When a
neighbor called to see what was going on, one of the four Travelers, a
71-year-old grandfather, kept answering and hanging up.

Visceglia was about to go to the bank for the money when police, alerted by
the neighbor, showed up and arrested the Travelers, who were spraying a
useless and possibly flammable liquid on the roof.

Birth of the village

Murphy Village is one of the oddest settlements in America, an ostentatious
suburban subdivision with the social structure of an Appalachian hollow.

Its origins date to the 1960s, when some Irish Travelers were living in a
trailer park in North Augusta, S.C. After they had trouble finding someone to
sell them enough land on which to build homes and a church, their priest
served as a sort of real estate front man. In thanks, they named their
settlement after him.

Today, huge $200,000 to $400,000 houses line U.S. Route 25 outside North
Augusta. Shiny new pickups and luxury sedans sit in the driveways. Statues of
the Virgin Mary stand in the yards, a testament to the Irish Travelers'
1950s-style Roman Catholicism. The village has almost no crime, drunkenness
or divorce.

When she moved to Murphy Village in 1991 after marrying Pete Sherlock, Patsy
Hart says, she was stunned by the homes. One is built around a solid marble
floor; one has a $10,000 chandelier imported from Italy; in one, a $300,000
certificate of deposit hangs in a frame on the wall.

How, she wondered, do itinerant painters afford it?

The Travelers attribute their material riches to hard work and thrift. Hart
says she saw another explanation, one police have long alleged.

Some Traveler men laugh and boast about cheating the ``country people.' '
They charge for watered-down paint and paint they don't use, and they act so
nice that sometimes the ref -- Cant for non-Traveler - - doesn't even know
he's been cheated.

But con artistry isn't all that's different about Murphy Village.

Once, Traveler girls didn't marry much earlier than any others. But settling
down in Murphy Village increased the risk of intermarriage with the
``country'' folk. A daughter might fall in love with a country boy and leave
the fold, the greatest disaster a Traveler parent can imagine.

So young Travelers are paired off early. Girls are often engaged at 7, 8 or 9
to older boys who go on the road with their future fathers- in-law.

To show off their girls to potential in-laws at dances, some mothers tart them
up in tight, sequined dresses, teased hair and thick makeup.

Sometimes, lined up with other girls and their husbands or fiances, they dance
provocatively to rock music played by a disc jockey with a leering drawl.
``Burn the house down, couples,'' he'll bray, `` .. 'cause ya know you

The Travelers insist that no girl is forced to marry, and none does so before
South Carolina's legal age of 14. But Hart says she knows of girls who married
even younger.

``Mind your own business,'' she says she was told when she objected. ``You're
causin' trouble.'' Finally, she split with Pete Sherlock.

She now lives in Conyers, Ga., with her two sons, 13 and 10. She hopes to have
her story made into a movie.

`Only the Travelers know'

On March 15, 1997, after televised reports of truancy and underage marriage in
Murphy Village, a state task force of police and social workers raided the

Fourteen were arrested, some for tax evasion and food stamp fraud. But most
Travelers were on the road. Those who weren't didn't cooperate. And
prosecutors discovered that, under an archaic state law, girls could marry at
12. A revision of the law was rushed through the Legislature.

Today, most observers say little has changed in the village. No one has gone
to jail, the task force has been disbanded, and only a few Traveler boys are
in high school.

Given the maze of shared addresses, identically named children and resistant
parents, ``It's almost cost-prohibitive (for truant officers) to try to go in
there and figure out who's who,'' says Joe Livingston, a state police agent who
has investigated the Travelers for years.

Asked about the reports of underage marriage, he shrugs and says, ``Only the
Travelers know for sure.''

It could be the village motto.

Even the parish priest, the Rev. Patrick Clarke of St. Edward's Roman Catholic
Church, refuses to discuss the Travelers. He asks, ``Do you expect me to be a
source on my parishioners?''

His parishioners have a saying: ``God forgives the Travelers.'' Father Clarke
hears confessions every Saturday at 3.

Rick Hampson, Simple living and slick cons: 'Travelers' walk both roads., USA
10-08-1998, pp 01A.

Well, OMNI ? These are my kinda people from my heritage. What do you think of
my famuly?

43 posted on 09/21/2002 10:28:19 PM PDT by dennisw
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To: Conservobabe
I recently caught a performance by a musician whose playing has been described as "the wild, traveler's style." Paddy Keenan is one of the world's foremost pipers and apparently the musical style of his family is distinctive from the more traditional style of most Irish musicicians. His father was described as a traveler and a fine musician in his own right. If you think "Amazing Grace" is inspiring on the pipes, check out Paddy Keenan's solo of "Loch Erne Shore." Pure spirit transposed as music.
44 posted on 09/21/2002 10:29:43 PM PDT by concentric circles
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To: Conservobabe
Wasn't there a movie about them with Bill Paxton in it?
45 posted on 09/21/2002 10:33:22 PM PDT by TheLurkerX
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To: TheLurkerX
46 posted on 09/21/2002 10:38:16 PM PDT by hole_n_one
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To: Conservobabe
. . . After my retirement from the Milwaukee Police Department, where I served as a Lieutenant of Detectives within the Intelligence Division, I decided to share with others the experiences and knowledge I gained from my specialty, which was the investigation of frauds and con games . . . FraudTech
47 posted on 09/21/2002 10:45:33 PM PDT by Quicksilver
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To: LibWhacker
And then there's Traffic's version of "John Barleycorn Must Die"
"And the Tinker he can't mend kettle nor pot...
Without a little bar_ley___corn"

48 posted on 09/21/2002 11:01:05 PM PDT by eddie willers
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To: Quicksilver
summation for tonight...although I hope this thread continues. I am interested in these peoples.

On another thread, I saw a post from Freeper (sorry that I cannot remember your name) that the gypsies were contracted by hire to make the nails that were to nail Jesus to the cross. This poster said that the gypies made all of them except the gold one that was meant to peirce Jesus heart. In a secret deal, they were told that if they forfeited and reniged on the deal...that they would have sanction from g-d that they could steal and theive forever, without guilt.

This has my interest.

49 posted on 09/21/2002 11:03:13 PM PDT by Conservababe
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To: Conservobabe
The legend about being given license to steal by Jesus himself, I think that is about Romanian Gypsies.

I knew some Travelers when I grew up in Georgia (Their compound is just across the river in South Carolina).
Its true, they seem to be nice, likable people. But then the best con men are. I wonder if this clan has a branch in say, oh, Hope, Arkansas.

50 posted on 09/21/2002 11:22:11 PM PDT by Maximum Leader
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