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Germany's Schroeder heading for slim victory
Reuters ^ | September 22, 2002 | By David Crossland

Posted on 09/22/2002 2:31:28 PM PDT by ejdrapes

Germany's Schroeder heading for slim victory

By David Crossland

BERLIN (Reuters) - German Chancellor Gerhard's ruling coalition of Social Democrats and Greens appears to have clung on to power in the general election, but with a severely reduced majority, according to television projections.

Forecasts on the ARD and ZDF television channels on Sunday see-sawed before both predicting a wafer-thin lead for the centre-left "Red-Green" coalition over a possible alliance between Edmund Stoiber's conservatives and the liberal Free Democrats.

ARD gave a Social Democrat-Green coalition 302 seats in the lower house of parliament, the Bundestag, ahead of 299 for the conservatives and liberals. ZDF put a "Red-Green" coalition at 304, ahead of 297 for Stoiber's camp.

Both Schroeder and Stoiber voiced confidence that they would end the night as chancellor, although the provisional official result was not due out until after midnight.

But it was already clear German voters were delivering an inconclusive verdict -- the result markets feared most.

Analysts predicted falls in share prices and the euro on Monday on fears that the new government, of whichever colour, would be too weak to reform the stalled economy, the world's third largest.

The outcome could also have significant consequences for transatlantic relations after the last weeks of the campaign were dominated by Schroeder's blunt opposition to a U.S.-led attack on Iraq -- as unpopular with Washington as it was popular with voters.

SIMILAR POLICIES

Stoiber's and Schroeder's promises have been surprisingly similar, focusing on modest labour market reforms to tackle an unemployment rate around 10 percent. Both oppose turning Germany into a U.S.-style "hire and fire" economy.

Nevertheless, investors had hoped Stoiber, premier of wealthy Bavaria, might make structural reforms in a country that economists see as needing painful welfare and health care cutbacks to avoid becoming chronically stagnant.

Stoiber has also refused to rule out involvement in a U.S.-led attack on Iraq if it is backed by the United Nations, and has promised better relations with the European Union and Germany's historic EU ally France, which cooled under Schroeder.

Stoiber's conservatives advanced around four points compared with the 1998 election to just under 39 percent and looked set to become the largest party in parliament -- but to have been let down by their prospective allies, the FDP.

Asked if he saw himself as future chancellor, Stoiber told ZDF television: "I hope and believe -- yes."

Most forecasts showed Schroeder's SPD suffering losses of around three points as voters punished him for failing to honour his promise to cut unemployment, stuck above four million, little changed from when he took power.

"We want to go on and the way it looks, we'll be able to do so," he told cheering supporters at SPD headquarters in Berlin.

He said he was ready to continue in government even with a thin margin of victory, saying: "A majority's a majority."

REFORM IN THE BALANCE

Markets were less convinced. "A wafer-thin majority would not create a good climate for reform because each vote (in parliament) would hang in the balance," said Giuseppe Amato, an analyst at brokers Lang und Schwarz.

Johannes Reich, chief analyst at the private bank Bankhaus Metzler, said the tight result was "an uncomfortable position for the stock market".

"Any kind of uncertainty is not very helpful and brings instability," he said.

Fortunately for Schroeder, his coalition partners in the Greens made big gains, helped by the popularity of their foreign minister, Joschka Fischer, and environmental worries after devastating floods last month.

They looked set to gain two points to around nine percent while the pro-business, tax-cutting FDP was up just one point at over seven percent, falling well short of its goals.

Its campaign was overshadowed by renewed charges of anti-Semitism against its deputy leader, Juergen Moellemann, who prompted charges of anti-Semitism by attacking the policies of Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon. The party leadership demanded Moellemann's resignation on Sunday.

The result is so close partly because many voters were torn between Schroeder's charisma and the perception that the much more austere Stoiber, state premier of wealthy Bavaria, would do a better job on the economy.

The telegenic Schroeder managed to divert attention from this, and reverse Stoiber's big lead in opinion polls in the space of a few weeks, with decisive handling of the floods and with his opposition to a U.S.-led attack on Iraq.

He did, however, alienate the United States, which was further enraged this week by reports that Justice Minister Herta Daeubler-Gmelin, had likened President George W. Bush's stance on Iraq to Hitler's use of foreign policy to hide domestic woes.

Although she denied having made the remarks, Schroeder had to send a letter of apology, and faces a struggle if he returns tom power to mend fences with a country that had been one of Germany's closest friends.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS:

1 posted on 09/22/2002 2:31:28 PM PDT by ejdrapes
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To: ejdrapes
Germany is rocketing down a mudslide to Hell.

2 posted on 09/22/2002 2:47:45 PM PDT by Jonathon Spectre
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To: ejdrapes
Although she denied having made the remarks, Schroeder had to send a letter of apology, and faces a struggle if he returns tom power to mend fences with a country that had been one of Germany's closest friends

The damage Schroeder did to Germany is huge. It will show in the sale of German cars, Trucks and Tires in the USA. There is no reason for us to keep troops in Germany. Most of the left wants our troops brought home. Now the right agrees with them. Schroeder will not fix the economy.

If the economy gets bad enough, Germany will go for an extrememist. When the depression drug on with statemated governments in the 1930s, Germans turned to Hitler. Don't bet the farm they won't do the same thing again.

Anti semitism is sky high in germany right now. Why do you think Muslims are so popular in Germany today. Both Germans and Muslims want to kill Jews.

Twice in the last century we lost millions of lives fighting Germany. What makes you think we won't have to do it again in this century?

3 posted on 09/22/2002 2:52:18 PM PDT by Common Tator
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To: ejdrapes
If Germany's big need is a reform of the economy, and if that can't be accomplished by a government with a slim majority, the obvious alternative is a Grand Coalition of the CDU and the SPD.
4 posted on 09/22/2002 2:55:26 PM PDT by aristeides
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To: aristeides
Reform of the Economy won't help with A US citizens Boycott of German Products
5 posted on 09/22/2002 3:01:27 PM PDT by scooby321
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To: Common Tator
The damage Schroeder did to Germany is huge. It will show in the sale of German cars, Trucks and Tires in the USA.

Our Defense Dept spends billions in Germany. Time to pull the plug. Get the troops out of the welfare society that has forgotten any sense of gratitude.
6 posted on 09/22/2002 3:04:04 PM PDT by doosee
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To: doosee
The Germans would love to get the real estate where the bases are back. We should pull out 99% of our people, but keep a company or so at each base, just for spite.
7 posted on 09/22/2002 3:12:35 PM PDT by CatoRenasci
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To: Common Tator
We bought a new car recently. We looked at German cars (Audi, VW, Mercedes, BMW) but did not buy German. I won't anymore. GM (indirectly) got our money when we ended up with a Saab. (I know it's a little crunchy granola, but no more Volvos for us now that Ford owns them).
8 posted on 09/22/2002 3:14:41 PM PDT by CatoRenasci
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To: Common Tator
WEll, I bought a German car, althought one that was assembled in the U.S.

I won't be buying anything else from Germany for awhile- at least as long as Schroeder remains in power.

9 posted on 09/22/2002 3:16:51 PM PDT by RANGERAIRBORNE
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To: Jonathon Spectre
'Germany is rocketing down a mudslide to Hell.'

And after the events of the past week, I say let the slide continue.

10 posted on 09/22/2002 3:18:49 PM PDT by The Vast Right Wing
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To: CatoRenasci
Yep, my feeling too. Just shut down the bases, lock the gates, and leave a crew of security people behind to make sure that nobody enters.

Move the troops to Poland where the US is appreciated.

11 posted on 09/22/2002 3:21:57 PM PDT by McGavin999
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To: ejdrapes
Economy stalling, poor growth even by Europe's already enemic standards. Translation for (older) Americans: Germany is entering it's Jimmy Carter era. Hopefully they will get a Reagan next time around (if -- big if -- they've learned better). The new government, having a very slim majority, may have to kowtow even more to the Greens. Hopefully (big hopefully) this will contribute, in the end, to discrediting the Greens in Europe.
12 posted on 09/22/2002 3:24:17 PM PDT by Stultis
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To: Common Tator
The damage Schroeder did to Germany is huge. It will show in the sale of German cars, Trucks and Tires in the USA.

I doubt it will be even measurable.

There is no reason for us to keep troops in Germany.

Well, there are many reasons actually. Whether they are good ones or not is another matter entirely.

If the economy gets bad enough, Germany will go for an extrememist.

What, and you think we wouldn't, or didn't?

Anti semitism is sky high in germany right now.

Not really. A rather small, but significant I suppose, number of skin-heads in the former east-bloc countries. And of course the Moslems. Other than that, forget it.

Twice in the last century we lost millions of lives fighting Germany.

Um, no. Total KIA for World Wars I and II was well under a million, nothing to sneeze at of course, but not "millions"...

13 posted on 09/22/2002 3:31:00 PM PDT by Freedom4US
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To: scooby321
Reform of the Economy won't help with A US citizens Boycott of German Products

Ues that is indeed a true.

The germans have always been a strange mix. They have been hard working socialists. Almost all the ideas that were installed in the US by FDR and LBJ were created in Germany.

In fact Social Security was started in Germany half a century before it was adopted in the United Sates. The German Government chose the age of 65 for Social Security retirement because the average German only lived to an age of 65 years and 3 months. They felt that on average they would only have to pay 3 months benefits for a very popular political plan.

But the hard working Germans have always liked Socialism. Hitler's political party was the "National German Workers Socialists party". It was referred to as the National Socialists in many nations. But our media labeled Hitler right wing because he was to be an enemy. We couldn't have a left wing enemy back than could we. Just like the hard line communists in the final days of the soviet union were the right wing Russians.

To our media, the term Right Wing has nothing to do with political views, Right Wing is another name for EVIL.

In mediaese Lefist is another word for GOOD. Is is the prefered form.

We need to get out of Germany and stay out.

The united states is the worlds only super power. They will try to change and control us if they can. But if they can't control us they will form a Franko Germanic line in order to kiss our a$$.

The truth is if we take over Iraq and install a US puppet government (very pro USA) lots of good things could happen. We could overthow the governments in Iran and Saudi. They two would become client states of the US. That would put US clients in charge of most of the worlds oil.

That thought scares the crap out of Europe. They hope to unite to challenge us. If when they do they find they are still much below us in power and influcence they well be angry.

The French and Germans want us to fail in the middle east. It is much to their nations advantage.

Did you ever notice our media wants us to do what is beast for Europe and what is worst for the United States?


14 posted on 09/22/2002 3:47:18 PM PDT by Common Tator
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To: ejdrapes
NO MORE BECKS FOR ME
15 posted on 09/22/2002 3:49:29 PM PDT by TheRedSoxWinThePennant
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To: Common Tator
If the economy gets bad enough, Germany will go for an extrememist.

In my book, Schroeder qualifies.

16 posted on 09/22/2002 3:53:37 PM PDT by Scott from the Left Coast
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To: Freedom4US
A boycott won't matter to them as much as having their representatives cooling their heels in the waiting rooms in the corridors of power. It will be humiliating for the Germans. Half the country seems to be OK, it's the eastern half that seems to be the big problem. I guess they'll just have to find out the hard way that supporting the thinking that kept them enslaved can only lead to one outcome. Kind of glad that a socialist will be in power when that happens.
17 posted on 09/22/2002 3:59:27 PM PDT by McGavin999
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To: CatoRenasci
They THINK they want the land back where the bases are located, but they forget how much money American troops spend in the German economy. We will be missed when we go, but I agree with the other posters that US troop deployments in Germany will end. A. They are not necessary to face a Russian threat that does not exist. B. The White House really is angry, and will do it out of spite. Which is A-OK by me.
18 posted on 09/22/2002 4:00:36 PM PDT by babble-on
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To: aristeides
The CDU/CSU has already said that a grand coalition is out of the question according to Deutsche Welle.
19 posted on 09/22/2002 4:15:27 PM PDT by virgil
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To: virgil
Has the CDU made it clear that they won't join a grand coalition even if they get the chancellorship (which arguably they should, as the party with the largest vote)?
20 posted on 09/22/2002 4:19:02 PM PDT by aristeides
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To: ejdrapes
I've been out of the loop on this one..has Schroeder being confirmed the Winner already?
21 posted on 09/22/2002 4:25:14 PM PDT by RoseofTexas
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To: aristeides
I'm not sure. Sorry I can't give you more specifics. I think what I heard was in the case that the SPD wins the chancellory.
22 posted on 09/22/2002 4:35:13 PM PDT by virgil
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To: RoseofTexas
Schroeder's Party Wins in Germany

Story Filed: Sunday, September 22, 2002 7:31 PM EDT

BERLIN (AP) -- Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder's Social Democrats won Germany's closest postwar election Sunday, after a campaign that preyed on fears of a war with Iraq and unleashed anti-American rhetoric.

With 99 percent of the vote counted, official results showed the Social Democrats and Greens combined won 47.1 percent of the vote to continue their coalition for another four years. The conservative challengers led by Bavarian governor Edmund Stoiber had 45.9 percent in a likely alliance with the liberal Free Democrats, who had 7.4 percent.

The Social Democrats and environmentalist Greens won 305 seats in the new parliament, compared to 294 for the conservative challengers led by Bavarian governor Edmund Stoiber, according to projections by ARD public television.

A jubilant Schroeder appeared arm-in-arm with Foreign Minister Joschka Fischer, the Greens' most popular politician, before cheering supporters at Social Democratic Party headquarters.

``We have hard times in front of us and we're going to make it together,'' Schroeder shouted above the din.

23 posted on 09/22/2002 4:42:10 PM PDT by Dog Gone
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To: Common Tator
Most of the left wants our troops brought home. Now the right agrees with them.

Hell, most of the troops agree with them--this 'troop' in particular. I also agree with them in the case of Japan, Korea, and other places. Why should our tax dollars subsidize the defense of ungrateful foreigners?

24 posted on 09/22/2002 4:48:11 PM PDT by Skwidd
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To: McGavin999
I don't think that would work. Once our troops leave the Germans will want the bases back and get them. I also get the feeling that if we move the troops to Poland soon enough they'll all be out of Northern Europe.

It takes a lot of effort to dislodge a boulder. Once you've done so, it's more likely it will be moved away completely. Move out of Germany, and it's more likely the EU will put pressure to get us out. Whether or not it's a good idea to leave is another question.

But of course, if Germany seriously starts to get us out and we want to keep our presence in Europe, we should start looking for another host. But if things continue as they are, Europe's pacifist trend will be hard for Poland, or for us to resist.

25 posted on 09/22/2002 4:55:20 PM PDT by x
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To: x
Bush is not a man to forgive and forget. Expect real pressure on Schroeder in NATO and the UN, and if Bush refuses to work with the skunk or receive him in Washington expect a call for a new election within the year.
26 posted on 09/22/2002 5:07:55 PM PDT by gaspar
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To: Common Tator
Now I know why my ancestors left Germany!! Don't hold the Germans ideologies against all of us of German decent!! Perhaps only the brightest left..... because there sure seem to be a lot of ignorant people living there!

I just found out that a few years ago, while my husband was there working, he was accosted. My husband was standing outside a deli. A co-worker was inside. My husband was standing outside looking around, when a man (well dressed, and not a punk rocker or anything like that) walked up to him and YELLED RIGHT UP CLOSE IN HIS FACE "F'N AMERICAN!!!"

My husband didn't say a word, stepped back into the store, and told his co-worker and the people working in the store what had happened. It seems just a block away was some kind of a Union rally or something.

He didn't tell me, cause he didn't want me to worry when he had to fly there. I found that kind of hate really disturbing. I can't imagine doing that to a visitor of our country.

Now we hear of the HITLER statements about our President, and then this victory for Schroeder. I'd say perhaps Germany should be on their own in the future. I'm sick of this attitude from people who we gave the precious lives of our men and women to in the past. Sick to death of it to be honest.
27 posted on 09/22/2002 5:16:21 PM PDT by Vets_Husband_and_Wife
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To: Vets_Husband_and_Wife
Hey-

I guess I'm in good company. I was called a Nazi and told that I loved Hitler recently on an anarchy thread! Well if Bush can take it, so can I. I will proudly be called any name because I value American lives over terrorists' and because I pay my taxes. ;)

God bless our military and God bless America.

28 posted on 09/22/2002 5:45:46 PM PDT by GWfan
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To: GWfan
I never thought of it that way.. if it's good enough for our President, it is good enough for us!! :o)
29 posted on 09/23/2002 9:59:04 AM PDT by Vets_Husband_and_Wife
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