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Toogood/Gorman... parking lot beating Mom

Posted on 09/23/2002 4:02:27 PM PDT by Conservababe

Parking lot beating Mom is scheduled to be on Fox's Greta tonight.


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1 posted on 09/23/2002 4:02:27 PM PDT by Conservababe
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To: Conservobabe
Hopefully, Greta will just start smacking the s**t out of her...
2 posted on 09/23/2002 4:03:07 PM PDT by Poohbah
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To: Conservobabe
The parking lot probably deserved it.
3 posted on 09/23/2002 4:05:14 PM PDT by Sir Gawain
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To: Conservobabe
Being on television shown beating her daughter wasn't enough? Maybe she can get someone to write her story. And then there's the Lifetime miniseries.....

It's amazing how we make celebs out of uneducated, illiterate, and inarticulate people like Ms. Toogood.

4 posted on 09/23/2002 4:06:59 PM PDT by anniegetyourgun
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To: Conservobabe
My theory in life is continually shown to be correct. NEVER trust a women with a hyphenated or multiple last name.

I submit Hillary Rodham Clinton as my supreme example.

5 posted on 09/23/2002 4:08:29 PM PDT by Phantom Lord
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To: anniegetyourgun
For her story to be on Lifetime, her husband would have had to do the beating.

Every movie on Lifetime has the following basis... Husband beats wife, husband cheats on wife, husband beats wife, wife kills husband.

6 posted on 09/23/2002 4:09:27 PM PDT by Phantom Lord
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To: Phantom Lord
You're right. Just goes to show how much I watch that channel.....
7 posted on 09/23/2002 4:10:54 PM PDT by anniegetyourgun
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To: Sir Gawain
Oh hush. LOL
8 posted on 09/23/2002 4:16:26 PM PDT by Conservababe
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To: Phantom Lord
 
My theory in life is continually shown to be correct.
NEVER trust a women with a hyphenated or multiple last name.

Ann-Margaret.

9 posted on 09/23/2002 4:17:12 PM PDT by gcruse
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To: All
I am hoping that Greta asks a lot of questions of her being an Irish Traveler.
10 posted on 09/23/2002 4:19:37 PM PDT by Conservababe
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To: Conservobabe; Phantom Lord; anniegetyourgun
Really torks me off criminals can go on TV shows and make a fortune out of their crimes.
11 posted on 09/23/2002 4:24:12 PM PDT by ofMagog
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To: Conservobabe
hehe
12 posted on 09/23/2002 4:25:56 PM PDT by Sir Gawain
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To: anniegetyourgun
It's amazing how we make celebs out of uneducated, illiterate, and inarticulate people like Ms. Toogood.

If you are saying that you want to eradicate the gypsy culture/lifestyle, then I may agree with you in theory, however, you would have a long, hard battle before you. You would probably have an easier time eradicating the Catholic Church. The gypsies have been aroud for millenia, and every nation on the face of the earth since then has tried to rid themselves of them. They are going to be around, lying, theiving, stealing and conning for longer than you or I will be on this planet.

So it looks like we will have to deal with them on an individual basis, and individually, I have not seen any hardcore evidence that a real beating took place in this instance. What exactly has the mother confessed to??

13 posted on 09/23/2002 4:26:13 PM PDT by southern rock
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To: ofMagog
Well, I, for one, would like to see the interview.
14 posted on 09/23/2002 4:26:32 PM PDT by Conservababe
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To: Poohbah
I'm going to make some fairly broad assumptions here, based on the information that she is a "Traveler." If my guess is correct, a Traveler is like a gypsy, and they make their living using various cons and thievery schemes. For instance, the "Williamson gang" is a group of people from the South who travel the country (They are probably Travelers also) pulling "home repair" cons where they knock on a door and tell people they have "surplus" material from a job site and are willing to repair a roof or driveway very cheaply. They get their money and leave. Then when the rains come, their "tar" or whatever they use washes away and the owner knows he has been conned. Another thing that happens is that the gang will use an excuse to get inside the house and will sometimes steal cash and jewelry. (Please bear with me because it is leading to a larger point.) The groups "traveling" don't keep the money for themselves, as the money is raised for the benefit of the group as a total. Which brings me to suspicions about Toogood. But what of the little girl? I don't know why she became angry at the girl, and again, I assume, that the girl had some small part to play and may have simply failed to perform that part or was too whiny at the time of the exchange and Toogood took it out on her. Also, if anyone feels sorry that Toogood has had the girl taken away by CPS - don't be! The little girl will be raised to commit acts of crime in support of the overall group. You can BET that other group members will fight to keep her because she is family, but a future monetary assets obtainer! Her only chance to grow up "normal" will be foster care - and yes - I realize that is a terrible choice for "normalcy."

If the Police Chief has any smarts, he will start running warrant and record checks on all "Travelers" who show up in support of Toogood, and he might find a bunch of them wanted on a variety of charges NATIONWIDE!

If Greta has any smarts, and I doubt that she does, she will miss the most important aspects of Toogood's lifestyle and will not understand the significance of her membership in the "Travelers." Disclaimer - As I said, I do not represent these as facts, they are only opinions, theories, and suppositions.

15 posted on 09/23/2002 4:30:01 PM PDT by Enterprise
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To: Conservobabe
If I may run against the tide for a moment here. From my first view of this tape on tv, it was not clear that this woman mercilessly "beat" her child. It appeared that she slapped at the child in rapid downward motions and it was not evident how hard the child was struck. The fact that the child has been found to be "fine" by the prosecutor indicates she was not severely "beaten."

I have an 11 year old daughter who I would never hit and never did hit, and this mother may not be the most solid citizen. But I think this is a case of 35 seconds of video being used to demonize a person and take a child away to a "foster home." Sorry, but I find all the comments about people becoming ill and leaving the room over this video to be somewhat extreme. Now she has to "prove" to the government that she can be "trusted" with her own child. I think it's good to protect the child, but this is also another case of video lynching, IMHO.

16 posted on 09/23/2002 4:30:17 PM PDT by Williams
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To: southern rock
I'm sure it went like this: "Yur honer, ah ain't got nothin' to be shamed of. It was a simple mistake and ah done took all the punishin' I shoulda had. I said I was sorry. It never happened before, I sweared to it."
17 posted on 09/23/2002 4:30:40 PM PDT by anniegetyourgun
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To: Conservobabe
I have been hearing a lot about "Irish Travers" today on various talk radio shows. Anybody got any facts, web sites, etc, that gives any information on them?

Also, what is with mom's hair color change, from blonde in the child beating video to red in her, far to often and tearful, please forgive me, TV appearances today?
18 posted on 09/23/2002 4:33:22 PM PDT by tall_tex
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To: Poohbah
Hopefully, Greta will just start smacking the s**t out of her...
Judging from her hard hitting questions to "talk-to-the-dead" psychic Jon Edwards the other night - I suppose she'll just turn the show over to Toogood for an instructive class in how to beat your children.

Honestly, she turned her show into "Crossing Over" and allowed Edwards to do his act on callers for the entire program - she never once challenged his phoney-baloney "psychic abilities".

19 posted on 09/23/2002 4:33:29 PM PDT by Drumbo
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To: Enterprise
Forgive me, but is there any information that she is an "Irish Tracveler" as opposed to a petty shoplifter? This is what I mean, people see a video and have now decided they know all about the deep criminal conspiracy of which this woman is a part. If there is solid info on this, that is interesting and I apologise. Otherwise, I have to liken this to the folks who had figured out exactly where the three alligator alley moslems were going to board a submarine to be secreted back to an overseas Al Queda base. This is EXACTLY why we have the presumption of innocence and burden of proof. I wonder how many wonderful people out there are alraedy willing to stone this kid's mother?
20 posted on 09/23/2002 4:38:35 PM PDT by Williams
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To: anniegetyourgun
Actually, I think the woman speaks with an accent.
21 posted on 09/23/2002 4:39:08 PM PDT by Conservababe
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To: Williams
.. From my first view of this tape on tv, it was not clear that this woman mercilessly "beat" her child. It appeared that she slapped at the child in rapid downward motions and it was not evident how hard the child was struck.<<

With all due respect, I have seen many posters on this subject who evidently did not see the part on the tape after the child is in the car seat and the mom draws her hand into a fist and punches several times in the direction of the child. Of course the view is obscured, because the walls of the SUV were not invisible.

But, IMHO, to presume that the woman drew back her fist that many times and threw punches with no intention of harming the child in any way, (after having shaken her around by the pigtails and swatted her several times in the floorboard) stretches credulity to the breaking point.

The little girl said her mom shook her around by the pigtails and hit her. The mom said she had done wrong. THe lawyer said she had done wrong. But still she has her defenders.

Again, with all due respect, unless you have seen almost a full 30 seconds of unedited videotape, you have not seen the incident and cannot comment intelligently.

22 posted on 09/23/2002 4:39:28 PM PDT by SerpentDove
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To: Williams
>>I wonder how many wonderful people out there are alraedy willing to stone this kid's mother?<<

Now there's an idea.

23 posted on 09/23/2002 4:40:26 PM PDT by SerpentDove
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To: Phantom Lord
For her story to be on Lifetime, her husband would have had to do the beating.

You're right. To make it onto Lifetime, the woman has to be the victim.

24 posted on 09/23/2002 4:41:08 PM PDT by Bloody Sam Roberts
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To: Williams
Apology accepted. She said she was an Irish Traveler during an interview.
25 posted on 09/23/2002 4:41:16 PM PDT by Conservababe
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To: Enterprise
Sorry - I need to insert something which didn't appear in the post. After "Which brings me to suspicions about Toogood." was supposed to be the following:

I pose the question about how Toogood obtained the SUV and wonder if it was by means of a con job. I suspect that she may have been in the store to return goods in return for cash as a part of an overall con also, and that she failed to obtain cash, and therefore failed to earn money for the group. I suspect her sister may have also been part of the "con" because the presence of the sister and the little girl give the appearance of "normalcy" to a con. Toogood possibly had a "bad day" BECAUSE SHE FAILED TO EARN MONEY FOR THE GROUP, AND NOT BECAUSE OF THE LITTLE GIRL - UNLESS - unless the little girl had a part to play in the con and flubbed it or she was too whiny during the con and Toogood took out her frustrations on her. She left the stoor, and I believe she look right, and left, and wailed on the little girl - like a shewolf - not to INJURE her but to CORRECT her so she would learn for the next con job. (I am sorry for the disjointed text) Continue on with "If anyone feels sorry ...."

26 posted on 09/23/2002 4:41:36 PM PDT by Enterprise
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To: Conservobabe
There were some posts here that she is a member of the Irish Travellers which is a very inbred group. Have you heard her peculiar accent? Is this the accent of the Irish Travellers?
27 posted on 09/23/2002 4:42:36 PM PDT by PJ-Comix
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To: Enterprise
"She left the stoor, and I believe she look right,"

Should read "She left the store, and I believe she looked right..."

Again I apologize for the mistakes made by my haste in posting. If I take too long my computer disconnects.

28 posted on 09/23/2002 4:43:43 PM PDT by Enterprise
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To: Williams
Her lawyer admitted in a public statement at a news conference that she is a "Traveler." Naturally, I don't have the specific conference he spoke at.
29 posted on 09/23/2002 4:44:57 PM PDT by Enterprise
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To: PJ-Comix
I have heard this accent in western Kentucky, though without the bad grammar.
30 posted on 09/23/2002 4:45:33 PM PDT by Conservababe
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To: Drumbo
I don't know about the rest of you but I sure don't go for cameras spying on every stinking thing I do. It's probably because I didn't watch one episode of "Survivors". Same kind of people that have nothing better to do than to pry into others business, probably are for cameras everywhere. .....probably expecting a new TV show coming soon that assembles clips from a bunch of spy cams....hey it worked for Alan Fundt. Next time you pick you nose, it could end up being televised worldwide. Gotta itch where the sun don't shine???
31 posted on 09/23/2002 4:45:39 PM PDT by Russ7
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To: Phantom Lord
At least it has a happy ending...;-)
32 posted on 09/23/2002 4:45:43 PM PDT by Pharmboy
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To: Williams
"the deep criminal conspiracy"

I am not saying that this is part of a "deep criminal conspiracy." I am suggesting that this may simply be a way of life for these people.

33 posted on 09/23/2002 4:47:40 PM PDT by Enterprise
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To: Enterprise
I pose the question about how Toogood obtained the SUV and wonder if it was by means of a con job. I suspect that she may have been in the store to return goods in return for cash as a part of an overall con also, and that she failed to obtain cash, and therefore failed to earn money for the group.

All of the above is what I say happened. How does such uneducated trash get hold of a luxury SUV? Not by honest work that's for sure. Via scams and cons by her and maybe her husband brings in the big scam money.

34 posted on 09/23/2002 4:47:45 PM PDT by dennisw
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To: Conservobabe
Her own lawyer's words:

"But Toogood's attorney, Steven Rosen, said afterward that there was no point in trying to challenge the surveillance videotape in court.

'I don't think there's anything, any expert of any degree in any type of credibility that can do anything about that tape. It is what it is,' he said.

"We will probably enter a guilty plea and throw ourselves on the mercy of the court," he said.

If that's not guilty, I'd like to know what is.

(From foxnews.com)

35 posted on 09/23/2002 4:48:53 PM PDT by SerpentDove
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To: southern rock
What exactly has the mother confessed to??

According to her attorney on FOXNEWS, Toogood is going to plead guilty to Felony Battery tomorrow.

Sounds like even she admits she crossed the line.

36 posted on 09/23/2002 4:49:50 PM PDT by sinkspur
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To: PJ-Comix
BTW - That wasn't posted to YOU in particular. Yours was just the name I clicked on.

:-))))

37 posted on 09/23/2002 4:50:10 PM PDT by SerpentDove
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To: Enterprise
Thank you. I've been trying since yesterday to remember the name of the Williamson Clan. I read about them roughly 35 years ago.

What STUNS me is that the judge set Toogood's bail at only $5,000. As you said, the members of the clan work FOR the clan. The clan controls the money, and they wouldn't have balked at a $50,000 bail to keep one of their own out of prison.

I don't know if the Travelers are part of the Williamson Clan, but I sure hope we hear a lot more about them.
38 posted on 09/23/2002 4:51:01 PM PDT by kitkat
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To: Enterprise
Toogood has a history of crime. Just recently she was charged with stealing jeans. Just as in the case of her beating her daughter, Toogood was caught on video stealing pants and claims to be innocent in both cases! I think she takes lessons from Bill Clinton.
39 posted on 09/23/2002 4:53:13 PM PDT by GaryMontana
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To: SerpentDove
I agree with you on two things. I don't think I saw the second half of the tape and the mother was wrong by her own admission. Also, I am reading that she acknowledges being an "Irish Traveler" which is odd because I didn't think that was something you would admit to. From what I know I have no respect for them and I am amazed they continue to live in luxury in a particular community despite their organized wrongdoing.

Please don't disregard what I just said. But you do acknowledge that the SUV obscured some of what happened. My point is how did she deliver a merciless 35 second beating including with a closed fist and the child is "fine"? (I am not discounting emotional damage, just talking about physical). This woman was wrong, but it appears that she did not in fact deliver a severe "beating" to this child. She acted out in anger but as to her intent, couldn't she have seriously injured the child if she "intended" to? I am not sure what she in fact did is quite as bad as everyone is saying (i.e., stone her, take the child away, slap her around, she is a "creature," etc.)

40 posted on 09/23/2002 4:53:33 PM PDT by Williams
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To: PJ-Comix
Is this the accent of the Irish Travellers?

She sounds like a Michigander Yankee to me..

(Apologies to Conservative Michiganders)

41 posted on 09/23/2002 4:53:38 PM PDT by humblegunner
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To: kitkat
The Williamson gang is what they are known as in California. I suspect they are actually part of the Travelers though.
42 posted on 09/23/2002 4:55:10 PM PDT by Enterprise
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To: Williams
By TOM COYNE
.c The Associated Press

SOUTH BEND, Ind. (Sept. 23) - The woman caught on video beating her 4-year-old daughter in a department store parking lot will probably plead guilty and throw herself on the mercy of the court, her lawyer said Monday.

Madelyne Gorman Toogood, 25, was arraigned on a felony charge of battery to a child, and a magistrate entered an innocent plea on her behalf.

Her attorney, Steven Rosen, said there was no point in trying to challenge the surveillance videotape in court.

''I don't think there's anything, any expert of any degree in any type of credibility that can do anything about that tape. It is what it is,'' he said.

''We will probably enter a guilty plea and throw ourselves on the mercy of the court,'' he said after the arraignment.

Earlier Monday, a Probate Court judge ordered that Toogood's daughter, Martha, remain in foster care in the meantime, and he gave child-protection officials two weeks to recommend who should care for the girl.

If convicted, Toogood could get up to three years in prison. She faces a hearing on Oct. 7.

The mother of three had no comment as she left court. She remained free on $5,000 bail.

''People might think I'm a monster, but I've been a mother for six years, and no harm has come to my children before this, never,'' Toogood told CNN earlier Monday. ''I'm sorry. That's all I can say.''

A doctor examined the girl and found no medical problems and no long-term signs of abuse, authorities said.

Toogood told reporters Sunday she hit her daughter in the head and back and pulled her hair but did not punch her. On the video of the Sept. 13 incident, which has been televised nationally, Toogood appears to make punching motions toward her daughter inside a sport utility vehicle.

''Martha didn't deserve what she got,'' Toogood said over the weekend. ''I just lost my temper.''

Rosen said he believed the hitting took place because Martha misbehaved in the store, taking toys out of packages and wandering away, prompting store employees to page Toogood twice.

Toogood said she hopes to be reunited with her daughter and that she, her daughter, and her husband, John, plan to start parenting classes. ''Anything that they want us to do, we will do,'' Toogood said.

She said her two young sons are staying with family.

Toogood said she and her husband have been living in Mishawaka for about six months. She said they are Irish Travelers - a nomadic group that police say has been linked to fraudulent home repair.

By some estimates, 7,000 Travelers live in the United States - most in Texas and South Carolina - about 40,000 live in Ireland and England. The Travelers began migrating to the United States more than 100 years ago.

Toogood's sister also was arraigned Monday on a charge of assisting a criminal.

43 posted on 09/23/2002 4:55:14 PM PDT by Spunky
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To: dennisw
A couple of years ago I talked with a credit manager of a loan company. She said that there are groups of people who are good at scamming newer model vehicles. They establish enough credit and history to get a new vehicle and make one or two payments. Then they stop paying. It takes time to get the vehicle repossessed because the companies by now have no idea where the vehicle might be. When and IF the vehicle is repossessed and/or recovered, it will likely be trashed and mostly worthless.
44 posted on 09/23/2002 4:57:54 PM PDT by Enterprise
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To: kitkat
That is part of the greater amazement of the whole affair. First she may be part of a large criminal enterprise. Second, she may have committed FELONY CHILD abuse! And her bail is set at 5,000 dollars! UNBELIEVEABLE isn't it?
45 posted on 09/23/2002 4:59:58 PM PDT by Enterprise
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To: Russ7
I don't know about the rest of you but I sure don't go for cameras spying on every stinking thing I do . . . Same kind of people that have nothing better to do than to pry into others business, probably are for cameras everywhere . . . Next time you pick you nose . . .
I'm sorry that security cameras offend you so. Perhaps you should avoid Kohl stores; and for that matter, I noticed a sign in the Walmart parking lot last Saturday informing me that the premises are video monitored. If you don't like the cameras - don't go to the stores, it's that simple. But, I can't blame any of the stores for having cameras because there are so damn many theives out there. In this case, I'm glad she was caught on "candid camera". The cameras don't bother me at all - I'm not a theif and I have nothing to hide. Perhaps you should pick your nose in private?
46 posted on 09/23/2002 5:00:44 PM PDT by Drumbo
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To: Spunky
I think it's amazing people admit to being "Irish Travelers." I hope I was clear this woman was wrong. I'm just willing to say that I can't be sure how hard she hit her daughter and I think there has been overreaction on that score. If she "beat" that child for 35 seconds or punched her with a fist repeatedly there would be bruises. Apparently there is no sign of injury.
I guess I hope this all leads to less abuse of kids but I still don't like the nation taking this video and deciding they've all just seen a monster at work. That is unproven.
47 posted on 09/23/2002 5:01:23 PM PDT by Williams
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To: Williams
>>My point is how did she deliver a merciless 35 second beating including with a closed fist and the child is "fine"? <<

That's a very fair question. I'm no doctor, so I don't know if a child can be struck like that and show no marks. And I have not heard a credible medical report that says the girl is fine, only the word of the mom and her attorney, after the child has been hidden for what, a week? If I missed it, I will be glad to be informed of it.

Maybe she was hit in the stomach, that wouldn't show marks. Speculation, I admit.

But, we have the testimony of the little girl to consider. She said the woman shook her by the pigtails and hit her.

If I were on the jury, the fact that the woman grabbed her by the pigtails and shook a four-year-old child's head around would be considered battery. No question.

48 posted on 09/23/2002 5:03:02 PM PDT by SerpentDove
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To: Conservobabe
Boo hoo hoo...Natalie is being stereotyped by the racist media and society which is critical against the travelers aka Gypsies aka Romany.
http://www.gypsyloresociety.org/extlinks.htm
49 posted on 09/23/2002 5:05:01 PM PDT by eleni121
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To: Phantom Lord
My theory in life is continually shown to be correct. NEVER trust a women with a hyphenated or multiple last name.

That's why I always liked Cher. Simple and to the point.

50 posted on 09/23/2002 5:05:07 PM PDT by mc5cents
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