Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Uranium seized in Turkey (names the suspects); US in consultations
cnn ^ | 9/28/02

Posted on 09/28/2002 10:17:08 PM PDT by knak

Edited on 04/29/2004 2:01:19 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

ISTANBUL, Turkey (CNN) -- Turkish officials said Saturday they have seized 34.6 pounds of uranium and arrested two Turkish men in Urfa, a town in southeastern Turkey. U.S. officials are in touch with authorities to get information about the seizure.


(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.com ...


TOPICS: Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS:
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-5051-83 last
To: freepersup
After reading much information here and at linked sites provided for, it sounds to me that at best, this stuff is going to be material that would eventually wind up in a nuclear power plant (required to make the fuel pellets out of such material). The enrichment would be in the 2-3% range. Far from being refined enough to be useful in a nuclear chain reaction weapon. Granted if it is uranium, it is the right material to start the process of refinement/enrichment. It clearly shows motive and intent. Good enough for me. Never Forget 9-11 Let's Roll

I'm no expert on this sort of thing, but carrying around the fuel for a power plant under the seat in a taxi cab? Hardly are reliable supply line for the needs of a power plant. I don't think so. Seems to me there are much more sinister motives here if this turns out to be as reported.

51 posted on 09/29/2002 12:25:04 AM PDT by BJungNan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Nogbad
"a taxi that was en route from Urfa to the nearby city of Gazi Antep, police said."

Hmm! The taxi was travelling away from Iraq but towards the main highway to Syria.

Curioser and curioser.

Never trust a taxi driver.
Maybe the car was POINTING in the direction of Syria, but was in fact traveling BACKWARDS.

52 posted on 09/29/2002 12:25:49 AM PDT by Logic_3
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 50 | View Replies]

To: Logic_3
"So with a lot of truth it is not going to work then?."

It will work with the truth only if you possess it.

53 posted on 09/29/2002 12:27:36 AM PDT by blackbart.223
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 49 | View Replies]

To: dts32041; Mitchell
Easiest place to hide something quickly in a car, will usually pass a causal search.

That car would have been searched 30 times
before it ever got anywhere near the Iraqi border,
and I can assure you, car searches in Turkey are not casual.
I know, I've been there and I have been searched.

54 posted on 09/29/2002 12:30:57 AM PDT by Nogbad
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: MJY1288
ping
55 posted on 09/29/2002 12:33:24 AM PDT by Nogbad
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 54 | View Replies]

To: MJY1288
From what I understand Weapons grade uranium is very heavy

Any uranium is very heavy and dense; it doesn't matter whether it is "weapons grade" (i.e., U-235) or not. And while non-enriched uranium would certainly prove intent on Iraq's part to try to build an A-bomb, it's a long road to enriching it sufficiently to be useable. On the other hand, if the smuggled uranium turns out to be weapons grade, it would have allowed Hussein to build a working nuclear device in the very near future. I'd be very surprised if this was the only smuggled shipment, which might mean that Hussein already has his hands on adequate quantities of uranium.

56 posted on 09/29/2002 1:15:45 AM PDT by dpwiener
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: knak
I think some of this should be sent exposed to Ted Kennedy,Dick Gephardt and Tommie Daschle. Let the come out and say, Dont Worry,Be happy!
57 posted on 09/29/2002 4:48:42 AM PDT by gunnedah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: knak
Beware of a "Red-Herring" shipment. While this one is captured, the real and more important shipment moves along to its destination.
58 posted on 09/29/2002 4:59:53 AM PDT by NetValue
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NetValue
I would think that this would be a rather low-grade of uranium. If not, the glow on the smugglers faces should be investigated.
59 posted on 09/29/2002 5:19:43 AM PDT by meenie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 58 | View Replies]

To: spokeshave
>>Well if it was 33 lbs of enriched Uranium the neutron flux would effectively neuter the miscreants.....self enflicted Darwin Award<<

Hold muh Geiger counter alert?

60 posted on 09/29/2002 5:26:36 AM PDT by Jim Noble
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: freepersup
Can't be done chemically. It takes a very special process (gaseous diffusion, centifuge, or laser isotope enrichment) and the resources of a medium-size government to do it. In the US we have huge (albeit not well known) facilities at Oak Ridge, TN and other sites to do just this.
61 posted on 09/29/2002 5:31:31 AM PDT by NukeMan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: freepersup
It is a lot. In the gaseous difussion process the raw material is .711% U235. The "tails" or waste stream still contains .7% of U235. This is how the weapons production facilities ended up with millions of gallons of waste.
62 posted on 09/29/2002 5:33:08 AM PDT by SSN558
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

Comment #63 Removed by Moderator

To: clodhopper
You stink of a disruptor.
64 posted on 09/29/2002 8:43:27 AM PDT by StolarStorm
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 63 | View Replies]

To: StolarStorm
clodhopper signed up 2002-09-28.
65 posted on 09/29/2002 8:43:57 AM PDT by StolarStorm
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 64 | View Replies]

To: dpwiener
I would have to agree with you, After all... Saddam has no nuclear power plants or any other need for uranium other than for weapons, So if the destination for these smugglers was Iraq... case closed ... Time to remove him and disarm Iraq.

BTW Thanks for the info on uranium, I don't pretend to know the ins and outs of what it takes to put a nuke together

66 posted on 09/29/2002 9:26:06 AM PDT by MJY1288
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 56 | View Replies]

To: BJungNan
>>>material that would eventually wind up in a nuclear power plant<<<

I agree- I too do not find taxis to be suitable delivery vehicles for uranium earmarked for nuclear power plant fuel production facilities.

That wasn't my point.

The point I was trying to make is....this material could have been taken from a facilty that was going to produce fuel pellets FOR a nuclear power plant.

Another post mentions the byproduct of highly enriched uranium (weapons grade) is waste material that still has an increased enrichment of 7%. It may be discovered that this waste material is actually what the smugglers / terrorists were trying to take out of Turkey and on into either Syria or Iraq.
67 posted on 09/29/2002 9:34:16 AM PDT by freepersup
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 51 | View Replies]

To: NukeMan
My question was regarding volume and conversion. If an enrichment process strarts out with, as an example- 1 ton of raw material (uranium) what amount is left over as waste of the 2,000 lbs. ? Conversely how many pounds of weapons grade material would be produced from a ton of raw uranium. I realize that the weight is not in proportion to the weight of the original amount, when considering the physical size of the material.
68 posted on 09/29/2002 9:43:08 AM PDT by freepersup
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 61 | View Replies]

To: MJY1288
Exactly ! Exhibit A- one still smoking gun.
69 posted on 09/29/2002 9:47:03 AM PDT by freepersup
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 66 | View Replies]

To: knak
I think is is more frightening that there was NO MENTION OF THIS SEIZURE AT ALL IN THE NY TIMES today! But they did manage to get on the front page that nancy Reagan is trying to get Bush to change his mind on stem cell research.

I can't believe they would not print this? Are they really that biased. This is an im pressive new level. Surely it at least should have gotten a mention in world news. NADDA ZIPPO NOTHING!
70 posted on 09/29/2002 10:05:43 AM PDT by finnman69
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: freepersup
The point I was trying to make is....this material could have been taken from a facilty that was going to produce fuel pellets FOR a nuclear power plant.

Sorry I misunderstood your post.

Developing now - the amount found is far less than what was first reported according to Drudge.

BR, BJN

71 posted on 09/29/2002 10:07:06 AM PDT by BJungNan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 67 | View Replies]

To: BJungNan
I reread my post and it can be taken out of context. No apology needed. Appreciated just the same. I was going to post- one has to be on top of one's game when posting here as users are quite literate and are fond of, (in a sporting way) pointing out double entendres and other misappropriations of the Kings'English.

I saw the update too. Posts 56 and 66 in this thread make good points about the intent and motive, irrespective of the amount or level of enrichment. A clear and present danger.
72 posted on 09/29/2002 10:17:02 AM PDT by freepersup
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 71 | View Replies]

To: freepersup
Ah! Misunderstood your question.

For each ton of natural Uranium, .711% (.00711 fractionally) is U-235. This is 14.22 lbs of U-235 at 100% enrichment (it almost always stops at 98% enrichment). This is not counting the flourine gas, chemicals, etc. used in the enrichment process. I'd say offhand that for each 2000 lbs of uranium, another 2000 lbs of various chemicals are used as well.
73 posted on 09/29/2002 10:17:15 AM PDT by NukeMan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 68 | View Replies]

To: finnman69
The bias is beyond description. What is compelling is where this material was intercepted. They didn't find this material on a ship in a port in Norway. It was discovered in Iraq's backyard. Found in the hands of Turkish locals hidden in a vehicle bound for Syria (possibly) or...Iraq via Syria (more likely). A clear and present danger. One still smoking gun.
74 posted on 09/29/2002 10:22:43 AM PDT by freepersup
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 70 | View Replies]

To: NukeMan
Thanks for the clarification. I am trying to assess the threat level when considering this confiscation.

Enriched uranium versus waste/non-enriched uranium. The implications are basically the same in the long run, but the immediacy in acting is clearly called for if weapons grade uranium is heading for Iraq. I am for taking action either way. I would accelerate the action based on the discovery of weapons grade materials being confiscated 155 miles from Iraq.

One shipment of weapons grade uranium of sufficient weight to outfit a nuke is a clear and present danger.

One shipment of waste/non-enriched uranium of like weight (ex: 17kg) is not sufficient to oufit a nuke, nor is it in the proper form yet, therefore the danger in comparison is less than the above example. However, it is also a clear and present danger, as it could be dispersed in a dirty bomb.

The analogy only goes to the heart of my offensive strategies.

Your answer as to how much material is needed to produce an amount sufficient for a nuke tells me that it would take a lot (physically) of non enriched material. Thanks


75 posted on 09/29/2002 10:45:08 AM PDT by freepersup
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 73 | View Replies]

To: NukeMan
What kind of dose does weapons grade uranium emit ? I know that spent nuclear fuel emits Rems in the millions. Lethal dose is 650 Rems.

Spent fuel for obvious reasons would not be considered. I suspect that unused fuel pellets are a beast of a different sort and wouldn't be easily reconsituted into yellow cake / material for weapons grade production, or would it ?

What would the raw material emit ? the waste material ? and finally the highly enriched weapons grade material ?
76 posted on 09/29/2002 10:54:48 AM PDT by freepersup
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 73 | View Replies]

To: freepersup
Unirradiated Natural Uranium is a pussycat, dose-wise. It is an alpha emitter (alphas are big and charged, and can be stopped by a few inches of air, or a sheet of foil, or the outer layer of skin). To be sure, you don't want to inhale uranium dust as it can remain in your lungs and deliver a potent dose after years of constant, low-level irradiation of lung tissue.

As for U-235 (100%, weapons grade) the same thing applies. It is primarily an alpha emitter, with a shorter half-life than U-238. It does have a small ability to spontaneously fission. My calcs show about 2 neutrons per second per kilogram of U-235, which is nothing (they would most likely be captured by other U-235 atoms rather than leak out of the system, depending on the configuration). Note that plutonium-239 based weapons have a much larger spontaneous fission rate, due mostly to the unavoidable presence of Pu-240 which has a short half-life (6500 yrs) and a more substantial spontaneous fission fraction (5.7E-08 per decay).

In short, uranium isn't really a worry if you don't somehow inhale or ingest the stuff. I have held mildly enriched reactor fuel pellets in my bare hand, and was none the worse for the experience....
77 posted on 09/30/2002 7:00:14 AM PDT by NukeMan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 76 | View Replies]

Comment #78 Removed by Moderator

To: knak; mhking
Hold muh Koran and WATCH THIS!
79 posted on 09/30/2002 1:42:02 PM PDT by Poohbah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: MJY1288
My question is why was it under the car seat?

Best place to hide it until sticking it in the flux capacitor...

80 posted on 09/30/2002 1:45:25 PM PDT by mhking
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: MJY1288
"My question is why was it under the car seat?" They chose the seat warmer option?
81 posted on 09/30/2002 1:57:36 PM PDT by colorado tanker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: knak
"If this is real, it is frightening," said a U.S. official familiar with the discussions. "But it is best now that we all look at this with a fair amount of skepticism until we know what it is that they have."

Yes, if it is real. For now, I have my tin-foil suit on. If it turns out to be real though, it makes me wonder, if they caught this one cannister, how many did they miss, and where did it go?

82 posted on 09/30/2002 2:24:19 PM PDT by FlyVet
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Comment #83 Removed by Moderator


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-5051-83 last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson