Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Cave Skeleton Is European, 1,300 Years Old
Sunday Gazette Mail ^ | 9-29-2002 | Rick Steelhammer

Posted on 09/30/2002 3:47:50 PM PDT by blam

Cave skeleton is European, 1,300 years old, man says
Archaeologist group wants a look at evidence

Sunday September 29, 2002

By Rick Steelhammer
STAFF WRITER

MORGANTOWN — The man who first advanced the theory that markings carved on in a Wyoming County cave are actually characters from an ancient Irish alphabet has found human remains at the site, which tests indicate are European in origin and date back to A.D. 710, he maintains.

Robert Pyle of Morgantown says that a DNA analysis of material from the skeleton’s teeth roots was conducted by Brigham Young University. That analysis, he says, shows that the skeleton’s DNA, when compared to samples from Native American groups and an array of European sources, most closely matches samples from the British Isles.

Pyle says the DNA test, plus a radiocarbon test that dates the skeleton to 710, suggest the presence of a European visitor to the North American continent nearly 800 years before the arrival of Columbus, and nearly 300 years before Viking Leif Erickson.

Found near the skeleton was a bone needle etched with markings similar to those on the cave walls.

Pyle says his findings and the test results help validate his hypothesis that the markings at the Wyoming County site “were done by seafaring people, probably monks, probably from the British Isles.”

“Based on the available data, that’s doubtful,” counters Robert Maslowski, president of the Council for West Virginia Archaeology, a state association of professional archaeologists with research interests in West Virginia.

Pyle’s findings, Maslowski says, while “interesting,” still need “to be examined by the professional community. We would welcome the opportunity to go over the evidence — to look at the skeletal material, the archaeological material, the radiocarbon data and the DNA data, then draw our own conclusions,” he says.

Pyle, who performed archaeological surveys for the state Division of Highways in late 1970s and early 1980s, does not have a degree in archaeology. He says he is a federally certified archaeologist who has studied the subject at Northwestern University, and has taken geology courses at WVU.

He says he would be interested in having another group examine his work, including additional DNA and Carbon-14 testing, which he paid for using privately raised funds totaling about $7,000.

He also wants to raise money to preserve the site and continue his research.

Pyle first visited the cave, known as the Cook petroglyph site, in 1981, while in the area to conduct archeological surveys for the DOH.

“I was visiting my sister when someone mentioned some Indian scratchings on the top of a nearby ridge,” he said.

When he arrived at the site, “I saw an elongated group of markings along the right side,” he recalls. “I’d just read a book on Norse runes, and my first thought was that these were archaic runes.”

He later read about carvings found in Ireland and Wales, usually on the edges of grave markers, that made use of an ancient Celtic alphabet of connected lines and slashes known as Ogam.

Joined by Dr. William Grant of Edinburgh University in Scotland and Dr. John Grant of Oakland, Md., both Celtic linguists who had studied at Catholic University in Washington, D.C., Pyle continued to study the Wyoming County carvings, plus similar markings near Dingess in Mingo County and in Manchester, Ky., eventually hypothesizing that they were Ogam.

In the 1980s, Wonderful West Virginia magazine ran a series of stories about the Wyoming County site and the carvings, and their links to Ogam.

In 1989, West Virginia Archaeologist Magazine published an issue devoted to debunking that theory. Editor Janet Brashler, then an archaeologist for the Monongahela National Forest, concluded that the “turkey foot” patterns carved in the rock are design elements “in common with other acknowledged prehistoric Native American petroglyphs.”

Pyle maintains the carvings contain crosses, rebuses and other markings unique to Ogam.

He traveled to Ireland to study the markings in 1998, and in 2000, was invited to take part in the examination of a newly found 8-feet-high, 20-feet-long Irish Ogam petroglyph panel, which closely resembles the Wyoming County markings. The latter visit to Ireland was filmed for a public television special.

Pyle says his findings and the recent test results will make it possible to validate a hypothesis “I didn’t think it would be possible to validate in a lifetime.”

He says he expected his findings to generate controversy.

“That’s science,” he says. “No one totally, 100 percent endorses a new idea. ... I’ll let science decide where to go from here. But I would like to have credit for this discovery.”

“We know the Vikings were here before him, but I wouldn’t stop celebrating Columbus Day, yet,” Maslowski says. “Hopefully, we’ll be able to go over the findings and have this resolved by the end of October — West Virginia Archaeology Month.”

Pyle plans to post his findings on the Internet at www.prehistoricplanet.com/wv/. The site already contains material on Ogam and the West Virginia petroglyphs.

To contact staff writer Rick Steelhammer, use e-mail or call 348-5169.


TOPICS: News/Current Events; US: Maryland; US: West Virginia; US: Wyoming
KEYWORDS: 1; 300; ancientautopsies; ancientnavigation; archaeology; barryfell; cave; epigraphyandlanguage; european; ggg; godsgravesglyphs; helixmakemineadouble; history; janetbrashler; maryland; navigation; ogam; ogham; old; robertmaslowski; robertpyle; skeleton; westvirginia; wyoming; wyomingcounty; years
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-70 next last
To: omega4412
Try this for info on the Runestone in Oklahoma.
41 posted on 09/30/2002 5:05:19 PM PDT by Arkansawyer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: Arkansawyer
Well the link didn't come up so here it is again:

http://kotv.com/okt/runestones.asp
42 posted on 09/30/2002 5:05:58 PM PDT by Arkansawyer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: blam
which tests indicate are European in origin and date back to A.D. 710, he maintains

Tourist Guy?

43 posted on 09/30/2002 5:07:58 PM PDT by Cold Heat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: blam
I knew it, I knew it. The Irish were here FIRST. Ever since I saw the mighty Kennewick Man's skull, I knew he had to be an Irishman. Now as the newly self appointed leader of this ethnic clan community, I demand JUSTICE from the federal government, I demand full reparations for all our land that was stolen, free secondary education, special job preferences, no federal income taxes and our own seat at the EEOC.

No Justice no peace. No justice no peace.

PS: We will settle for a casino and a keg of Guinness.

44 posted on 09/30/2002 5:07:59 PM PDT by usurper
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RoughDobermann
Well, I'd argue that while it will be amazing if true in WV

This doesn't pass the smell test so far as I am concerned.

Wyoming County, WV, is on the western side of the Appalachian Mt chain. The chance that unknown Europeans got there without some reasonable infrastructure is preposterous. The Europeans we know of landed at Jamestown, not too far away, in 1607. In my quick search, I didn't find any evidence of Europeans we know of getting to Western Virginia until more than a century later.

ML/NJ

45 posted on 09/30/2002 5:22:38 PM PDT by ml/nj
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: blam
bump
46 posted on 09/30/2002 5:25:19 PM PDT by Lion Den Dan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: quebecois
The notion that whites stole the land and killed off the Indians is important for maintaining that guilt

Not only that.........

Imagine if, upon further research, it can be shown that Europeans were exploring the East Coast of North America around the same time that the Indians (who were originally Asians) were exploring the West Coast.

What would that do to the notion of "Native Americans"?

Perhaps both Europeans & Asians were ancient immigrant groups to the New World at about the same time.

47 posted on 09/30/2002 6:11:35 PM PDT by Republic If You Can Keep It
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: All
Pyle's links

here (petroglyphs)

and

here (dna)

and

here (Pyle's private website)

48 posted on 09/30/2002 6:11:55 PM PDT by SteveH
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Republic If You Can Keep It
Perhaps both Europeans & Asians were ancient immigrant groups to the New World at about the same time.

Now there's a thought.

My hubby just yelled from the bedroom; "the voyages of Brendan!"

49 posted on 09/30/2002 6:20:21 PM PDT by LibertarianLiz
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]

To: Republic If You Can Keep It
"What would that do to the notion of "Native Americans"?"

There were no 'Native Americans' (as we know them today) in North America prior to 6,000 years ago. There were a number of other folks like Kennewick Man, Spirit Cave Man and Buhl Woman here 9,000+ years ago that were Ainu/Joman in origin. The Northern Chinese Asians ('Native Americans'?) came here less than 6,000 years ago. I had a 'Native American' FReeper tell me once that who-ever was here, then that's us. I can 'buy' that.

50 posted on 09/30/2002 6:22:13 PM PDT by blam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]

To: LibertarianLiz
"My hubby just yelled from the bedroom; "the voyages of Brendan!"

Madoc

51 posted on 09/30/2002 6:25:14 PM PDT by blam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 49 | View Replies]

To: blam
When the "we were here first" crowd get too noisy and sanctimonius I recall this quote from an earlier thread---

"The Maoris have been conditioned by liberal whities to deem everything they want, or want control of, as "sacred" to them. There were a people who settled New Zealand before them called the Morioris. The Maoris killed and ate them. ... Revisionist history omits this fact.

52 posted on 09/30/2002 6:38:44 PM PDT by LostTribe
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 50 | View Replies]

To: Notforprophet
The earliest "Native Indians" in the (now) U.S. are European , not Asian or Polynesian ( still Asian?). This was released as an irony that Europeans destroyed Europeans . The later Indians were from Asia/Polynesia but inhabited different ranges. This "find" in WVa , if it holds up does not surprise me. Nor does it surprise me that it was discovered by an amateur. Most "scientists" are too far buried in the box and beholden to grants and sponsors to think innovatively, if they ever had the ability in the first place. Look at Joseph Campbell, the greatest mythologist of the last two hundred years or more, an "amateur" , and notice the near miss asteroids and orbiting space stuff is regularly discovered by amateurs. My brother builds telescopes as a hobby. His mirrors and lenses are so fine that they resolve to a degree that is stated is impossible in the scientific literature. Want some good science? Stop the nepotism and grant racket, stop the Politically correct quotas, and stop the "stand in line and get your ticket punched" laying on of the hands.
53 posted on 09/30/2002 6:39:58 PM PDT by chemainus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: blam
Where in the living hell do you get this kind of erroneous information?
54 posted on 09/30/2002 6:41:01 PM PDT by chemainus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 50 | View Replies]

To: LostTribe
"The Maoris killed and ate them. ... "

LOL. I read that too.

55 posted on 09/30/2002 6:58:39 PM PDT by blam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 52 | View Replies]

To: blam
Can't be true... Doesn't fit PC history.
56 posted on 09/30/2002 7:00:50 PM PDT by KSCITYBOY
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: chemainus
"Where in the living hell do you get this kind of erroneous information?"

Be specific. What part do you think is in error? (My post #50 sounds suprisingly similar to your post #53)

57 posted on 09/30/2002 7:02:05 PM PDT by blam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 54 | View Replies]

To: blam
Let me offer you my apology for my lack of tolerance and probably lack of sleep the past two days...i will re-read...thanks for the kick in the shin
58 posted on 09/30/2002 7:34:53 PM PDT by chemainus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 57 | View Replies]

To: LostTribe
Good Morning Bump.
59 posted on 10/01/2002 7:24:11 AM PDT by blam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 58 | View Replies]

To: blam
I may see Barry Fell and Gloria Farley vindicated in my life time. That would be nice.

True.

It's a good thing Clinton isn't president, that cave may have been dynamited by now.

60 posted on 10/01/2002 5:22:50 PM PDT by #3Fan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-70 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson