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Posted on 10/03/2002 8:19:40 AM PDT by MadIvan
The EU is Napoleon's dream (of a Europe run by a centralized government in Paris) made reality. Ugh!
Exactly. I am surprised the Irish haven't their blood up about this. Well some do, already, we know.
Regards, Ivan
At least when they were part of Britain, they had MPs in Parliament. With the Nice treaty, they forfeit their right to have a Commissioner, and give up 3 European Parliament MPs.
They are basically being asked to vote in favour of a treaty that reduces their ability to run their own affairs. I wonder what Michael Collins would have said.
Regards, Ivan
Just know this first, going in, OK??
As a rule I have become quite barbaric in my treatment of Europeans, Canadians, Aussies or anyone else who felt compelled to give me their unsolicited opin concerning our internal politics here in America.
It'd be hypocritical of me to now turn right around & do the very things I've bashed these fellow worldly conservatives by essentially doing the same thing I blown a gasket with them, over.
Bottom line is, then?
This problem is one I'll be following much closer, now; while, watching how the Irish people grapple with the predicament.
As I watch, I'm going to be trying extra hard keeping my personal opins to myself.
This is for the Irish people to fix.
Here're a few thoughts based upon my observations...
There're a whole slew of (appropriate) old country saying's that fit the jam the Irish people are having to deal with, here.
First (& foremost) simply states there's an absolute futility of one closing the barn's door, once the horse is already out!
Why did the Irish permit their nation to participate in this godless bureaucratic EU monster from the very beginning??
An arrangement which would -- to me -- depend for the most part solely on foriegners (~from Ireland's POV & interests...) doing the "right thing" for all concerned; while, completely neglecting to take into account man's propesity toward favoritism & corruption??
Just can't "legislate" human nature, as you know.
Anyway, that'd be at the root core & very essence of this matter, I'm afraid.
Ireland's membership in the EU.
Period.
The "will" (vote) of the Irish people can easily be circumvented with an end-around & rendered moot, H1.
IF this group of elitest EU bureaucrats really want to go over the Irish electorate's wishes that'd appear to be almost too easy to pull off, actually.
Which they're going to do, btw, as sure as God made little green apples, you realize.
Vote or no vote.
Just watch.
All that's needed from this bunch is to confine the number of countries to 5 or less; and, be resigned to the added work of having to come back around again next year to pick up country(s) missed, this time.
Per...
"...the Amsterdam Treaty, signed in 1997, envisages the possibility of five new countries joining without any change in the rules."
+ the added analysis of your *friend* & mine follows to underscore the crux...
"It is the prospect of six or more that causes problems (though only because it would be a technical breach of the Amsterdam Treaty)."
So you see?
From my POV; &, given the situation as this writing puts forth?
The Irish people have to hold their political leaders who're responsible for this EU involvement, minimally; because, I'm afraid they've (EU) got'cha all by the short hairs, Ms.AM.
IF Europe's Liberal-Socialists are anything like their comrades here in the states?? (~& I believe Europe's Liberal-Socialists are actually a good deal worse than their American counterpart-wannabes...)
Then the citizens of Ireland will be held to the strictest interpretation of that, "treaty." [read: contract]
Naturally, had the tables been turned; &, it were a "treaty" of conservative authorship & design these Liberal-Socialists were trying to overcome??
Welllll these very same Liberal-Socilaists would do precisely what *our's* here have done many times to break any "contract" [read: Law] getting in the way of their Utopian daydream(s).
Redefine, obfuscate, get their sycophant lapdog media to slash & burn opponents as they smeared & cleared their way to what they wanted.
Then if need be & all else appears to have failed??
They'll refer everyone to some nebulous & obscure Scottish Law. ;^)
Utterly bewildered, confused, & really just flat-out fatigued, we've simply given in out of exhaustion.
"The The Irish Prime Minister, Bertie Ahern, has told voters they would effectively be telling the waiting 75 million to 'go to hell'."
How bad could that be; when, a nation's sovereign independence & liberty is at stake??
That'd be the question I'd be asking this Irish PM & in no uncertain terms, too.
IF what he replied didn't satisfy the question, his removal -- obviously -- wouldn't just be demanded, it'd be imperative.
The Irish peoples are a proud, scrappy lot; &, unless they're as badly hypnotized by the Irish Liberal-Socialists as our nation's citizens seem to be when *our* Liberal-Socialists have done a bangup job setting the hook?
Then it is they, the Irish citizens, who must be depended upon to do the right thing!
Which isn't voting, "No" on, "Nice."
It'd be demanding Ireland's PM withdraw from the EU altogether, immediately.
Again, though; unlike some of the others you know?
I'm no statesman or ambassador; so, my response &/or reaction(s) to these kinds of shenanigans are never going to be recognized as a legitimate option.
...I see now your article nails the issue, though; dead-on.
...10 new countries and 75 million people...
An average of 7.5M/country. Heck, we have a city or two with more people...
* The treaty was rejected once in a fair and legitimate election.
As as we in the US are becoming more & more aware (or should I say despair?) what does that have to do with anything? Or Jimmy Carter?
Jeez, even in local issues such as school budgets, they just keep at it, voters rejections aside.
What's that line from the original "Batman" movie. "...needs an enema..."
I will defer to the lovely Happygal's wisdom on this, but in my opinion, the EU offered new opportunities for Ireland. Think about it, Ireland, geographically is on the fringe of Europe, with not the greatest access to European markets. A proposition that would offer to remedy that would be welcome.
Britain was similarly lured by trade prospects, only to find out as time went on the project was much larger than that.
Regards, Ivan
Hear, hear.
Regards, Ivan
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