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Another DC-area sniper-style shooting
Wife (FReeper nina0113) | October 4, 2002 | Steve0113

Posted on 10/04/2002 12:02:50 PM PDT by Steve1789

Another broad-daylight shooting just occurred, this time in Fredericksburg, VA, just off I-95. It's not even on the news yet.

About an hour's drive south of where the Montgomery County shootings happened, a woman was shot in the parking lot of a Michaels fabric store. My wife was in the store at the time. The victim had left the store and carried her purchases to her minivan. She unlocked the minivan and was loading her stuff into it when she was shot. No sign of the shooter.

No one else was injured.

The woman was taken away in an ambulance, condition unknown. Her license plate (which I'm not going to post) indicated that she had several children.


TOPICS: Breaking News; Crime/Corruption; News/Current Events; US: Virginia
KEYWORDS: banglist; randomshooting
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To: Shermy
Thanks for the pic.

just a question how much of the sound from the shot would be muffled if the shot was fired from the back. It would be quite easy to crack the back door about 7"-8", and aim from a prone position, and not be see.

also I'm thinking there may be 3 people one to drive one to shot and one to shut the door after the shot.

151 posted on 10/04/2002 12:43:50 PM PDT by OXENinFLA
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To: Steve0113
Your wife was in the store? That's hitting way to close to home.
152 posted on 10/04/2002 12:44:12 PM PDT by MissAmericanPie
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To: Dog
Yesterday's sites were all near the Washington Beltway. But the guy didn't bug out. He just went from site to site.

I bet law enforcement is looking at all the tape from the Cabin John Bridge for a white box truck going by at about 8:00 PM last night.
153 posted on 10/04/2002 12:44:20 PM PDT by gridlock
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To: Steve0113
Thanks for the post Steve. I am glad your wife is safe. It's a tragedy that someone else lost theirs. We've got one or two really sick AHs out there.
154 posted on 10/04/2002 12:45:22 PM PDT by DoughtyOne
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To: Steve0113
I was born in Fredericksburg, VA, my family still lives in Spotsylvania County, I used to go to the Spotsylvania Mall.

I am lifting everyone up in prayer, I hope they catch whoever is behind these shootings.
155 posted on 10/04/2002 12:45:40 PM PDT by jgrubbs
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To: FreeTheHostages
i'm wondering about copy-cat psychos, though. I, too, would see a connection....but I even wondered yesterday if some nutbags were going to jump on the sicko bandwagon, so to speak. This woman was just wounded? (preliminary info)....perhaps a different shooter who isn't as good of a shot?
156 posted on 10/04/2002 12:46:09 PM PDT by ZinGirl
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To: Shermy
Two things:

One, I'm suprised the truck has not been located.

Two, there's lots of room in there to put the shooter up high, in the dark, and put lots of sound-absorbing material around him.

Three, there's almost got to be an accomplice driving, and possibly another accomplice operating the door on the van.

157 posted on 10/04/2002 12:46:16 PM PDT by eno_
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To: BCR #226
Heading South period in terrorist mode means taking bigger risks. Guns are rather plentiful here. I'd stay in gun grabber land were I a terr.
158 posted on 10/04/2002 12:46:28 PM PDT by wardaddy
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To: SJackson
Here in Virginia groundhog hunting is common and if I am not mistaken the .223 is commonly used for them. There is always the possibility that some guy has gone nuts, and that he is a target shooter. It ain't that much of a leap, now, is it?
159 posted on 10/04/2002 12:46:33 PM PDT by billhilly
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To: ConservativeLawyer
Another craft store! They are shooting at people mowing the lawn, getting gas, vacuuming out vehicles, sitting on a park bench and picking up crafts. People who are doing ordinary things. If they wanted to create terror, they are right on track.

Back around the July 4th terror alerts, I sat down and tried to think where and what form the next attacks would take. I figured airplanes were probably knocked down the terrorists' list because of all the security and passenger reactions. Car bombs would be locally effective but wouldn't have the dramatic effect of 9/11, so people, nationwide, would almost be more relieved than terrified. A nuke would be their ideal but I don't believe they have the capability in the US yet.

Where I ended up was with the thought that if a terrorist wanted to really terrorize, he would randomly and anonymously attack individuals in the heartland of America. Then, no where would seem safe. I thought it would have been somewhere in the mid-West but I suppose they could have picked Maryland and Virginia. I would not be the least bit surprised to find out this was the case with these shootings.

160 posted on 10/04/2002 12:46:35 PM PDT by Pete
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To: BCR #226
the little screamer reminds you fast that you forgot to put your earmuffs on.
161 posted on 10/04/2002 12:46:53 PM PDT by glock rocks
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To: phasma proeliator
PING
162 posted on 10/04/2002 12:48:17 PM PDT by jdogbearhunter
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To: Diddle E. Squat
"Can that lady that John Gibson is interviewing talk any faster? She sounds like the lyrics to that Ketchup song."

Man, I thought she was going to have an orgasm profiling the shooter. She described about anyone that ever touched or thought about weapons. She never mentioned terrorists though... ;0)

163 posted on 10/04/2002 12:48:51 PM PDT by cibco
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To: gridlock
I bet law enforcement is looking at all the tape from the Cabin John Bridge for a white box truck going by at about 8:00 PM last night.

That's a big "IF" - there are plenty of other options; including heading around the Beltway in the opposite direction and heading down through DC and out 395. And given the type of panel truck mentioned, consider that in most larger cities, they are a dime a dozen.

I hope you're right, but in any event, I would say that anyone down the 95/85 corridor (Richmond on down to Miami; Raleigh/Durham southwestward through to Atlanta) ought to keep your eyes and ears open.

Mind you, I live a stone's throw from Six Flags over Georgia on I-20. This takes the pucker factor up a few notches...

164 posted on 10/04/2002 12:49:03 PM PDT by mhking
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To: Dead Dog
Shooting this person would be too good for them. Draw and quarter the jerk and leave him for the buzzards.
165 posted on 10/04/2002 12:49:08 PM PDT by DoughtyOne
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To: Kathleen
WMAL has not mentioned the shooting. Listened to Rush, and now Sean Hannity and no breaking news from Fredericksburg.
166 posted on 10/04/2002 12:49:28 PM PDT by MP5
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To: TrappedInLiberalHell
That thought had crossed my mind too.
167 posted on 10/04/2002 12:49:33 PM PDT by DoughtyOne
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To: Diddle E. Squat
"Can that lady that John Gibson is interviewing talk any faster? She sounds like the lyrics to that Ketchup song.

She's a dip--yesterday she said

"They need to be looking for someone who has lot's of Guns&Ammo magazines in their house"

They have nothing on the perp(s) so all the focus is on the weapon. AND--the Chief (Moose) admitted in the last press conference that they had just hand delivered the ballistics to the lab...so they either have a shell OR they are just guessing about the ammo.

168 posted on 10/04/2002 12:50:36 PM PDT by two23
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To: MP5
How about WTOP radio?
169 posted on 10/04/2002 12:50:58 PM PDT by Fred Mertz
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To: Pete
Concur Pete..
170 posted on 10/04/2002 12:51:10 PM PDT by Dog
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To: Steve0113
Forgive me if this is a bad time to mention this, (I know it is 'cause it's after the fact) but:

If this were happening in certain other places in this country, there would be literally hundreds of able-bodied, armed men looking for the bastard(s), before the Governor could even make it to the phone to call the National Guard. The saying goes, "Open up the season on 'em."

Kinda like, uh, HEY, the 2nd Amendment might have taken into account!

Good "To the editor" topic for the Washington Post?

171 posted on 10/04/2002 12:51:51 PM PDT by OKSooner
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To: Diddle E. Squat
Also hope that none of the goofballs shows up here to claim that the pattern depicts the nosehairs of Moses and thus proof that the rapture is starting to punish Bush for some perceived snub of Israel.

LOL

172 posted on 10/04/2002 12:52:05 PM PDT by ET(end tyranny)
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To: browardchad
Very possible; I also wonder if the first hit (at Michael's in MD) wasn't simply a miss, and another Michael's was visited for that reason. That would imply some vanity on the part of the shooter.

The police should look for web traffic after the last shooting last night somebody who was looking for the location of Michael's stores in the Washington DC area. I mean, if you wanted to find the location of a Michaels, how would you do it?

Surfing leaves footprints.

Anybody have any LE contacts that they could forward this to?

173 posted on 10/04/2002 12:52:13 PM PDT by gridlock
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To: mhking
I'd be pretty surpise if there are anymore shootings from a white panel truck. If so, they'll be caught pretty quick. But my guess is that if this is organized, or terrorism, they are smart enough to change vehicles. But where's the white box truck? Those are fairly easy to notice if there is a bulletin out on them. Perhaps hidden in a junkyard, warehouse, or chop shop?
174 posted on 10/04/2002 12:52:45 PM PDT by Diddle E. Squat
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To: billhilly
Here in Virginia groundhog hunting is common and if I am not mistaken the .223 is commonly used for them. There is always the possibility that some guy has gone nuts, and that he is a target shooter. It ain't that much of a leap, now, is it?

Not a leap at all. Clearly this guy has training. And a .223 T/C would be an excellent choice.

175 posted on 10/04/2002 12:53:06 PM PDT by SJackson
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To: Tree of Liberty
So, it's suspicious that they'd narrow on the .223Rem and show a few "evil black rifles" that have no known association with the crimes.

If it's "sniper" shooting, they should look at Remington 700 PSS in .223. Of course it's probably an "evil black rifle", haven't psychologists determined that owning one will cause a perfectly sane person to mow down schoolyards full of children?
176 posted on 10/04/2002 12:53:51 PM PDT by cryptical
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To: Diddle E. Squat
surprise=surprised
177 posted on 10/04/2002 12:53:56 PM PDT by Diddle E. Squat
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To: OXENinFLA
The shooter would have to be wearing lots of hearing protection to do that, since the sound pressure from the shot would be greatly contained within the truck, much moreso than if the back door were open.
178 posted on 10/04/2002 12:54:28 PM PDT by Tree of Liberty
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To: Diddle E. Squat
This is a map of six shooting incidents that occurred in Montgomery County, Md.,
overnight Wednesday and during the day Thursday.
179 posted on 10/04/2002 12:54:40 PM PDT by Shermy
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To: Indiana Jones
Not speculating by any means that there is a connection, just thought it was interesting...

It IS interesting. Why Michael's? Anyone know any background information on the company?

180 posted on 10/04/2002 12:54:47 PM PDT by ET(end tyranny)
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To: Diddle E. Squat
Perhaps hidden in a junkyard, warehouse, or chop shop?

If we're dealing with organized individuals, the truck could literally be anywhere.

181 posted on 10/04/2002 12:55:29 PM PDT by mhking
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To: Indiana Jones
Michael Dupey, the founder of 'Michael's Craft Stores' recently opened a new wholesale store in Dallas - Mports (located at Webb's Chapel and Forest Lane).

Apparently, Dupey sold the Michael's name and is no longer affiliated with the store.

182 posted on 10/04/2002 12:56:31 PM PDT by browardchad
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To: Diddle E. Squat
. But where's the white box truck?

Easily hidden in one of the thousands of Storage Rental Buildings across the country....back it right in and leave it.

183 posted on 10/04/2002 12:56:41 PM PDT by Dog
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To: gridlock
Go to the library for anonymous surfing, or use a disposable wireless card in a laptop.
184 posted on 10/04/2002 12:57:20 PM PDT by stuartcr
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To: Steve0113
"Can you fire a high-power .223 from a handgun?"

Yes, you can.

185 posted on 10/04/2002 12:57:43 PM PDT by BlessingInDisguise
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To: Steve0113
Back in 1960-whenever when the guy went nuts and started shooting people from the tower at the University of Texas, (with a bolt-action 30-06, IIRC), he was immediately pinned down and kept at bay by about a half-dozen guys who reached into their pickups and cars and armed themselves with their common, ubiquitous .22's. Otherwise the guy might have gotten away.

In this case, I hope someone sees them and can at least ram a car into them or something 'cause in Maryland and Virginia there damn sure isn't going to be anyone armed in a position to do anything about it unless a LEO happens onto the scene at the right time.

186 posted on 10/04/2002 12:57:45 PM PDT by OKSooner
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To: OXENinFLA
two, you have a "yank" cord on the door to shut it.

you can do the same with sliders on a van

t
187 posted on 10/04/2002 12:57:46 PM PDT by P7M13
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To: Ford Fairlane
Why is the news today calling these sniper style shootings?

Because in all five in Maryland yesterday, and in the one in DC last night (which has yet to be connected to the MD five) the victim was killed by a single shot from a .223 caliber rifle. And none were head-shots.

If you do a drive-by with a handgun, how many people will you kill outright with a single shot from a handgun? With head-shots disallowed and misses disallowed.

188 posted on 10/04/2002 12:57:46 PM PDT by jackbill
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To: SJackson
Clearly this guy has training

A few afternoons at the range, maybe. Shooting at 200yds. with iron sights is easily attainable and repeatable with a few sessions of target practice. Doing the same with a zeroed in scope is near childs play.

189 posted on 10/04/2002 12:57:46 PM PDT by Tree of Liberty
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To: Diddle E. Squat
Profilers Say Maryland Shooter Will Strike Again (October 3)

Randomly shooting victims one at a time is like "emotional heroin" for whoever gunned down five people in suburban Washington, D.C., over the course of 16 hours.

Two former FBI profilers say the suspects won't stop killing until they're caught.

Clinton Van Zandt and Robert Ressler say one person probably did the shooting while another drove the getaway car.

Van Zandt says they're probably still on the move, and loving it. He says it's "get-even" time for two guys who "feel like they've been ditched by the world."

The profilers say the fugitives are probably white men, in their mid-to-late 20s or early 30s, with ties to the area -- Montgomery County, Md.

Both experts say crimes like this are generally solved by people who know the suspects and notice they've disappeared.

Five people were shot and killed in a Washington, D.C. suburb over a 15-hour period and police are trying to figure out if they are connected.

Police in Montgomery County, Md. say the shootings took place Wednesday evening and Thursday morning. A police spokeswoman says the timing and location of the shootings indicate that there is a "strong possibility that they are all connected."

Police said they are looking for two men in a white Isuzu SUV, a box truck with black lettering on it with damage to the tailgate.

Montgomery County executive Doug Duncan says they are using "every possible law enforcement resource" to find the killer of five people. Duncan says a reward of up to $50,000 is being offered for the arrest and indictment of the killer or killers. ..... ...."


190 posted on 10/04/2002 12:58:26 PM PDT by Shermy
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To: Fred Mertz
I have trouble getting WTOP inside the district. Last time I checked their website they didn't have anything posted either.
191 posted on 10/04/2002 12:58:54 PM PDT by MP5
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To: ET(end tyranny)
Why Michael's? Anyone know any background information on the company?

Stores in about 40 or so states, plus Canada; they're among the few companies on Wall Street who has not taken a bath in terms of their stock price; other than that, I can't think of anything that would make them any more or less succepetable to being a terror target.

192 posted on 10/04/2002 12:59:06 PM PDT by mhking
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To: SJackson
"Clearly this guy has training."

Not necessarily training, probably just alot of range time.

193 posted on 10/04/2002 12:59:22 PM PDT by BlessingInDisguise
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To: BCR #226
The shooter isn't leaving brass at the scene. He may have a brass catcher but as a general rule, they are bulky.

If he's shooting from the vehicle, the brass would end up on the floor.

194 posted on 10/04/2002 12:59:57 PM PDT by r9etb
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To: ET(end tyranny)
Why Michael's?

It seems to me that the shooter is trying to pick out people who are doing daily, somewhat domestic tasks. Buying crafts, getting gas, mowing the lawn. That is in stark contrast to a shooter we had in my county about a year ago who attacked randomly, albeit over a period of months, usually targeting, although not exclusely, people who were getting out of their cars and going to work. It may be too early to tell, however. IOW, targeted to terrorize Americans as they go about their daily routines outside of work.

195 posted on 10/04/2002 1:00:16 PM PDT by twigs
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To: fightinJAG
I think Chief Moose was talking about the shooting on Georgia Ave. in D.C. last night.
196 posted on 10/04/2002 1:00:17 PM PDT by aristeides
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To: r9etb
"If he's shooting from the vehicle, the brass would end up on the floor."

He would also be deaf if he's not wearing any ear protection.

197 posted on 10/04/2002 1:01:05 PM PDT by BlessingInDisguise
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To: DoughtyOne
Irish Six-Pack. Shot through wrists, ankles, and knees. Lots of nerve endings, and they will most likely bleed out. Kind of like crucifixion, but not so "Roman".
198 posted on 10/04/2002 1:01:05 PM PDT by Dead Dog
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To: robowombat
What about installing cameras on the entries to such highways?
199 posted on 10/04/2002 1:01:35 PM PDT by aristeides
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To: MP5
Just confirmed on WMAL.
200 posted on 10/04/2002 1:02:11 PM PDT by Kathleen
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