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The DC Sniper Nest: None Dare Call it Terrorism
Sierra Times ^ | Oct 7, 02 | Analysis by J.J. Johnson

Posted on 10/08/2002 11:34:37 AM PDT by SLB

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To: antidisestablishment
"... good soldiers maintain their humanity during conflict"

A warrior's "humanity" or "compassion" can often be tempered by the enemy he faces...

You need only to find one brother - strung up by his elbows with his intestines lying at his feet, partially skinned alive --- and you will become a different person than the one your mother raised....

To stay alive, and extract revenge - can become VERY important....

Men that could not later, forgive themselves or rationalize their actions - ended up as drunks, drug addicts or suicides. They are the uncounted KIAs whose names don't appear on the black stone wall.

But, we're getting way off topic... Just making the point, there are no rules for human behavior that can hold all men in "check" when faced with his own destruction.
Semper Fi

241 posted on 10/09/2002 2:55:57 AM PDT by river rat
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To: pocat
A graphic showing the way different shot locating systems was posted on one of the threads it really has not been the focus of much discussion. I would expect that at least some of them are deployed in the area.

Stay well - stay safe - stay armed - Yorktown

242 posted on 10/09/2002 4:12:16 AM PDT by harpseal
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To: RebelDawg
A whole lot of posts back on an earlier thread I was asked for my estimate of how many people could make the shots involved. I answered several million. The answer I gave was not a more detailed answer only because I have no idea how many rifle shooters there are in that area.

Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - yorktown
243 posted on 10/09/2002 4:15:05 AM PDT by harpseal
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To: .308 PSS
Yah, the .50 cal shot was 2400 or so yards. The Canadians just broke his record, although they didn't do it with the Mah deuce. Hathcock made sevral shots to 1000 yards with his '.06.
244 posted on 10/09/2002 7:01:44 AM PDT by Dead Dog
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To: RebelDawg
No offense intended but a .223 at a mere 500 yards only has about 200 ft-pds of energy left... sure at 1000 yards it will break paper and wreck havoc on a prairie dog but it is not quite the best choice for long range sniping at human sized targets.

None taken, I agree with your conclusion, that's why the Israelies use(d) the 300 WM. My point is any rifle, although not optimal, is usuable. Don't underestimate their range. Someone posted on a different thread that the 55 grain .223 was really only good out to 300-500 yards, but the .72 grain rounds are good to 600 yards. The 80 grain competition rounds is a hot rod and has an MV in excess of 3000fps. I believe it is a hand load only, and the length is outside of spec.

245 posted on 10/09/2002 7:10:50 AM PDT by Dead Dog
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To: spetznaz
I think if they could do better, they would do better. This is either a stop gap messure, something to cause death and carnage that is legistically simple, while better things are in the works. Or, it could be a backup plan to be executed when the rest of the cell gets busted, ie. Portland or Buffalo.

Actually, this is right up their alley. They've done similar things in Israel, not as Al-Quada but other militant Islamic groups (they share resources so they really are the same enemy). They also have a need to shed America's blood on American soil, as they've promised for over a year now. The duration, planning, and sterility of the crime does not fit a home grown nut-job.

246 posted on 10/09/2002 7:26:42 AM PDT by Dead Dog
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To: Bella
Thanks Bella.
247 posted on 10/09/2002 8:54:35 AM PDT by wardaddy
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To: El Gato
Thanks Cat!
248 posted on 10/09/2002 8:55:26 AM PDT by wardaddy
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To: Tree of Liberty
Oh yeah ....agree with all ya said. I have a few cases of the stuff...... that is why it stood out when I saw it. Many stores carry it across the nation. Just an observation I was sharing here on FR.

Stay Safe , Armed and CYA ToL !!

249 posted on 10/09/2002 10:08:21 AM PDT by Squantos
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To: SLB
Who here is skeptical about the authenticity of this "Tarot Death Card" clue found (or announced) today? Why two days after the fact? Don't the local police know how to search a crime scene? Or the State Police or the FBI? Perhaps they did find it Monday... and are just now telling us. Regardless, this Tarot card thing with "I am god" scrawled on it, seems just a bit too trite, just too "profiled", like the "Zodiac Killer" or some quasi fictional cliché.

Pardon me for smelling a rat, but I think there might have been one recently released. Andrew Sullivan wrote a great column right after the LA Airport incident, exposing the governments penchant for hiding any indication of terrorism, as outlined in the article above. It seems that the establishment liberal unelected professional bureaucracy considers the American populace just a bunch of gun mongering yayhoos on hair-trigger. They think we will start lynching arabs from light poles if the facts about these "non terrorist" incidents get out to the general public. In the meantime, fewer verifiable racial incidents against arabs and muslims have occurred in the US in the time since 9/11 than the viscous anti-Semitic attacks that have been perpetrated by arabs and muslims in France alone, not to mention the rest of the world. Pardon my skepticism, but I think it may be catching, and I think you know why.

250 posted on 10/09/2002 10:11:43 AM PDT by Richard Axtell
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To: Dead Dog; wardaddy; PsyOp; VaBthang4
Actually, this is right up their alley. They've done similar things in Israel, not as Al-Quada but other militant Islamic groups (they share resources so they really are the same enemy). They also have a need to shed America's blood on American soil, as they've promised for over a year now. The duration, planning, and sterility of the crime does not fit a home grown nut-job.

Well, i do see your point. However i do still believe that this is the work of some local whack-job and the tarot card they found just further implies it is some weirdo trying to spread some carnage around for any number of psycho reasons.

And as i posted in my previous correspondence if it were Al Queda they would use a stratagem that would produce bigger reverberations (eg instead of having some sniper stay within a certain area they could use fragmentation grenades on a subway system during rush hour or takeout a kindergarten with an AR-15. It would use the same resources and have a bigger impact. Moreover it would send a bigger message whihc is what Al Queda is after).

As for the sniper attacks in Israel (usually the work of Islamic Jihad and lately Hamas) there are several differences from what this perp is doing in Washington. First of all the Sniper attacks in Israel are totally random. The key issue there is to hit at different Jewish settlements at varying times, and then switching to a totally different area. The goal is to disorient the settlers and make then not know where the next shot in the dark will come from. Hence every now and then some Jewish settler will get a bullet through his kitchen window in the dead of night or maybe some innocent lady will get shot in her car in the wee hours of the morning. In essence totally random attacks that occur everywhere but nowhere! The geographical target for the sniper attacks could be anywhere in Israel since by doing so the terror of the unexpected is spread.

However if you look at what is happening here the perp is focussing on a very limited geographical area. He selects targets at random but he seldom moves (although i fear with allthose TV psychologists saying that is his 'comfort zone' he might decide to move). However this is a person who is trying to send a personal message.

I would say he is in the league of Son of Sam. Not the same but basically cut from the same thread. A psycho who satiates his need for greatness or vengeance or lust or reprisal or whatever by becoming terror personified. His message is death and it is personal.

An Al Queda cell on the other hand would try to maximize its meagre resources to the maximum. While picking off some innocent folks would spread terror Al Queda would try to do better. Why spend money on .223 ammo when you could buy simple pens and attack a pre-school using the pens as stabbing implements! In essence if your point is Al Queda is out of cash and thus has to resort to .223 ammo pot shots i would say if that were the case there are still cheaper ways in which they can accomplish their nefarious goals. I can think of literally dozens of ways in which a terrorist group (by terrorist i mean mid-eastern jehadis with a yearning to meet Allah) could wreak much more damage than what this perp is doing, and still do it more expediently and for less cost. And remember what terrorists are after is to spread their message to both their supporters back in their nests of vipers, and also to Americans and other similar minded people. These jehadis are like animals (and i think that insults animals) but an al Queda cell would not waste even one member on a random sniper attack in a limited geographical area when it would be so simple to up the ante and give a bigger message.

Hence my assertion this is a homegrown chap with some chip on his shoulder. He is indeed a terrorist since he is using terror tactics, but just like the Son of Sam he is a lone-wolf and not affiliated with any mid-eastern groups. I just pray they get this fella and punish him for attacking people for no good reason at all (just imagine what those fmailies went through! They woke up on Thursday and by the end of that day their world had changed. If it were up to me i would ensure this killer was thouroughly punished ...and although i am against torture i think i would lift my concerns over it so it could be applied to this fella). It is one thing for a Yemeni terrorist to travel to the uS and blow up Americans .....however when an American does that to his fellow citizens i have to say that is even worse because not only is the guy a killer but he is also a traitor of the worst kind.

However DeadDog let me say all i have written above is speculation. It could turn out the sniper is Al Queda. However i seriously doubt that will be the case.

251 posted on 10/09/2002 10:31:49 AM PDT by spetznaz
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To: AdamSelene235
"No sniper with military training *chooses* .223."

One does not need to be a sniper. Standard military training using the M-16 (.223 cal.) requires Army soldiers to hit a half-Silhouette at 400m with iron sights, and Marines qualify out to 500m with iron sights. If this guy is using a scope he can easily hit at 300 to 400 meter range if he has had any practice - further even.

Unless the winds are very high, wind drift will not be a big factor since we're not talking about match shooting - just hitting the center of mass. In the case of the school kid he hit center of mass, but the kid lived, probably because of the use of the .223 round rather than something heavier. A miss of a few inches with the smaller round saved a life. With the heavier round, a few inches would not have mattered. In any case, the shooter's "miss" created just as much outrage as if he had killed his intended victim.

You are right, however, that the .223 round is not the ideal sniper round, but it is adequate at the ranges this guy is probably going to be shooting at in an urban environment.
252 posted on 10/09/2002 1:48:38 PM PDT by PsyOp
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To: who knows what evil?; Travis McGee
I run a search on him, and there is plenty to be found, at interesting sites:

http://www.terrorism.com/analysis/analysis-asia-070600-2.shtml

http://www.fas.org/irp/threat/terror_98/sponsor.htm

http://www.hvk.org/articles/1201/107.html

I think this whole thing is more like an act of terrorism. This kind of person manages to terrify an entire population.

But it's not the same thing as people like Osama has in mind, they would use bombs. If it's a terrorists, he is from a small group.
253 posted on 10/09/2002 2:54:16 PM PDT by knighthawk
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To: knighthawk
Thanks for the info. I think our sniper is a local lunatic.
254 posted on 10/09/2002 3:17:42 PM PDT by Travis McGee
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To: Travis McGee
That's most likely. This is not the thing a jihadi would do, they will settle more for a lot of people at the same time.
255 posted on 10/09/2002 3:22:41 PM PDT by knighthawk
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To: knighthawk
I think Jihadis will come in many versions, and would not rule out this tactic by an egocentric Muslim, but this time I think not.
256 posted on 10/09/2002 3:24:14 PM PDT by Travis McGee
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To: SLB
I believe that the shooter(s) is an islamic, alqueda, or palestinian SOB with limited shooting experience but have done some urban shooting in Israel and learned to avoid the IDF in urban areas. The card and note are intended to distract LEO from looking at militants who are already being looked at anyway. But if the shooting was to continue there could be more strenuous house to house searches or survielance of militants. This SOB is surprised that they have not been caught and are now planning more careful targets and could even be learning from all the speculation on the internet such as this site as to how to be a better sniper. Granted there are several sites already on the web dedicated to sniping and even more on hunting, weapons, target shooting, ballistics, relodaing etc...If it is a local nut ball than they will probably lay low for a while and could show up in another location entriely. If it is part of an islamic hate America terror campaign they will probably keep shooting right away.
257 posted on 10/09/2002 3:56:12 PM PDT by Mat_Helm
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To: Mat_Helm
If it is part of an Islamic hate America teror campaign they will probably keep shooting right away.

Unfortunately, it looks like your assessment was proven true within hours.

258 posted on 10/10/2002 8:52:38 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg
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To: DuncanWaring
yes it was a typo (.338 mag.) Let me see, I think I paid $270 for my A-bolt -06 and $450 for my 338 mag in 88. 'twas goin' for elk that year and the wife thought I'd like something bigger than my 30-06 (since I was new to the west coast big game). I admit I haven't bought a big gun since. Don't need any, 'specially here in FL.
259 posted on 10/14/2002 5:26:12 PM PDT by fuente
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