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Maryland Sniper Shootings-FR Commentary
Fox, CNN, Press Conferences | October 9, 2002 | Fox, CNN, Press Conferences

Posted on 10/09/2002 3:14:53 AM PDT by Peach

Another press conference due soon. To avoid multiple vanity threads regarding any news that comes from press conferences, thought we'd keep a live commentary thread going again today.


TOPICS: Breaking News; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: District of Columbia; US: Maryland; US: Virginia
KEYWORDS: banglist; maryland; sniper; terrorism
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To: mewzilla
Hope someone asks, just to clarify, whether the card said God or Allah.

Good question. The moon is quite symbolic in tarot card reading. The freeper who drafted the crescent moon from the killing map may not have been so far off the mark. The death card - death to who? Death to men? women? children? the elderly? whites? blacks? hispanics? asians? Or simply put -- death to Americans. I wouldn't so readily dismiss the recent al qaeda threats. Who ever is doing this is a ruthless trained killer, such as one might find in a training camp in Afghanistan

151 posted on 10/09/2002 5:55:46 AM PDT by freeperfromnj
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To: aristeides
Remember my post yesterday that the sniper would leave a message..to a paper, police...well well well...BINGO!

~AV's~ Gut Feeling

Damn I wonder if Montgomery County police department pays well...?

152 posted on 10/09/2002 5:56:24 AM PDT by antivenom
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To: 1234
Sorry I wasn't clear; hadn't had first cup of tea yet and it generally takes two to get me going and even then it's iffy. After reading this morning that a tarot card was found at the school shooting, I thought of Irish Travelers, who often use tarot cards. IT's are commonly referred to as gypsies. They are typically swarthy skinned and after reading so many posts yesterday that police may be targeting Hispanic looking men driving white box cars, I thought perhaps an Irish Traveler could be mistaken by a witness as Hispanic looking. Hope that's clearer than my previous post!
153 posted on 10/09/2002 5:57:32 AM PDT by Peach
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To: antivenom
September 29th is ST. MICHAEL, ST. GABRIEL and ST. RAPHAEL day.


http://www.daughtersofstpaul.com/saintday/m9.html#BM29
154 posted on 10/09/2002 5:58:14 AM PDT by relee
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To: Prodigal Son
Very interesting...I had posted my theory about the new sony game before I heard Mike Buchanan give his exclusive report last night...As soon as I saw what he had written..'I am God'...and then read Pete's response about the Navy Seals movie sniper having the nickname of GOD, I really felt there could be a definite connection..

Now, if the Tarot thing is accurate, and if the words on the card mean anything, the next victim should be a priest...who is the 'King'...??

Also heard a brief report on last night's local news that at one point during the day yesterday, MOOSE had requested 'EXTRA' security during his press conf...hmmm...did he have knowledge of the Tarot thing, and did he wonder if HE might be the 'King'...??

155 posted on 10/09/2002 5:58:36 AM PDT by Merovingian
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To: antivenom
Yeah but was the death card reversed? Changes the meaning.

Nice maplettes.

156 posted on 10/09/2002 5:59:18 AM PDT by bvw
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To: Peach
The sniper has been reading to many Stephen Hunter books. It's time to put Bob Lee Swagger on the case.
157 posted on 10/09/2002 6:00:34 AM PDT by Consort
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To: antivenom
Every time I read 'Gate of Heaven'.. I think of those Heaven's Gate cult that committed suicide when Hale Bopp went over, thinking it was some UFO and the would ascend up to it!
158 posted on 10/09/2002 6:01:49 AM PDT by ET(end tyranny)
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To: antivenom
Awesome effort, thank you.
159 posted on 10/09/2002 6:02:14 AM PDT by Quilla
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To: Peach; IoCaster; Beenliedto
I think you are right, that this was intentionally leaked. It's a subtle plea for help by the police to the public. It means that they have zero strong leads at this point.

If that is the case, the "I am God" thing is most certainly innacurate or incomplete. I bet that it either says something quite the opposite, like "I am Satan," or something much more rational. The idea is to try to flush him out into more communication, in an effort to get his "real story" out. He may not want to be portrayed as a "nut case", or a believer in God, so he might contact the press this time. That can be helpful, remember the Unabomber.

It also plays into the usual serial killer attitude that the police are inept and can't catch him (they couldn't even get the message right), which may cause him to be less circumspect in the future.

Finally, everyone in the area is now thinking about every Tarot-obsessed weirdo they might have come in contact with recently.

Yesterday on another thread I predicted that he would begin to communicate with the police or media, not knowing he already had. Now I expect that he will step up communication to include the media next, in an effort to set his story straight.

160 posted on 10/09/2002 6:02:32 AM PDT by NCLou
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To: Peach
Meant to mention in my previous post, Irish Travelers often use Tarot cards.

Hmmm... for an Irish Traveler who makes his living on "repair" scams, the glare of national attention in the wake of the Toogood case may have been the equivalent of getting fired from a normal job, and could have same results on a borderline mental case....

161 posted on 10/09/2002 6:02:42 AM PDT by steve-b
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To: Jimer
Do Stephen Hunter books have killers who leave clues like tarot cards? I don't read him but think my husband has.
162 posted on 10/09/2002 6:03:45 AM PDT by Peach
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To: aristeides
If you read between the lines, Moose was really critical of Glenspending. He said Glenspending would not be making any more statements like that. I think somebody must have scolded the governor real good.

Glendenning's statements border on the truly irresponsible. In this litigious society, he's just inviting major lawsuits against the state of MD if his ill-considered remarks prompt another sniper attack.

The public officials involved in this (Chief Moose, Glendenning) are revealing (in my opinion) how poorly some of these local organizations are being led. Chief Moose is clearly in over his head. I'm surprised this problem hasn't been "federalized" although I know you need to leave responsibility for crime at the local level. If I lived in Montgomery or Prince George's Counties, I'd be very concerned about my local leadership.

163 posted on 10/09/2002 6:04:41 AM PDT by ReleaseTheHounds
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To: NCLou
You may be onto something and I hope the police have leaked the tarot card with something written that will tick the sniper off into "correcting" the record. It will make him easier to catch and could be a good game to play.
164 posted on 10/09/2002 6:05:33 AM PDT by Peach
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To: steve-b
Hadn't thought of the Toogood case link - possibility and now the sniper has tipped his hand using the tarot card.
165 posted on 10/09/2002 6:06:25 AM PDT by Peach
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To: Merovingian
Could King = President?
166 posted on 10/09/2002 6:07:53 AM PDT by ET(end tyranny)
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To: Peach
bump
167 posted on 10/09/2002 6:08:35 AM PDT by Robe
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To: antivenom
Forgot to tell you thanks for adding dates to the maps.
168 posted on 10/09/2002 6:08:57 AM PDT by ET(end tyranny)
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To: bvw
Yeah but was the death card reversed? Changes the meaning.

I was wondering the same thing. And how would you know if it were reversed, once you got to the scene?

169 posted on 10/09/2002 6:10:34 AM PDT by ET(end tyranny)
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To: ET(end tyranny)
How the message was written.
170 posted on 10/09/2002 6:11:25 AM PDT by bvw
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To: ET(end tyranny)
Could King = President?

Of course it could..Mike Buchanan made this connection:"ooohhh, the taxi of the cab driver that was killed had the name "President" written on it..Personally,I think that has no connection..The 'King' would have to represent a high authority figure...even higher than ole Moosey..

171 posted on 10/09/2002 6:12:35 AM PDT by Merovingian
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To: kristinn
"He's boiling over right now because he's not in control of anything right now"

Agreed, in more ways than one. The FBI is surely really in control of this investigation, even if Montgomery County cops think they are.
172 posted on 10/09/2002 6:13:13 AM PDT by FreeTheHostages
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To: Peach

I don't know if you've seen this but here are the pictures of the victims. No pattern here.

173 posted on 10/09/2002 6:13:31 AM PDT by areafiftyone
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To: Types_with_Fist
Further: this younger, social outcast-type shooter - IMO - has moved onto this game after tiring of Play Station

Far too much maturity and shooting talent for the perp to be young.

This guy has spent considerable time at the shooting range, and has detailed knowledge of marksmanship, law enforcement procedures, and anatomy. No way he's some punk twerp, or he would have screwed up long before now.

174 posted on 10/09/2002 6:14:33 AM PDT by xsrdx
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To: Peach
In the past I've heard of police leaking that murder victims had been sexually assaulted when they hadn't been, prompting "offended" perpetrators to tip their hand, like tell a neighbor that they knew that it wasn't true. I can see how that might be pretty effective.

I don't know that they have enough info on this guy to really get under his skin but I think they might be trying.
175 posted on 10/09/2002 6:15:10 AM PDT by NCLou
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To: ET(end tyranny)
Could King = President?

Or King George County?

176 posted on 10/09/2002 6:15:10 AM PDT by freeperfromnj
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To: bvw
How the message was written.

But from which direction? From the sniper's shooting spot, looking towards the school, or from LE perspective walking towards the shoot spot?

Know what I mean?

177 posted on 10/09/2002 6:16:22 AM PDT by ET(end tyranny)
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To: ET(end tyranny)
Could King = President?

Didn't the Secret Service just enter the case?

178 posted on 10/09/2002 6:16:52 AM PDT by OReilly
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To: NCLou
Maybe they should profile this perp as pig farmer to see if that ticks off the Islamakazi?
179 posted on 10/09/2002 6:17:29 AM PDT by john316
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To: ET(end tyranny)
I question the use of "policeMAN" as oppose to "policeMEN". Is the sniper directing his message to the chief or is this someone who doesn't have a great familiarity with the english language?
180 posted on 10/09/2002 6:18:25 AM PDT by aboutojump
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To: Merovingian
Prince George (county)

King George... ?
181 posted on 10/09/2002 6:18:45 AM PDT by ET(end tyranny)
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To: OReilly
Yes, I did hear a reference to ss..
182 posted on 10/09/2002 6:18:58 AM PDT by Merovingian
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To: antivenom
Nice call, I made the same call on another thread yesterday that I thought we would begin to see contact from the shooter. This morning when I heard the news, I thought I was special, but you were on the same track!
183 posted on 10/09/2002 6:19:27 AM PDT by NCLou
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To: Prodigal Son
Someone else mentioned, its easy to pick up someone else's brass to leave at the scene to throw them off. I guess a stray tarot card might also be a red herring.

I'm far enough away to enjoy speculating. Nothing better to do with my time.
184 posted on 10/09/2002 6:19:49 AM PDT by the gillman@blacklagoon.com
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To: xsrdx
Far too much maturity and shooting talent for the perp to be young.

Absolutely, this is NO kid.....

185 posted on 10/09/2002 6:20:47 AM PDT by Merovingian
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To: DonQ
I also am curious about the Tarot design. There are ALOT of them. Could be very telling.
186 posted on 10/09/2002 6:22:20 AM PDT by FeliciaCat
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To: Merovingian
Yes, I did hear a reference to ss..

I think it was just announced with a cover story of sorts in the last two days that the 'President's Secret Service has entered the case.

187 posted on 10/09/2002 6:22:35 AM PDT by OReilly
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To: areafiftyone
I'd also be interested to know whether the killer owns any role-playing shooting video games, like Hitman (which has sniper scenarios) or one of the other super-realistic hunting games. Just curious, since these types of games have been implicated in other weak-minded individual's crimes.
188 posted on 10/09/2002 6:23:09 AM PDT by lsee
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To: Catspaw
uhh, there was a shooting but no murder in fredricksburg.
189 posted on 10/09/2002 6:25:26 AM PDT by dmz
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To: ET(end tyranny)
Was the message upside down, or sideways on the card?
190 posted on 10/09/2002 6:25:49 AM PDT by bvw
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To: Peach
if Islamic terrorist, would resent perhaps reference to "I am God"

Would strongly resent that reference. In Islam, Allah is all-powerful, and thus would never take human form. For that reason Jesus Christ is relegated to the status of prophet (subordinate to Muhammad, of course). "I am God" would be outrageous blasphemy to a Muslim.

191 posted on 10/09/2002 6:26:07 AM PDT by browardchad
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To: the gillman@blacklagoon.com
I'm far enough away to enjoy speculating. Nothing better to do with my time.

Same here. I've heard before that some snipers get this "God" complex because they feel a lot of power from the whole situation. Somebody else posted on this thread that the profilers said something about that last night. I could totally understand that.

192 posted on 10/09/2002 6:26:22 AM PDT by Prodigal Son
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To: lsee
To Repeat:

See my post #94 Last night I posted my theory about the current Sony playstation interactive game with the SNIPER theme being related in this case..I'm told this is a VERY intense and addicive game..Pete then commented that apparently in the movie "Navy Seals", the nickname of the sniper was GOD... A look needs to be taken at the seals link...

193 posted on 10/09/2002 6:26:26 AM PDT by Merovingian
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To: freeperfromnj
Who ever is doing this is a ruthless trained killer

I agree that he is a trained killer, but the amount of training it would take to make the shots he's making is minimal. I'm getting tired of hearing people (even Hannity) saying how it takes "years of training" to be this "good." I tend to agree with the Navy Sniper I heard on TV yesterday saying you could just about train a monkey to do this kind of thing accurately.

One sick monkey, IMO! What we need are more people out there with concealed carry permits so they can effectively stop this guy when they see him.

Has anyone mentioned that this guy might be using a silencer as well, or has that been ruled out? I would think that would make it even easier to get closer and avoid detection.

As I understand, snipers who have 'years of training' are those that routinely make shots many times farther than this creep is making.

194 posted on 10/09/2002 6:30:03 AM PDT by Terriergal
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To: NCLou
That can be helpful, remember the Unabomber.

Didn't help at all. If his mother hadn't dimed him out, the police (at any level) never would have found him.

Hank

195 posted on 10/09/2002 6:30:34 AM PDT by Hank Kerchief
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To: Maggie Hinnom
But that still doesn't explain why the killer has a particular dislike for Michaels patrons. Perhaps he was traumatized by a particular episode of the Martha Stewart Living show?

What's all this I keep hearing about Michael's? I take it's a store in America? Were all the victims patrons? Is this the same as being a WalMart's patron? I don't mean that snidely, I don't know what they sell at Michael's. Do they sell things there that only a select crowd would buy or would the average shopper be likely to visit the store if there were one in the area? If so, I don't see the connection- I mean even I have been in a WalMart's although I don't live in the USA. I would imagine most people in the WTC that day had been in one as well but I wouldn't see this as a connection.

How does the young boy fit into that? He was shot at school wasn't he? Sounds to me like the sniper was laying up waiting for the first good shot he could get at somebody at the school and he took the first thing that looked good to him.

196 posted on 10/09/2002 6:31:05 AM PDT by Prodigal Son
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To: mewzilla
whether the card said God or Allah

Even if it did say 'God' that doesn't rule out that this could be a guy affiliated with Muslim terrorists.

'Allah' is just as generic a term for God as 'God.' But the comment about the guy in the movie being called 'God' I found interesting (haven't seen the movie yet).

197 posted on 10/09/2002 6:32:25 AM PDT by Terriergal
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To: Terriergal
I don't think the Tarot card thing definitively rules out Islamist terrorists.

Terrorists aren't stupid and they can play games, too.

Look. Just as (in my opinion) the anthrax killer is a DOMESTIC KOOK who purposely wrote those letters to Capitol Hill, the White House, the Supreme Court, with strange grammar and "Allah Ahkbar" to make it look like a foreigner did it, there is just as much an equal, reverse possibility that a savvy Islamist terrorist (who has been here for years or may even be an American) could set the stage for the planting of evidence to 'make it look like a DOMESTIC KOOK case.

I see these two cases, ANTHRAX and now MARYLAND SNIPER still as reverse of what they appear on the surface to be.

198 posted on 10/09/2002 6:33:15 AM PDT by AmericanInTokyo
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To: lsee
This random (non-pattern) shooting just sticks in my gut. It means the guy has a grudge against the police and not against any gender or race (blacks, females, prostitutes, children). I just have this feeling he was arrested before on another totally un-related charge. He might even have a beef against Chief Moose or his department. They should really check anyone that they arrested in the past who recently go out of prison who has had military background or is an avid hunter (the only reason why I say that is because this guy is not an idiot when it comes to guns - he knows exactly how to inflict the most damage psychologically and physically).
199 posted on 10/09/2002 6:33:23 AM PDT by areafiftyone
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To: bvw
Was the message upside down, or sideways on the card?

They didn't say.

200 posted on 10/09/2002 6:33:33 AM PDT by ET(end tyranny)
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